Nurburgring 24hr report

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I think all the stuff said in this thread(except for what that retarded guy said :) ) is some thing KY already had thought about it but he can't implement in the game ,Ky have been thinking of this since he was 12 years old or something as I read some(he had the concept or some thing ) and I don't think anybody in this world would do a better job the PD has done in developing a game on what now is consderied a dated consel (the PS2 has been around for a long time) and a consel that has very good limitation .

IF U CAN DO BETTER THEN GIVE IT A SHOT LETS SEE HOW YOU DO :)
 
I really dont understand what they complain about... I was sitting nex to my friend in his old porsche 944 ss cab at a speed of 280 km..That felt very fast and i have to tell again that the sence(sp)of speed is right on spot in that video. The turns he managed at insane speeds didnt looked that sharp to me at all and you know that old prototypes were very fast. If the car goes 20-30 km faster then in real life whats the problem? Its a game man. And how do you know if it couldnt handle like that in real life, i mean only those that have "testpiloted" that car know for sure. Now there are things that are a kinda bad in the game and thats the sound...Im extreamly dissapointed that they have not made better enigne sounds... the other complain i have is the lack of the most popular eruopean supercars and ofcourse the lack of more swedish cars hehe, and the eternal wait ofcourse hehe .GT4 where are ya?!!
 
First of all, thanks to Gil Abobeleira nad SaintKamus for making some very strong statements towards the oppinon that I also had in mind when started arguning about this particular drive.

Had read all the posts (agree this is one of the best threads so far, nice arguments pointed from very respective members of GTP), but I'll be so free to keep my mind unchanged.

This drive is not what I'd expect form physics in GT4. Gil's first explanation of "what would happen" is something that I agree with 100%. And no matter of all, I just hope that one day GT series will become even more slower and more "F355 oriented".

I take my hat off for anyone who can drive like that - have a various NUrb demos for more then half-year now, and I like to think that I know the Hell very well. And I also know that in some time I'll be able to make that gold, no matter of times I'm doing right now (about 6:15 after 4-5 tries), it's matter of practice.

But driving 100% full-throttle in the first section of the track will never make me think "Oh my God, this is faboluos!". It will just make me think "Oh, my God, this could be such a great test...".
 
Have enjoyed this thread more than any I can think of recently; good healthy debate.

Personally I think that given the limits of the hardware PD have managed a good balance. If you want an earier time then keep the aids on and go for the 'game' orientated tyres, you want a more realistic approach then turn of all the aids and go for the hardest rubber you can (or sim tyres).

As I covered in my last few posts, I think if these factors are taken into account (which I believe would be worth about 16 - 20 seconds per lap at the 'ring) then we are looking at times that are not far removed from reality. Lets be honest given the age of the PS2, to get this is bloody good, to expect much more is just plain daft.

Keep it up everyone (apart from Lamp who is clearly a bit 'touched').

Scaff
 
I think over the couple of releases GT5 ,or might I say GT6....ect ,we hope that the physicis will get better as it always has improved from on version of the series to teh other ,but I think the PS2 has some limitation where programing these effect can be implmented espicially with so many car and track and detail in the game already ,I think maybe Ky comprimised a bit of the physics for the 650+ cars and there detail ,and the 50+tracks which in my opinion is the right chioce I would prefer more cars and track more than the physics ,because GT series has on of the best physicis engine on PS2 already so I think it was time to improve other things.
 
GT4 gives car racing fans an uncredible possibility to drive many different types of cars on several famous and challenging tracks. Therefore no racing fan who is sim-minded will want to skip this game.

However, for sales reasons, PD directs the game too much towards another kind of public. This public gets a kick of seeing their cars spitting flames before every corner, or when having a Formula 1 pit crew change the tyres of their street car.

Not realistic, not worth the title "real driving simulator", but I think that is the prize that has to be paid to develop such a game.
 
omg 24 hours?!! i thought 2 hours was bad enough, though back when i played gt3 it really put me off doing endurance races when i paused the rome 2hr nearly finished (get some food or something) and then came back and accidently quit :ouch: strangely i seemed to do endurance races better when half awake, pretty much every night i would get up at 2 in the morning and do an endurance then go back to bed about 2 hours later, then get up for school at 7, i was obsessed i tell ya :crazy: tho for the 24h races im gonna do as much hours, cos my parents get annoyed when i play for an hour it seems so id do the most when the house is empty then pause it and come back later cos i can see myself getting bored with the 24h races
 
Yes, Gran Turismo claims to be a simulator but it can only be so much of simulator without becoming inaccessible. What I mean by this is that the games engine is limited by hardware and therefore many factors cannot be accounted for.

