PD should just ditch GT league and make more mission races.

[baldgye]

Given the success of Gran Turismo over the past 20 years, I think PD's more than shown they know how to make a racing game.

What they need to do is get a bigger team and potentially outsource some things like modeling. This way they can focus more on gameplay, driving physics, and overall content.

Idk about anyone else, but I think the rendering techniques/lighting and the models they build give GT a look that's quite different to AC, PCars or Forza. Not sure they would retain that if that work was outsourced... imo they need better management more than out sourcing

 

[Factor41]

There is a race every twenty minutes.

Sometimes I want to race now, not in 20 minutes.

Sometimes I don't want to have to qualify or start from the back of a field full of people who would rather take me out than concede a place. Sometimes I just want to work through a series of races, with a theme or some kind of structure that's different to me picking a track and a car.

What League gives us is different to Custom and as it grows, that will increase. It's like having someone saying, "Yeah you could race your GT3 McLaren at Maggiore again, but how about trying this circuit instead. Your opponents will be N600, but I bet you a 40% bonus you can't do it in an N400."

That's the sort of thing that makes me drive and learn all of the tracks and drive more of the cars. Like the Rainmasters series on GT6 - that was something I'd never have set up as a custom race, but was actually quite entertaining.

Sometimes GT League is exactly what I want.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Sometimes GT League is exactly what I want.

Great. And that's fine.

But why should all the people that want to race other humans get so litte attention witha game that is focused on the online component?

That's my point.

 

[Sander 001]

Thanks for the info. By the way, any idea why the Huracan is blocked from the Midship Challenge? I can't choose to drive it. It's listed in the opponent listing though.

I think in the description it says rear wheel drive for the midship races and the Hurricane is 4wd

 

[Factor41]

Great. And that's fine.

But why should all the people that want to race other humans get so litte attention witha game that is focused on the online component?

That's my point.

I think PD are playing a numbers game. During the beta there was a limited pool of players so races were spaced out. Since the launch, the races have become more frequent as uptake has increased because there's a big enough pool of players to have a selection of events to choose from and still get a decently matched group to race against. You can see at peak times you'll get a smaller DR spread than at midnight because the pool of players is bigger. I suspect that if all of the people played online all of the time, we'd already have races starting every 10 mins with a choice of 5-6 daily races instead of the current 3.

It'll be interesting to see how that develops over time; if people are choosing to race online, the choice and frequency will increase as copies continue to sell. If people choose to play offline, the daily race choices will remain the same and/or decrease in frequency and that will be the indicator of the success of PD's vision.

An important consideration from your perspective should be how many people are now swayed into buying GT Sport because of the upgraded and expanded offline mode, then decide to try and continue with online.

 

[Northstar]

There is a race every twenty minutes.

I highly doubt there is a race fitting my exact desires every 20 minutes online. Compare that to single player where I can set up any race I want at any time I want.

 

[MatskiMonk]

The point of AI is to replace/replicate the human experience. Since the tech exists to have humans as opponents, why rely on the AI for any other reason that to give you someone easy to beat?

Because AI can, in theory, deliver a repeatable rewarding experience for those players that don't require beating another human to feel like they've done well - and it can do it, totally independent of relative skill level, which means it can do it for every single person that buys the game, not a tiny percentage of them

The fact the AI isn't I enough to deliver on that promise is what lets GT down, but since human opponents do not deliver on that promise either, both scenarios are still viable.

edit: I'd also add, that a good AI system is likely to be fundamental to any good automatic penalty system. edit 2: ... and ranking system.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Your opponents will be N600, but I bet you a 40% bonus you can't do it in an N400."

You also get a higher payout reward in custom races the harder you make a race against higher level opponents and faster cars. Basically just about everything that is offered in gt league was already in the game under the custom race mode with the exception that PD did not script the race for you and tell you you won a meaningless trophy and gained no more progression than you had before within the game.

 

[Joey D]

You also get a higher payout reward in custom races the harder you make a race against higher level opponents and faster cars. Basically just about everything that is offered in gt league was already in the game under the custom race mode with the exception that PD did not script the race for you and tell you you won a meaningless trophy and gained no more progression than you had before within the game.

Custom races didn't feel like much of a game. They felt random, uninteresting, and reminiscent of the arcade mode in previous GT titles.

Even if they are essentially the same thing, having a single player campaign makes it feel more like a complete game and has something to offer those who have zero desire to race online.

