order of tuning things

[reefer]

Does it matter what order you tune things in? Sometimes I see 'do power first, then suspension' etc. Does it matter?

And same goes for oil; any difference between doing it before adding all parts or after?

 

[Halcyon925]

Does it matter what order you tune things in? Sometimes I see 'do power first, then suspension' etc. Does it matter?

And same goes for oil; any difference between doing it before adding all parts or after?

Yes, there is an order. But, it only applies to the settings related to power. This being oil, horsepower, and the transmission. Your car will never be the same with an oil change, you be aware of that. An oil change will permenantly raise the torque peak, and maximum horsepower.

The transmission is dependent on these two variables. The transmission's gear ratios are based on the power of the car. If you have a transmission setup for 450 HP, then you upgrade the power to 500 HP, the transmission would be altered; and it wouldn't fare too well with more power since the ratios would be longer than what you set it up to be.

This also applies if you have 800 HP with the engine power at 100%. If you set up the transmission for the 800 and de-tuned the engine power to 50%, which is 400 HP, then the transmission's gears would be too short. Same goes for vice versa.

In short, set up the transmission AFTER you mess around with the engine. The other settings will not change your transmission setup, by the way.

 

[reefer]

Thanks Halcyon925.

But why is it important to 'do power first, then suspension'?

I'm still not sure if there's a difference in performance between putting on the power parts first and then doing the oil change vs. doing it the other way round?

 

[coryclifford]

Your car will never be the same with an oil change, you be aware of that. An oil change will permenantly raise the torque peak, and maximum horsepower.

Incorrect. It wears off and you're back to baseline.

Suspension or power first is irrelevant.

 

[reefer]

Goodman coryclifford.

The 'do power first, then suspension' came from one of Praiano's tunes and he knows his stuff. Just wondering if there was any reason for it?

 

[coryclifford]

Power first, then transmission gearing is the only relevant order. And that's because some added power parts change the redline of the engine and that affects the transmission settings.

 

[reefer]

Power first, then transmission gearing is the only relevant order. And that's because some added power parts change the redline of the engine and that affects the transmission settings.

Thanks for clearing that up. That's what I thought. Interesting why he would put that line in one of his tunes..

 

[eran0004]

Yes, there is an order. But, it only applies to the settings related to power. This being oil, horsepower, and the transmission. Your car will never be the same with an oil change, you be aware of that. An oil change will permenantly raise the torque peak, and maximum horsepower.

The transmission is dependent on these two variables. The transmission's gear ratios are based on the power of the car. If you have a transmission setup for 450 HP, then you upgrade the power to 500 HP, the transmission would be altered; and it wouldn't fare too well with more power since the ratios would be longer than what you set it up to be.

This also applies if you have 800 HP with the engine power at 100%. If you set up the transmission for the 800 and de-tuned the engine power to 50%, which is 400 HP, then the transmission's gears would be too short. Same goes for vice versa.

In short, set up the transmission AFTER you mess around with the engine. The other settings will not change your transmission setup, by the way.

I don't think that the gear ratios changes with power. The initial values when you install the gearbox depends on the engine speed, and the engine speed can be changed with some engine upgrades, but I have never seen the initial values change just because of a difference in power.

After you have installed the gearbox, no changes that you do to the engine have an effect on the gearbox.

 

[DolHaus]

Thanks Halcyon925.

But why is it important to 'do power first, then suspension'?

I'm still not sure if there's a difference in performance between putting on the power parts first and then doing the oil change vs. doing it the other way round?

Because the amount and speed of weight transfer will change once you add more power. For instance a stock vintage muscle car might compress the rear suspension to about half way when launching off the line but if you add another 500hp it might fully compress the suspension and cause the rear wheels to bottom out, skip and lose traction. Same thing with cornering and braking, you might be experiencing little body roll going through a corner at 70mph but if the car can now do 100mph you might be scraping the door handles along the floor. You might also find that a car that felt fine at 500pp suddenly becomes unpredictable and hard to handle at 600pp because it is slightly too soft and the slight body roll is enough to destabilise the car when going that little bit faster.
Changing tyres and weight reduction will have a far greater effect on how your suspension will need to be tuned than power but its always wise to start tuning with the car built to spec (minor differences in power/torque won't make much difference to the suspension but may affect the LSD)
Some power parts (the ones on the left side of the tuning screen) will change the RPM limit and this will affect your transmission setting, you may not be able to run the same numbers with different parts fitted and this can have an effect on performance.

