Obsession of some "gamers" with visual damage in racing games

[avens]

Oh and the argument "This thing should be added to the game because its realistic" is actually a POOR and kinda DUMB argument in my opinion, heres why.

Obviously some aspects shouldn't be in, for example changing oil, but damage truly is something everyone demands to have in racing games of this caliber and, most importantly, makes realistic racing games much, much better.

 

[CTznOfTime]

Before I go on and defend OP's point of view, which i want to say that i share the same feeling:

First and Foremost i understand most of everyone's concerns on this thread... i have tried to read all the posts, but i might have skip some of the bla bla bla bla bla...

In trying to summarize all the different point of view, here is what i came up with:

Category 1: Hyper Total Realism
You crash too hard and you live forever with God.

Category 2: Reality
You crash too hard, you die.

Category 3: Simulations
You crash too hard, you limp out of the race and lose your ego.... and money... and time.
(i-Racing....

Category 4: Games that tries to incorporate Realism
You crash too hard, and you continue on with your task at having fun.
(F1, Grid, NFS, GT, FM, Burnout Paradise, ....)

Category 5: Mario Kart
You crash too hard, and you send a banana to your opponents, and you win.


People, keep in mind you are just playing a fake fictive game that just looks real... Who are you trying to fool but yourself... We are all like the little girl playing Barbie, how much more real do you want it to be ?

Yes, some day you will grow up to find your prince charming... yes some day you will grow up to be a professional pilote/driver... until then, you are just practicing at doing something you really want to do, but try not to comb your hair the wrong way or hit that barrier too hard, otherwise you'd have to go see the cosmetic surgeon, or help pay your garage owner his health insurance.

GT is an embellishment of and a focus on "speed and time", your mental focus should be on those things with the most ideal condition as possible... The features and lack of thereof in GT are there to serve that purpose, to help you save times in doing the perfect lap, With a dumb down reality, those games takes some of the real life worries away and keep that focus intact.

I am not sure if what i wrote even make sense, there is too much sarcasm.

Conclusion: there should be a poll made with the above category, and let our GTP members vote away.

PS: who can tell which car is on the left in NixxonN Shell photo ?!?????
Thanks,

 

[CSLACR]

I always play with a group of clean drivers.
If someone plays dirty and drives like an @sshole, we immediately kick him out of the room.
So you say its not enough that we sometimes those idiots T-bone us, we also should get our cars destroyed by them and our races ruined? No thanks.

You're aware that a single group of clean drivers doesn't really affect the purpose of damage though?

So you suggest me to do pit stops every single time I drive a car? No thanks

He's letting you know that you do refill your cars with fuel already. (if you have pit stops)


If the discussion is "I use these settings, so **** everyone else", everything in the game can be viewed as trivial.
If the discussion is "Does a good simulation need at least semi-realistic damage", I'd argue yes.

 

[Aqua F1]

Kaz wants Gran Turismo to be a driving simulator. Damage can occur while driving, no? Or are we on some universe where damage does not exist? For a title that is trying to claim its a simulator, to not have actual damage is laughable.

 

[Cosbuster]

Kaz wants Gran Turismo to be a driving simulator. Damage can occur while driving, no? Or are we on some universe where damage does not exist? For a title that is trying to claim its a simulator, to not have actual damage is laughable.

When it's convenient, GT is a simulator. When it's not, it's just a game and we aren't allowed to expect standard stuff simulators have been doing for years. Same old same old.

 

[NixxxoN]

Kaz wants Gran Turismo to be a driving simulator. Damage can occur while driving, no? Or are we on some universe where damage does not exist? For a title that is trying to claim its a simulator, to not have actual damage is laughable.

GT has already damage, but here we are talking about proper wreckage, and Kaz isn't really bothered about it.

 

[Zuku]

Thank you for wonderful addition to this thread, which has nothing to do with the topic.

I believe that GT7 should have the option of full damage in career. It would add something extra to the a-spec career, and with an improved AI we might get something closer to a proper racing sim.

Thank you for not being able to see exactly who I quoted he asked a question I answered. Simple as that.

 

[Zuku]

GT has already damage, but here we are talking about proper wreckage, and Kaz isn't really bothered about it.

That's the problem for Kaz right now if older games, or even the newest games can get realistic damage(Well close too) while making it fun for the end user, or at least better than GT6 that should be a problem, but we'll give them 1200 cars and they'll be happy.

I truly believe that should be a problem considering that of the 1200 cars only 40-50% are truly cared about in any way.

 

[1241Penguin]

GT has already damage, but here we are talking about proper wreckage, and Kaz isn't really bothered about it.

