Open Differential Drifting

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yeah, that's what I know too, even real car with a worn out LSD can't drift very well, just like Dori Dori said, it will kill the drift.

 

[driftmonkey1971]

I don't think that, but i would appreciate it if people took it a tad more seriously.

For example, those diff settings are horrible. Why do you think drifting basics don't apply to you? You're too good for them?

Yes they seem horrible to you as you never tried playing with your diff... You use acc 60 On every car!! to me thats like Wheel spin heaven.

And Yes i am to good for basics... Stands up and beats his chest :-)

 

[lldantell]

This is something I don't get on here and in real life.

People say use 60/60/60 on the lsd because its better but I hate how it makes my car drift. To stiff, 5/5/5

60/60/60 is drag racing LSD.5/5/5 gonna make your car understeer.high acceleration sensitivity and initial torque gonna make the car loose and a lower braking sensitivity gonna make your car transition better.

 

[JrDarknes]

I actually drift, and I prefer a locked differential over an open any day of the week. I am more consistent because I know the rear wheels are always going to be locked. I have drifted cars with open differentials and very worn out lsds that act pretty much just like an open differential. Transitions feel horrible and I get less angle and control.
With an open if you have full power applied and the differential is spinning both wheels, then all of a sudden it puts all or most power to the inside wheel you lose angle and control. This could mean if your drifting a right hand corner when this happens (steering wheel to the left) and your rear decide it wants to put power to the inside then your going to get unexpected grip. If there's a wall or another car next to you then you WILL go into it.
No offense but you have a bunch of crazy logic going on. What does it matter if your corner speed is better? On track you add positive toe to the rear and it will give you better speed because the tires are wanting to grip and go forward. You don't reduce your differentials locking % just so your tires will lock/unlock and give you speed from one wheel not spinning faster than you are traveling.
You steer the car with the rear tires aka the throttle. When I drift I try to keep the steering wheel as close to full lock as I can and this gives me the most angle and speed available. But that technique is not something just anyone can do.
JR this was not all directed at you just so you know.

Yea the 5/5/5 is risky but I love it to death. I don't think I can stop using it.

I also see what your saying about the locked differential. One time I came out of a corner and immediately got some grip. Had to pull handbrake and brake because it was to hard to correct my steering. Now I know what to but for this car and not be so confused >_<. I just need to learn how to adjust coilovers.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Can you drift old muscle with 0/0/0 stock LSD value ? I know that they will often spin one side of the wheel due to open diff, leaving single tire black mark when provoked with pedal to the floor

Yes if you know how to tame it it is a amazing feel though. I am working on a 1969 z28 and it will either run its stock differential (0/0/0) or my 5/5/5

You can't go below 5 5 5 if im correct. I always use 5 60 60, no matter the car, no matter the power

Stock classic muscle cars LSD such as the 1969 Z28 you had seen me in the other day. And another would be the 1970 Chevelle ect.

I mean for American muscle from the 60's to 70's or any other RWD cars from the same era, some of them have 0/0/0 LSD value - open diff ( stock ). can they be drifted well with no LSD upgrade ? If what the OP says true, then someone would be able to drift them with no LSD upgrade, right ?

Yep.

60/60/60 is drag racing LSD.5/5/5 gonna make your car understeer.high acceleration sensitivity and initial torque gonna make the car loose and a lower braking sensitivity gonna make your car transition better.

Man i am the under steer king. Hahahaha. My cars are tuned for drastic under steer and they are smooth. I love under steer.

But like you said about the higher LSD it can make your transitions quicker but also can make them snappy.

On my tuning method (i call it the part swap method) the way the LSD is evened out through the other drive-train parts. Say for example on my 1966 Shelby Cobra i used. The tune on the drive-train was.

Standard clutch- reason it shifts slower with the aftermarket clutch plates.

LSD- 5/5/5

Semi racing flywheel- makes a braking effect like the LSD does.

Standard drive shaft- reason the carbon acted too touchy.

