PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Gareth davies, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. KepleroGT

    KepleroGT

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    I also got a red mark at the end
     
  2. Keith2324

    Keith2324

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    People can't drive with SS tires on dry pavement as it is. The rain/wet tracks are going to be a nightmare. :lol:

    Keith.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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  3. Redneckchef

    Redneckchef

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    @KepleroGT Yeah, got a similar one, but the two spinning cars blocked the track so I couldn't stop and drove off to get by. Bing, 1.5 sec penalty. Still actually don't know how they could figure to fix that, but still flustered as I had a good race today, few mistakes of mine and others, but all basic racing incidents for people of my skill level. Next race two people completely blasted me off the track. Was so far behind after each crash that I only saw them at the end as they were crashing into each other, but not enough to let me get past. I know I wouldn't have been hit if I hadn't made the mistakes that let them get close, but these two had S SR ratings and both had multiple penalties. As much as I hate the idea, maybe we just make it that much harder to get SR, and maybe remove SR issues for minor bumps or ones with no position change. Penalize anything else.
     
  4. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    That's the way I receive most of my penalties. I am not all that fast, but my brake balance is +2 or more for trailbraking and then I get rammed very hard as I do slow in-fast out by the guys with -2 and late-late braking. I know this is a big bump not a nudge because I have a son driving like that. And when we drive in private lobby that happens too.
    Incidentally he has no driving license and all his driving skills comes from racing games, while I have been driving on the street for 37 years and done a fair bit of track days.
     
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  5. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    I hate demolition derby, I love clean racing. But if the game was all ghosted I would stop playing. I could just as well do hotlaps.
     
  6. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

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    Give ghosting ago if you want fair Racing, because if there is No Ghosting when contact happens between 2 cars, otherwise we will be still talking about the penalty system on here until the sun expand and destroy earth.
    If you want Fair Racing in a online racing game with other players, Ghosting is the answer and nothing else is going to work.
     
  7. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

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    Delete.
     
  8. Anthony Exton

    Anthony Exton

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    The penalty system doesn't work to to aid a good experience. When you go off the track but not gain advantage by doing so , that should be plenty enough, but they game decides to give you a time penalty on top of lost time . That in my opinion is ridiculous.
    Same goes for the constant loss of points for tbe drivers that really don't know how to drive in the game using the controls. Barging is a total cheats way of ruining another players game. The game needs a complete re think
     
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  9. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    You keep saying that. You seem to be imune to any other opinion. In my world there is no racing at all when everyone are ghosting. It's apparent that there is in yours. But your solution would make the game worthless to me. I try to race clean always and I will rather live with the dive-bombers, the straight line nudges, the people bumping me and then deliberately run off to give me penalties than racing a game with all ghosting where there is no defence or planned passing at all.
     
  10. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    Yep, the penalty system does nothing about this kinda stuff and see how much chaos it creates.
    [​IMG]
    He does that every race, blue S. No problem as long as you pit manoever cars in such a way they don't go off track.

    The this doesn't get penalized either since he drove off track as well to take the victory. (other car ran out of fuel)
    [​IMG]

    But this gives me a race ruining penalty
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    The penalty system works backwards, but it does get it right with clear punts like a broken clock twice a day. Without it races would be even worse. However the way it is now (since almost a year ago) I don't bother with DR anymore and quit more and more races since the penalty zones have been added. I rather go race a bit off line against the AI or play something else in between than have the penalty zone put me back with the idiots that got me the faulty penalties.
     
  11. VFOURMAX1

    VFOURMAX1

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    Another way to look at it is to have clean races then you must have drivers that are in control of their cars. Going off track in a non contact situation is not driving in control and at a pace the circuit demands.

    Adding the extra penalty on top of the loss time is just added incentive to remain in control and on the track.

    Asking for fewer racing incidents (contact) begins with drivers also not over driving their own skills and controllable pace and exceeding the limits the circuit puts into play.
     
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  12. Anthony Exton

    Anthony Exton

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    That is the problem like you say , the more the crap players hit and nudge causing your ranking loss , you will end up in the game around them more in each matching session , I have been in a good ranking a s but it took only a couple of bad racer moves to drop me right back down to d c . As I mentioned before I think the game should reward the drivers that make it to A dr and S sr by allowing them to keep the score giving then the chance to race against similar ranked more compliant racers.
     
  13. Dmac72

    Dmac72

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    This is something many people fail to realise.
    Everyone has their own braking point for each corner.
    There is no right spot. The failure to understand that is what leads to a large proportion of incidents in races and nonsensical accusations of perpetual brake-checking.
     
