perhaps GT6 is falling behind.

[TokoTurismo]

Yes, its easy...
-GT6 has so many cars because some of them are standard and dont have interior.
-Other games have all cars with interior but have much fewer ones.
-Cars with full detail and interior take long to be modeled, therefore it means we will get less cars.
-If we want a lot of cars, we should expect some of them without interior.

Where is the law that says "A developer must model all cars with interior otherwise they will be a joke" ?

What is wrong with having lesser cars!? No. Having more does NOT equal good if the models are different from one another, and who cares if a game has less cars? It'll be silly to see a car in said game have its interior modelled, while the other doesn't have any. That's ridiculous and you know it.

 

[pyrates]

I agree with this. But you can still see the gaps in the track map.


GT should not be too much of a simulator. It should be a good balance that can please the vast majority of players which are the casual ones, and please the more hardcore fans who want more of a simulation thing. But I tell you, hardcore simulators are not so fun. Tell the F1 drivers when they get into the F1 simulator...
And not abuse, I didnt mean to disrespect, Its my opinion about those who only care about beating someone and about leaderboards. I also like to do well and win, I think everyone does... but I have experienced competitive gaming before and... I think people should not get obsessed with it and take the game as a job, unless you want to become a professional racing driver I suppose. But as long as you take the game as a very serious thing, the fun is kinda gone.

You have it in your own signature, Nixon. "Racing is a state of mind'. That includes being competitive and wanting a challenge. So I don't understand why you think people are too serious if they want to compare themselves to others in a racing game. That's pretty much what it is about.

 

[MXH]

Yes, its easy...
-GT6 has so many cars because some of them are standard and dont have interior.
-Other games have all cars with interior but have much fewer ones.
-Cars with full detail and interior take long to be modeled, therefore it means we will get less cars.
-If we want a lot of cars, we should expect some of them without interior.

Here's another thought: stop focusing so much on the quantity of cars. While Gran Turismo can champion itself with having the most cars in a racing game, the list is bloated, outdated and frankly, lacks the variety and an intriguing list that can be seen elsewhere. While it's an entirely subjective opinion (i.e to each his own), wouldn't you value that kind of quality over what we have today?

Where is the law that says "A developer must model all cars with interior otherwise they will be a joke" ?

Ask Codemasters.

 

[NixxxoN]

What is wrong with having lesser cars!? No. Having more does NOT equal good if the models are different from one another, and who cares if a game has less cars? It'll be silly to see a car in said game have its interior modelled, while the other doesn't have any. That's ridiculous and you know it.

What is wrong with having lesser cars? A lot is wrong. The more cars, the better. The less cars the worse.
Who cares if a game has less cars? A lot of people do.
GT7 will have many of cars with interiors, I never said It shouldn't have any. I said it would be no problem if some semi-premium quality cars with no interior would be kept and replace the standards with them.

You have it in your own signature, Nixon. "Racing is a state of mind'. That includes being competitive and wanting a challenge. So I don't understand why you think people are too serious if they want to compare themselves to others in a racing game. That's pretty much what it is about.

Yes, but one thing is taking it as a game to enjoy, and the other taking it as a job or as an elite sportsman... I dont train like mad just to beat people, because training alone its not fun. I simply play and try to race as fast as possible, because racing against others is fun.

 

[Samus]

Jesus, so you're defining fun now? If someone finds attacking leaderboards fun they're having fun wrong, are they?

 

[pyrates]

What is wrong with having lesser cars? A lot is wrong. The more cars, the better. The less cars the worse.
Who cares if a game has less cars? A lot of people do.
GT7 will have many of cars with interiors, I never said It shouldn't have any. I said it would be no problem if some semi-premium quality cars with no interior would be kept and replace the standards with them.


Yes, but one thing is taking it as a game to enjoy, and the other taking it as a job or as an elite sportsman... I dont train like mad just to beat people, because training alone its not fun. I simply play and try to race as fast as possible, because racing against others is fun.

Wanting leaderboards doesn't necessarily mean that all you will ever do is trying to beat everyone. And even if people want to do it - so be it. As you said you like racing and can do that in GT6 - fine. What about people that like hot lapping? For them it is really not that easy to get their fix without leaderboards.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Jesus, so you're defining fun now? If someone finds attacking leaderboards fun they're having fun wrong, are they?

