PCARS first impressions!

[Awong124]

Yeah probably a bug with the race length slider. Wish I had it as 3hours in that beast was tough going, I've a blister on my hand today lol. Oh and the time of day progressed into darkness after some time so the sun was only an issue for a while. I figured that's just what drivers have to cope with so I just took it a little easier while I was partially blinded. It did look beautiful when I could see though.

Yeah... 30 minutes was enough.

 

[KamyKaze1098]

... and the lack of cars.

What lack of cars man??

I've been driving the Clio and I don't want to drive anything else
I've still not tried a lot, and I mean A LOT of cars yet

 

[bleeder]

What lack of cars man??

I've been driving the Clio and I don't want to drive anything else
I've still not tried a lot, and I mean A LOT of cars yet

still loads left for me too. and tracks actually. the other night I thought I'd try the Mercs out one after another but got in the first one (190E) and didn't get out of it because I was having so much fun! had to force myself to try something else a couple of days later (the DTM - wow, what a difference) and now I'm setting up the Capri which will probably keep me busy for another few days. the fact that almost every car is a blast to drive is such an achievement for SMS.

 

[Zakspeed_TV]

I just can't get myself out of the GTs. We finally have a true racing game/SIM on console 👍
Am hooked like Jerome

 

[Grandea GTR]

What lack of cars man??

I've been driving the Clio and I don't want to drive anything else
I've still not tried a lot, and I mean A LOT of cars yet

I know, there are alot of cars, but whenever it comes to the regular cars, there isn't that much compared to race cars and track cars.

 

[Brend]

Yeah... That must be true. That's why F1 teams have simulators with pads. Because that's all it's needed

If you read the first sentence you'd realize that what you said makes absolutely no sense.

A wheel merely makes it easier to feed finer inputs into the simulation

A wheel is always the best option but pads can still be utilized effectively. Just read the leaderboards.

 

[UkHardcore23]

still loads left for me too. and tracks actually. the other night I thought I'd try the Mercs out one after another but got in the first one (190E) and didn't get out of it because I was having so much fun! had to force myself to try something else a couple of days later (the DTM - wow, what a difference) and now I'm setting up the Capri which will probably keep me busy for another few days. the fact that almost every car is a blast to drive is such an achievement for SMS.

Same… i decided right lets start trying out some cars… the first car was the 190e… oh man it was so good i stayed in it for over 2 hours

 

[priesty_lfc]

True but it doesn't show aids, those pad times are irrelevant if they have all the aids on, stability control with a pad may aswell be an arcade game as how is the 'simulation'?

 

[Johnnypenso]

If you read the first sentence you'd realize that what you said makes absolutely no sense.

A wheel merely makes it easier to feed finer inputs into the simulation

A wheel is always the best option but pads can still be utilized effectively. Just read the leaderboards.

Utilized effectively =/= being able to critique physics as well as you can with a wheel though. The more information you get from the game, the better your critique will be. Since no one drives with a controller in real life, you also can't make comparisons between inputs in real life vs. game unless you have a wheel, and the better the wheel the better the critique, all else the same.

 

[Speedster911]

Do you think you could judge the efficacy of a saxaphone by blowing air into it with an air horn while playing it using chopsticks? I don't think so. If you can't make accurate inputs into the simulation, there's no way you can accurately judge the physics of it.

A wheel merely makes it easier to feed finer inputs into the simulation. You can always judge the output based on your input. Even if you have the controls set to literally snap from lock to lock in an instant, the car ought to behave the way it would in real life if you could snap the steering from lock to lock in an instant.

You don't need a wheel or force feedback to assess handling dynamics or whether the limits of traction are realistic. To make accurate assessments, all you need is an understanding of how inputs on the analog stick translate to steering angles within the game -- the steering wheel in cockpit view is a handy indicator for that. The physics engine produces the same output from a given input (steering angle) no matter how you play.

