PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Redneckchef]

I'm a C/S driver at moment, was at B/S for a bit but a few mistakes in tight races fixed that. So my races aren't worth a hell of a lot of points. I lost 1200 DR and 15 SR in 1 race at the mountain thanks to a penalty disaster on lap 1. Guy bounced off the wall and swerved constantly through the start, I'm holding back, but on the esses he blows it and skids, bounces off the wall, then into me as I swerve to get around, then into the wall again before ghosting. YAY! instant 5 second penalty for me?!?!? I was in 5th till his disaster, as it is the start I am now dropped into 12th, and as I unghost two people are going side by side into the chase, and so one plows me off, hey, 3 second penalty added for fun when I rejoin after a walk in the grass with no reset. I am now dead last and waaaay behind. All in one lap. I hold on and finish trying to take advantage of people crashing, but despite catching people I am stuck behind a swerving guy who simply cuts off any attempted pass. He's not fast, but just fast enough that I can't aim a spot to get by him, so I finish last. Frustrated and angry that I have few points to start with and that crap happens. So as I was grumpy I though of something new.

I love the bitching and venting, that's the point of this thread. But after last night's slaughter at Bathurst I feel like we've got to come up with an idea of what or how we want the penalty system operating. It seems that the more bitching with ideas, eventually PD listen some, so what do we want? I've got a few ideas:
-Different penalty grades for walled tracks or walled sections of tracks. Due to the tight nature there needs to be a way to grade penalties differently as the slightest contact gets you a 5 second for someone on a wall bump
-If a car is off the track before getting hit the penalty doesn't go to the hitting driver if their car was moving to avoid or the penalty is much less. This would be a simple steering input check, right?
-Fix the unghosting situation. I unghosted at one point, off the racing line after a 5 second penalty for hitting a spinning car, and was instantly given another 5 second for crashing as there was a car coming behind me way off the line and way faster who slammed me as I came solid. Can't they use a radar issue or speed differential to look at this? So if I am more than 40kph or mph off the speed I don't unghost as a pack of cars bear down on me. Actually happens a bit at the lower ranks.
-If the car runs off after tapping you from behind, no penalty for you unless you were over a certain speed differential or waaay out of a braking zone. Stop the Momoz crap. Brake checking is annoying, but a real part of racing. If you are unsure of your braking zones you shouldn't be constantly killed by penalties for slowing earlier to stay in control.
-Some sort of speed differential or braking check issue to determine fault in accidents. Push a bit on the nastier dive bombs or the bash passing. IF you blow someone off the track wildly so bad that they have to get reset then you get reset behind their position. Could lead to some sort of continued bashing, but the 5 seconds isn't working when I lose way more trying to get going again after some bastard thinks plowing me through the wall is a good way to pass.

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this, but maybe we can keep shouting loud enough to get PD to listen. Currently it is nuts. My total for 3 Bathurst races this week, race 1: start 12th, finish 6th out of 16 no penalties, no clean race because of a bump draft, 6 B drivers in lobby, gain 110 DR, 2 SR. race 2: massacre listed above, start 7th, disasters abound, 2 penalties, finish 15th of 16 when asshat runs off at last corner, lose 1200 DR, 15 SR. 2 B drivers in lobby, rest Cs and Ds. race 3: start 9th, finish 7th of 16, 1 0.5 penalty for cutting hell corner to avoid unstable car, down SR for a bump draft. Gain 106 DR, 3SR, lobby had 7 B drivers, 1 A and us Cs and Ds. Seriously?

 

[Famine]

Seriously?

You lose DR to every driver who beats you (more if their DR is worse than yours, less if yours is worse than theirs), and you gain DR from every driver you beat (more if their DR is better than yours, less if yours is better than theirs). It doesn't matter where you finish, so much as who you finish behind/ahead of - and it definitely doesn't matter where you start or, beyond where they finish, who is in the lobby.

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

I'm going back and forth between top players streaming the FIA race at Sarthe now and I've seen on multiple occasions where a driver gets punted off doing nothing wrong and then getting time penalties. It is pathetic on PDs part that the best of the best can't even avoid unfair penalties.