Hell yeah they are, the plebeians don't know what fun is until it's dictated to them. How dare they muck around and try to be the top of the mound. Such miscreants don't even hold the wonderful acknowledgement of wiping down my racing wheel.

Yeah that ^ about sounds right.

What is wrong with having lesser cars? A lot is wrong. The more cars, the better. The less cars the worse.
Who cares if a game has less cars? A lot of people do.
GT7 will have many of cars with interiors, I never said It shouldn't have any. I said it would be no problem if some semi-premium quality cars with no interior would be kept and replace the standards with them.


Yes, but one thing is taking it as a game to enjoy, and the other taking it as a job or as an elite sportsman... I dont train like mad just to beat people, because training alone its not fun. I simply play and try to race as fast as possible, because racing against others is fun.

Please stop before you hurt yourself, I'm on limited time for the next couple days (lucky you and the community at large) so just please stop for the sake of them.

 

[TokoTurismo]

What is wrong with having lesser cars? A lot is wrong. The more cars, the better. The less cars the worse.
Who cares if a game has less cars? A lot of people do.
GT7 will have many of cars with interiors, I never said It shouldn't have any. I said it would be no problem if some semi-premium quality cars with no interior would be kept and replace the standards with them.

That STILL won't be a good decision. I don't see other games doing that. Why must PD be different? And having less cars is worse than having more cars? I'm sorry, but no it's not. And yes, some people don't care... Whether a game has more cars or not, as along as they get to drive them, it won't matter.

Plus, quality-wise. The cars must be at the same level of quality, not different from one another.

 

[Tornado]

I feel for you guys who are just so hard to satisfy.

My expectations for GT6 were so amazingly low that the only reason I bought it was because Wardez asked me to for the GTP Podcast. I didn't believe PD did anything to improve the AI. I knew the sounds would still be terrible, and that they likely would never be improved by a patch. I knew it would be lacking major functionality that GT5 had since day one, never mind GT5 circa 2.15. I knew some of Kaz's statements after GT5's release essentially amounted to telling people what they wanted to hear while they continued to do whatever they wanted. I was pretty sure it would play worse, based on all the performance problems GT Academy had. I had a reasonable assumption that the game balance would be ruined even compared to GT5 to push microtransactions (which it still pretty much is, since they put the exact same Band-Aid fixes they applied to GT5). What I did not expect was that the game would be so wildly boring and slapdash that it would be pointless compared to just playing the GT game I already had a bunch of time in.


About the only thing I didn't expect was that GT6 would be superficially better (the menus load faster, some of the stupid restrictions in GT5 were removed, some improvements to the physics engine) but mostly just worse where it mattered (rubber band AI, chopped back functionality across the board, replacing the level system with an even worse level system being just a few examples); so where did my expectations run wild?

 

[Samus]

People get too focused on numbers when it comes to cars when what the cars actually are is a lot more important. Given the time I could make a list of 200 cars i'd enjoy more than another list of 600 cars.

 

[Imari]

GT should not be too much of a simulator. It should be a good balance that can please the vast majority of players which are the casual ones, and please the more hardcore fans who want more of a simulation thing. But I tell you, hardcore simulators are not so fun. Tell the F1 drivers when they get into the F1 simulator...

The thing is, cars are pretty easy to drive. A proper simulator of road cars isn't really that hard to drive. It's hard to drive fast, but that's because it's actually hard to drive fast.

Hardcore simulators can be fun for everyone. If you have evidence that F1 drivers hate working in the simulator, please present it. I'm sure it's not as much fun as driving a real F1 car, and I'm sure it's also pretty hard work, but then an F1 car isn't exactly easy to drive.

And not abuse, I didnt mean to disrespect, Its my opinion about those who only care about beating someone and about leaderboards. I also like to do well and win, I think everyone does... but I have experienced competitive gaming before and... I think people should not get obsessed with it and take the game as a job, unless you want to become a professional racing driver I suppose. But as long as you take the game as a very serious thing, the fun is kinda gone.

There's a massive difference between gaming for a job, and trying to beat your time on a leaderboard at home. They're not even in the same ballpark.

Taking a game seriously is a different kind of fun. Sometimes I just want to get drunk and ram into stuff with friends. Nothing wrong with that, that's fun. Sometimes I want to seriously test my skill and see how fast I can really get this RX8 to go. Nothing wrong with that, that's fun too.