 

[GhostZ]

But the op isn't true because if it was then people would already be doing it wouldn't they. Common sense please.

@McGloney, D-Max, PS3dan101, Kievit, Ridox2JZGTE,

If It wasn't made clear enough, I am a very capable at drifting and know considerably about the sport. To try and clear up any confusion:

The purpose of this thread is to try and explain an observation I made over the last few weeks of drifting on GT5 and see if it disproves, counters, or supports misconceptions, preconceptions, and poor conceptions about drifting. The purpose of the thread is not to bring in your own misconceptions and ignore a very real phenomenon that this thread is discussing. I'm not asking you to argue or not post at all, but just please don't be ignorant. I wouldn't be asking this of you if your posts were not cluttering up the majority of the thread. I know you're not trying to insult me, but I feel a little put off by your posts.




The variation between settings 5/5/5 and 60/60/60 doesn't seem to matter in explaining why the Open differential is advantageous. I observed it being extremely advantageous compared to a limited slip (and have for a long time) but I want to see if anyone can help explain why. It is possible to do some testing of different differential settings to find which underlying advantages I have found come from a lower-setting LSD, or if they are exclusive to an open differential.

Orphanthirty7 seems to get the picture and has observed the same thing as I did. What interests me most is that he's talking about a Camaro, a relatively large and heavier car compared to the 240ZG, with considerably more power (though the 240ZG may have more torque at the wheels depending on transmission settings). Can you figure out the inside rear wheel lift forces as a percentage of total weight for that car? I wonder if it is similar to the 240ZG or close enough that the difference in overall weight doesn't change the advantage you get from the open differential.

 

[BenBurroughs]

Holy crap, not just one post in addition to his original but two!!!

Edit: Anyway, I always lock my diff upon initial tuning and try not to deviate from that setting. Understeer while "gripping" is usually one of the hallmarks of a good drift setup for me, and as I don't feel the need to grip more in order to beat a lap time, it works fine for me.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Orphanthirty7 seems to get the picture and has observed the same thing as I did. What interests me most is that he's talking about a Camaro, a relatively large and heavier car compared to the 240ZG, with considerably more power (though the 240ZG may have more torque at the wheels depending on transmission settings). Can you figure out the inside rear wheel lift forces as a percentage of total weight for that car? I wonder if it is similar to the 240ZG or close enough that the difference in overall weight doesn't change the advantage you get from the open differential.

You might laugh did I forget to mention I am currently drifting a 490hp 300zx right now? It is my current drift car. And i am running my part swap method with the 5/5/5. I have no problems.

Standard clutch- reason once again it shifts a little better with it.

Standard flywheel- reason the 5/5/5 had a opposite effect as the cobra did.

Carbon drive shaft- reason it made the RPMs climb a little smoother on random places (feathering, reverse entries or 90 degree entries ect.)

Reason i list all of the drive train parts is if you don't know this yet but all of the drive-train parts do greatly affect your car. Just have to find out how.

It just seems to me it is a smooth lock up with that setting. I have actually seen my 300zx if i drop a tire or go over the rumble strip ok. When that happens once in a while only one tire will be burning when it gets back on the road. Not a drastic as the say comaro's stock 0/0/0 but pretty much the same principle.

 

[mcgloney]

@McGloney, D-Max, PS3dan101, Kievit, Ridox2JZGTE,

If It wasn't made clear enough, I am a very capable at drifting and know considerably about the sport. To try and clear up any confusion:

The purpose of this thread is to try and explain an observation I made over the last few weeks of drifting on GT5 and see if it disproves, counters, or supports misconceptions, preconceptions, and poor conceptions about drifting. The purpose of the thread is not to bring in your own misconceptions and ignore a very real phenomenon that this thread is discussing. I'm not asking you to argue or not post at all, but just please don't be ignorant. I wouldn't be asking this of you if your posts were not cluttering up the majority of the thread. I know you're not trying to insult me, but I feel a little put off by your posts.