You can’t make the game a full out simulator because then it would only be able to be driven with the best experience in mind from a DFP wheel not the DS2. Most people who will get this game will only have a DS2 and not invest in a wheel. If the game wasn’t dumbed down to cater for input from the DS2, for many new inexperienced drivers to the GT series it would become unplayable due to the need for more responsive and accurate inputs.

You must remember Gran Turismo is a game, games are meant to be fun but what many of us would like is a game that would be too difficult to play for the main market. Without a game that could be played from practice and a DS2 it wouldn’t sell very well amongst the casual gamer and turn into a major flop which isn’t what GT will do.

The game can only be so accurate, the inaccuracies are because it's a game, a game that needs to be playable so that Joe Bloggs can enjoy what GT is all about.
 
ALPHA
Yes, Gran Turismo claims to be a simulator but it can only be so much of simulator without becoming inaccessible. What I mean by this is that the games engine is limited by hardware and therefore many factors cannot be accounted for.

You can’t make the game a full out simulator because then it would only be able to be driven with the best experience in mind from a DFP wheel not the DS2. Most people who will get this game will only have a DS2 and not invest in a wheel. If the game wasn’t dumbed down to cater for input from the DS2, for many new inexperienced drivers to the GT series it would become unplayable due to the need for more responsive and accurate inputs.

You must remember Gran Turismo is a game, games are meant to be fun but what many of us would like is a game that would be too difficult to play for the main market. Without a game that could be played from practice and a DS2 it wouldn’t sell very well amongst the casual gamer and turn into a major flop which isn’t what GT will do.

The game can only be so accurate, the inaccuracies are because it's a game, a game that needs to be playable so that Joe Bloggs can enjoy what GT is all about.
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Could not agree more.

Well said Alpha
 
TigJackson
I've driven some really good laps on the Nurburgring in PGR2.
Whoever drove that lap knows the GT4 'ring much better than
I know the PGR2 version of same. That is one amazing drive! :cheers:
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I'm sorry Tig but the Nurburgring Nordschleife on PGR2 can only credit itself with the name alone as it's not even close to being a realistic representation of the track. I think the only part they got right was the long straight at the end of the lap, oh wait that's got a gradient too they also missed :lol: I mean the whole track is as flat as a carpark and none of the corners are accurate in terms of gradient or camber.

I bought PGR2 primarily for that track but was really dissapointed. Here's to GT4 :cool:

:edit: Thanks for rehosting the Sauber vid Mister E :) 370Kmh :o
 
This thread definitely deserves a stamp - Excellent discussion and views guys 👍

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Gil Abobeleira
Well guys, as a sportscar (and ring) anorak, sorry but doing a sub 5.m30 at the ring with a C9 is impossible. I'll tell you why:

- at the speed he's travelling at the flugplatz, the C9 would fly (like the clr ar LM'99) as it would catch air under it (flat bottom + tunnels);
- 300km/h at the double righthander after flugplatz? No way (it's just not realistic!!! You cannot go against the law of physics) going that fast at a medium (it's not a fast corner, just a medium corner!!!!);
- again, at that speed, he would just "fly" at schwedenkreuz because of the bump (again, air getting below the car);
- etecetera (i could go on with this the all lap).

This just shows that the physics are just not realistic, abs and tcs on or off (if you get a full ground effects car with air under it, no abs or traction control or whatever will save you!!!!!). It's a pitty having such a beatiful track ruined by so poor physics (realistic wise)... :(
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I think that the reason he can go this fast without flipping the car is because of the fact that just like in previous GT's, the game is programmed not to let you flip the car. Therefore they left air pressure under the car (physics wise) out of the game, or atleast made it very minimal. In case noone noticed, you can't completely flip a car, or get it any distance off the ground outside of jumps such as in rally.. The car doesnt even rotate in any direction whilst in the air. Or maybe it does, but a very slim degree.

Maybe Kaz needs to rework this part of the game.. In order to achieve complete realism to any degree, you need to be able to atleast roll the car. Perhaps the licensing of the different manufacturers cars states that the cars cannot flip so there isn't any feeling of any sort of damage... I don't know, but other than that, the game seems very spot-on. Minus the fact that theres a few imperfections with the american muscle cars, and a couple of the trucks (Lightning for example).