When I'm in a league with people doing a race that may take an hour and only happen once a week, I sort of want everyone to be taking it reasonably seriously. Yeah, we're all here to have fun, but we're not here to goof off and try and draw penises with burnouts. We're here to race, because racing is fun.

Having a battle with someone that goes on for lap after lap, nose to tail, sometimes attacking, sometimes defending, probing for weakness, going two or even three wide through corners, negotiating traffic, this is the most fun I can have in a racing game. Leaderboards are a poor substitute for that, but chasing someone else's time can be exciting too as you're just down on them at the split, but then you get a good run out of the final corner and you got it! It's a good thing to do while developing my track knowledge and car control to the level where I can have those head to head battles for laps on end safely.


Honestly, I think you play racing games for a very different set of reasons to me. I don't know what those are, because you don't say, but the violence with which you react against the ways I say I want to play tells me that you find this sort of competition to be somehow wrong.

What is wrong with having lesser cars? A lot is wrong. The more cars, the better. The less cars the worse.

It's not nearly that simple.

Do you take a hundred cars perfectly modelled physically and visually, the closest representation possible of the real thing?
Or do you take a thousand cars that mostly resemble the cars they're based on, but physically and visually they're only maybe 80% there?

I'm going to tell you right now, there isn't a right answer to this.

Yes, but one thing is taking it as a game to enjoy, and the other taking it as a job or as an elite sportsman... I dont train like mad just to beat people, because training alone its not fun. I simply play and try to race as fast as possible, because racing against others is fun.

And that's what's fun for you. Great.

Perhaps you might consider that other people don't necessarily find the same things fun, and indeed may find things fun that you would find tediously boring or awful.

There is not one way to play the game that you can point at and say "thou shalt play like this. This is fun." A really great game is flexible enough to accommodate a wide range of gameplay styles so that lots of people can have fun.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I've said for some time now that PD's problem is they are slow. But they deliver. They have bad delays, but they end up bringing the goods. They dont lie, as far as I know.

At what point does not delivering on promises become lies? I never did see leaderboards in GT5, or matchmaking...

Because if they wanted one so badly, then wouldn't they have something to like about it in the first place? You don't buy a game that's terrible and then continually stick with and love it until it is good.

No, you probably don't... which is why it's unlikely I'll buy GT7, until I see reviews from folks on here I trust.

Those kinds of people are just Forza fans who couldn't care less for GT6, and they come across the GT6 forums to let everybody else know they're not a fan.

Spoken from a position of true ignorance. This may be shocking, but some of us prefer multiple games, and in a lot of cases, have been playing the GT series longer than you've been alive. I've traveled and met people because of GT, I've had school paid for because of GT, and it's entirely likely my career path was influenced by GT. So I'm vocally critical of it because I remember a time when it was an unquestioned leader in its category.

I feel for you guys who are just so hard to satisfy.

Right, to expect news on the things I was promised for a game I paid for is too much. Nevermind that after three years work, GT6 is barely different from GT5 - and in some cases, even worse.

I have lots and lots of fun... If I can, why others can't? Thats what I dont understand

You don't understand that some people like different things? Surely that's not too difficult of a concept.

I played online in GT5 nearly every day for the first 9 months of that game. GT6's online is barely different (but now with more lag), and PD's decision to skimp on the rest of the game experience means other than online, there's nothing else to really keep me playing. Well, unless I want to endlessly hot lap, but after a decade and a half of that, it's not enough to hold my interest.

Graphic detail, graphic detail, graphic detail... you seem to be the typical gamer of nowadays that I'm talking about.

I shouldn't have to point out all the beneficial features that come from having proper, modern multi-piece models (relating to physics, customization, and more).

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

People get too focused on numbers when it comes to cars when what the cars actually are is a lot more important. Given the time I could make a list of 200 cars i'd enjoy more than another list of 600 cars.

Only because PD has made the spectacle some sort of pissing match that many fans of the game now hold as the measuring tool to gauge other console or pc sims. Many times making it the primary use of measurement because they don't understand things other than "this number is bigger than this number thus the game is better" @NixxxoN. It' really doesn't take much thought to see that, and sadly that is usually the one thing it has over everyone else with graphics being an arguable second (not now but in the past).

