Pininfarina Teases Fittipaldi EF7 Vision GT Before Geneva Motor Show

348
United States
Seattle, WA
hankolerd
Sigh. You really bought into the marketing, didn't you? That's all it is, marketing. Do a little reading on the engineering behind the 2X and come back to me.

I don't disagree. There are a lot of assumptions that have to be made when you are trying to imagine what scientific discoveries will be made in 30-40 years time. And I am not trying to imply that everything they have imagined will ever be possible. I was just trying to say that a team of designers spent a fairly significant amount of time trying to create a vision for the manufacturer they work for. I am sure if they had a team of engineers working on the project instead of designers every car would seem a lot more feasible.

I guess what bugs me, is Polyphony Digital is doing a great job engaging the entire automotive industry, asking them to think outside the limitations they are forced to deal with everyday. So many people tend to throw it off as a giant waste of time with no substance to show for it. I just disagree with that mindset and am glad PD are trying something different to engage the automotive industry.

I am not saying the VGT project is perfect, and I don't disagree that some of the cars don't really speak to the vision of the project. In fact I really don't enjoy driving any of the VGT cars in game because of their "extreme" nature. But I do find the entire project exciting nonetheless, and I do enjoy reading about and looking at what each manufacturer presents.
 

Northstar

The Original Party Worm
Premium
24,128
United States
Anoka, MN
:odd:



:lol::lol::lol:

US_Navy_071006-N-4166B-033_An_F-A-18_Hornet_attached_to_the_Warhawks_of_Strike_Fighter_Squadron_(VFA)_97_conducts_a_touch_and_go_landing_and_takeoff_aboard_the_Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier_USS_Abraham_Lincoln_(CVN_72).jpg


RIP everyone.

2 things.

1) Notice how everyone is a certain distance off to the side and nobody is behind the jet? Now think of a race, how often do cars come in close contact with each other?

2) People can handle short bursts of loud noise with minimal damage. Once again compare that to a race where they can last for hours.

Beware, sorcery:



You don't understand the physical principles behind anything, it's embarrassing.


I don't see how an umbrella lasting in a wind tunnel suddenly means thin sticks of metal can handle immense G forces while supporting large pieces of carbon fiber.
 
13,432
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
:odd:



:lol::lol::lol:

US_Navy_071006-N-4166B-033_An_F-A-18_Hornet_attached_to_the_Warhawks_of_Strike_Fighter_Squadron_(VFA)_97_conducts_a_touch_and_go_landing_and_takeoff_aboard_the_Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier_USS_Abraham_Lincoln_(CVN_72).jpg


RIP everyone.

And you, you read up on a turbine.

First, it's not explosions, it's combustion. There is a difference. I know that the layman tends to conflate the two, but if you want to nit pick me then you're going to have to know the difference.
Second, there's a whole bunch of gubbins in between the combustion chamber and the exhaust on a jet.
Third, you should probably read up on blast danger from jet engines. They have blast deflectors simply because being anywhere near straight behind the jet is dangerous. Being deck crew on an aircraft carrier is generally regarded as a pretty dangerous job. Notice how everyone is wearing protective gear and being very careful about where they stand? Not wearing a t-shirt and flip flops as they go to the Sunday races?

Beware, sorcery:



You don't understand the physical principles behind anything, it's embarrassing.


What? It's flopping around like a fish in a sandpit at 75. Pretty good for an umbrella though, I must admit.

red_bull_ring_srt_tomahawk_x_vgt_run_by_the13thsharpshooter-d9197y1.jpg


Now let's see something like that panel, being held up by what is at best a 10mm rod. At 400kmph. With what looks like a good 30+cm of leverage from the attachment point. And stable in all six degrees of freedom.

You notice that the Huayra, which incorporates similar tech, does it with flaps instead of entire panels so that they can be mounted firmly. Even the Alpine VGT does it with flaps.

An educated guess tells me that either the attachment point will rip out or the bar will bend, but I suppose we could do some math if you really think that's wrong. Do you wanna have a guess at the dimensions of the panels/bars so that we're both working on the same problem at least?