The wheel does a good job of indicating what the car's doing or about to do, though it stinks that wheel users only get to see full/proper rotation of the virtual wheel. On a controller (is the case with all sims I guess) it just pauses at 90 degrees indicating a full lock.

Something interesting to note: when you go full lock left, one of the driver's hand moves away as if he's getting ready to cross over and do another rotation to the left (as with a real car). However, on the right full lock at 90 degrees, both his hands stay on the wheel. Just had a funny feeling when I saw it.. perhaps a design oversight.

I can only imagine how much fun you wheel users must be having with the full wheel rotation in cockpit and everything. Wheels do make a difference: even in FM5, you can see the cockpit wheel actually going to full lock faster and the front wheels turning more due to using a gaming wheel.

Can you guys give me any input on the Thrustmaster wheel for X1? The one that comes with a 6-speed shifter also, and 3-pedal set.

 

[Wolfe]

You're moving the goalposts.

Sorry, I thought LeMansAid had already moved the point of conversation first. I'm aware you were originally talking about Speedster911's broken controls.

Yeah... That must be true. That's why F1 teams have simulators with pads. Because that's all it's needed

Now that's moving the goalposts. Formula 1 teams don't stick their drivers on a simulator to evaluate the authenticity of the physics model.

The more information you get from the game, the better your critique will be. Since no one drives with a controller in real life, you also can't make comparisons between inputs in real life vs. game unless you have a wheel, and the better the wheel the better the critique, all else the same.

The information I'm concerned about is what occurs on the screen. How the car behaves and reacts to inputs, no matter how those inputs are fed into the physics engine. Wheelspin, understeer, oversteer, weight shifting and balance, suspension modelling, etc...you don't need force feedback or fine control over the steering to evaluate those things. If the steering is jerky, a simulator should react the way a car would in real life if you actually jerked it around the same way. That was LeMansAid's point.

I'm aware many people in this subforum are all about replicating the experience of driving a car as closely as possible, including how the steering "feels" in your hands. I don't care that much about pretending I'm driving a car. I'm mostly just interested in playing a videogame with authentic physics.

 

[LeMansAid]

A wheel merely makes it easier to feed finer inputs into the simulation. You can always judge the output based on your input. Even if you have the controls set to literally snap from lock to lock in an instant, the car ought to behave the way it would in real life if you could snap the steering from lock to lock in an instant.

Absolutely correct.

You're moving the goalposts. It's not wheel vs. controller its broken controller interface vs. physics. The original point of contention was passing judgment on game physics while at the same time saying the controller interface was broken.

Your premise was that one cannot judge physics while using a poor input method. A gamepad already is a poor input method, but ideally devs get around that by smoothing input, not smoothing physics. Thus, the physics are there for the judging. Some games have physics that are poor enough that only good driving looks right. A proper sim will look and behave correctly regardless of how good, bad or just plain saxophoney the input/driving is. In all cases, the physics are there for the judging.

 

[Speedster911]

You can judge the physics in a game just fine using a pad.

A wheel of course unlocks a deeper dimension of physics.

Edit: Got a question about countersteering on the controller.

I've experimented a great deal, but the game feels funny to me when your car starts sliding or losses control:

Under normal circumstances, the cockpit steering wheel/game's input feeld nice, light and nimble, but the moment you start to slide and want to countersteer to recover, the steering feels really heavy and doesn't want to go quickly to opposite lock. Forza's wheel actually becomes looser when you start sliding. Isn't this how it is IRL? I've never driven a race car, but when you start sliding at low or high speeds, the wheel and tires actually become looser - simple physics.

Would this be a controller countersteering bug? Right now, this is the only thing that's getting in the way of fully enjoying the game. I'm on X1 as you peeps know (or may not).

Edit #2:

The pad countersteering problem can be rectified to some degree by turning on "opposite lock help". However, the game's frustrating me to bits even though I spent 2 hours (yes, 2 hours in a row) just testing out different controller tweaks on 2 tracks: Donington GP and Dubai Autodrome International.

