PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Groundfish]

Agree, possibly PD could average out a few races

Exactly. Time weighted average.

But let’s say your right … A higher level player is matched with a few lower level players. When racing 10 or more individuals - does a few slower racers remove your sense of competition? I don’t think so. If anything, lower level players will get to see what a good example of driving a track is and learn from the driver in front of them instead of having micro battles at every corner. You may actually accelerate more players to the higher tiers instead of thinning out the heard through bad experiences.

It removes my sense of competition and demoralizes them when they are 5-10 seconds slower per lap in some cases.
It’s not accelerating anyone’s development to get beaten five seconds a lap.
What a person needs to develop at the best rate is the appropriate level of challenge.

GT Sports online matching system seems to include a bunch of logic to handle small rooms and should be optimized to pair users regardless of their DR and SR

Huh? I don’t follow this?

I also think it may help other players to know who has a dirty reputation considering I match up with random people all the time, I could adjust my strategy knowing a player may try something dirty instead of being unaware the match before - he wrecked a few cars early and was able to redeem his S-SR by driving the rest of the race clean with no competition.

This is called the SR.

Whatever the purpose for the behavior, it’s ok and shouldn’t be disregarded - it just needs to be separated better

Yes, which starts with the pen system.

seems that when GT Sport launched, the SR Rating was the mechanism to ensure integrity. In reality, it’s turned into a pass/fail system for horrible drivers. The DR system seems to correct the issue for ~10% of drivers, but the SR system is failing the other ~70% of drivers

The average player is B B. The system hadn’t failed them.
70 percent of the playerbase are not serious clean fast people playing it the way you or I do.

An average over 20 races would be much better

Yes. This is the way!


Edit I will say I have often seen D S and C S filled lobbies when exploring the games levels.
It appears these players race as cleanly as they can, from what I can tell.
When I was C S the racing was very very clean.

 

[AwfulDriver]

You may not be looking at the data correctly. The average players is D-DR with an S-SR. They account for ~48% of players in the last 7 days who raced more than 20 races. As I mentioned before ~72% of all players have an S-SR. If B-DR is your golden standard, than ~70% (C+D DR) of drivers are not gaining that experience.

It may be best to consider that if you’re racing at A to S DR you are not experiencing the same thing and don’t see the boundaries being pushed as much. I imagine a lot of people on this forum have put a lot of work to be apart of the community and be up to speed on and off the GTS track. But the majority of players are not having the same experience online.

I can see how the accuracy of the penalty system is a big deal at the higher tiers since the level of control surpasses the limits of the technology but most people are not pushing the limits of the penalty system in the same way.

 

[Groundfish]

I dunno I looked at this...

Right now there’s lots of S players because the pen system was basically turned off for a long time.
Compared to when it was imo far better it’s way way less sensitive now after the update.
They need better scoring also but scoring comes after the contact is detected sr up or down or pen is given.

At any rate the problem right now is the system is too lenient.
I’d like to see shared fault.
Time weighted SR.

It will probably never happen.

 

[AwfulDriver]

Right now there’s lots of S players because the pen system was basically turned off for a long time.
Compared to when it was imo far better it’s way way less sensitive now after the update.
They need better scoring also but scoring comes after the contact is detected sr up or down or pen is given.

When you use stats for 1 day with 20 races - the pool of people you are going to get are playing over 5+ hours a day (15min x 20races) on sunday/monday, not including loading/lobby time. That will be a small amount of people - not many people can commit that much time a day to playing… That is why you see an increase in active* S-B drivers, those players are practicing/playing more and C-D drivers don’t practice 5+ hours as much as let’s say B drivers do.

If you think about it more. The average 5+ hour a day B or C DR players are averaging near S-SR rating. Which helps to show experienced drivers are simply hopping in and out of the S-SR rating and it’s hard for anyone to know who is habitually falling out of S rating even at B-DR races.

At any rate the problem right now is the system is too lenient.
I’d like to see shared fault.
Time weighted SR.

I agree. I hope they look into the issue.