 

[shaunus]

Custom races didn't feel like much of a game. They felt random, uninteresting, and reminiscent of the arcade mode in previous GT titles.

Even if they are essentially the same thing, having a single player campaign makes it feel more like a complete game and has something to offer those who have zero desire to race online.

Funny, I came here to say something very much like this and there it is!

Not everyone likes a sandbox.. make your own race kits and arcade mode just are boring somehow. I end up not bothering. I bought a game, if I want to make one I will go to work. Id be thrilled with a player pool of races made by other people mind you.

I'm not plowing through GT League at full speed, but it is a nice something to dip into if I feel like online racing is too annoying etc.

 

[GTP_Remo]

Seriously the GT league in this game sucks donkey nards. Why on earth did people complain about mission challenge when it offered competitive racing that didn't involve racing through a grid of mismatched cars with two fast ones up front?
Examples Boxer spirit. I thought I would be racing Porsches VS Subarus Vs tuned 86's , but nope PD tosses in a samba bus and bone stock cars.
The single player update basically consists of picking the fastest car or tunning your car to win. I LITERALLY fell asleep playing this crap last night

If you are so bored with it, stop using cars that easily out pace the field. This is YOUR fault. If it says use a N400 go grab a stock N200 or N300 if you are too scared to use the N200.

 

[Veinz]

Not enough depth in GT League for me to interested, imho it's a complete waste of space.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I highly doubt there is a race fitting my exact desires every 20 minutes online. Compare that to single player where I can set up any race I want at any time I want.

Then I guess there is nothing more for them to add in order to make you happy.

Which brings us back on topic...

"PD should just ditch GT league and make more mission races."

Because AI can, in theory, deliver a repeatable rewarding experience for those players that don't require beating another human to feel like they've done well - and it can do it, totally independent of relative skill level, which means it can do it for every single person that buys the game, not a tiny percentage of them.

Sure, IN THEORY, but that is never the case. I don't know of a game that does that. If it's out there, why are we all discussing this one instead of playing that one?

Everyone is going to have their opinion on what racer had the best AI, and then someone will come along and say it has the worst. There's no winning on this forum with the AI. Either they are stupid because they crash (like real drivers) or they rubber band (GT6) which is unrealistic, or the don't rubber band and they either too slow, or too fast. Holy heck, is this the forum the Gran Turismo or is this a Goldie Locks convention?

It's like the people that want to play alone HATE those of us who want to play with others! Single player has custom races, it has this preset league, it has missions, it has the license tests.

Online gets three random daily races in order to progress the achievements. That's all....that isn't enough.

All I am saying is that if they set up an event, have an offline AND an online version. We all win.

 

[Northstar]

Then I guess there is nothing more for them to add in order to make you happy.

Yes and no. Yes the tools are there already, but they don’t provide you with the sense of progression that traditional career modes give.

Which brings us back on topic...

"PD should just ditch GT league and make more mission races.”

The problem with that logic is you could also use it to argue against additions to Sport mode.

It's like the people that want to play alone HATE those of us who want to play with others!

You seem to be the only person arguing for removing features. I’ll let you figure out who hates who.

Online gets three random daily races in order to progress the achievements. That's all....that isn't enough.

Did they remove the FIA stuff and custom lobbies?

All I am saying is that if they set up an event, have an offline AND an online version. We all win.

That certainly isn’t how you are coming across.

 

[shaunus]

It's like the people that want to play alone HATE those of us who want to play with others! Single player has custom races, it has this preset league, it has missions, it has the license tests.

Online gets three random daily races in order to progress the achievements. That's all....that isn't enough.

Of course more varied and interesting online would be good (though developers have to be very careful not to spread the players too thin, it is easy to end up with too many lobbies/modes and everyone feels like the games are empty), but you cannot be serious in the bolded part.. the vast majority of snark on forums is from online racers essentially calling offline players noobs who cant handle proper racing.

 

[KingFrog]

I took the GT League as an excuse to drive the RX-7 in as many events as humanly possible. I got a 60% bonus for one of the events, don't recall which one.

The last two midship races are seemingly impossible to win w/o tuning your car to the max, so buyer beware. The lead AI car is easy to catch up to, then super hard to pass, then once you do he'll immediately drop back to 3 seconds and then come storming back to your tail. Thankfully he isn't overly aggressive but its annoying for 8 laps.


Jerome

A good chunk of the races are impossible to win with anything but a faster/ tuned car.. The Second boxer spirt places a Porshe in the back and on the last lap it will catch up to you . the only way to win is by blocking the car/ or picking another Porsche. no amount of skill is going to compensate for that cars incredible straight-line speed on the last lap. Thats' not rubber banding, that's just Pd making the car ramp it up to 200% on the last lap.