The variation between settings 5/5/5 and 60/60/60 doesn't seem to matter in explaining why the Open differential is advantageous. I observed it being extremely advantageous compared to a limited slip (and have for a long time) but I want to see if anyone can help explain why. It is possible to do some testing of different differential settings to find which underlying advantages I have found come from a lower-setting LSD, or if they are exclusive to an open differential.

Orphanthirty7 seems to get the picture and has observed the same thing as I did. What interests me most is that he's talking about a Camaro, a relatively large and heavier car compared to the 240ZG, with considerably more power (though the 240ZG may have more torque at the wheels depending on transmission settings). Can you figure out the inside rear wheel lift forces as a percentage of total weight for that car? I wonder if it is similar to the 240ZG or close enough that the difference in overall weight doesn't change the advantage you get from the open differential.

What?! I've gave proper facts about welded and LSD's that actually work and you say im being ignorant? Sorry but i've proved this by people who do drifting. Your coming across with this false concept of drifting with a open diff. It might work in a "game" but real life it is useless for drifting. I was helping for you to understand what actually drifting is but if you still believe open diff is the way, then great, good for you. Have fun with it if you can. I don't care what you do. But since this is a forum and i have the right to post even though you think it's "clutter".
Good luck with it then.

 

[Megamarcx84]

One wheeler peeler; when I hear open diff, this is the phrase that comes to mind.. nevermind that just about every single motorsport utilizes some form of limited slip/spooled diff..maybe OP has simply pointed out yet another glitch in GT5, that an open diff allows for effective drifting...or maybe he's just trying to prove a point that needs not be proven..in either case it seems counterproductive to handicap oneself in such a fashion..I liken it to drifting blindfolded, or steering with your feet and using your hands to operate the gas and brake, being able to do so isn't "keeping it realer" so to speak...I challenge OP to provide real world evidence of his "open diff" theory in action, and not just youtube vids of kids farting around in parking lots, I mean of skilled(not even necessarily professional) drifters utilizing an open diff effectively to provide themselves some sort of performance advantage whilst drifting...the argument has been proven for low hp, stock suspension, grippier tire compound drifters, etc...,I'm anxious to see what comes of this.

 

[D-Max]

Fact is fact. Gran Turismo 5 has a messed up tuning sheet. Locked diff's or open diff's work completely different to the real world. People are going to use things that feel nice. But I can guarantee the same stuff is beyond possible on certain terms in real life. That's what most people are looking for here. A Real Life experience in a game that just isn't going to happen, including myself! For that reason, I do see the point in the thread!

 

[Lock2Lock]

Fact is fact. Gran Turismo 5 has a messed up tuning sheet. Locked diff's or open diff's work completely different to the real world. People are going to use things that feel nice. But I can guarantee the same stuff is beyond possible on certain terms in real life. That's what most people are looking for here. A Real Life experience in a game that just isn't going to happen, including myself! For that reason, I do see the point in the thread!

Well in real life I own a 1994 GMC 1500 (yes two wheel drive). As you may know this truck was before GM's possitrac. So basically it is either 0/0/0 or 5/5/5. I have drifted it in the rain and gravel and on black top before. It actually was really smooth. Body roll of course but it can be done. Hard part it to keep the wheel speed up with a automatic transmission. So i start the drifts from about 1st or 2nd gear. It isn't bad I love it. Too bad I am selling it before I move back to Michigan in a few weeks. Not the most practical for snow.

That's my truck. I am going to miss it

 

[driftmonkey1971]

Fact is fact. Gran Turismo 5 has a messed up tuning sheet. Locked diff's or open diff's work completely different to the real world. People are going to use things that feel nice. But I can guarantee the same stuff is beyond possible on certain terms in real life. That's what most people are looking for here. A Real Life experience in a game that just isn't going to happen, including myself! For that reason, I do see the point in the thread!