 

[Redneckchef]

Yes, I know the basics of the points system, but it still seems to be more of a punishment when I only get 100 DR for beating drivers ranked ahead of me but end up losing 1000 or more because I got shafted by the penalty system in a bad lobby. Surely beating guys who outranked me and finishing over my ranking should provide decent benefit. I mentioned the total because of how costly the penalty problems are when they occur. It almost makes it not worth it for me to chance a shot at a high finish in a poor lobby because the risks are so great. Better to struggle for middle positions in an overpowered lobby than try for wins against unstable lower ranked drivers

 

[ARTAsean]

Yes, I know the basics of the points system, but it still seems to be more of a punishment when I only get 100 DR for beating drivers ranked ahead of me but end up losing 1000 or more because I got shafted by the penalty system in a bad lobby. Surely beating guys who outranked me and finishing over my ranking should provide decent benefit. I mentioned the total because of how costly the penalty problems are when they occur. It almost makes it not worth it for me to chance a shot at a high finish in a poor lobby because the risks are so great. Better to struggle for middle positions in an overpowered lobby than try for wins against unstable lower ranked drivers

Lol just wait till you’re A+ and you get 100DR for winning a race and you lose 1000 for a top5 finish.

 

[Redneckchef]

@ARTAsean I wish I would have that problem but I'm honest enough to admit I'm probably a mid B driver at the best. That's part of the frustration, trying to do the best I've got with my abilities and the time I can put in, but facing the struggle because I am pretty much always going to be in low powered lobbies.
The main point of my big post was to see if we can really come up with the parameters of real fixes for the system. Exactly what limits and changes would tidy up the biggest problem penalty issues?

 

[Anthony Exton]

After playing this game for some time I have come to agree with lots of frustrated players about the way the penalty system punishes the innocent driver and rewards bad driving .
I had, like most made my way up to a good sr and dr only to get involved with some idiotik players who quite obviously cant seem to understand the way in which a race should be run . But instead barge and push which gives you the dreaded sr and dr loss , the enjoyment of trying to overtake has been taken away also as all the slower driver has to do is nudge you off and you will still get sr loss and end up in a wall then gain a 5 second penalty.
It has ended up being an arcade game now with little enjoyment and progress for the drivers that would like to progress in the online rankings..
It's a rant I know but it is frustrating .
Think I will move to assetto corsa or even xbox now

 

[Redneckchef]

Yeah, and it goes again and again. Really good race at Alsace, only problem was my mistakes preventing me from getting a huge DR boost, but my mistakes that cost no one else are fine, I can own that. Going back to Bathurst it's the same again. Good solid race, managed to dodge to swervin mervins until I was past them, then a clean race, good points both DR and SR. Get to the next race, same idiot who nearly took me out again spins at Forrest, I slide into them taking evasive, they hit wall they were already going to hit, yay! 5 seconds, next lap I pass them when they spin, he counters back and bounces off me ( in the middle of the track) and nips wall, so I get another 3 seconds, and move to dead last. FFS!!!!! this time 1400 point DR hit and another 16 SR. The player wasn't malicious, just unstable and erratic, but the rest of us are getting pounded in points every time they show up, shouldn't there be some sort of alarm bells ringing if a layer is involved in lots of incidents in every race, no matter who is penalized?
I'm going to have to take a break to go back to something else till I get my nerve and patience back. I'm still C but knowing that means I started under 10,000 DR means I've lost over 25% of my DR points in roughly 2 races this weekend due to mainly 2 incidents that were not my fault and unavoidable unless I avoid racing entirely. C'mon PD, let's see some logic to the system.

 

[Anthony Exton]

Yeah, and it goes again and again. Really good race at Alsace, only problem was my mistakes preventing me from getting a huge DR boost, but my mistakes that cost no one else are fine, I can own that. Going back to Bathurst it's the same again. Good solid race, managed to dodge to swervin mervins until I was past them, then a clean race, good points both DR and SR. Get to the next race, same idiot who nearly took me out again spins at Forrest, I slide into them taking evasive, they hit wall they were already going to hit, yay! 5 seconds, next lap I pass them when they spin, he counters back and bounces off me ( in the middle of the track) and nips wall, so I get another 3 seconds, and move to dead last. FFS!!!!! this time 1400 point DR hit and another 16 SR. The player wasn't malicious, just unstable and erratic, but the rest of us are getting pounded in points every time they show up, shouldn't there be some sort of alarm bells ringing if a layer is involved in lots of incidents in every race, no matter who is penalized?
I'm going to have to take a break to go back to something else till I get my nerve and patience back. I'm still C but knowing that means I started under 10,000 DR means I've lost over 25% of my DR points in roughly 2 races this weekend due to mainly 2 incidents that were not my fault and unavoidable unless I avoid racing entirely. C'mon PD, let's see some logic to the system.