:lol::lol::lol:

Source please?

www.gran-turismo.com

It's a computer game. You may have heard of it. The Vision Gran Turismo program, or VGT, was and is a program for manufacturers to design a car to be put in Gran Turismo. A game.

The engineers don't have to be beholden to current physics and material strengths, because they can just handwave a number that they feel is in the ball park (or not) and roll with it. Which I think was one of the problems with the VGT project, as soon as some companies realised this it became a automotive dong length competition. Polyphony really could have done with being clearer/stricter about the rules, knowing that manufacturers are always going to try and one up each other.

I was just trying to say that a team of designers spent a fairly significant amount of time trying to create a vision for the manufacturer they work for. I am sure if they had a team of engineers working on the project instead of designers every car would seem a lot more feasible.

They certainly did. And I'm sure you're right. But they're designers, not engineers. We can appreciate their work without holding it up as a highly rigorous engineering exercise.

I guess what bugs me, is Polyphony Digital is doing a great job engaging the entire automotive industry, asking them to think outside the limitations they are forced to deal with everyday. So many people tend to throw it off as a giant waste of time with no substance to show for it. I just disagree with that mindset and am glad PD are trying something different to engage the automotive industry.

Woah, woah, woah. I'm not saying that it was a giant waste of time. My general opinion is that it was a very good idea that wasn't implemented particularly well. I just don't think that holding it up as an example of highly engineered cars is sensible. Or accurate. That's not what it was intended to be, and it's certainly not what it ended up being.

I am not saying the VGT project is perfect, and I don't disagree that some of the cars don't really speak to the vision of the project. In fact I really don't enjoy driving any of the VGT cars in game because of their "extreme" nature. But I do find the entire project exciting nonetheless, and I do enjoy reading about and looking at what each manufacturer presents.

I think we're on the same page. It's a cool idea, misgivings about the wacky cars aside. And they do present interesting ideas. I like the idea of a laser powered car. I just don't like the idea of presenting it as a realistic option, even a futuristic one. It's borderline fantasy, and it's ultimately about as realistic as a Wipeout AG craft.
 
2,150
Indonesia
Jakarta
13,432
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
An interview with the champ himself and the idea behind this project :
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/gen...-champion-create-his-perfect-track-day-weapon

Sounds like similar design principles to the old McLaren F1. I like that, there's a lot to be said for fancy technology but there's no real replacement for the driver having direct control over a simple yet high performance car. It's a shame that the F40/MaccaF1 school of design tends not to have as many adherents as the P1/LaF/918 school of "pack it with compooters".
 
1,944
Canada
Canada
bremics
bremics
I thought the VGT program was about a glimpse of the future sorta thing? Like a hint to future cars from the manufacturer.

Basically, concept cars lol.

Lots of Aston Martin's went into the Vulcan (the tail lights especially), you can see some of the new Aztec in the Mitsubishi and you can see hints of the Mercedes in the AMG-GT.
 
2,218
Peru
Lima
gohan_girabyt3
gohan_girabyt3
I thought the VGT program was about a glimpse of the future sorta thing? Like a hint to future cars from the manufacturer.

Basically, concept cars lol.

Lots of Aston Martin's went into the Vulcan (the tail lights especially), you can see some of the new Aztec in the Mitsubishi and you can see hints of the Mercedes in the AMG-GT.
Well, certainly Pininfarina broke the concept streak with this being a limited-production car lol. Also, doesn't need to be that futuristic, sometimes they can be a good looking Neo-retro hommage that involves some next-gen stuff :)
Nürburgring 24h_63.jpg
o a normal supercar idea just for shows :)
Circuito de Madrid_1.jpg

Obviously sometimes they could go even beyond videogame reality, but some non-vgt concept cars do it too ;)
 
1,944
Canada
Canada
bremics
bremics
Well, certainly Pininfarina broke the concept streak with this being a limited-production car lol. Also, doesn't need to be that futuristic, sometimes they can be a good looking Neo-retro hommage that involves some next-gen stuff :) View attachment 633843 o a normal supercar idea just for shows :)
View attachment 633844
Obviously sometimes they could go even beyond videogame reality, but some non-vgt concept cars do it too ;)
Meh, personally I found most supercar **** pointless lol. I only cared about the ones that seemed like they had a future.