If you are so bored with it, stop using cars that easily out pace the field. This is YOUR fault. If it says use a N400 go grab a stock N200 or N300 if you are too scared to use the N200.

Maybe because I don't want to race a freaking civic against an STI? Maybe because I don't want to race a Miata against an NSX? whats so BAD about wanting to race against a field of contemporary vehicles? Stop telling me im making it bad for myself when its bad in every way imaginable. Ima go play drive club, at least Evo knows how to balance a grid of cars and doesn't have me racing a civic type R against an AMG GT.

 

[Falcon787B]

Let's not even go into the internal logic of the OP - 'let's ditch a mode barely a week after it's been released that lots of fans wanted, helps boost out the actually very small amount of offline content in this full-price game, that I don't personally enjoy' - I think that's been done to death.

And I really don't think the 'oh offline players HATE online players!!!1' argument holds water either - what offline players get angry about is the increasing trend in AAA gaming to tie offline single player to online multiplayer, or in lots of cases - like Titanfall and indeed GT Sport basically on release - have next to no single-player content at all in favour of making the game exclusively online. Which just doesn't work as a value proposition for a full-price game. But with EA and others trying to push the 'games as service' model (ew), understandably people who enjoy playing games single-player are getting annoyed. It's not directed at online players though - ultimately, you do you.

As for me? I'm someone who's played every single GT game, 1 through Sport. And here's how important career mode/GT Mode is to me - it's a big reason I rank 2, 3 and 4 as the best games in the franchise, and equally a big reason why I rank 6 as possibly the worst. I was upset with how they butchered the career mode and made it into a forced linear procession, with the endurance races at the end of it all reduced to 12 and 24 minute sprint races. I remember when the 'beginner' enduro race in GT2 took about 45 minutes to complete even in a relatively fast car - maybe showing my age here, but, eh

The lack of career mode is why I didn't buy GT Sport originally. Now it's back in, I got it - but still only in a Black Friday discount. I still don't think there's anywhere near enough content in the game for full-price, personally, but maybe with the online modes it becomes better value. But regardless, I was delighted that a proper GT League exists in the game.

Unfortunately, the issue with GT League at present is very much the same as the rest of the game; pretty good, shame there's not more of it.

I actually think it's a better progression than GT6. At least it makes some sense, there's a nice variety of tracks, and you aren't XP grinding or forced down a linear path of events. And what I've played so far is good; nice variety of events in Beginner and Amateur Leagues. I like the fact proper endurance races are back - 30 and 60-lap races are much more like it, way better than the farcical 10-20 minute sprint races that still tried to feature dynamic weather and day-night cycles that went by in the blink of an eye. So props there. And so far, unlike the OP, I've been playing in the spirit of old GT games - finding a close race and matching my car to the AI. And generally I've had a lot of fun. The derpy AI piling off the track when I'm gearing up for a proper battle can get a bit annoying, but otherwise, decent. 👍

But really, TWO championships in Professional and Endurance Leagues? Repeating championships by the Amateur League? In a game already fairly malnourished on content? Hmmm. Not a good look when dropping a much hyped new feature.

I'm sure it'll be easy to add new championships in, and it's not just more that will be needed - it's more variety. There's whole classes of car currently not represented in GT League - unless you go full overkill, I can't really see anywhere for Grp.3 and Grp.4 cars to compete? Even stuff like the Like The Wind challenge of old, a GT World Championship, GT All-Stars, etc. Stuff that was there in previous games, and I don't think will be too hard to add in - repeating championships by the second tier, especially fairly dull one-make ones, isn't a good look.

Oh, but there's a championship for non-race cars that cost over 10 MILLION credits? What's that, three cars in the entire game, basically? Okay, great. /sarcasm

On a core level I'm really enjoying GT Sport single-player. It's the usual high level of polish and execution, the cars and tracks look, drive and for the first time SOUND great, and the AI acting more human and actually driving more aggressively is nice - I just wish they were a bit more, y'know, actually competent at driving. But gdi there needs to be MORE of GT League. Not less, as the OP is suggesting.

Anyway, rant over. This is making me want to break out my old copy of GT2 again...where's my starter car thread?!

 

[KingFrog]

Which just doesn't work as a value proposition for a full-price game.

