PD: Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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On the risk of writing something completely off-topic..

You'll find the majority of people complaining are those that have never created or contributed anything creative or constructive for others.

They're takers rather than givers. So naturally, younger people are more likely to exhibit this behavior.

It happens to things across all media platforms and industries.

The uproar around spec 2.0 is exactly the same thing you'll see every time World of Warcraft gets a new patch for example.

Agree,
also like the Ishmael reference.
 
"You'll find the majority of people complaining are those that have never created or contributed anything creative or constructive for others."

Quite simply not. PD are just simply so incapable of producing a game that is fit for 2011. They have a loyal following of fans (myself included) that bought a PS3 to play their game, they overshot their deadlines constantly and delivered a game that was half finished, with most content being imported from GT4.

PD are driven to produce a game that does what they want, but they don't follow it through to conclusion. Not only that but they focus on ridiculous features that nobody asks for and neglect things that should be of upmost importance.

So when an update like this comes through, you may hope that some of the fundamental issues are addressed, but they are not. More jarring for me is the poor DLC content which falls so far short.

Frankly there are open source racing games on the PC that offer more content, so perhaps asking a bit more for your investment of console and £40 game isn't too much to ask?
 
"You'll find the majority of people complaining are those that have never created or contributed anything creative or constructive for others."

Quite simply not. PD are just simply so incapable of producing a game that is fit for 2011. They have a loyal following of fans (myself included) that bought a PS3 to play their game, they overshot their deadlines constantly and delivered a game that was half finished, with most content being imported from GT4.

PD are driven to produce a game that does what they want, but they don't follow it through to conclusion. Not only that but they focus on ridiculous features that nobody asks for and neglect things that should be of upmost importance.

So when an update like this comes through, you may hope that some of the fundamental issues are addressed, but they are not. More jarring for me is the poor DLC content which falls so far short.

Frankly there are open source racing games on the PC that offer more content, so perhaps asking a bit more for your investment of console and £40 game isn't too much to ask?

Umm...no.

PD has made a game for 2010-2011. What we don't see is how they make it behind the scenes. We don't know what's going on in the kitchen, so we can never fully know the whole story. Making games for the PS3 has been noted to be more difficult than on the 360 and PC. PD knows the limitations of the system they are working with, not us. Can they improve it? Hell yes they can, and they know it too. Is a it great game than it was a year ago? Hell yes again.

And this is PD's first attempt at priced DLC and people are already cutting them short?

I may sound like a fan boy to you, but I'm being realistic about this.

And what is fit for 2011? Zombies? Perks? Map packs?

I'm not trying to grill you, but sometimes posts like these need to get addressed.

Edit: On second thought, a zombie seasonal would be fun.
 
I find the praise for Spec II even stranger than the bitching.

I know it's nice that they are updating the game and all, but they do not deserve to be praised for spending a year to add features that most other racing games ship with on day-one.

That's because you only read the Spec 2 description or you aren't aware that most of the things Spec 2 changes and includes were things we were hoping for. We're a little more selfless to look beneath the exterior.

Most other racing games have weather, time change? Those two features make huge differences when choosing a racing (simulation) game. What other game has course maker? Greenawalt said they weren't able to do that. ABLE.

Talk about speaking out of ones rear end. I have this thing where I just can't let comments like these go when they're full of FALSE. Sorry, that must make me an apologist.
What I hate more than the moaning and groaning is the PD apologists who constantly make excuses for PD's shortcomings when it comes to this game, the people who just can't bring themselves to say a bad word about Gran Turismo, Polyphony Digital and Kazunori Yamauchi. The people who glorify these free updates and their content like PD are giving us something wonderful when in reality it's just stuff that should have been in the game since launch.

:dunce:Get out of hereeeeeee. You prefer to not get any updates? Any other developer that has done what PD has?


Constructive crtisism is one thing. Moaning and groaning is another. PD did a great job with the update. Can't wait to buy the DLC!