 

[Mulan]

People get too focused on numbers when it comes to cars when what the cars actually are is a lot more important. Given the time I could make a list of 200 cars i'd enjoy more than another list of 600 cars.

I agree to a point depending on what you are to do with them.
PD has gone the broad way, mooncars to carts, electric cars and F1. What is the fun in driving a Prius? If GT is going for driving simulator and not racing then they need the quantity. If they choose racing then i see lot of cars that can be removed. So i agree, all cars are not needed for racing but im not sure PD is aiming for that if i take Gt5&6 as Reference.
Another way could be keeping volume of cars and have a coursemaker and open landscape/city driving as next. Then i can see all the normal cars come to use. Perhaps even as training for driverslicense
Now that would be a driving simulator. Real life drama

 

[NixxxoN]

Please stop before you hurt yourself, I'm on limited time for the next couple days (lucky you and the community at large) so just please stop for the sake of them.

Yes I stop... because I give up, I'm tired of talking to these negative people, theres no point in continuing

All I say is, they should stop with the neverending whining and complaining, and if they dislike GT so much go play Forza, iRacing, Assetto Corsa, or whatever, and have fun, and let the GT fans have fun with our own kind of game.

 

[Samus]

Yes I stop... because I give up, I'm tired of talking to these negative people, theres no point in continuing

All I say is, they should stop with the neverending whining and complaining, and if they dislike GT so much go play Forza, iRacing, Assetto Corsa, or whatever, and have fun, and let the GT fans have fun with our own kind of game.

That post sums your narrow minded, me me me views up quite nicely actually.

 

[Bo]

Spoken from a position of true ignorance. This may be shocking, but some of us prefer multiple games, and in a lot of cases, have been playing the GT series longer than you've been alive. I've traveled and met people because of GT, I've had school paid for because of GT, and it's entirely likely my career path was influenced by GT. So I'm vocally critical of it because I remember a time when it was an unquestioned leader in its category.

The first bit you quoted was actually my reply to this exact same thing.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Wish PD signed the AUP

I agree to a point depending on what you are to do with them.
PD has gone the broad way, mooncars to carts, electric cars and F1. What is the fun in driving a Prius? If GT is going for driving simulator and not racing then they need the quantity. If they choose racing then i see lot of cars that can be removed. So i agree, all cars are not needed for racing but im not sure PD is aiming for that if i take Gt5&6 as Reference.
Another way could be keeping volume of cars and have a coursemaker and open landscape/city driving as next. Then i can see all the normal cars come to use. Perhaps even as training for driverslicense
Now that would be a driving simulator. Real life drama

Even PD doesn't know what it wants, one side of the display box says the "real driving simulator" then you turn it around and it says the "most real racing simulator" as seen on the back of the newer games. Then in the synopsis you see a break down of how you can enjoy driving by yourself (real driving sim) or go out and challenge people and win races on world famous tracks (real racing sim).

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The first bit you quoted was actually my reply to this exact same thing.

So you think that if customers are unhappy with a product, instead of voicing that, they should stay quiet and buy the competition?

Please run a company with that mindset once you're old enough.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yes I stop... because I give up, I'm tired of talking to these negative people, theres no point in continuing

All I say is, they should stop with the neverending whining and complaining, and if they dislike GT so much go play Forza, iRacing, Assetto Corsa, or whatever, and have fun, and let the GT fans have fun with our own kind of game.

Really shouldn't quote me and then display ignorance at the same time. I'm a GT fan and like Slipz had it be a big part of my life as well, and it's due to that mutual respect for a culture and game that I'm still a fan. Me being critical doesn't make me less of a fan it just shows I'm being honest and not some blind child being carried away with the wind. I also play those other simulators because this isn't a religion nor should it be treated as one, it is a community that enjoys a genre of game and culture to a large extent. If all you understand is your spilt milk why did you join this thread and more importantly this forum with differing ideals that I nor you will ever change.