Oh the ignorance of that statement. Why aren't online only or online-focused games worth full price? In what world is it logical to say a 10-hour game. like the last of us. gives anyone more value as a game than a game like overwatch which can easily give you hundreds if not thousands of hours wort of gameplay? Just for the record I think overwatch is boring and think TLOU is one of the best games ever made, but to say online games aren't " worth 60$". That just shows how biased some SP only people are. This is coming from a person who prefers SP gaming to online gaming. I cant see why people find the same generic formula exiting and fun after 20 years, especial when its been getting progressively worst. I STILL play GranTurismo 1/2 on a near daily basis, the racing is actually fun in that game. I don't have to buy a POS car to have fun against Corvettes and NSX's, I can just buy a Corvette and have a decent challenge with close racing, even if the AI is on rails.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Honestly, I think the people who will get the most out of GT League are those who decide to buy the game a year or so from now. By that time, GT League will no doubt be bigger and there should be more cars and tracks in the game to increase variety. People just starting out in the game will have more incentive to do it than those who have already had the game day one and got their cars and credits through other means.

I know if I ever get the game, GT League will be the first thing I work on completing, not the so-called “Campaign” mode.

 

[KingFrog]

Honestly, I think the people who will get the most out of GT League are those who decide to buy the game a year or so from now. By that time, GT League will no doubt be bigger and there should be more cars and tracks in the game to increase variety. People just starting out in the game will have more incentive to do it than those who have already had the game day one and got their cars and credits through other means.

I know if I ever get the game, GT League will be the first thing I work on completing, not the so-called “Campaign” mode.

If you ever get the game, you will instantly realize how good campaign mode is and abhore that abomination that is GT league. Im going to go play GT2 on my vita now, first gen RX-7 VS other cool cars that actually keep pace.

 

[Factor41]

... developers have to be very careful not to spread the players too thin

This exactly. The more people play online, the more choice and the higher frequency of the events. However, people shouldn't assume that binning off the League will simply move players online. I play online in the Daily races and FIA events, but if there wasn't an offline mode, I doubt I'd keep coming back at all. Currently, for example, I'm tired, i've been out all day, I've had whisky, and I'm having a quick blast on the League's Midship race at Interlagos. You don't want me to be in an online race any more than I do!

 

[Falcon787B]

Why aren't online only or online-focused games worth full price?

In my opinion, they aren't worth it as a full price value proposition because there's too many factors affecting how much fun you'll have with the game.

Will the servers be consistently populated with enough players to offer a challenge, especially a year or so down the line? And if so, will they have decent players who are actually fun to compete against? And when the servers are shut down, how much of the game will be left to play? At least most of GT6's single-player and local multiplayer will still be playable once the servers are shut down, as is the case with GT5 too. And even if the above factors are true, there's generally a lack of structure in online-only that generally you get a better feel for with at least some single-player content.

For me, it's nice to know that there's a guaranteed amount of content I'll be able to get out of a game. And your logic of getting 'hundreds if not thousands' of hours out of online games is kinda flawed too - again, if the servers are dead (I believe Evolve suffered from a low player base very early on) or shut down, that will limit how much you play the game. Whereas even a game like Portal with a 90-120 minute single player mode can be replayed infinite amount of times, as well as the bonus challenges and puzzles.

In short; online to me relies on far too many factors outside of the game's control, or indeed yours, to be worth full price. Especially considering the extra costs one now has to factor in for PS Plus or Xbox Live.

In my opinion.

 

[Falcon787B]

Honestly, I think the people who will get the most out of GT League are those who decide to buy the game a year or so from now. By that time, GT League will no doubt be bigger and there should be more cars and tracks in the game to increase variety. People just starting out in the game will have more incentive to do it than those who have already had the game day one and got their cars and credits through other means.

I know if I ever get the game, GT League will be the first thing I work on completing, not the so-called “Campaign” mode.

Absolutely agree. I already waited until GT League was a thing before buying the game, and it still doesn't feel like the game is anywhere close to having the finished level of content in it. This is definitely a game that is worth waiting around for before getting - which doesn't exactly paint a good picture of PD, given they've worked on this for four years or so and seemingly released what looks to be an unfinished game, but I appreciate that these constant updates and new content being added are all free and not walled off in DLC packs or lootboxes. :shudders:

 

[Northstar]

Oh the ignorance of that statement. Why aren't online only or online-focused games worth full price? In what world is it logical to say a 10-hour game. like the last of us. gives anyone more value as a game than a game like overwatch which can easily give you hundreds if not thousands of hours wort of gameplay? Just for the record I think overwatch is boring and think TLOU is one of the best games ever made, but to say online games aren't " worth 60$". That just shows how biased some SP only people are.