Thank you i think i said On first page its not real Life and people Are posting pics of there real trucks :-(

Ive drifted cars like a bad bwoy only to look at the diff settings and think well that shouldnt work!!!
I also run an open diff On a 300zx and had some good sessions with decoy in his 300...so imo its what feels good for you...
I would give you settings but my ps3 has died after 2 yrs of constant gt5 :-S

 

[Lock2Lock]

Thank you i think i said On first page its not real Life and people Are posting pics of there real trucks :-(

Reason i posted it. Was because i was showing the car I was talking about and being relevant to the topic. And yes probably not nessasary to post the picture of it I just wanted people to get a better idea.


So don't think I don't know what i am talking about

 

[Reddee]

Zach get that beast sideways.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Zach get that beast sideways.

Yep. Like i said reason i posted it because it has a open differential. And i have drifted it. Believe it or not but besides the horsepower difference my Shelby Cobra i drifted in the game handled just like my truck in the rain or gravel

 

[JrD Sayas]

I have driven and drifted both cars with open and locked differentials, and locked is the way to go. My current car has an open diff, and as orphan says, it will drift. Until you let off the throttle or it gears. My former car had a 65% lock, and that worked very well on any surface. A fully locked car I tested once was too much. It drifted good, but it was very linear in its drifting. somewhere between 80 and 90% would be ideal, at least for me.

As in GT5, I go 60/60/60, and havent looked back. The car flows so good, and with a touch of throttle control, it does it exactly as I want it.

 

[Lock2Lock]

I have driven and drifted both cars with open and locked differentials, and locked is the way to go. My current car has an open diff, and as orphan says, it will drift. Until you let off the throttle or it gears. My former car had a 65% lock, and that worked very well on any surface. A fully locked car I tested once was too much. It drifted good, but it was very linear in its drifting. somewhere between 80 and 90% would be ideal, at least for me.

As in GT5, I go 60/60/60, and havent looked back. The car flows so good, and with a touch of throttle control, it does it exactly as I want it.

I hate the way a locked diff feels. Too touchy. It just isn't this smooth... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaXLGTxRXPg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I don't know what it is. But everyone's driving style is different. Like you say it won't drift off throttle... I have no problem with that. It has a lot to do with my part swap method to where each drive train part makes a difference (every part as in clutch plates/flywheel/drive shaft) on handling. So i illuminate that problem with those parts.

But everyone's style is different you just have to find your style. No wrong or right

 

[LPTuner]

And thus we end with this message. If you like Open Differential than you like Open Differential, and vis versa for Welded and Locked Wow what-do-ya-know I put all of your posts into one with less than 3 sentences.

^Just a lil' sarcasm.

 

[Lock2Lock]

And thus we end with this message. If you like Open Differential than you like Open Differential, and vis versa for Welded and Locked Wow what-do-ya-know I put all of your posts into one with less than 3 sentences.

^Just a lil' sarcasm.

Hahahaha but it's true

 

[LPTuner]

Hey Loc, havent we been in a few drift lobbies together before? I remember seeing a Loc2Loc person in a few of the ones I was in and had lots of fun


Quote of the Day: Drift if you can, Drift if you can't. Drift is 4 fun, Expecially if you can't---Me

 

[dice1998]

Reason i posted it. Was because i was showing the car I was talking about and being relevant to the topic. And yes probably not nessasary to post the picture of it I just wanted people to get a better idea.


So don't think I don't know what i am talking about

It looks like all you did was say how you felt about your truck.

Not sure how relevant.

 

[LPTuner]

Eh, It's a Forum. I think we can be allowed to be unrelevantly relevant

 

[Lock2Lock]

Hey Loc, havent we been in a few drift lobbies together before? I remember seeing a Loc2Loc person in a few of the ones I was in and had lots of fun

Quote of the Day: Drift if you can, Drift if you can't. Drift is 4 fun, Expecially if you can't---Me

Probably me hahaha. Add me if you want. By the way what is your PSN ID? I think that I might know you too. Not sure though. I believe I am the only RedSuns-Loc2Loc or now with the new psn id RSM-Lock2Lock

It looks like all you did was say how you felt about your truck.

Not sure how relevant.