  14. killerjimbag

    killerjimbag

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    Ghosting,having the ability to drive through someone without any ramifications or penalty enforced. So if you have no talent,like the people that ram you and punt you off the track. Then driving through them will fix it? I race every night in PCars with the same friends. 10 to 16 people. No ghosts,no ramming, no punting. Get some friends and race together! Perhaps you should try AC, or Project Cars 2. Their system is better but not much. It's a video game. No game is perfect. Play it or put it away. No sense bitching about something that won't get fixed.
     
  15. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    The problem is more not to let the bad drivers back into SR.S. It's way too easy to gain SR and if you are fast you only get rewarded with easy races for losing SR. I got rammed a plenty on Monday, SR dropped all the way to 15. Then I qualified and had 4 victories in a row from pole position, back to SR.S.

    Rankings are all mixed up. I've met better racers in DR.B SR.C than in DR.A SR.S. Matchmaking doesn't stand a chance to match people of similar driving style (bumping, rubbing, contact free) and similar pace as long as DR resets, alt accounts, lag punts, purposefully tanking SR and DR and a fault penalty system rewarding aggressive driving while penalizing the victim aren't addressed.

    It's a miracle so many people still try to drive clean! Luckily the majority is awesome, the system is just skewed to give the bad apples way too much power over those trying to race respectful and clean.
     
  16. Dmac72

    Dmac72

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    Had a couple of races today and seriously, WTF is wrong with people? The constant bumping is ridiculous.
    SR, DR, these actually mean nothing. Is the entire purpose of the game to give people pointless online bragging rights or to encourage actual racing?
    SR and DR are worth nothing if people, and I don’t mean you Svenno I’m just responding to a post, bump, barge and game their way to arbitrarily awarded points?Where is the sense of achievement for someone in finishing 12th instead of 13th by pushing others off track?
    One night in Six months where I get to race and I have landed in a world of utter ****wits.
    Rant over. I’m opening the single malt now and heaven help anyone who messes with my races tonight. Lol
     
  17. kemmac

    kemmac

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    ..........................................?
     
  18. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    It's annoying herd mentality. I see it all the time, races can be clean, yet when one driver starts to cause trouble he ignites the room and everyone joins in bumping for position. And yep, it's those DR points that people are so desperate to keep when they get knocked down from their qualifying spot.

    PD should turn the strict penalties back on from last year. Touch a car from behind, 10 sec penalty. It can't be that hard to figure out whether the car in front is on the brakes for no reason on a straight to weed out brake checks. Bump a car from behind in braking zone or corner, penalty. If you don't want a penalty, then don't drive on top of the bumper of the car in front. Plan an overtake instead of pushing the car ahead wide.
     
  19. Flash_Sweden

    Flash_Sweden

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    Copied from the “Daily race-thread”


    Edit: I’m not really a fan of calling the penalty system a piece of ****. In real life, a piece of **** can be useful, which is the opposite of the penalty system.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
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  20. Redneckchef

    Redneckchef

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    I had a fantastic night of racing after a horrendous afternoon. Some things the penalty system won't fix, but it should penalize the person responsible for the blatant punts as much as the victim. I suffered for ages as D/C as I learned to watch for braking points, not hot lap every lap of the race and to be observant of the other drivers, yet many can't be bothered. Been threatened payback by another player who blamed me for getting him a penalty. He had 3 different 5 sec. penalties in a 4 lap race at Suzuka, all well and truly earned but he thinks me trying to hold a steady line instead of swerving out of his way is the poor driving? I did actually swerve to let him past when he dive-bombed me and calmly passed him back when he ran off later. Yet when he blasts me on full send at turn 1 he is 4 seconds ahead by the time I was reset, and going full speed while I was stopped. It was only luck that let me catch him. Maybe the penalty system is always going to be relatively faulty, but what about switching the different rankings, or entering a 3rd category. I agree we need SR harder to improve.

    Got to say it was fantastically awesome to have 2 really clean races last night, lots of close racing and no one even doing basic rubbing. I even blew a braking point and gave the position back and people behind gave us a little room for it. So rare but one of my happiest lobbies as everyone was working on solid racing.
     
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  21. ROCKET JOE

    ROCKET JOE

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    Isn't that a step back in the discussion, Sven ?
    I'm curious whether our mods have asked Kaz yesterday :scared: ...
     
  22. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    It would be, but it worked to clean up races for a while. It would put a quick end to all this bump to pass racing we have now.

    Some minor improvements on last time though. Same rules for everyone in the same room, regardless of SR or DR. Highest SR in the room sets the rules. One of the big issues last time was that lower DR drivers only got half the penalty as higher DR, 5 sec instead of 10 and their time wouldn't start increasing either until much later. The other was simply complaining that bumper to bumper racing was too hard, well don't then :)
     
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  23. ROCKET JOE

    ROCKET JOE

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    :O iirc it's been that exact period more than a year ago when I had my one and only major reset. Back to nowhere on Nürburgring GP. I did not have too many races after that as I for my life don't see why DR / SR is something to grind for. Pulled the plug midway then in disbelief :rolleyes: ! So I might lack long time experience to have a good estimation, I just can't help myself though I don't see a way out in tweaking the existent :sick: ...