I liked that M3 though, never thought as it as retro though. I always thought of it as if they took a M3 race car and did the minimum to make it a street car.
 
2,218
Peru
Lima
gohan_girabyt3
gohan_girabyt3
Meh, personally I found most supercar **** pointless lol. I only cared about the ones that seemed like they had a future.

I liked that M3 though, never thought as it as retro though. I always thought of it as if they took a M3 race car and did the minimum to make it a street car.

1. It's not an M3, it's a modified series 2

bmw-serie-2-coupe-07-dm-700px.jpg


2. Neo-retro because...

p90194029_highres_bmw-3-0-csl-hommage-.jpg


;)
 
2,150
Indonesia
Jakarta
I thought the VGT program was about a glimpse of the future sorta thing? Like a hint to future cars from the manufacturer.

Basically, concept cars lol.

Lots of Aston Martin's went into the Vulcan (the tail lights especially), you can see some of the new Aztec in the Mitsubishi and you can see hints of the Mercedes in the AMG-GT.

Mostly yes, they use them to showcase future brand design language sort of thing, but this one might bring the VGT project into new direction. In my opinion, this is still in line with VGT program because every manufacturer have their own vision about their brand philosophy, how they designed their car and the difference in purpose of every single VGT cars were build whether they showcase company design language or technological advancement. This one however choose to be diferent because it is came from a long vision of racing champion who dream to build the car he want, based on his experience and expertise in racing, resulted a very exciting car not just to look at but also when you drive it you feel direct and connected with the car, an ultimate drivers car. Also, it will be build in limited number, which makes it more interesting than other VGT.

So in the end EF7 is not a design exercise or showing advanced technology, it has a simple vision to be a great car to look at and being driven on the track. And that is sounds like every petrolhead dream when we think about perfect car to have with. A dream car.
 
1,602
United States
Mass UTC-5
HugoStiglitz_420 and GTP_HugoStiglitz
Me too, but the F1 car doesn't make much sense within GT Sport's ecosystem.

Screw the ecosystem. Variety is more important that sticking to the boring class structure it has. I think they should expand the classes because having only 4 classes isn't nearly enough. Assetto Corsa has the right idea, a nice variety. Although even AC could use more open wheel cars, at least a formula ford. And Caterhams
 
6,022
Canada
Ottawa
Pyano1132
Screw the ecosystem. Variety is more important that sticking to the boring class structure it has. I think they should expand the classes because having only 4 classes isn't nearly enough. Assetto Corsa has the right idea, a nice variety. Although even AC could use more open wheel cars, at least a formula ford. And Caterhams

"Screw the ecosystem" isn't a good way of looking at this "problem". The entire premise of the game is modern class-based Grand Touring-style motorsports. If you want open-wheel racing buy F1 2017 or something. GT Sport isn't about variety, so you won't find that in this game period.
 
Last edited:
1,325
United States
PA
FredzyN2
"Screw the ecosystem" isn't a good way of looking at this "problem". The entire premise of the game is modern class-based Grand Touring-style motorsports. If you want open-wheel racing buy F1 2017 or something. GT Sport isn't about variety, so you won't find that in this game period.
I wouldn't say "the entire premise." The premise is motorsport, and the setting is Gran Turismo. There is nothing more Gran Turismo than nonsense fantasy cars and inexplicable match-ups on the track. That has been a constant since GT1.

For me, nothing has topped the greatness which was 500pp Trial Mountain in GT6 quick match. Totally absurd grids, peak Gran Turismo. I built about 2 dozen decently competitive cars to run that race. On one extreme was a Fairlady 2000, never dreamed it would be competitive but it was. FD RX7 was my ringer. Diablo GT was the surprise fun car. Couldn't get the McLaren F1 down low enough PP if I recall, would have been a dog anyhow. I never dabbled in pickup trucks but I'm pretty sure I got legitimately beat by a Dodge Ram at some point.