The fact that the game has these few unrealistic things about them should not shy anyone away from the game. Or drive them to "burn" their disks. If you really go out there and burn your video games because the aren't perfect, well then, you might as well just burn your house down, because its bound to have a few imperfections. Hell, every human being has some sort of imperfection, so what's keeping you from harming yourself if you despise imperfections so much? I'm not trying to blatantly tell anyone to do any of these things, but the mere fact that you could waste your money in such a way is just a way of showing everyone that you're completely absurd.

If you don't like the game, don't buy it. But don't complain about it either. As a matter of fact, why even VISIT the gt4 forum if you don't even plan to buy the game, or even not like it? If all you want to do is smash gt4 and kazunori's work, then stay the hell out of here. Plenty of people in this forum are looking for good information when it comes to gran turismo 4, and not looking for someone say that they completely hate the game and have burnt all the previous games in the series. If you really didn't burn your game, then good, atleast you didnt waste your money, but don't sit here and bother everyone else in the community with your jibberish and bad mouthing of what is possibly the greatest racing game ever created, whether you think it is or isnt.

I can't stress enough how much people come to this forum and bad mouth the game when there's no point to even be here. You wan't to gripe about something? Do it somewhere else. Maybe somewhere where noone can hear you but yourself. Then maybe you can realise how completely ignorant you sound.

All in all, don't visit if you don't like..

EDIT: Most of this post was pointed towards Lamp, whether he's sarcastic or not. Don't post bull****.
 
Lamp
OMG LOLOLOL U CAN CORNER AT 300KMH ROFL SO UNREALISTIC LOL I CANT PLAY THIS IM TOO USED TO GPL OR FIA GT LOL THIS SUCKS, too bad KY ruined GT series, he better call it "arcade drive of ur life" next time lol cuz this is too unrealistic. NFSU allover again. I canceled my order from play-asia and destroyed all my other GT games. Too bad, arcades suck.

bbq time
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OMFG LOLOLOL U MUST HATE GT 2 BURN ALL DA GAMEZ WHY DID U BURN DEM GT IS KOOL OMGFLOLROFLOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111zzzzzzzz

Um, err... *cough*

Polyphony Digital do everything in their power to ensure the utmost realism out of the GT series. Bringing damage into the game, and air pressure, and more of the same, with 600 cars in the game, would be almost impossible.

I suggest you engage your brain before you put your mouth to the metal. :rolleyes:
 
I think Lamp was somking something when he posted that ;)


edit: fast typing errors:lol:
 
If you don't like the game, don't buy it. But don't complain about it either. As a matter of fact, why even VISIT the gt4 forum if you don't even plan to buy the game, or even not like it? If all you want to do is smash gt4 and kazunori's work, then stay the hell out of here. Plenty of people in this forum are looking for good information when it comes to gran turismo 4, and not looking for someone say that they completely hate the game and have burnt all the previous games in the series. If you really didn't burn your game, then good, atleast you didnt waste your money, but don't sit here and bother everyone else in the community with your jibberish and bad mouthing of what is possibly the greatest racing game ever created, whether you think it is or isnt.
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This is a discussion forum. Everyone that doesn't like a part of the game has the right to express this on the forum. I, for instance, would be very pissed if people would only "advertise" the the game here on the forum. So please let people critizise, weather you agree or not.
 
The gold requirement for the S-15 license test at Le Mans in an Audi R8 is 3:25.000. Now, how accurate is that? If it's the chicaned version, then it's a bit fast (pole in 2004 was 3:33). If it's the unchicaned version, then that's pretty damn accurate I think (pole in the Sauber C9 was 3:15).

So, is the S-15 test at Le Mans unchicaned, or chicaned?
 
CobraGT
who in their right mind would push the C9 to its limits on a track such as nurb...
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Give me the same car, clear the track for about an hour & I'll show you! LOL!
(WOW! This is my only my 2nd post in what has to be the most talked about topic on GT4 since it was learned that the game itself was going to be delayed yet again! :D)

CobraGT
If the simulator at the DMV features damage models and aerodynamic involved crashes, be sure to tell me but until then, dont even try and downgrade gt4's tagline.
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Damn! I never knew DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) had any driving simulators! LOL!

@Live4Speed > post #277, Page 14...I totally agree with you!