(no difference in figures if you do parts then oil vs. oil then parts, its a flat 5% gain on peak but will decline with mileage so you need to keep an eye on it)

👍

 

[reefer]

Thanks DolHaus. Do you mean it's not good to add suspension figures before power parts even when simply inputting a tune found on this forum? Or are you talking about when tuning up yourself? Many thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[CBH]

Thanks DolHaus. Do you mean it's not good to add suspension figures before power parts even when simply inputting a tune found on this forum? Or are you talking about when tuning up yourself? Many thanks for taking the time to reply.

If you find a tune on this forum, you can do the suspension first and then do the weight LSD, brakes but do not do the transmission first before adding power parts, always add power parts before the doing the transmission when finding a tune here.

 

[nowcontrol]

After you have installed the gearbox, no changes that you do to the engine have an effect on the gearbox.

That statement is wrong. Engine part swaps do alter any custom gearbox settings to varying degrees, the only exceptions are the exhaust manifold and air intake, or swapping between low/mid/high turbos.

 

[eran0004]

That statement is wrong. Engine part swaps do alter any custom gearbox settings to varying degrees, the only exceptions are the exhaust manifold and air intake, or swapping between low/mid/high turbos.

Are you sure? What is changing?

 

[nowcontrol]

The gearbox ratio values change, depending on the position of the sliders when a part swap is done. It can make a mess of some finely tuned ratios.

I always redo my gearbox after a part swap.

 

[DolHaus]

Thanks DolHaus. Do you mean it's not good to add suspension figures before power parts even when simply inputting a tune found on this forum? Or are you talking about when tuning up yourself? Many thanks for taking the time to reply.

If you are just rebuilding someone else's tune then you can do the suspension/LSD/aero at any stage you like, but to replicate the transmission settings you need to add the power parts before adding the custom trans (or push the reset button on the trans after you have added the power parts if it comes with one fitted as standard).
A lot of tuners make the notation in their tune sheet because they are part of FITT and we often have problems with test drivers not being able to reach the stated transmission settings in competitions, the notation is just a reminder of the procedure to avoid confusion.
If you are building a car from scratch then I'd always recommend building it to spec (PP/tyres) before starting to tune the car so you know how the car is going to perform under those conditions

 

[reefer]

If you are just rebuilding someone else's tune then you can do the suspension/LSD/aero at any stage you like, but to replicate the transmission settings you need to add the power parts before adding the custom trans (or push the reset button on the trans after you have added the power parts if it comes with one fitted as standard).
A lot of tuners make the notation in their tune sheet because they are part of FITT and we often have problems with test drivers not being able to reach the stated transmission settings in competitions, the notation is just a reminder of the procedure to avoid confusion.
If you are building a car from scratch then I'd always recommend building it to spec (PP/tyres) before starting to tune the car so you know how the car is going to perform under those conditions

That's basically what I thought DolHaus. Many thanks!

That statement is wrong. Engine part swaps do alter any custom gearbox settings to varying degrees, the only exceptions are the exhaust manifold and air intake, or swapping between low/mid/high turbos.

Eran, are you in agreement that the gearbox ratio values change when a part swap is done?

Back to the original question; why would Praiano have added 'do power first, then suspension' on one of his tunes if someone was simply copying/inputing his tune/figures?

 

[DolHaus]

Back to the original question; why would Praiano have added 'do power first, then suspension' on one of his tunes if someone was simply copying/inputing his tune/figures?

Language barrier most likely, his English was very good for the most part but there are always little translation quirks

 

[Skygrasper550]

When tuning your car's transmission, most of the Power upgrades affect your car's max RPM and thus, your transmission setup. So you need to be mindful of these parts before tuning your transmission, as they can have a huge impact on your car's overall performance (not just straight line speed, but being able to maximize a car's powerband when navigating corners as well). These are:

Engine Upgrade: each level adds 100 extra RPM (so 100 RPM for Stage 1, 200 RPM for Stage 2, 300 RPM for Stage 3)
Computer Upgrade: adds 200 extra RPM
Exhaust: each level adds 100 extra RPM (100 RPM for Sports, 200 RPM for Semi-Racing, 300 RPM for Racing)
Catalytic Converter: adds 200 extra RPM

Be mindful especially of the Catalytic Converter, as it doesn't really add a lot of power but adds 200 RPM which is quite substantial most of the time in screwing with your gear change timings and maximizing the engine's powerband when going through corners.