I can't remember what my point was, just hope that kind of nonsense is available in GTS. Countless hours of GT3 in Assetto Corsa has me ready for some Motor Toon Grand Prix 2K17.
 
22,532
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
I wouldn't say "the entire premise." The premise is motorsport, and the setting is Gran Turismo. There is nothing more Gran Turismo than nonsense fantasy cars and inexplicable match-ups on the track. That has been a constant since GT1.

For me, nothing has topped the greatness which was 500pp Trial Mountain in GT6 quick match. Totally absurd grids, peak Gran Turismo. I built about 2 dozen decently competitive cars to run that race. On one extreme was a Fairlady 2000, never dreamed it would be competitive but it was. FD RX7 was my ringer. Diablo GT was the surprise fun car. Couldn't get the McLaren F1 down low enough PP if I recall, would have been a dog anyhow. I never dabbled in pickup trucks but I'm pretty sure I got legitimately beat by a Dodge Ram at some point.

I can't remember what my point was, just hope that kind of nonsense is available in GTS. Countless hours of GT3 in Assetto Corsa has me ready for some Motor Toon Grand Prix 2K17.

You don't seem to have a hard set point, other than "I want GT like it has been". Even though you and everyone else here knew that wasn't what we'd get with GTS. So what you've spelled out and what others are suddenly complaining about is missing the entire premise. This isn't about car collecting and making crazy events it's an entire esport focused game with a rating system and class structure and FIA backing.
 
1,325
United States
PA
FredzyN2
You don't seem to have a hard set point, other than "I want GT like it has been". Even though you and everyone else here knew that wasn't what we'd get with GTS. So what you've spelled out and what others are suddenly complaining about is missing the entire premise. This isn't about car collecting and making crazy events it's an entire esport focused game with a rating system and class structure and FIA backing.
So you don't think we'll be able to take normal cars and make them faster or slower to fit into a common class for racing? That's all I'm talking about, clearly this will be available. Obviously we won't get the variety we've had before but what we've seen isn't all we'll get.

https://www.gtplanet.net/gt-sport-could-eventually-feature-up-to-500-cars/

I'm a firm believer that this is effectively GT7. I don't think they're going to hold back anything to maintain a certain structure for the game. They're angling the game a certain way to present a fresh image of Gran Turismo as something new and cutting edge, but they'll put everything they can into it so it will function and hopefully sell like a normal GT game.
 
305
United States
Baltimore,Maryland
taegonlewis78
taegonlewis1
Well, certainly Pininfarina broke the concept streak with this being a limited-production car lol. Also, doesn't need to be that futuristic, sometimes they can be a good looking Neo-retro hommage that involves some next-gen stuff :) View attachment 633843 o a normal supercar idea just for shows :)
View attachment 633844
Obviously sometimes they could go even beyond videogame reality, but some non-vgt concept cars do it too ;)
Didn't Bugatti and Hyundai broke the concept streak, too, when their concepts showcased in the 2014 L.A. Auto Show and ran for the first time, in real life?
 
1,244
Didn't Bugatti and Hyundai broke the concept streak, too, when their concepts showcased in the 2014 L.A. Auto Show and ran for the first time, in real life?

A handful of the Vision GT cars have been seen functioning, most are just static models (Hyundai included - it's supposed to be some futuristic hydrogen-powered 2025 Le Mans car, so I highly doubt that Hyundai have a working example of any sort). The only two working concepts thus far (aside from the Fittipaldi EF7, for obvious reasons) are the Volkswagen and Bugatti cars, and I suspect neither has been properly developed for high-speed driving. I think they really only have engines so they can cruise around motor shows and rev the engines occasionally (which is all they've ever been seen doing).
 
544
United States
America's Land of Dairy
ShobTheGrob
Shob The Grob
There's no dispute that the EF7 is a production car- a milestone even PD themselves might not have thought possible. However, you also can't overlook the caveat of it being very limited in the number of units built, and I can't imagine the average GT player will be able to afford a real one either.
 