Yeah, and it goes again and again. Really good race at Alsace, only problem was my mistakes preventing me from getting a huge DR boost, but my mistakes that cost no one else are fine, I can own that. Going back to Bathurst it's the same again. Good solid race, managed to dodge to swervin mervins until I was past them, then a clean race, good points both DR and SR. Get to the next race, same idiot who nearly took me out again spins at Forrest, I slide into them taking evasive, they hit wall they were already going to hit, yay! 5 seconds, next lap I pass them when they spin, he counters back and bounces off me ( in the middle of the track) and nips wall, so I get another 3 seconds, and move to dead last. FFS!!!!! this time 1400 point DR hit and another 16 SR. The player wasn't malicious, just unstable and erratic, but the rest of us are getting pounded in points every time they show up, shouldn't there be some sort of alarm bells ringing if a layer is involved in lots of incidents in every race, no matter who is penalized?
I'm going to have to take a break to go back to something else till I get my nerve and patience back. I'm still C but knowing that means I started under 10,000 DR means I've lost over 25% of my DR points in roughly 2 races this weekend due to mainly 2 incidents that were not my fault and unavoidable unless I avoid racing entirely. C'mon PD, let's see some logic to the system.

It has gotten very silly in the way the drivers that want to join the higher ranks are getting mixed with the idiots that don't care and are just in the game to bounce around and cause others point loss and frustration

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I've got a few ideas:
-Different penalty grades for walled tracks or walled sections of tracks. Due to the tight nature there needs to be a way to grade penalties differently as the slightest contact gets you a 5 second for someone on a wall bump

Getting bumped from behind, then the car behind goes off or taps a wall is completely wrong. The game now assumes everything is a brake check or rather the one that slows down (the one that bumps) is the victim, which does not make any sense.

It's like that to stop blocking which it does accomplish mostly. Drivers that use dirty last second blocking tactics often get hit which is when the system works as intended (with SR Down). However if they manage to get themselves punted off by swerving last second in the braking zone, it fails again.

However how do you distinguish between blocking and bumping. Every car and driver takes corners differently. The burden should be on the car behind instead of the one in front as it is now. Braking for an accident is not blocking or brake checking, yet the game doesn't look at anything else but contact, who slows, who goes off.

-If a car is off the track before getting hit the penalty doesn't go to the hitting driver if their car was moving to avoid or the penalty is much less. This would be a simple steering input check, right?

Failing to avoid a car that comes from off track should be SR Down at most for both, or rather reset the car that comes from off track. If you can't merge back in safely get reset. Seems fair. Still give both cars that failed to avoid each other SR Down or it will be gamed.

-Fix the unghosting situation. I unghosted at one point, off the racing line after a 5 second penalty for hitting a spinning car, and was instantly given another 5 second for crashing as there was a car coming behind me way off the line and way faster who slammed me as I came solid. Can't they use a radar issue or speed differential to look at this? So if I am more than 40kph or mph off the speed I don't unghost as a pack of cars bear down on me. Actually happens a bit at the lower ranks.

Remove the penalty zones, add penalties on add the end, problem solved. There will be far fewer incidents that way.

-If the car runs off after tapping you from behind, no penalty for you unless you were over a certain speed differential or waaay out of a braking zone. Stop the Momoz crap. Brake checking is annoying, but a real part of racing. If you are unsure of your braking zones you shouldn't be constantly killed by penalties for slowing earlier to stay in control.

Yup needs to be fixed.

-Some sort of speed differential or braking check issue to determine fault in accidents. Push a bit on the nastier dive bombs or the bash passing. IF you blow someone off the track wildly so bad that they have to get reset then you get reset behind their position. Could lead to some sort of continued bashing, but the 5 seconds isn't working when I lose way more trying to get going again after some bastard thinks plowing me through the wall is a good way to pass.

How about reset the victim after the corner and the instigator before the corner. Often you get reset right on top of each other when the instigator goes off as well. Of course right now the system doesn't even look at who was ahead, first car that goes off is the victim, which could as well be the punter. And then you have to look at brake checks again, since people will slam on the brakes early to get a free reset after the corner while getting rid of the pursuer.

The problem is every automatic system can be games, even live stewards can be fooled. Plus many situations are too complex to simply say who was to blame. To avoid a screw up in front you might be found guilty of a brake check or get a shortcut penalty.