👍

Give it a second thought, you'll notice that I didn't mean really GT6, but my intention was to say some people thought 2.0 was gonna be a complete overhaul.


think about what you said a few posts back.

Thanks for "stupid" anyway, and goodbye.
👍👍

That's exactly what we're talking about when we say whiners and complainers. That's an example of the people who can't seem to leave out the trash talking when making any constructive criticism. It's always about what they think and that's what makes them ignoramuses.
 
Umm...no.

PD has made a game for 2010-2011. What we don't see is how they make it behind the scenes. We don't know what's going on in the kitchen, so we can never fully know the whole story. Making games for the PS3 has been noted to be more difficult than on the 360 and PC. PD knows the limitations of the system they are working with, not us. Can they improve it? Hell yes they can, and they know it too. Is a it great game than it was a year ago? Hell yes again.

And this is PD's first attempt at priced DLC and people are already cutting them short?

I may sound like a fan boy to you, but I'm being realistic about this.

And what is fit for 2011? Zombies? Perks? Map packs?

I'm not trying to grill you, but sometimes posts like these need to get addressed.

Edit: On second thought, a zombie seasonal would be fun.

Programming for the PS3 was more difficult 6 years ago when the PS3 was new and developers were unfamiliar with it, it's certainly not the case anymore.
 
PD knows the limitations of the system they are working with, not us.
I can't think of a single issue besides the shadows/smoke where this would have anything to do with the complaints people are having.

The reality is that PD tried to over deliver and came up short on consistency. I think the disappointment with 2.0 is that it gave people the sense that PD had learned the error of their ways and that they were going to make things right, but it only proved that they're having trouble fully baking any of their ideas.
 
I can't think of a single issue besides the shadows/smoke where this would have anything to do with the complaints people are having.

The reality is that PD tried to over deliver and came up short on consistency. I think the disappointment with 2.0 is that it gave people the sense that PD had learned the error of their ways and that they were going to make things right, but it only proved that they're having trouble fully baking any of their ideas.

So much falsery going on.

First of all, how many people are disappointed by Spec 2? How many people are you?
 
sumbrownkid
Umm...no.

PD has made a game for 2010-2011. What we don't see is how they make it behind the scenes. We don't know what's going on in the kitchen, so we can never fully know the whole story. Making games for the PS3 has been noted to be more difficult than on the 360 and PC. PD knows the limitations of the system they are working with, not us. Can they improve it? Hell yes they can, and they know it too. Is a great game than it was a year ago? Hell yes again.

And this PD's first attempt at priced DLC and people are already cutting them short?

I may sound like a fan boy to you, but I'm being realistic about this.

And what is fit for 2011? Zombies? Perks? map packs?

I'm not trying to grill you, but sometimes posts like these need to get addressed.

Okay, you are correct in saying that the game is better now than a year ago, but it still has poor online multiplayer, bad AI, poor quality control on certain tracks, poor joypad caliberation for acceleration and braking, not enough single player events in a boring structure. Shall I go on?

There are fanboys on here that are so blind and will defend the game to the end. They criticise people for speaking their mind about weaker parts of the game because it isn't founded, but there are countless more of them that defend the game without any foundation what so ever. It works both ways, you know.
 
What I hate more than the moaning and groaning is the PD apologists who constantly make excuses for PD's shortcomings when it comes to this game, the people who just can't bring themselves to say a bad word about Gran Turismo, Polyphony Digital and Kazunori Yamauchi. The people who glorify these free updates and their content like PD are giving us something wonderful when in reality it's just stuff that should have been in the game since launch.


I could go on and on picking it apart. For all those who think PD are wonderful and have been supporting their game for a year that is simply not the case, they've been fixing their game for a year. Huge difference.

+1,000,000

SPOT on.....although it should be expected on a site dedicated to GT. I kind of hoped they would be more mature reactions to criticism, but it I would wager those who defend GT5 to the hilt are in the 15-25 age range and hence don't like anyone criticising what they're "into". I'm not saying ALL are 15-25 though and not all 15-25s are immature.
 