 

[reefer]

When tuning your car's transmission, most of the Power upgrades affect your car's max RPM and thus, your transmission setup. So you need to be mindful of these parts before tuning your transmission, as they can have a huge impact on your car's overall performance (not just straight line speed, but being able to maximize a car's powerband when navigating corners as well). These are:

Engine Upgrade: each level adds 100 extra RPM (so 100 RPM for Stage 1, 200 RPM for Stage 2, 300 RPM for Stage 3)
Computer Upgrade: adds 200 extra RPM
Exhaust: each level adds 100 extra RPM (100 RPM for Sports, 200 RPM for Semi-Racing, 300 RPM for Racing)
Catalytic Converter: adds 200 extra RPM

Be mindful especially of the Catalytic Converter, as it doesn't really add a lot of power but adds 200 RPM which is quite substantial most of the time in screwing with your gear change timings and maximizing the engine's powerband when going through corners.

Thanks =drifting 24/7= .. good to know!

So, in effect, it's best to run with say a Focus '02 at 500pp and a completely different Focus '02 for 550pp? If the values in A, B, and C settings didn't change (with one affecting the other) this wouldn't be necessary(?).

 

[Skygrasper550]

Thanks =drifting 24/7= .. good to know!

So, in effect, it's best to run with say a Focus '02 at 500pp and a completely different Focus '02 for 550pp? If the values in A, B, and C settings didn't change (with one affecting the other) this wouldn't be necessary(?).

you're welcome

I would have to say yes, it's more ideal to have two Focus-es because, a 500PP would have a completely different tune from a 550PP one, most likely since you'd have different Engine and Weight Reduction upgrades on eah setup. Bear in mind that Engine and Weight Reduction upgrades carry over through all the different Settings Pages (A, B and C).

Let's say, you have a supposed 550PP tune in Setting A, which would most likely involve Engine and Weight Reduction S3. If you're planning on making a 500PP tune in Setting B, you'll notice Setting B already has Engine and Weight Reduction S3, even if you haven't touched Page B yet. So, if you want to keep your 550PP tune at Page A, you'd then have to work around that Engine and Weight Reduction S3, mainly by removing the turbo upgrade (turbos don't carry over so it's fine, but it's up to you if you want to use a turbo in your 500PP tune to fit whatever track you're racing on) or using ballast (which we pretty much know won't give the same kind of feel as opposed to removing the Weight Reduction upgrade). If you decide to remove Engine S3 in Page B, your gear settings in Page A would then be affected and be completely different because you removed a total of 300 max RPM from the tune.

To re-iterate my answer, yes, it's a lot more ideal and practical to have two Focus-es, each with a 550PP and 500PP tune respectively.

 

[reefer]

Did they mess up when thinking about settings A, B and C? What are those settings really useful for then?

Also, you wrote:

"...or using ballast (which we pretty much know won't give the same kind of feel as opposed to removing the Weight Reduction upgrade)."

Sorry to be thick, but can you talk about this a little?

Cheers mate.

 

[Skygrasper550]

Did they mess up when thinking about settings A, B and C? What are those settings really useful for then?

They're still useful, you just can't swap Engine and Weight Reduction upgrades across the Settings Pages but you can swap everything else. Suspension, turbos, LSD, whatever.

Also, you wrote:

"...or using ballast (which we pretty much know won't give the same kind of feel as opposed to removing the Weight Reduction upgrade)."

Sorry to be thick, but can you talk about this a little?

Cheers mate.

Let's say you have a Chevrolet Corvette C7 which has Weight Reduction Stage 1 and no ballast (that should be around 1350kg). If you fitted Weight Reduction Stage 2 and used ballast all the way back to 1350kg, it would not feel the same compared to when it only have WR Stage 1 with no ballast (even if the ballast is dead center so that you'd still have 50:50 weight distribution). Try it, you'll see what I mean.