 

[Bo]

Wish PD signed the AUP

I agree to a point depending on what you are to do with them.
PD has gone the broad way, mooncars to carts, electric cars and F1. What is the fun in driving a Prius? If GT is going for driving simulator and not racing then they need the quantity. If they choose racing then i see lot of cars that can be removed. So i agree, all cars are not needed for racing but im not sure PD is aiming for that if i take Gt5&6 as Reference.
Another way could be keeping volume of cars and have a coursemaker and open landscape/city driving as next. Then i can see all the normal cars come to use. Perhaps even as training for driverslicense
Now that would be a driving simulator. Real life drama

They have cars of all classes because it reflects reality. You don't start racing in LMP's because they're the only "fun" cars around.

So you think that if customers are unhappy with a product, instead of voicing that, they should stay quiet and buy the competition?

Please run a company with that mindset once you're old enough.

If somebody is saying that PD is on a downwards spiral, and nothing good is coming from them (which is just an opinion as valid as yours or mine), then why do they buy the game to then moan about it? You summed it up perfectly, by saying that you won't buy GT7 until you know it's good.

 

[iRevelationz]

Yes I stop... because I give up, I'm tired of talking to these negative people, theres no point in continuing

All I say is, they should stop with the neverending whining and complaining, and if they dislike GT so much go play Forza, iRacing, Assetto Corsa, or whatever, and have fun, and let the GT fans have fun with our own kind of game.

You ever think people complain because they're GT fanatics; because they want to see this franchise return to it's former dominance among console racing games?

It's just frustrating for some of us to see what Gran Turismo was a decade ago, and then see what it is now.

We all want the same thing, don't we? A good, solid product everyone is happy with (or at least the overwhelming majority). You're not gonna get that without some negativity along the way. I'm sorry but you're not.

 

[MeanElf]

It's curious that he went silent in January. That was the last time he spoke to the press in any way, the last time he tweeted. Ever since then he's as good as fallen off the edge of the planet, saying absolutely nothing about his game anywhere. No tweets, no interviews, no press.

Probably pulling eighteen hour days since then to get things straight.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

They have cars of all classes because it reflects reality. You don't start racing in LMP's because they're the only "fun" cars around.

You sure as hell don't start it in a Prius down at the local track either...not sure how his point became moot when he was asking for either more realistic race cars that go with such a path. Or stick to driving cars with less race cars because that's what theoretically a driving sim should be.

 

[NixxxoN]

So you think that if customers are unhappy with a product, instead of voicing that, they should stay quiet and buy the competition?

Please run a company with that mindset once you're old enough.

You can hardly ever satisfy everyone. Not saying that company owners should encourage going to the competition, but...
Go tell Ferrari that you are not satisfied with their supercars, you want something much cheaper, more practical, with good fuel economy and off-road capability, please.

You ever think people complain because they're GT fanatics; because they want to see this franchise return to it's former dominance among console racing games?

I'm pretty sure the dominance GT had many years ago will never return, because now there's a lot of important competition, and back then, there wasn't.
First of all, GT is a console franchise, and a console really can't compete with a PC in terms of technical power in general.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You can hardly ever satisfy everyone. Not saying that company owners should encourage going to the competition, but...
Go tell Ferrari that you are not satisfied with their supercars, you want something much cheaper, more practical, with good fuel economy and off-road capability, please.

Should have figured that's what your ego and naive selection of written thought came from.

 

[1gt6freak]

Uuuuhhhhh....What? All in due time my young padawan, all in due time. What will you say when the course maker gets here? Will GT6 still be falling behind?

All in due time my young padawan, that phrase doesn't apply in customer service PD is starting to sound like politicians, we all bought an unfinished product at full price, it's like buying a sports car and then waiting for the speed handling to come at a later date, what will I say when the course maker gets here, IT'S ABOUT TIME!

 

[finnracer]

Is this yet another 'epic whining and crying' thread in disguise?

 

[NixxxoN]

Should have figured that's what your ego and naive selection of written thought came from.

What a funny, full of argument and not personal reply.

 

[Samus]

You can hardly ever satisfy everyone. Not saying that company owners should encourage going to the competition, but...
Go tell Ferrari that you are not satisfied with their supercars, you want something much cheaper, more practical, with good fuel economy and off-road capability, please.

I'm pretty sure the dominance GT had many years ago will never return, because now there's a lot of important competition, and back then, there wasn't.
First of all, GT is a console franchise, and a console really can't compete with a PC in terms of technical power in general.

Yes, because that is exactly comparable to what people are asking of PD to include in Gran Turismo.