@Mister E > Regarding post #279 > Page 14....about the placement of the DFP's buttons....I can only say that they are much better then on the previous Logitech Wheel, the Driving Force! God I hated having the buttons on the wheel itself!

@Sven > Post #282 > Page 15....I totally agree with you as well! The PS2 can only handle so much and I'm not sure about the rest of you folks but I'm going to get more enjoyment out of actually racing/driving the Nurburgring, Circuit de La Sarthe (Spelling? Sorry) & the 2 or 3 different versions of Fuji then sit here & complain about a particular games 'realism'...when the game itself is damn near as good as it is going to get with the current hardware (PS2)

@Ubiquitous > Post #291 > Page 15..I've got to repeat what Omnis said in the very next post....BRAVO!

@Alpha > Post #311> Page 16 (This one) Two thumbs up for a very well thought out response!

@PjotrStroganov: While I agree with your comments, I think the main problem is that most of the other members here are just to stupid to realize the following facts when making negative remarks about this particular game & also this particular topic:

1. It's a GAME! What more do you want it to do...cook you breakfast? LOL!

2. The PS2's almost as outdated as my old Atari 6400. (Kidding, but you get my point)

3. I'd say 90% of the members who post on this forum LOVE the game & not the other way around, therefore common sense should tell you that if you're going to post a negative comment, while it's all right to express your own opinions, just don't forget that you are more then likely to get flammed for it...because that itself is human nature.

I'd love to offer my own opinions on this topic but sadly, what I've got to say has already been mentioned more then a few times!

My hat goes off to KY (OT but everytime I hear his initials (KY) I think of the a specific type of ummm...lubricant if you know where I'm going with this! LOL) and what he & PD have done on this incarnation of GT!
Thanks guys! Damn good job! Can't wait to see how you top yourselfs with the next version of GT in about.....oh...2-3 years! :)

Later-
 
SimRaceDriver
My hat goes off to KY (OT but everytime I hear his initials (KY) I think of the a specific type of ummm...lubricant :-) and what he & PD have done on this incarnation of GT! Thanks guys! Damn good job! Can't wait to see how you top yourselfs with the next version in...oh...2-3 years from now.
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+ Delay of course ;)
 
ALPHA
You can’t make the game a full out simulator because then it would only be able to be driven with the best experience in mind from a DFP wheel not the DS2. Most people who will get this game will only have a DS2 and not invest in a wheel. If the game wasn’t dumbed down to cater for input from the DS2, for many new inexperienced drivers to the GT series it would become unplayable due to the need for more responsive and accurate inputs.
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This is true, and don't forget that a majority of PD's market is probably little kids or early teens who want a game that looks good and fun. If PD made GT4 too realistic, it'd be way too hard for the younger age groups to pick it up and play.
 
My post was entirely sarcastic, SimRaceDriver.

I was pointing out that the buttons on the DFP are unrealistic and aren't on real cars so they shouldn't be in the game.

Even my comment about the clutch was sarcastic. While calculating all of the "unrealistic" physics, I doubt the Emotion Engine could handle a clutch algorithm.

I wish the DFP had a brake pedal that sensed pressure, not angle. That's pretty much my only complaint, other than the wheel itself being too small.
 
Acid X
If you don't like the game, don't buy it. But don't complain about it either.
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If PD does not use forums as this as free customer feedback, they do bad marketing.

And if we all just praise the game, Kaz will think we love every aspect of it and never change what we don't like.

So let's not be afraid to say what we think :)
 
There may be errors here and there... but I love this game. Simulation of driving in Nurburgring is good enough for me!!!! (Too bad they don't have the Nardo track to test out the VW W12)
 
Wow, the physics in this Nurburgring video look amazingly bad. I don't know if those driving aids are supposed to be realistic like real life traction control etc. if so, the guy should have spinned and crashed very often.
 
Pak
Wow, the physics in this Nurburgring video look amazingly bad. I don't know if those driving aids are supposed to be realistic like real life traction control etc. if so, the guy should have spinned and crashed very often.
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Driving aids in GT have always been about helping the amateur/casual gamer to control the car, the names and ideas taken from real cars but implemented in a way to make the game easier.

Add to that the car is probably running Arcade style super soft tyres for unrealistic levels of grip, Active stabilty management and tcs, its not being realistic at all.

The game is only a realistic interpretation of real world, when none of the above apply, all other times it is an arcade representation.
 

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