 

[Groundfish]

When you use stats for 1 day with 20 races - the pool of people you are going to get are playing over 5+ hours a day (15min x 20races) on sunday/monday, not including loading/lobby time. That will be a small amount of people - not many people can commit that much time a day to playing… That is why you see an increase in active* S-B drivers, those players are practicing/playing more and C-D drivers don’t practice 5+ hours as much as let’s say B drivers do.

My take isn’t that it’s players that day that did 20 races that day lol.
It’s players who played that day with over twenty races in sport mode overall.
The DR distribution correlates to seven day active as well.
I’m fairly certain this isn’t players doing twenty plus races each day seven days a week lol.

I mean I could be wrong. I mean I didn’t create that page or know how it works or if it’s accurate at all.
Seems like the best info available.
It certainly doesn’t show that the majority of players are D S.
In fact it clearly shows just as I stated as average DR rises so does SR.
As I already explained this is because going faster requires more control.

I’m not sure why I’m even responding to you at this point except it now seems like you’re trolling.
The average player isn’t D S, imo.

It’s as if you’re trying to say that D level players should be guaranteed of clean races when the fact is they are D. They have not built up awareness racecraft speed etc.
Even you put them together at S even careful as they may be there will be errors in judgement.
There will be lack of control.
You are assuming a D driver has more control over the car than they do!
I grant you 70 percent of players may hold D rank but there’s a HUUUUUUUGGGGE number of players with just over 20 races and that’s it.
There’s tons of D that hardly race.
There’s no point in trying to build a theoretical troll framework around a mythical playerbase that doesn’t exist!

 

[ii_Biggles_ii]

I was doubting if there had been any changes since the last time the penalty system was updated but maybe they just didn't tell us.

I posted about this guy who ran me off the road, blocked and tried everything not to let me overtake him in the last race in the Nation's last season and his SR had improved after the changes, don't know why I bookmarked him but glad I did. looks like he having a bit of bother now. You can see where he moved up after the update and in the last week has fallen back where he belongs.

 

[OJBrit]

His first reset in a few days it looks like.

 

[NevilleNobody]

That just tells you how bad the last penalty system was, what WERE they thinking? I called it day 1, said it would be bedlam and it was. Unbelievable he could ever be SRS.

 

[Prostorius]

The last penalty system was the best honestly, ****heads can be found even in S sometimes, instead this penalty system skrew you up for every little mistakes that makes racing fun, is simply horrible and opposite to what racing should be.

 

[Dave_H_87]

Try to learn to make less mistakes.

You're correct in that you will find poor driving at every level possible, all the way up to A+, at least this system gives them something to think about rather than just barge and run.

I stopped playing for three weeks because of the last penalty system, it was ruining any fun I was having in races.
I'm back now and I just ran the most races in a day than I have in months.

I don't mind my mistakes being punished, it's how you learn to get better at anything.

 

[Prostorius]

Thats the wrong assumption, trolling and bad behaviour needs to be punished something that this penalty system doesn't distinguish, actually, gives more penalty to an healthy door to door racing and thats wrong.
It simply ask for a procession of cars, something against what is in the soul of car racing driving.

 

[OJBrit]

I'm sorry but that's not what I have experienced. Since the tweek the racing has been a lot better because people know where they stand. Also those who abused the practical zero penalty with trolling and bad behaviour quickly fell down the SR rank after the change. Is it perfect? No. Is it better than a couple of weeks ago? Yes.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

gives more penalty to an healthy door to door racing and thats wrong.

There's no penalties for side contact now.

 

[JudegeBerry]

They can keep tweaking this how they like. At some point surely they will realise that if they want a system that works then #sharedfault# is the only system that actually works for gamers.

Everything else is complicated, gets worked out and then exploited.

Also turn off ghosting at higher safety rating splits (give people a chance to escape the low SR) and switch on meaningful damage so people learn that crashes mean you don't get to win a race.

Its almost like this has been done somewhere else already......