Wait. There's a difference?

 

[NixxxoN]

Wait. There's a difference?

Yes... I mean the typical annyoing comment of the likes... "in GT6, you can smash a car into a wall at 200 mph and the car still works well" .... who cares

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Obviously some aspects shouldn't be in, for example changing oil, but damage truly is something everyone demands to have in racing games of this caliber and, most importantly, makes realistic racing games much, much better.

I wish they would add changing oil as a lobby option. You can buy parts and install them but have to exit to change the oil. Would be better if you could do it in the lobby before a race.

 

[sporkface69]

Ive lost all faith in humanity after reading this thread. Damage happens irl, so it ahould happen in this "sim". If you mess up and end your race, tough luck.

 

[Imari]

In trying to summarize all the different point of view, here is what i came up with:

Category 1: Hyper Total Realism
You crash too hard and you live forever with God.

Category 2: Reality
You crash too hard, you die.

Category 3: Simulations
You crash too hard, you limp out of the race and lose your ego.... and money... and time.
(i-Racing....

Category 4: Games that tries to incorporate Realism
You crash too hard, and you continue on with your task at having fun.
(F1, Grid, NFS, GT, FM, Burnout Paradise, ....)

Category 5: Mario Kart
You crash too hard, and you send a banana to your opponents, and you win.

Shouldn't GT6 be in Category 5? You crash too hard, and the AI all stop for a cup of tea and you win.

 

[Zuku]

Ive lost all faith in humanity after reading this thread. Damage happens irl, so it ahould happen in this "sim". If you mess up and end your race, tough luck.

Look man it's as simple as this when you're touting "Simulation" as the key part of your game well guess what you need to I don't know SIMULATE it otherwise I guess it finally needs to be called it's original name in the first place.

Gran Turismo: The Real Driving Arcade

 

[Aftrbrnr]

I think few games have gotten proper damage models right, if the crash modeling doesn't use pre-rendered models and textures things will always look a little off. The melted plastic look of GT5 is a good example of this, and I don't think I have seen any "dynamic" crash model where parts don't end up clipping through other parts of the vehicle.

I think a lot of developers haven't gotten how certain materials react right correctly yet, we've all seen metal that bends in a curvy manner in video games when it should appear more angular, while seeing plastic parts that should just crack bend just looks funny. It might be a pre-rendered damage model, but the last two NFS games at least got the plastic bumpers cracking/pieces flaking off right.

I do wonder how far developers would go for damage, almost no game models crumple zones or airbags (the latter for practical game play reasons probably). I don't really buy into the "manufacturers don't want to see too much damage" argument, I recall this was made all the way back until NFS: High Stakes came out, which really changed people's perceptions as I think it was THE first video game with licensed cars to show visual exterior damage. While the argument makes sense, I have yet to see an actual car manufacturer come out PR wise and said this about representations of their vehicles in video games.

But back on the topic of how far damage would go, most video games will allow you to repair vehicle damage no matter how bad, I don't think there are many games where you can total off a car to the point it is lost and cannot be redeemed. On that note, few games implement the effects of fire on vehicle damage in the pure driving/racing genre (i.e. not GTA), I recall in NFS III and IV on PC the cars could catch fire sometimes if you rolled them but it was all a visual effect. So with that in mind, would anyone be up for a "hard core" mode where vehicle losses through crashes were a possibility? (And no, I think driver death might be a little too realistic for video games).

 

[Sier_Pinski]

I'm not going to read the rest of this thread in order to convince me of how much I agree with the OP's post. I gotta say, there are some people here who crave too much action in a mature-themed driving simulator. They and their complaints probably come from some common mindset integrated into them from more action-packed arcade style games they've played.

I doubt we'll be able to see this level of meaty, senseless carnage in any future GT; not because it isn't possible, but because it just doesn't fit into what GT is really about.

 

[phil_75]

When physics, sounds, AI, standard cars & tracks, missing content and bugs/glitches have been sorted then you can talk about adding damage!

 

[Imari]

...but because it just doesn't fit into what GT is really about.

I see a lot of people using this type of expression, and I suspect they're not all using it to mean the same thing.

What is GT about for you, then?

 

[sporkface69]

Look man it's as simple as this when you're touting "Simulation" as the key part of your game well guess what you need to I don't know SIMULATE it otherwise I guess it finally needs to be called it's original name in the first place.

Gran Turismo: The Real Driving Arcade

Umm... thanks for agreeing with me in such a hostile manner?

 

[machschnel]

I gotta say, there are some people here who crave too much action in a mature-themed driving simulator.