:lol:

I would like to say go make your own game to a lot of the posters, but I can see that hitting me back on the face.

I may not have the technical knowhow....but I sure as hell could design a better Aspec than what we have now. Most of what I want is ALREADY in the damn game yet PD deny us the options.
 
So much falsery going on.

First of all, how many people are disappointed by Spec 2? How many people are you?

You see right through me another_jakhole. Especially the part where I said that everybody was disappointed with 2.0. I'm especially surprised at your sleuthing ability to know that I've been posting from every account that has said they're disappointed.
 
:dunce:Get out of hereeeeeee. You prefer to not get any updates? Any other developer that has done what PD has?

I'd prefer a game that doesn't need updates a year down the line to add in content that should have been there from the start, I expect that from every game developer and publisher, not just PD and Sony. I don't want to spend £45 on a game in November 2010 and still not be playing the finished article in October 2011, the GT5 is the only game I can remember where people are actually arguing the case to make this acceptable, if it was Forza on the Xbox (of which I own neither by the way) the same apologists would be laughing their arses off at the Forza fans.
 
+1,000,000

SPOT on.....although it should be expected on a site dedicated to GT. I kind of hoped they would be more mature reactions to criticism, but it I would wager those who defend GT5 to the hilt are in the 15-25 age range and hence don't like anyone criticising what they're "into". I'm not saying ALL are 15-25 though and not all 15-25s are immature.

The thing is that this is a GT discussion site and forum, discussion meaning that opinions of all kinds will be put out there good and bad, some people seem to think that it's just a place for fanboys to meet and spit the dummy out the pram if anyone dares criticise the holy trinity of GT, PD and Kaz on their beloved site.
 
I think this argument will lead to the start of WW3. There are clearly two sides and neither will ever accept the others opinion as correct.

I am happy with the update. Heres what I think is the main differentiator in this debate.

This game even before spec 2.0 is a masterpiece in my opinion. The younger crowd might not agree, as some people have grown up in the 360/PS3 age. I for one grew up playing SNES, Sega Genesis, and N64. Just the fact that I can get in a car and drive around the ring at night in the rain and feel the vibration in my wheel when the right front tire clips an apex bumper, simply amazes me. That is why this game will always be satisfying for me, because video games have come a long way in my lifetime. To me they just keep getting better, like this update.

However to some that have been raised in the wifi age, it is a different culture. You expect more because everything around us is advancing so quickly. Expectations for technology companies are much higher now than ever before. I guess this is just progress, but rather than expecting it, I tend to marvel at it. When I was 12 playing mariokart, the thought of racing someone in another room didn't even cross our minds. Now I can play with people in Japan with a car Ive never seen on a track I might never visit. This is why I appreciate any updates to the game, because I am one of the few that is satisfied with the original product.
 
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Just to be fair, people do complain about people complaining. Like a domino effect. Just saying...

Me on the other hand, I'm happy about the standard cockpits. The option to make the AI tougher kinda works. However, it is noted that spec 2 has bugs and glitches. I encounter some in the main menu, and the graphic tearing is still occuring. If Kaz can update the spec 2 update with bug fixes, It will really make me a happy camper.

I can't wait for the DLC to arrive. I saw that my subaru 2010 has a RM now. The new go kart track looks stunning. I'll be more than happy to pay for the full package. But for now, I'm hoping the folks back at PD can fix some bugs.
 
I'd prefer a game that doesn't need updates a year down the line to add in content that should have been there from the start, I expect that from every game developer and publisher, not just PD and Sony. I don't want to spend £45 on a game in November 2010 and still not be playing the finished article in October 2011, the GT5 is the only game I can remember where people are actually arguing the case to make this acceptable, if it was Forza on the Xbox (of which I own neither by the way) the same apologists would be laughing their arses off at the Forza fans.
Well, you have no experience with Forza so you don't know how broken the first three games were. Or how adamantly they were defended, even here. ;) Just go to the Forza section and bring up a list of flaws of the previous games, and see how warm a welcome you get.