 

[Prostorius]

Oh can we talk about the BS penalties in catalunya? Penalties on turns that have gravel on the outside, really embarassing, they are even worse than FIA.
This is not racing, this is like throwing a dice on who gets a penalty or not, iRacing is much much better than this overlooked garbage.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

They can keep tweaking this how they like. At some point surely they will realise that if they want a system that works then #sharedfault# is the only system that actually works for gamers.

Everything else is complicated, gets worked out and then exploited.

Also turn off ghosting at higher safety rating splits (give people a chance to escape the low SR) and switch on meaningful damage so people learn that crashes mean you don't get to win a race.

Its almost like this has been done somewhere else already......

All of this sounds as if it has been tried in GTS.
FIA won't allow shared fault so that's out the window.
Damage just gives the trolls another way to end your race. Say it's a SF race, the troll hits you from behind, now you got engine damage and your race is over because pitting to repair takes 30 seconds and you can't ever catch that.
Meanwhile the troll has light front wing damage and can do it again to another one.
I can guarantee that if this was implemented GTS would very soon be a ghost town

Edit: the ghosting should in my opinion remain for cars out of control or coming back on track.

 

[joetoml1n]

The current penalty system is crippling! It’s overly stringent on nose to tail contact and it’s entirely wrong on side to side or T-Bone contact.
Thought I’d do a quick Race B before the FIA Manufacturers race this evening… Thanks to the incident in the video below, I’m now going in with my SR at 85! God knows what kind of lobby I’ll end up in.
Thanks GT, Thanks.



Edit: Because of the utterly abhorrent penalty system, this is the lobby I ended up in.

In what way is that fair for those at either end of the DR scale. Disgusting stuff GT

 

[RacingGrandpa]

The current penalty system is crippling! It’s overly stringent on nose to tail contact and it’s entirely wrong on side to side or T-Bone contact.
Thought I’d do a quick Race B before the FIA Manufacturers race this evening… Thanks to the incident in the video below, I’m now going in with my SR at 85! God knows what kind of lobby I’ll end up in.
Thanks GT, Thanks.

I'm sorry for saying this but didn't you see him coming back across the track? A lift or a small braking and you cou6have gone behind him instead.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I'm sorry for saying this but didn't you see him coming back across the track? A lift or a small braking and you cou6have gone behind him instead.

Tried that before, hindsight is 20/20, game is unpredictable. For all you know you get a brake check penalty from the car behind you or you get hit worse.

Ghosting failed here, penalty is wrong regardless, deducting 14 SR for that is stupid. It looks like it simply went back to before the penalties were turned off. Side to side, ram away, nose involved, the ones surviving get a penalty.

That E/S is even possible shows how bad the rating system is. You start at B, should not be in S within 5 races.

Still a game of survival then rather than racing.

 

[joetoml1n]

I'm sorry for saying this but didn't you see him coming back across the track? A lift or a small braking and you cou6have gone behind him instead.

Yeah I saw it all kicking off ahead. I think you can see that from my steering and braking inputs that I reacted to the carnage. By the time it was clear he was coming sideways across the track I had a split second to decide to chuck the anchors out or stick hard to the inside. Obviously I went for the latter. My reasoning (which had to happen within tenths of a second) was that A, I didn’t feel I would be able to fully stop in time for him to pass in front of me. B, he would likely ghost (which obviously he didn’t in the end). C, If he did make contact with me, it would be at lower speed and with me fully in control of my car. D, the contact would likely be minimal.
I got it mostly right I’d say. Not that it’s relevant, because the aim of the post wasn’t to highlight driving standards, it was the incorrect application of penalties.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I agree you should not be penalised and getting SR down for that. He should have been ghosted.

 

[BaareCZ]

The current penalty system is crippling! It’s overly stringent on nose to tail contact and it’s entirely wrong on side to side or T-Bone contact.
Thought I’d do a quick Race B before the FIA Manufacturers race this evening… Thanks to the incident in the video below, I’m now going in with my SR at 85! God knows what kind of lobby I’ll end up in.
Thanks GT, Thanks.