My settings - all deadzones at zero except for steering which is at 10. Any higher, I feel the steering responds unpredictably and the nose almost wildly veers off to one side. All sensitivity settings at zero, including steering. Speed sensitivity at 85; at this setting I have plenty of control, but it's still not quite smooth or stable. Controller filtering sensitivity is at 45; I find the higher this setting, the less twitchy your car is, but too much will probably cause lag or dampen inputs, so this is my sweet spot.

Controller input mode set at 3 before making any of these adjustments. Soft steering dampening on, opposite lock help on, visual wheel filtering off.

Now, after experimenting for 2 hours, I'm not writing this game off from a control standpoint, not just yet. I believe this may be a classic example of inadequate testing on the controller before releasing the game.

Even on the settings listed above, which I find to be the smoothest and least twitchy (in the Pcars world, not relative to other games), the game interprets inputs as if your yanking the steering in either direction, even though you're being as smooth as humanly possible. I'm a fairly good precision driver, not just when it comes to games/sims, but IRL as well.

Also, as you center the stick smoothly, the game does not center the wheel back according to your input; it "springs" the wheel back into place, which again makes the car feel rigid and twitchy.

The game's controls are not broken, this is simply a control issue on the standard pad. And I am very hopeful the patch will interpret the user's control properly on the pad and allow for a full range of steering and countersteering without any twitchy outputs or sudden jerks.

As it is, the steering seems to be responding in a half digital/half analog kind of way. I hope that describes it well. No other way to explain it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Your premise was that one cannot judge physics while using a poor input method. A gamepad already is a poor input method, but ideally devs get around that by smoothing input, not smoothing physics. Thus, the physics are there for the judging. Some games have physics that are poor enough that only good driving looks right. A proper sim will look and behave correctly regardless of how good, bad or just plain saxophoney the input/driving is. In all cases, the physics are there for the judging.

No, that wasn't my premise.

 

[Speedster911]

MAJOR update:

Holy crapiola guys, I don't know wtf just happenned, but the damnest thing just happened (George Castanza voice):

I decided to go online and hook up my controller along with the headset, to check if any controller updates were available. It took me through the process. There were none.

Unplugged the controller but didn't disconnect from Live... went to the game and OMG!!! The control is right where it should be. The twitch reaction is gone... the car springing back to the center when straightening the wheel is gone. Even countersteering is manageable now and predictable to some degree as long as you keep 'opposite lock help' on.

I swear I didn't change a thing in the settings, just hooked up my controller through a USB wire, checked for updates, found none, disconnected and proceeded to play the game. Nothing got updated (not under my nose anyway).

The control is nearly smooth as silk now; I'm starting to feel the same excitement rushing back as I played the first few GT and Forza games.

I'm simply at a loss for words... is this Karma's way of rewarding me for sticking to the game?!!

Has the patch/update rolled out? I don't think so.

 

[RacerPaul]

Someone on the pCARS forum said the same thing. Strange

 

[PARAGON GT]

I've been on the fence about picking up this game and after skimming through this thread, its good to see a lot of people getting into Project Cars. I might just pick this one up.

 

[Speedster911]

@RacerPaul
@PARAGON GT

Dudes, I just don't understand... I mean this is just whack! But I ain't complaining... the issues are gone. The game is almost completely playable!!!


Go ahead and pick this up, it's a very nice break from Forza. The game is a true motorsport game/sim. Albiet a few visual shortcomings and bugs, it is worth the purchase IMO. At first, it might knock you off your butt, and make you cuss at it, but spend a little time, and it grows on you.

With PCARS 2 also in the works, Forza finally has real competition on their hands.

Funny observation though: on a radical SRT8 I see the driver spinning the wheel twice, the way you do in a road car.. maybe that's how the Radical is built, but then why does my wheel stop at 90 degrees on an SLS or MP4-12C? Wierd... but I don't care!!!

Can't beat weather and night driving. Awesome feeling. You know what lads? I think it IS karma looking out for me for not exchanging the PCARS disc.