You complainers need to drop the whole "this game should have been finished at launch" yadda yadda blah blah, as if you can complain the past into being changed. I think it's high time you guys realize there are NO time machines - at least that anyone knows of, and so the past is fixed, unchanging, and out of reach from even the most epic complaining. We GOT what we GOT. If you are still complaining about that after nearly a YEAR, I have to say being your neighbor can't be too pleasant a prospect.

No one is saying that this is fine and can be the norm in gaming from now on. Quit acting like anyone is saying this. Quit acting like anyone was asking for GT5 in its current form with all the unexpected strangeness.

Assuming some of you were here since the launch of GT4, try to REMEMBER over the past couple of years the ever growing outcry from the fans demanding for Polyphony to release GT5 in whatever the heck form it was in so we could play it! Most of us didn't want to wait till 2012 to play it. I sure the heck didn't.

I was nervous about GT PSP being worked on in the very midst of GT5's development, afraid that the team might get sidetracked in ways that would hurt the game. I was nervous about 3D being forced on the game as standard for all versions, not as an option which could be installed. I don't have any idea if these are big reasons why GT5 is as odd as it is or not, but I have to think that if the team had four years of straight, uninterrupted and unmeddled time to work on GT5, it would be a better game.

You bring up damage. But you completely ignore how many of the fans complained about it, to the point that nearly a year's worth of work on it was scrapped, and we have what we have now.

People forget that the region suffered an incredible disaster that clobbered their country, made electricity rationed for weeks if not months, and this caused Kazunori to move the entire freaking studio hundreds of miles to the south! You guys don't know how lucky you are that we got anything of a Spec II this year.

Complaining is one thing, but arguing without understanding and immaturity are another. For example...

you people gotta learn to respect other peoples point of view, just cuz you dont agree doesnt mean its wrong
I can honestly say I dont think anybody thought it was gonna be GT6, what a stupid comment.
Need I say more? :lol:

Is it too much to ask people to act halfway decent and intelligent? I think many here would grant that I have half a brain. ;) And I've been known to throw water balloons on more than a few occasions, but I try and have a sense of humor too. And perspective.

People ask why Polyphony or SONY don't have a presence here. Well, look at some of the thoughtless poo that gets flung around this place.

One more thing. There IS a disappointment thread. If you insist on being disappointed, why are you in this one?
 
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Well, you have no experience with Forza so you don't know how broken the first three games were. Or how adamantly they were defended, even here. ;) Just go to the Forza section and bring up a list of flaws of the previous games, and see how warm a welcome you get.

Why would I do that? I don't play Forza and never have so it's no concern to me how broken the games were (if they were) and have no idea what the flaws were.

You complainers need to drop the whole "this game should have been finished at launch" yadda yadda blah blah, as if you can complain the past into being changed. I think it's high time you guys realize there are NO time machines - at least that anyone knows of, and so the past is fixed, unchanging, and out of reach from even the most epic complaining. We GOT what we GOT. If you are still complaining about that after a YEAR, I have to say being your neighbor can't be too pleasant a prospect.

The fact remains that it should have been finished and whether you like it or not people can and will complain until the game actually feels complete. We got what we got, it wasn't good enough, PD have been trying to fix it for a year bit by tiny bit. Obviously Kazunori Yamauchi feels the same about the game or he wouldn't be bothering his arse trying to do anything about it. I'd put money on it that after a year he's still cursing Sony for making him release it unfinished.

No one is saying that this is fine and can be the norm in gaming from now on. Quit acting like anyone is saying this. Quit acting like anyone was asking for GT5 in its current form with all the unexpected strangeness.