Edit: Because of the utterly abhorrent penalty system, this is the lobby I ended up in.
View attachment 1009067
In what way is that fair for those at either end of the DR scale. Disgusting stuff GT

You actually saved the WRX from going off. And the guy in the R8 took out 2 cars within 3 seconds and got absolutely nothing for it. I've checked your and his KP profile and guess what. He had trouble staying SR 99 even before PD turned the penalties back on. This is hopeless. The constant tweaking of the penalty system is completely and utterly pointless without redesigning the SR system first. That kind of player should never even be allowed in the same lobby as you.

 

[fisheye]

I've been nicked with penalties where a car goes off the track and comes back on out of control in front of me un-ghosted at between a 45 to 90 degree angle from the direction of traffic many times. Slowing down would result in me getting rear ended by the cars behind me. It's a no win situation when ghosting doesn't work.

 

[OJBrit]

That E/S is even possible shows how bad the rating system is. You start at B, should not be in S within 5 races.

What's even more bemusing is how the E rated driver has 58 points!

 

[Norrin Radd]

Well I tried coming back, but after the constant 1 sec for shoving a player off I don't see much point. If the guy goes off fair enough (even if wrong), hard contact which affects the player again valid even if wrong, but when the contact is so light the player probably didn't even notice it just becomes a joke. Did the manu yesterday and got a few, but today in the 2 race Cs it's been stupid. Last race I should have had 5th, 6th at worst but possibly better and I end up 9th due to a 1 sec pen for absolutely nothing.

 

[Barra333]

That E/S is even possible shows how bad the rating system is. You start at B, should not be in S within 5 races.

It is only possible if you do FIA races. Getting to SR/S within 4 races is actually really good - that would suggest the guy has basically maxed the points available in 4 FIA races (completing the 5th would bump him to D) - complete races, no penalties or SR downs at all. Would even need to be a barrier free pit entry at Fuji.

 

[Groundfish]

After my race last night at Tsukuba it was very obvious that this system is still turrible.
It allows way to much contact.
People can ram and nothing happens no pen given.
They need to adjust it back to how it was at initial release imo.
This is way too permissive

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It is only possible if you do FIA races. Getting to SR/S within 4 races is actually really good - that would suggest the guy has basically maxed the points available in 4 FIA races (completing the 5th would bump him to D) - complete races, no penalties or SR downs at all. Would even need to be a barrier free pit entry at Fuji.

Err no, it's really easy. Race C is often worth 20 SR, and yep FIA even more as it depends on the total amount of sectors in a race, more laps, more SR to gain. I've gone from SR.E to SR.S in 3 races with the right combo (3x SR boost at SR.E, from 1 SR straight to 50+ SR in one race) Also from SR.S to SR.E in 3 races with the wrong combo

When you make a new account as this guy probably did, his pace was no match to the DR.D drivers he got matched with at first. So he likely started on pole, left everyone in the dust and collected max SR.

 

[BigSarj]

After my race last night at Tsukuba it was very obvious that this system is still turrible.
It allows way to much contact.
People can ram and nothing happens no pen given.
They need to adjust it back to how it was at initial release imo.
This is way too permissive

I haven't had much of an issue with ramming not being penalized but I got pit maneuvered twice yesterday and the perp received no penalty. Not sure what is going on but maybe it's lag related.

 

[NoStopN]

All I know is I ran 2 races on....Tuesday...I believe. Started 8th in both. First race, finished 7th, gained 400 DR, but lost enough SR to get a red S. Second race, punted at T1L1 by someone farther back trying to win it as early as possible. I got pounded & somehow got 3 seconds penalty. Basically DFL after 1 lap. Pitted on lap 3 for RM tires. Once I caught one of the vagrants that I know pushed me, I retaliated. Penalty seconds for me. Still DFL & pitted after lap 8. In that last stint, I caught back up to him & passed easily since he was driving on worn tires. I lost enough SR to be dropped to B. I gave up & just popped in Wreckfest & could enjoy contact with other cars.