 

[reefer]

Let's say you have a Chevrolet Corvette C7 which has Weight Reduction Stage 1 and no ballast (that should be around 1350kg). If you fitted Weight Reduction Stage 2 and used ballast all the way back to 1350kg, it would not feel the same compared to when it only have WR Stage 1 with no ballast (even if the ballast is dead center so that you'd still have 50:50 weight distribution). Try it, you'll see what I mean.

Gotcha. Thanks for that!

The setting pages would have been so much better if we were able to have individual settings for A, B and C which didn't affect each other.

 

[CraigHyphenO]

When tuning a car for one particular circuit, I take it to the circuit in question in free run mode, either start with a base setup, or if you do not start with a base setup, I start from a completely neutral setup (equal ride height, no camber, neutral toe, neutral brakes and so on if a 50:50 weight distribution for a RWD car, slightly skewed if not [I have my own personal list depending on the type of car]) and I then work from there.

First of all, I find the right balance with the gear ratios and then differential, and then I work on the suspension which takes a while to find the perfect balance. From there on I focus on getting the right downforce settings before going for some final tweaking.

If you are doing things like experimenting with turbos and weight reduction as mentioned above, I would do these things before you try anything else. Ultimately, finding an optimum setup for a single race could take many hours, and for a championship, considerably longer.

 

[Khronokai]

I would do power first then suspension for the simple reason that more power requires more grip. what may have been a stable tune at low HP may no longer grip as well under acceleration as it did, causing wheel spin.

Adding grip mechanically using the car's mass front vs rear WILL affect handling characteristics.

 

[reefer]

Many thanks for taking the time to reply guys. Being new to GT6, there's so much to learn and take in.. my head hurts thinking about it

 

[ALB123]

Many thanks for taking the time to reply guys. Being new to GT6, there's so much to learn and take in.. my head hurts thinking about it

I've been playing since December 2013 and I still can't tune worth a damn. I hope that isn't the case with you. Hopefully, you will pick it up easily and be able to tune your cars perfectly. I will admit that I don't put much time into trying to tune anymore and I probably would be a bit better at it now that I'm a little bit better of a driver and I understand the car's physics a bit more, but I can't be bothered. I prefer to drive replica builds anyway, so I stick with my sensei, @Ridox2JZGTE!

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I've been playing since December 2013 and I still can't tune worth a damn. I hope that isn't the case with you. Hopefully, you will pick it up easily and be able to tune your cars perfectly. I will admit that I don't put much time into trying to tune anymore and I probably would be a bit better at it now that I'm a little bit better of a driver and I understand the car's physics a bit more, but I can't be bothered. I prefer to drive replica builds anyway, so I stick with my sensei, @Ridox2JZGTE!

Well, the only advice that I could give is to get the suspension and LSD sorted before adding more power ( use lower grip tire when doing this if you can - comfort tires preferably ), once that is done, add power that you wish to aim, then tweak the suspension and LSD further to accommodate the new power. When the suspension and LSD was sorted well on lesser power, usually it won't take much tweak on damper + ARB + LSD to make it work on higher power ( be sure to get the tires as well to support the new power )

 

[ALB123]

Oh, I forgot to add...and I'm telling you, this IS important. Learn how to drive on Comfort tires while you're still relatively new to Gran Turismo. The temptation is there to just throw on Racing Soft (RS) tires, especially if you go into public online lobbies, but trust me you will become a much better driver if you can handle a car well on Comfort tires. Start with Comfort Soft on anything up to 550PP and you'll be doing yourself a great service. 500-600PP, go to SH tires, maybe SM if you're crashing all the time. Putting RS tires on a street car (or even RH tires) is just foolish, in my opinion. The amount of grip is so unrealistic.

I know that you were really only asking about tuning, but I really wish someone had told me the truth about tire grades in GT6 much earlier in my learning days. Also, you DO tune based on which type of tires you're using. Tuning a Corvette Z06 for Comfort Medium tires is going to be different in suspension/alignment and LSD compared to tuning that same car for Sport Soft tires. Again...Good luck!

 

[reefer]

Thanks for everyone's input and ALB123 for sharing your experience. When I come online with an hour in my pocket all I want to do is race! So much to do and so little time