I've seen plenty of people say this on here from the very first day GT5 was launched, so no I'm not making it up. In fact there's been numerous threads praising each update like there's been a whole host of new content thrown our way by PD instead of the fact that it's simply stuff the didn't have/weren't allowed the time to include, some people have come to accept that GT5 as a game has been getting drip-fed to us over the course of a year and are happy about that.

Assuming some of you were here since the launch of GT4, try to REMEMBER over the past couple of years the ever growing outcry from the fans demanding for Polyphonyto release GT5 in whatever the heck for it was in so we could play it! Most of us didn't want to wait till 2012 to play it. I sure the heck didn't.

No I wasn't here back then but I can imagine there were plenty of people getting anxious for GT5's release but I'd say that had a lot to do with the amount of time it was taking rather than just impatience, 3 years is a long time to wait for a game sequel never mind the 5 it took.

I was nervous about GT PSP being worked on in the very midst of GT5's development, afraid that the team might get sidetracked in ways that would hurt the game. I was nervous about 3D being forced on the game as standard for all versions, not as an option which could be installed. I don't have any idea if these are big reasons why GT5 is as odd as it is or not, but I have to think that if the team had four years of straight, uninterrupted and unmeddled time to work on GT5, it would be a better game.

But that's not our concern, our issue is that we want to buy a quality finished product and it's the developers job to produce just that. The ifs, buts and maybes would be completely non-existent if the game lived up to its own hype (hype created by PD and Sony by the way), talking about GT PSP and 3D compatibility is just throwing in possible excuses that PD could use.

You bring up damage. But you completely ignore how many of the fans complained about it, to the point that nearly a year's worth of work on it was scrapped, and we have what we have now.

Fans complained because PD or specifically Kazunori Yamauchi were telling us how spectacular the damage modelling was going to be before the games launch and how the cars would suffer mechanical damage, when people actually saw it a lot of eyebrows were raised. It's ok at best but they shouldn't hype up something so much then fail to deliver.

People forget that the region suffered an incredible disaster that clobbered their country, made electricity rationed for weeks if not months, and this caused Kazunori to move the entire freaking studio hundreds of miles to the south! You guys don't know how lucky you are that we got anything of a Spec II this year.

So we're lucky we got a few features that could have/should have been in the game anyway? Hold on, I'll just get started on my thank you letter to PD :lol:

The Japanese earthquake and tsunami were horrific but PD were putting out seasonal events 2 or 3 weeks later, it didn't impact Polyphony Digital as a company as much as people believe, the evidence is there. In fact it was reported that people were returning to work in Tokyo a few days later.

Complaining is one thing, but arguing without understanding and immaturity are another. For example...



Need I say more? :lol:

Is it too much to ask people to act halfway decent and intelligent? I think many here would grant that I have half a brain. ;) And I've been known to throw water balloons on more than a few occasions, but I try and have a sense of humor too. And perspective.

I'm sure you'll find some decency and intelligence in my posts somewhere ;)

People ask why Polyphony or SONY don't have a presence here. Well, look at some of the thoughtless poo that gets flung around this place.

They don't have a presence here because:

1. It's not an official GT site.

2. They probably don't want to hear peoples complaints and dissatisfaction with their products and sure as hell don't want to answer them.

3. They can't really hold an impartial opinion towards their own game so it would be pointless.



One more thing. There IS a disappointment thread. If you insist on being disappointed, why are you in this one?

Sorry I was totally unaware that people are not allowed to give opinions other than good ones on threads that are not labelled "disappointment" I was thinking this was an open forum to discuss GT5, silly me :)
 
But, PD should monitor these forums. They can get a much better idea of what we want and like/dislike than if they just use twitter.
 
I'm very happy with what PD has done with GT5 since launch. I know of no other game (apart from GT5: Prologue) which instead of just fixing bugs, adds all new features, free cars, improved the UI, AI, loading times and so on.