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this, but maybe we can keep shouting loud enough to get PD to listen. Currently it is nuts. My total for 3 Bathurst races this week, race 1: start 12th, finish 6th out of 16 no penalties, no clean race because of a bump draft, 6 B drivers in lobby, gain 110 DR, 2 SR. race 2: massacre listed above, start 7th, disasters abound, 2 penalties, finish 15th of 16 when asshat runs off at last corner, lose 1200 DR, 15 SR. 2 B drivers in lobby, rest Cs and Ds. race 3: start 9th, finish 7th of 16, 1 0.5 penalty for cutting hell corner to avoid unstable car, down SR for a bump draft. Gain 106 DR, 3SR, lobby had 7 B drivers, 1 A and us Cs and Ds. Seriously?

Blame assignment doesn't work, penalties create more incidents. It's time to get rid of both. A statistical approach of nr of incidents (contacts, offs, spins, resets, wall touches) over time over position changes should be far more reliable and stable to determine SR.

To stop punts I firmly believe resetting cars to before the corner will be far more effective. That will stop any possible gains. Every car has a speed limit above which they can't possibly make the corner anymore. Exceed that in the braking zone, get reset.If you exceed that by a bump from behind, reset the bumper as well etc. It might lead to some comedy situations where a whole pinball train has to do a corner over, but I'm sure people will quickly grow tired of getting reset and be more careful. Plus a real brake checker will not get punted over the speed limit, thus no reset and simply another incident on their history.

 

[O604]

Read an interesting article on Engadget yesterday on the history of Cheating in video games. It's long. But it does make a good connection between cheating and the history of cheating in video game culture. Worth reading. Made me think a bit more about how hard it must be to merge video games rules with real life sporting rules.

- https://www.engadget.com/2019/06/15/a-brief-history-of-cheating-at-video-games

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Read an interesting article on Engadget yesterday on the history of Cheating in video games. It's long. But it does make a good connection between cheating and the history of cheating in video game culture. Worth reading. Made me think a bit more about how hard it must be to merge video games rules with real life sporting rules.

- https://www.engadget.com/2019/06/15/a-brief-history-of-cheating-at-video-games

There's cheating for harmless fun and there's cheating for profit and you don't do the latter.

They forgot cheating to troll players, I wouldn't categorize that as harmless fun. The T1 dive bomber that quits when he gets to the penalty zone being the prime example.

I've been guilty of 'cheating' to troll out of boredom. We went to a newbie zone a few times in Everquest to make simple enemies overpowered by giving them high level enchanted weapons and lots of stat enhancing magic buffs. Followed by a memory wipe to send them on the way to unsuspecting players while using invisibility to watch the fun unfold. It was mostly people power leveling alt characters at the time, but their high level gear still wasn't up to par to mobs with even higher level conjured items and speed, damage and health buffs. Harmless fun perhaps, until a real new player suddenly got smacked dead in a couple hits losing all his items :/ (I had an alt cleric on standby to resurrect them, didn't want to be a total 🤬)

The difference with GT Sport is, you might think it's harmless to 'go to town' once in a while. But a lot of people only have time for perhaps a few races a week. If those get ruined by 'harmless' fun, they won't be back.

 

[Dmac72]

The problem is not just the penalty system, it is driving standards.
Any change needs to be one that improves the approach of players (I’m reluctant to refer to them as racers or drivers).
That’s why I’m in the zero tolerance camp.

 

[CBH]

If Ghosting is not the answer due to the penalty system and the way that other players that play dirty, and I know you guy's don't like Ghosting, well PD needs to get rid of it for good. So replace Daily Races with Time Trials like in GT6, and they where bloody fun sharing tunes on that forum.

If PD does not do anything about the penalty system and the way that players play dirty in online races for GT7, well we are going to have a GT7 forum called PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!.

 

[Redneckchef]

Failing to avoid a car that comes from off track should be SR Down at most for both, or rather reset the car that comes from off track. If you can't merge back in safely get reset. Seems fair. Still give both cars that failed to avoid each other SR Down or it will be gamed.

Yeah, I was pushing the idea of when the ghosting system either doesn't kick in or it is the snap around issue. Like on Bathurst or Suzuka where I see it most, car in front gets off the edge, slows and suddenly snaps back around blocking the track. Not when some one has barreled off and driving back on in somewhat control.

How about reset the victim after the corner and the instigator before the corner. Often you get reset right on top of each other when the instigator goes off as well. Of course right now the system doesn't even look at who was ahead, first car that goes off is the victim, which could as well be the punter. And then you have to look at brake checks again, since people will slam on the brakes early to get a free reset after the corner while getting rid of the pursuer.