No. Someone was saying it is impossible if i remember correctly to drift in real life with a open diff. I had used my truck as a example comparing it with my cobra in the game. Believe it or not they feel simular on wheel while going sideways hahaha

 

[Gonales]

From my experiences with the team, specifically Ono, and Decoy, we were using FC's and S chassis cars. At some point D-Max member Frag joins the lobby and just couldnt keep the lines we were using. We pointed him towards his diff settings, and when he exited the pit... Guess what? His lines were better, smoother and more consistent.

That's all the proof I need of what diff's people should be using.

(Yes, we were suing locked diffs, he wasnt.)

 

[Lock2Lock]

From my experiences with the team, specifically Ono, and Decoy, we were using FC's and S chassis cars. At some point D-Max member Frag joins the lobby and just couldnt keep the lines we were using. We pointed him towards his diff settings, and when he exited the pit... Guess what? His lines were better, smoother and more consistent.

That's all the proof I need of what diff's people should be using.

What diff setting?


But remember it is about driving style. That plays a big factor. While I am thinking of it would you like to just try my cobra? You may like it. I haven't had any complaints with it.

 

[Gonales]

What diff setting?


But remember it is about driving style. That plays a big factor. While I am thinking of it would you like to just try my cobra? You may like it. I haven't had any complaints with it.

Send it over, or just PM me the setup, either way. I'd love to try it, and see how you like your cars, and maybe even improve it.

I always use 5/60/60 as stated before, and I think Ono does as well. Not sure about Decoy, think he uses 60/60/60. (Not sure though).

 

[Lock2Lock]

Send it over, or just PM me the setup, either way. I'd love to try it, and see how you like your cars, and maybe even improve it.

I always use 5/60/60 as stated before, and I think Ono does as well. Not sure about Decoy, think he uses 60/60/60. (Not sure though).

Ok cool. Yeah i forgot what diff you use. I am open for anything too. So if you want to tweek it I'll try. I won't knock it before I try it.

I am getting online in a few i will probably just send it then.

 

[LPTuner]

Just a question, is the differential debate going still or has this thread turned into somthing useful like, say, Helping people with there style of differential tuning?


Edit: When I say help with their style of differential tuning, I don't mean helping them change. I mean helping them by asking how they like it and try different setups and seeing if you can find one to their liking, not just your liking.

 

[Gonales]

Just a question, is the differential debate going still or has this thread turned into somthing useful like, say, Helping people with there style of differential tuning?

Edit: When I say help with their style of differential tuning, I don't mean helping them change. I mean helping them by asking how they like it and try different setups and seeing if you can find one to their liking, not just your liking.

I don't know. Either way, I am gonna repost something that people will hopefully understand and respect.

'Acceleration' setting determines how much the LSD locks under acceleration, 'deceleration' setting determines how much the LSD works when under deceleration, fairly simple.

In RWD drift car, you want LSD effect under accel and decel, hence it's called a 2-way diff, because it provides LSD effect i both directions, accel and decel. Equivalent setting in GT5: Initial 10, Accel 60, Decel 60

Some race RWD's use what is called a 1.5-way, which provides full LSD effect under acceleration, but only 50% of that LSD effect under breaking, which helps stop the back end breaking away on the way into corners in tail-happy cars. Equivalent setting in GT5: Initial 10, Accel 60, Decel 30

FWD's use what is called a 1-way diff which only works under acceleration, meaning that turn-in is not affected in any way. Equivalent setting in GT5: Initial 10, Accel 60, Decel 5

IRL Drifting, most teams will weld the LSD permanently "locked" to ensure the rear axle is as rigid as possible. To mimic this in-game you will set the intial torque to the lowest setting and set the accel & decel to their maximum settings.

Also wrong, most competition drifters use 2-way diffs as they provide the added advantage over locked diffs of being able to be 'unlocked' simply by dipping the clutch. In a welded diff, there is no way to open the diff up to give the back end grip. LOTS of people use welded diffs for practice/fun, but for comps they have SERIOUS limitations.