The most awesomestestestest thing is so far it has all been free. From the same developers who very rarely go home, and usually sleep under their desks. How can you say they aren't committed - making games isn't getting any easier with advances in technology.
Gone are the days when you could whip one up pretty quickly (i remember when i was younger, re-designing the backgrounds for a golf game on the Atari - pixel by pixel. Ditto with the SimCity 2000 Urban Renewal Kit - you could create your own buildings from scratch, again pixel by pixel). Takes a lot more work these days...

People who complain about free stuff should really sit back and re-evaluate their lives...

Great job PD, and you still have all my support, and that of my Gran Turismo site. :)
 
The internet is full of spoiled people.



Personally, I find the amount of updates and developer support that GT5 has gotten to be well above and beyond anything I've seen for any other game.
 
Sure, they could maybe have done more with spec 2, but as said before, we knew what we were gonna get. Kaz also stated a year ago that the launch was just the beginning & that GT5 was going to evolve. It's doing just that. Do people really expect the perfect game in one major update?

I'm pretty much satisfied with both the game and this last update. I just cannot understand how can PD be so obtuse. In fact, what was really needed, sort of "A-Spec 2.0" would have been extremely simple to include and would have been, also, the only possible update which would have given an "extra life" to the game. A-spec started poor from the scratch and really needed an improvement. And I just don't understand why they didn't, when it would have been way more simple than other (less useful) things they included in the update. If they just gave me another bundle of brand new races/events, and SPA, I woulda been happy as a child. And please, please, please, no more GT-R. I just will not stand another single Nissan.
 
You can't please everybody, some will be happy, others will be disappointed, that's life. This is the modern age though where every thing is "want want want, need need need" I'll admit some stuff in the Spec 2.0 patch could have been better, as well as the DLC content, but I'm not whining about it(there is a difference between stating your opinion and just whining) overall I'm impressed, is it perfect? No. But its close and with the money and fan support/feedback PD will gain from the upcoming DLC, I have no doubts will have more "interesting" updates and DLC in the not to distant future. Oh and for the record, say what you want about Spec 2.0, but it was free and it was quite a substantial update, just be glad we didn't have to pay for it..
 
I'd prefer a game that doesn't need updates a year down the line to add in content that should have been there from the start, I expect that from every game developer and publisher, not just PD and Sony. I don't want to spend £45 on a game in November 2010 and still not be playing the finished article in October 2011, the GT5 is the only game I can remember where people are actually arguing the case to make this acceptable, if it was Forza on the Xbox (of which I own neither by the way) the same apologists would be laughing their arses off at the Forza fans.

All the updates to the game has been great. There was no need for them to do this update and just go ahead with the new game development. Which is pretty common these days except DLC which gets planned even before the game is released. DLC are simply to make more money. They decide what to sell as retail and what DLC to add very early in dev stage. Forza4 for example has a season pass of 30$ for 4 DLC I believe, buying it individually it will cost more.
 
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He is right about that complaining was one of the things that led to Spec 2.0. Complaining is a form of feedback. I'm studying business and a thing that one of the professors taught us is that complaints are oppurtunities.

But I agree, it's annoying :D

There's a difference between complaining and constructive criticism. Complaining is (basically what goes on here half the time) for example, "wtf i wanted a lamborghini and they give us these crappy touring cars". While on the other hand, with constructive criticism would be more like this, " I like the new touring cars but it would be nice if PD could have done something else" or something along those lines. :)
 
Tenacious you always use that same post any time some one utters the word Forza...do you have it saved or something. Let's get it straight for everyone GT is not something without flaws and GT5 shows that...so let's just get real and be fair to every racing sim here.
 
He is right about that complaining was one of the things that led to Spec 2.0. Complaining is a form of feedback. I'm studying business and a thing that one of the professors taught us is that complaints are oppurtunities.

But I agree, it's annoying :D

I'm from economics, and you guys from business have no idea of how it works :P :P :P
 
GT5 isnt perfect but I have yet to play a game that is spec 2 is free and fixes my biggest complaint the onlynegative I see is more stupid GTR cars I love variaty GT5 has tones of it keep it random and different
 
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