22,532
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
So you don't think we'll be able to take normal cars and make them faster or slower to fit into a common class for racing? That's all I'm talking about, clearly this will be available. Obviously we won't get the variety we've had before but what we've seen isn't all we'll get.

We've been told that the game will feature sparse degree of modifications, that the cars will fit in to class tiers. And that we'll be rated on our driving in various manners, and that the game while having AI will mostly be geared toward an eSport experience.

https://www.gtplanet.net/gt-sport-could-eventually-feature-up-to-500-cars/

I'm a firm believer that this is effectively GT7. I don't think they're going to hold back anything to maintain a certain structure for the game. They're angling the game a certain way to present a fresh image of Gran Turismo as something new and cutting edge, but they'll put everything they can into it so it will function and hopefully sell like a normal GT game.

That's great we've been given these type of promises before and they've come short, or come true, or nothing. You can post it up and point it out, but just cause it has said amount doesn't mean that it changes the idea of this game in relation to past gran turismo. PD has made that quite clear in their promoting of the game.

You may be a firm believer that it is GT7 based on it being the seventh full length feature, or because you like the field of thought.

PD has been pretty keen on it otherwise. They'll put their image on it, which for 20 years has been quite the same despite what angle they come from. So no one is saying it wont be GT if feel and look, but what is being said is that it wont be a PS4 version of what we got last gen.
 
1,325
United States
PA
FredzyN2
You may be a firm believer that it is GT7 based on it being the seventh full length feature, or because you like the field of thought.
I wouldn't say I'm a firm believer. Looking at the beta I think you could be right. I'm not sure where the game will stand for me in that case. I'm not getting a good feeling driving in GTS.
 
22,532
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
I wouldn't say I'm a firm believer. Looking at the beta I think you could be right. I'm not sure where the game will stand for me in that case. I'm not getting a good feeling driving in GTS.

You just said you were a firm believer though, it's even quoted in my prior post from you. Unless you're saying that after the evidence that we've had for a year and half being repeated by me has swayed your belief?
 
1,325
United States
PA
FredzyN2
You just said you were a firm believer though, it's even quoted in my prior post from you. Unless you're saying that after the evidence that we've had for a year and half being repeated by me has swayed your belief?
I should have clarified - after playing the beta for 3 or 4 hours, my opinion swayed regarding GTS including typical GT customization and tuning. Nothing about the production says to me there will be a GT Auto that you'll go to to fit tuner parts, etc. It could go either way, but I do get the impression that they want to peel that layer of complexity away. Minimizing complexity seems to be priority.

As far as this being the next GT title proper, that I still firmly believe.
 
22,532
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
I should have clarified - after playing the beta for 3 or 4 hours, my opinion swayed regarding GTS including typical GT customization and tuning. Nothing about the production says to me there will be a GT Auto that you'll go to to fit tuner parts, etc. It could go either way, but I do get the impression that they want to peel that layer of complexity away. Minimizing complexity seems to be priority.

As far as this being the next GT title proper, that I still firmly believe.

I get what you're saying now, but I don't think it is scraping complexity. All of what you liked in a regular GT actually adds some depth to the game and makes it different from others. However, they seemed to trade that for a different complexity known as eSports. We'll see how well it works out.

It is the next full GT game, I doubt you'll find anyone arguing that, but it isn't GT7
 
1,602
United States
Mass UTC-5
HugoStiglitz_420 and GTP_HugoStiglitz
"Screw the ecosystem" isn't a good way of looking at this "problem". The entire premise of the game is modern class-based Grand Touring-style motorsports. If you want open-wheel racing buy F1 2017 or something. GT Sport isn't about variety, so you won't find that in this game period.

Gran Turismo has literally always been about variety and car collecting. Plus, there's no reason they can't add car classes or have extra cars that don't fit into the stupid 4 main car classes they have.

I like the idea of a more online racing focused GT but I despise the idea of excluding such a huge part of motorsport like open wheel, just because it doesn't fit into 1 of 4 classes.

Otherwise GTS is gonna get boring real fast.