This is the kind of thing I was thinking about and hoping people had good ideas. I really like this one. I know we'll have ways to game whatever system is in place but currently there seem to be some pretty glaring issues where poor driving is rewarded when it ruins other people's races. I'm going to make my fair share of mistakes, I think most of us all have our days and get annoyed with the penalties but accept it. Hoping to keep good ideas or parameters hashed out for ways to stop the most blatant and abusive gaming of the system. I don't want to give up, I love the challenge of proving myself against others and it has drastically improved my race craft and car control. However it is damned frustrating when others are rewarded for BS driving and it gets tempting to try the dark side. I think the most damaging is we want this online stuff to succeed, if only to ensure there is plenty of options for the next game as well. Make sure there is quality offline and online stuff.
I wondered if tire wear penalties would be a possibility for the really blatant rammers? Hell, i don't know, just digging for options. Open to any ideas that look like they'll work.

 

[Dorofint]

After playing this game for some time I have come to agree with lots of frustrated players about the way the penalty system punishes the innocent driver and rewards bad driving .
I had, like most made my way up to a good sr and dr only to get involved with some idiotik players who quite obviously cant seem to understand the way in which a race should be run . But instead barge and push which gives you the dreaded sr and dr loss , the enjoyment of trying to overtake has been taken away also as all the slower driver has to do is nudge you off and you will still get sr loss and end up in a wall then gain a 5 second penalty.
It has ended up being an arcade game now with little enjoyment and progress for the drivers that would like to progress in the online rankings..
It's a rant I know but it is frustrating .
Think I will move to assetto corsa or even xbox now

Right. I've been comparing GT Sport with burnout for a long time. In both games you can get many advantages if you crash the opponents as skillfully as possible. GT Sport does not live up to its claim as a real driving simulator in this respect. Exploiting all the errors in the system has become a game in the game. In the game, simulation players now meet arcade players and cheaters who simply enjoy destroying the games of others. This in many cases destroys the races for simulation players. I'm one of those little-time players Sven mentioned. It's just frustrating when in the little time I have left to play my races are destroyed by other idiots. I do not want to list here what happened in my few races this week. But it is simply catastrophic in which direction the game evolves.
I often look at the profiles of particularly bad players in kudosprime. The extreme fluctuations in both DR and SR are immediately noticeable. It is certainly possible to recognize these profiles with simple static methods and put them in their own lobbies. I would also like to watch such games. It would certainly be very entertaining if dirty drivers are suddenly surrounded by dirty drivers and everyone is trying to cheat everyone. Then at least these players would not constantly destroy the races of the other players in normal races. Not even a change to the penalty system is necessary for this. Recognize these players based on their profiles and adjust the matchmaking. That would definitely improve the quality of the normal races.

 

[Anthony Exton]

Right. I've been comparing GT Sport with burnout for a long time. In both games you can get many advantages if you crash the opponents as skillfully as possible. GT Sport does not live up to its claim as a real driving simulator in this respect. Exploiting all the errors in the system has become a game in the game. In the game, simulation players now meet arcade players and cheaters who simply enjoy destroying the games of others. This in many cases destroys the races for simulation players. I'm one of those little-time players Sven mentioned. It's just frustrating when in the little time I have left to play my races are destroyed by other idiots. I do not want to list here what happened in my few races this week. But it is simply catastrophic in which direction the game evolves.
I often look at the profiles of particularly bad players in kudosprime. The extreme fluctuations in both DR and SR are immediately noticeable. It is certainly possible to recognize these profiles with simple static methods and put them in their own lobbies. I would also like to watch such games. It would certainly be very entertaining if dirty drivers are suddenly surrounded by dirty drivers and everyone is trying to cheat everyone. Then at least these players would not constantly destroy the races of the other players in normal races. Not even a change to the penalty system is necessary for this. Recognize these players based on their profiles and adjust the matchmaking. That would definitely improve the quality of the normal races.

Again this evening , same old story with being penalised for errors made by other . I can accept if I make a mistake then I get whipped but for having a penalty given for another players disregard for breaking and track limits then it gets ridiculous. They cant have a true simulator when the rules are favoured to the ones that like to play arcade and prefer to bounce off of everybody to get to the front . Braking and track space Is key to driving not using whatever is available to bounce off to get ahead .
It's really getting frustrating and pd should read these comments made by the players that want a proper simulator . I believe that if you make your way to a high ranked spot then the points shouldn't be removed but maybe just a penalty within the race or time penalty at the end. This will give the better driver more players to race against of similar skill and better understanding of a true simulator thus giving a better experience . NOT A ******* ARCADE BASH AROUND FFS !!!!