 

[mister dog]

You know what lads? I think it IS karma looking out for me for not exchanging the PCARS disc.

Karma should punish you for all the nasty things you said

 

[Speedster911]

Karma should punish you for all the nasty things you said

Hahaha... all is good ...and (mostly) all is forgiven, now that the control is where it should be. Now that I've played it for a good few hours without the cars misbehaving, it is a handful. I want to play it all day and all night. Visuals nowhere as good as the PC version, but it would have to suffice. FM5 is still superior visually, but that's no surprise, the game has had a huge budget at its disposal since day one.

I shudder to think of the possibilities... by the time PCARS 2 or 3 comes out.

 

[Johnnypenso]

@RacerPaul
@PARAGON GT

Dudes, I just don't understand... I mean this is just whack! But I ain't complaining... the issues are gone. The game is almost completely playable!!!


Go ahead and pick this up, it's a very nice break from Forza. The game is a true motorsport game/sim. Albiet a few visual shortcomings and bugs, it is worth the purchase IMO. At first, it might knock you off your butt, and make you cuss at it, but spend a little time, and it grows on you.

With PCARS 2 also in the works, Forza finally has real competition on their hands.

Funny observation though: on a radical SRT8 I see the driver spinning the wheel twice, the way you do in a road car.. maybe that's how the Radical is built, but then why does my wheel stop at 90 degrees on an SLS or MP4-12C? Wierd... but I don't care!!!

Can't beat weather and night driving. Awesome feeling. You know what lads? I think it IS karma looking out for me for not exchanging the PCARS disc.

Haha...kudos to you for sticking with it! This could be a major breakthrough. Deserves it's own thread as it could be a real problem solver!

 

[Speedster911]

Haha...kudos to you for sticking with it! This could be a major breakthrough. Deserves it's own thread as it could be a real problem solver!

Pass the word mateyy!!

All you X1'ers. Just do what I did, the control might correct itself!

Man, what a bizarre world we live in! Gotta love it.

 

[blowfishrulez]

Was this the first time you hooked up the controller by the USB cable? I know that there is an updated controller firmware available for quite some time and many users never ever hooked the controller up to get the update.

 

[Speedster911]

Was this the first time you hooked up the controller by the USB cable? I know that there is an updated controller firmware available for quite some time and many users never ever hooked the controller up to get the update.

Dude, read my post again. There was no update available, but I still went through the process, just for good measure.

Everything was updated the day I got the console, including the controller.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Was this the first time you hooked up the controller by the USB cable? I know that there is an updated controller firmware available for quite some time and many users never ever hooked the controller up to get the update.

Should maybe let the big foreheads know about this to see if they can repeat it

 

[mister dog]

He mentions at the end of the video, that he did a tyre wear test with some mates online. Did 30 laps with x7 wear and they didn't feel a difference at all. Also he states there are no differences between the different tyre compounds of the same nature, like soft medium or hard slick tyres.

I felt tyre wear already myself (or that's what i think), so what do you guys think about the matter?

 

[EmArA]

Freaking love it ...the sound is epic especially from the RUF RGT-8

Track and car list is totally acceptable in my book. Seems like ps4 does not have those nasty bugs found on xbox1.

 

[Formula1269]

Seems that way, although the PS4 version does have its fair share of bugs too. Love the game and its potential, but I have wondered from time to time, just how much the community was really involved in the development of this game.

 

[Gejabo]

He mentions at the end of the video, that he did a tyre wear test with some mates online. Did 30 laps with x7 wear and they didn't feel a difference at all. Also he states there are no differences between the different tyre compounds of the same nature, like soft medium or hard slick tyres.

I felt tyre wear already myself (or that's what i think), so what do you guys think about the matter?

I also felt tyre wear..

This video is unwatchable due to the guy's voice :/

 

[mister dog]

I also felt tyre wear..

This video is unwatchable due to the guy's voice :/

He's a bit butthurt lately with the anti PCARS crusade, but he raised some valid points and his comments about the Q&A department made me laugh