There is no such thing as a "mature-themed driving simulator" - it either simulates or it doesn't. Out of interest, what aspects of Gran Turismo do you find to be "mature"?

They and their complaints probably come from some common mindset integrated into them from more action-packed arcade style games they've played.

I agree it is a common mindset and with good reason too - damage is part of the reality of driving. Neglecting to simulate it is actually something more fitting of an action-packed arcade style game.

 

[Bo]

Thank you for not being able to see exactly who I quoted he asked a question I answered. Simple as that.

To me it just looked like you answered and then went off about manufacturer bias and tracks that you hate. But in regards to only caring about 50% of cars (which is still completely off topic), PD have done what they can in terms of making cars premium. It's their physical limit as a company.

 

[mr_serious]

In a racing game ie a game that attempts to simulate racing to some extent, damage is essential.

Sadly apart from having cars & circuits, GT has nothing at all to do with racing. It is just a fairly bad arcade driving challenge, car collecting game.

I wish it was a racing game, but PD decided to redefine racing (read the back of the box) to be something not involving competition, or constraints, or skill (as my sig suggests).

 

[sgllocal]

Kaz wants Gran Turismo to be a driving simulator. Damage can occur while driving, no? Or are we on some universe where damage does not exist? For a title that is trying to claim its a simulator, to not have actual damage is laughable.

+1 this, crashes/prangs/damages happens every day to cars, so why not add to game? other games have crash damage and so on yet gt does not. kinda stupid if you ask me

 

[TheLuigi755]

It's not simply about easy, it's also about realism. Sure anyone can make some arbitrary rule for crashes but that's no fun because it's arbitrary. So we do need a coded damage system.

First , I'd like to have realistic damage (not just visual crap) so I get whole "crashing/damage" stand , some people want to have , but then really think of what you wish for?
Ask yourself are you willing to finish 2 laps round on Nordshleife ,if your cars get trashed after 1st minute in 5th turn by AI ? You'll endup driving next 10-20 minutes way back the rest of the grid with 50mph trashed car while AI will do regular 150? Are you prepared to do that or will you press "RESTART" ?

You can't restart life. Well, at least in the drunk driving ad...

 

[stb155]

I don't care if i can see damage on the cars or not.
(As it is now is good enough for me, making a real looking damage model for so many cars would be a huge waste of time while so many other big issues remain)


But that i can not damage my car in career is a big gameplay issue especially in the endurance races.
The whole point of this races IRL is the pressure to know you can not afford to crash if you want to win but you have to drive at 100% all the time to beat the opponents.
This is the core feature of endurance racing (or even ALL racing).

In GT you get no damage no matter how hard you crash and the AI always lets you catch up (almost) no matter how slow you drive.

Makes "racing" in GT6 pointless.

 

[NixxxoN]

Sadly apart from having cars & circuits, GT has nothing at all to do with racing. It is just a fairly bad arcade driving challenge, car collecting game.

WTF, how people can be so extreme/over the top with the comments?
GT6 a fairly bad arcade? Seriously?

 

[mr_serious]

WTF, how people can be so extreme/over the top with the comments?
GT6 a fairly bad arcade? Seriously?

Well it hasn't got anything like racing in it. Driving from the back of a daisy chain of cars in every event is not racing. it is contrived overtaking challenge & not a very good one either since most of the field has to be easy to overtake to give you a chance to get to the front in two or three laps.

What kind of real life race can you name that is like this?
What kind of real life race doesn't have damage?
In what kind of real life race do the other competitors slow down & wait if you spin out?

GT is an arcade game, nothing more.

 

[GranTurismoer]

Personally I'd much rather have decent mechanical damage simulation rather then a fantastic visual interpretation. Something that GT7 must have in my opinion, PD could simply have an option to turn on or off mechanical damage which would keep everyone happy.

 

[NixxxoN]

Well it hasn't got anything like racing in it. Driving from the back of a daisy chain of cars in every event is not racing. it is contrived overtaking challenge & not a very good one either since most of the field has to be easy to overtake to give you a chance to get to the front in two or three laps.

What kind of real life race can you name that is like this?
What kind of real life race doesn't have damage?
In what kind of real life race do the other competitors slow down & wait if you spin out?

GT is an arcade game, nothing more.

...
The game having a poor/non competitive AI has nothing to do with it being an arcade or not.
GT6 is not an arcade game.
Try online to race against proper competition.

 

[mr_serious]

...
The game having a poor/non competitive AI has nothing to do with it being an arcade or not.
GT6 is not an arcade game.
Try online to race against proper competition.

What is GT if it is not an arcade game?
Define an arcade game & whatever alternative category you believe GT to live in?