 

[Dorofint]

Again this evening , same old story with being penalised for errors made by other . I can accept if I make a mistake then I get whipped but for having a penalty given for another players disregard for breaking and track limits then it gets ridiculous. They cant have a true simulator when the rules are favoured to the ones that like to play arcade and prefer to bounce off of everybody to get to the front . Braking and track space Is key to driving not using whatever is available to bounce off to get ahead .
It's really getting frustrating and pd should read these comments made by the players that want a proper simulator . I believe that if you make your way to a high ranked spot then the points shouldn't be removed but maybe just a penalty within the race or time penalty at the end. This will give the better driver more players to race against of similar skill and better understanding of a true simulator thus giving a better experience . NOT A ******* ARCADE BASH AROUND FFS !!!!

Everything right what you write. But I do not believe that PD reacts to our complaints and possible solutions. We are a much too small group compared to the arcade players and therefore have too little influence. I remember it well when the rules were tightened or real vehicle damage was tried. There was always a ****storm against it. You could not race properly anymore. Racing is rubbing. Something like that takes fun out of the race. Such complaints were read in many forums and would also go directly to PD. As a result, the rules were quickly relaxed again and damage disabled.
GTS is played by different groups with different preferences. PD has decided for the arcade faction what you can see the current rules well. We have to accept this or switch to other games that are more responsive to our needs. However, there is also the danger that the arcade faction will discover these games for themselves and demand their own rules.
One has to remember that many arcade players have an ambivalent relationship to racing games. On the one hand, the game should look realistic so that they have the impression that they are a great car and racing drivers like Lewis Hamilton. But on the other hand, they demand a simplified gameplay that gives them action, fast successes and does not frustrate them with too much detail.
If you know that, then you understand why rather unrealistic acrade games like Onrush or Grip: Combat Racing have barely sold. These games give the arcade faction the gameplay they want. But they do not look realistic. The feeling of being a great car and racing driver does not arise. That's why these players prefer games that look more realistic. But then they meet players who want realistic gameplay and rules. This results in conflicts. If the developers of the games then do not really know for which target group their game should be there is chaos and frustration. That's exactly what happened with GTS.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

... GTS is played by different groups with different preferences. PD has decided for the arcade faction what you can see the current rules well. We have to accept this or switch to other games that are more responsive to our needs. ...

If this was the case, I'd call the SM section a sanctimonious farce showing off some certain videos as an entry premise and then supporting the exact opposite.
I can't deny though you have a point there.

 

[Dmac72]

Everything right what you write. But I do not believe that PD reacts to our complaints and possible solutions. We are a much too small group compared to the arcade players and therefore have too little influence. I remember it well when the rules were tightened or real vehicle damage was tried. There was always a ****storm against it. You could not race properly anymore. Racing is rubbing. Something like that takes fun out of the race. Such complaints were read in many forums and would also go directly to PD. As a result, the rules were quickly relaxed again and damage disabled.
GTS is played by different groups with different preferences. PD has decided for the arcade faction what you can see the current rules well. We have to accept this or switch to other games that are more responsive to our needs. However, there is also the danger that the arcade faction will discover these games for themselves and demand their own rules.
One has to remember that many arcade players have an ambivalent relationship to racing games. On the one hand, the game should look realistic so that they have the impression that they are a great car and racing drivers like Lewis Hamilton. But on the other hand, they demand a simplified gameplay that gives them action, fast successes and does not frustrate them with too much detail.
If you know that, then you understand why rather unrealistic acrade games like Onrush or Grip: Combat Racing have barely sold. These games give the arcade faction the gameplay they want. But they do not look realistic. The feeling of being a great car and racing driver does not arise. That's why these players prefer games that look more realistic. But then they meet players who want realistic gameplay and rules. This results in conflicts. If the developers of the games then do not really know for which target group their game should be there is chaos and frustration. That's exactly what happened with GTS.

I have no doubt that PD want to target the realistic sim type player, but they don’t want to discourage those that want arcade style gameplay either.
They seem, IMO, to be heading more towards the arcade style in the belief that customer / brand loyalty will keep the sim fans onboard.
It is that direction of travel which makes sport mode of no interest at this time and is nudging me towards Pcars2 on pc. Purely for a more comprehensive career mode and better vr options.

 

[drebin4real]

There is a 56 pages of penalties s*cking and Polyphony Digital does nothing about it.

 

[CBH]

There is a 56 pages of penalties s*cking and Polyphony Digital does nothing about it.

It can be another 156 pages and still nothing, because PD does not give a Dam about online Racing.

 

[Dmac72]

It can be another 156 pages and still nothing, because PD does not give a Dam about online Racing.