It's a subjective opinion, of course it's biased! It's also far from being ignorant.

People put differing values on different things based on their interests. It's kind of like how I think spending hundreds of dollars on a steering wheel is a waste but for other people they wouldn't have it any other way. Neither of us would be wrong in that case as we have made decisions that fit our interests and what we are willing to spend on said interests.

 

[Falcon787B]

It's a subjective opinion, of course it's biased! It's also far from being ignorant.

People put differing values on different things based on their interests. It's kind of like how I think spending hundreds of dollars on a steering wheel is a waste but for other people they wouldn't have it any other way. Neither of us would be wrong in that case as we have made decisions that fit our interests and what we are willing to spend on said interests.

Amen, pal.

 

[KingFrog]

In my opinion, they aren't worth it as a full price value proposition because there's too many factors affecting how much fun you'll have with the game.

Will the servers be consistently populated with enough players to offer a challenge, especially a year or so down the line? And if so, will they have decent players who are actually fun to compete against? And when the servers are shut down, how much of the game will be left to play? At least most of GT6's single-player and local multiplayer will still be playable once the servers are shut down, as is the case with GT5 too. And even if the above factors are true, there's generally a lack of structure in online-only that generally you get a better feel for with at least some single-player content.

For me, it's nice to know that there's a guaranteed amount of content I'll be able to get out of a game. And your logic of getting 'hundreds if not thousands' of hours out of online games is kinda flawed too - again, if the servers are dead (I believe Evolve suffered from a low player base very early on) or shut down, that will limit how much you play the game. Whereas even a game like Portal with a 90-120 minute single player mode can be replayed infinite amount of times, as well as the bonus challenges and puzzles.

In short; online to me relies on far too many factors outside of the game's control, or indeed yours, to be worth full price. Especially considering the extra costs one now has to factor in for PS Plus or Xbox Live.

In my opinion.

Your argument is flawed because you are assuming you don't know a games server population, It would be your own damn fault for buying evolve after the servers died. I could always say you don't know a games SP content, or its quality. I could say I don't like SP games because it depends on to many variables such as if devs will patch any bugs on disk, if the game's story has a satisfactory ending that doesn't make my time and effort feel cheated, if y save won't get corrupted halfway through, if the games actually any good etc. Plenty of good SP games have been shipped in a semi-broken state and you would have to take your chance and HOPE the devs patch the bugs. Example, Drive club, the devs supported it, but we could get mass effect Andromeda which was ditched in a buggy state. Stop being bias.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

If you ever get the game, you will instantly realize how good campaign mode is and abhore that abomination that is GT league. Im going to go play GT2 on my vita now, first gen RX-7 VS other cool cars that actually keep pace.

We don’t know what the game will be like a year from now, other than what’s been announced to come. (I’m hoping they release an up to date version of the game by then with all of the current content already on the disc, like GT5 XL.) They could make adjustments to the AI later on.

I’d just rather do actual events than a huge series of driving tests and missions.

 

[Northstar]

I could always say you don't know a games SP content, or its quality.

Thanks to the internet that is easily taken care of. I can look up a game and in seconds flat see how long the single player campaign takes and whether or not people think it's even worthwhile. It's a tad harder with multiplayer games since you can just as easily look up whether or not the gameplay is good, but it's not as clear whether or not there is anyone actually playing.

Stop being bias.

You should follow your own advice on this one. Plus, again, it's a subjective opinion, it's impossible for it to not be biased.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

In my opinion, they aren't worth it as a full price value proposition because there's too many factors affecting how much fun you'll have with the game.

So actually considering the value of today's currency when figured in the purchasing of entertainment how many hours of entertainment do feel that you need to receive at full retail price to have received full value for the dollars spent?

Before you pop off some number think about what other forms of entertainment you spend your income on and how many hours you receive for the same dollars. How many weeks will full price buy you for your cable tv? How many movies first run movies will that money buy you? How many shots of alcohol at the local bar will you get for those funds?

So how many hours out of GTS should you realistically expect to be a good entertainment VALUE?

 

[Northstar]

Before you pop off some number think about what other forms of entertainment you spend your income on and how many hours you receive for the same dollars.

It doesn't matter anyways. At the end of the day you either think it's worth the money or you don't. Simple as that, there is no need to justify either answer as they are both correct.