    That is a good thing indeed :) !
     
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  24. sundaydriving

    sundaydriving

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    @Sven Jurgens should be on PDs payroll for the amount of testing he does.
     
  25. Dmac72

    Dmac72

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    Why would the highest sr in the room set the rules?
    Surely the rules should just be the rules. They should be constant and consistent.
     
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  26. Donnced

    Donnced

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    Penalty system is completely broken and PD should be made aware of this.

    If you touch car in front of you and touch the wall,the 3sec. penalty always will be for the car in front.
    Also same case if you touch and go wide/cut the curb.

    Proof made by Spanish YouTubers Javifabio and Baronposi



     
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  27. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    I'm all for that, as long as everyone in the same race is treated equally. Currently that's not the case. Same rules / penalties across the board would be best. Then only use SR 'budget' per race to attempt to settle people in their SR tier on a scale from 1 to 999.


    We've been trying since Sainte Croix has been added. That's when the touch from behind, hit a wall crap started. The long right before the straight had that problem nearly every race. It's almost a year later now...

    Here is where it started
    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...still-a-piece-of.378725/page-27#post-12427623
    Play @Baliwa's post from Aug 4 2018
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  28. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

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    Send Sony an Email, and they may forward the Email to Kaz so he can look into it and see what the problem is.
     
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  29. Dorofint

    Dorofint

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    Even if I repeat myself with this statement: The level in the race is getting worse and worse. It is not just the drivers who exploit the flaws in the penalty system and punish other drivers. There are also the many completely over motivated drivers. The drive constantly at 200% and therefore have their car not under control. Even on the straight, they jiggle back and forth. In the curves are constantly with one or more wheels in the grass or on the wall. They cause contact with other cars everywhere, even where you can not overtake at all. Basically, they drive completely unpredictable. This behavior has brought me many accidents and punishments last week. I do not even want to accuse many of them intentionally. But the uncontrolled driving with touches and excursions into the grass completely destroyed the races for me and other clean drivers. I tried to avoid touches and accidents, but because they were so unpredictable, that was often not possible. Then they touch once again the grass or the wall and BAM, 3 or 5 seconds penalty for me. There are now extremely many riders in GT Sport with zero racecraft. Their results are usually better than those of the clean drivers due to the broken penalty system. As a result, they climb their DR and drive often in classes they simply do not belong to because of their behavior and racecraft. Because of all the punishments I fell from BS to CC. With slow races at the end of the field I was able to improve to CS. But in CS are many drivers who do not belong there. They have neither driving skills for DR C nor racecraft SR S, not even for SR C. But they drive there because the broken system punishes clean drivers and does not punish this chaotic and obermotivated drivers.
     
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  30. Dmac72

    Dmac72

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    I’m still favouring this approach to rules and penalties. Stick with it, rather a lengthy post but my reasoning is explained.

    1. First contact – 5 second penalty added at the end of the race and zero credits, win count addition, victory splash screenor any other reward for the race for all participants involved. It is a very harsh penalty for the innocent party but there is just too much doubt about correct apportioning of blame. This is purely intended to ensure clean, fair racing.

    2. Second instance of contact – 10 second penalty added at the end of the race and a warning that any further infringement will lead to disqualification.

    3. Third instance – black flagged. (kicked out of the race).

    4. All players start at DR E, SR E. After 3 consecutive clean races there is an SR increase to the next level. 3 consecutive races with contact you would drop down 1 SR level.

    5. Once up to DR E, SR S you can gain points only in clean races towards a DR increase, which once achieved would be DR D, SR E. You then have to firstly prove you can race cleanly at that level by increasing your SR up to S again, before gaining points towards DR progression can continue.

    6. Track limits should be rigidly enforced. Between the white lines is the track, that’s where the race happens. Crossing that line gets you a time penalty without exception. Time penalties get added at the end of the race or in the pits if you happen to take one.


    The idea behind this is absolutely to enforce clean racing by employing a system which is essentially a licensing process.

    Don’t call it DR E or DR c or DR S+, call it an E license or a C license or an S+ license, which is earned by proving you can race cleanly at that level. It is pretty logical really and the way motorsport actually works.

    There will be times where someone gets clipped by 3 different cars and get black flagged through no fault of their own which is rough on them, but with a method like this it would be very unlikely because you could almost eliminate “dirty” drivers as they would not progress from the lower DR/SR ratings.

    The cream will still rise to the top.

    I personally would probably end up somewhere in the middle enjoying hard, fair racing against players of a similar level.