I think the priority for them appears to be the world tour and monetising e-sports.

 

[Dorofint]

If this was the case, I'd call the SM section a sanctimonious farce showing off some certain videos as an entry premise and then supporting the exact opposite.
I can't deny though you have a point there.

Yes, that's what you can call it. His claim as a real driving simulator the game has never completely fulfilled. The physics are very good. But that alone does not make a driving simulator. A real simulation would include realistic rules, vehicle damage, different weather conditions, good AI in singleplayer and much more. At the beginning, the buyers could certify the developers a good will to fulfill their own claims. The game has been developed and expanded over time in some areas. But now it shows that in many areas, nothing has ever been improved. We mostly complain about the penalty system because it is the part that bothers us the most. But where is the weather system? Rain tires are available in the game from the beginning. But there was never the appropriate weather to use them too. I suspect that different weather was originally planned as an update. But they do not seem to have done this. Just like a well-functioning penalty system. Basically, GTS is a game in which the developers have failed at their own claim. You can discuss the reasons here. Some things the developers just will not have done and others will have been changed by criticism of the players. Ultimately, a game has come out that makes only a few players really happy. Some things are really great, others are frustrating and I see a lot of potential that was not used. We can only hope that everything gets better in GT7. But I have my doubts. The conflict between the claims of arcade and simulation players is unresolved and the development of a good penalty system takes a lot of time and effort. As it stands, developers' resources are limited or used for other things. Therefore, I have little hope that GT7 meets the requirements of the real driving simulator. We should rate the statement real driving simulator as what it ultimately is: pure marketing. The game was called a real driving simulator to give arcade players the impression of being great car and racing drivers. I already described that in my previous post. A real simulator has never been the entire GT series. There have always been many compromises and limitations to satisfy arcade players. That will probably remain so in the future.

 

[Notorious 22]

If Ghosting is not the answer due to the penalty system and the way that other players that play dirty, and I know you guy's don't like Ghosting, well PD needs to get rid of it for good. So replace Daily Races with Time Trials like in GT6, and they where bloody fun sharing tunes on that forum.

If PD does not do anything about the penalty system and the way that players play dirty in online races for GT7, well we are going to have a GT7 forum called PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!.

I'm done with the daily races...I start out a day with an "S" Sportsmanship ranking and after the first race my fall from "Grace" begins...First of all, running over a curb or even slipping off into the grass etc...shouldn't constitute a 5 second penalty(Shame on PS), secondly and most importantly, certain "driver's" (I use that term loosely), for some reason cannot be near another driver without bashing into them, not even on a straightaway. Usually without getting a penalty. They ruin every race they're in, without fail. But what really torques me the most is I get penalized 95% of the time for their screw-up or bashing. They never slow down for a corner if you're in front of them and you can never pass them cleanly because they veer into you to slow you down or stop you. They block you if you try to ride behind them waiting on them to get off-line...it's a disgrace to racing. If it were a legitimate "league", they would be banned. It's such a major problem and I can't for the life of me figure out why Sony allows it to continue and why Sony can't get their penalty algorithm corrected...Dozens of "first corner mayhem" where clowns bash and crash into a pile and I get penalized for driving through the mess. Help us Sony!!!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Imo the extra 5 SR loss for quitting a race should be removed as well. By now I know from experience which races are simply not worth to continue, mainly thanks to the penalty system stimulating bad behavior. You already lose the opportunity to gain any SR from the rest of the track, why another 5 loss simply to bow out of the chaos and qualify or race the AI instead.

First I thought quitting was indeed bad sportmanship, yet currently I'm of the opinion that it's the only way to show Sony their matchmaking and penalty system sucks. The more people quit races, the sooner someone might actually start looking into why only 60% complete races nowadays. There are different 'quitters' of course. There are those that simply cause chaos then quit when they reach the penalty zone, which is a long frigging time to grief players on N24. And there are those that get an unfair penalty or punted into the sand and quit not willing to get put behind or in the middle of chaos again at the next penalty zone.

@Notorious 22 You can back out of races without loss while the race is loading. Suspend GTS to cancel the race loading or log out of psn. There were plenty times yesterday when I should have done that instead of trying to race in between the known trouble makers with 1 to 3 bars.

 

[CBH]

I can't for the life of me figure out why Sony allows it to continue and why Sony can't get their penalty algorithm corrected...Dozens of "first corner mayhem" where clowns bash and crash into a pile and I get penalized for driving through the mess.

Because it's in the too hard basket for Sony to do anything about the way that the players play this game, and the way they got the penalty system wrong.

It is about time that Sony got on the right Planet about these things that are happening in Sport Mode, but to me Sony are many light years away from being on the right Planet about these things.

 

[Dorofint]

I'm done with the daily races...I start out a day with an "S" Sportsmanship ranking and after the first race my fall from "Grace" begins...First of all, running over a curb or even slipping off into the grass etc...shouldn't constitute a 5 second penalty(Shame on PS), secondly and most importantly, certain "driver's" (I use that term loosely), for some reason cannot be near another driver without bashing into them, not even on a straightaway. Usually without getting a penalty. They ruin every race they're in, without fail. But what really torques me the most is I get penalized 95% of the time for their screw-up or bashing. They never slow down for a corner if you're in front of them and you can never pass them cleanly because they veer into you to slow you down or stop you. They block you if you try to ride behind them waiting on them to get off-line...it's a disgrace to racing. If it were a legitimate "league", they would be banned. It's such a major problem and I can't for the life of me figure out why Sony allows it to continue and why Sony can't get their penalty algorithm corrected...Dozens of "first corner mayhem" where clowns bash and crash into a pile and I get penalized for driving through the mess. Help us Sony!!!

It's the same with me. As long as the game allows this style of play and even rewarded, nothing will change. I was already called a sissy and loser when I complained about the behavior of such drivers. These drivers feel 100% right. Basically, they are from their perspective. They achieved good results through this behavior and I was punished. From this perspective, they actually did everything right and I did not. The sporty view, they probably just do not have. Racecraft is unlikely to be there. They see GTS as a game and use the given rules as it gives them the biggest advantage. These are the different views between gamer and simulation player. Only the developers can solve this conflict. Either they ensure that the FIA rules are monitored and enforced or they loosen these rules even more and officially declare GTS as arcade racing game. As it is now it makes no sense in any case.

 

[Anthony Exton]

It's the same with me. As long as the game allows this style of play and even rewarded, nothing will change. I was already called a sissy and loser when I complained about the behavior of such drivers. These drivers feel 100% right. Basically, they are from their perspective. They achieved good results through this behavior and I was punished. From this perspective, they actually did everything right and I did not. The sporty view, they probably just do not have. Racecraft is unlikely to be there. They see GTS as a game and use the given rules as it gives them the biggest advantage. These are the different views between gamer and simulation player. Only the developers can solve this conflict. Either they ensure that the FIA rules are monitored and enforced or they loosen these rules even more and officially declare GTS as arcade racing game. As it is now it makes no sense in any case.

I think in general, Sony needs to remove the "driving simulator " from any of the write ups or adverts and call it an in between arcade and mayhem game. It may then be true to what kind of game it has become. Is a shame that it has come to the point that people are not happy with the outcome for a game that was eagerly waited on for so long .
As much as we air our views and opinions im sure that Sony are thinking **** the minority, the muppets will buy it.

 

[gtpierre]

It's the same with me. As long as the game allows this style of play and even rewarded, nothing will change. I was already called a sissy and loser when I complained about the behavior of such drivers. These drivers feel 100% right. Basically, they are from their perspective. They achieved good results through this behavior and I was punished. From this perspective, they actually did everything right and I did not. The sporty view, they probably just do not have. Racecraft is unlikely to be there. They see GTS as a game and use the given rules as it gives them the biggest advantage. These are the different views between gamer and simulation player. Only the developers can solve this conflict. Either they ensure that the FIA rules are monitored and enforced or they loosen these rules even more and officially declare GTS as arcade racing game. As it is now it makes no sense in any case.

This "gamer" mentality problem has been mentioned by someone else here and described sometimes ago. From the moment a mainstream competitive game is open to a broad range of players, it will attracts gamers.
Gamers just want to play and win, and they will call you a whiny sissy if you complain about the way they win.

If you play one of the mainstream FPS war game (I guess it's the same for other kind of games), you will also have people playing "dirty" but not in a way that is punished by the game. Camping/spawn camping/ spawn killing, mobing the weakest players just to score without playing for the team etc...

With FPS the best strategy to get rid of these players or to get rid of this type of behavior is to improve the gameplay/modes.
Games like arma, insurgency (...) made it more difficult or almost impossible to benefit from these types of behavior simply by requiring you to play differently.

For GT sport, various solutions have been proposed on this thread, and many would improve the current state of the situation. PD is ignoring them for some reasons.

As many have said, GT sport has a huge potential. The partnership with FIA has a huge potential. But somehow PD seems to be slow at either understanding what they want to achieve, either realizing what they can achieve.