PlayStation 4 General DiscussionPS4

[Northstar]

I'm happy they are finally making the DS4 a little bigger as the smallness of PS controllers has always been a negative for me. I really couldn't care less about stick placement either as I have no problem going from 360 to PS3 and back.

Now, that being said. I'm not really feeling the PS4 as a whole and the "announcement" didn't help. I'm not big on online gaming to start with which has been an increasing focus this gen and doesn't look to be stopping, plus it seems the PS4 will be integrated to social media which is a major turn-off for me. I'm not going to completely rule out a PS4 in my future, but it would take some very good console exclusive games for me to pick one up(same goes for whatever Microsoft brings to the party).

 

[PzR Slim]

stuff

Not sure your pics could have better proved my point. The N64 controller has the thumbstick directly above the grip not to the side a la Sony. So nintendo lapsed with the Wii gampad, possibly to keep it similar to a Wiimote used as a controller. Third party controllers are generally toilet so I'll agree with you on that.

What's best for a product is what's best for the majority of people who you want to buy the product.

And yes it's an extreme case but it perfectly illustrates my point. Companies looking to sell high volume should make decisions based on what the majority of people they are trying to sell to want, hence ignoring individuals and listening to the masses.

 

[Tornado]

Not sure your pics could have better proved my point. The N64 controller has the thumbstick directly above the grip not to the side a la Sony.

Did you seriously just use the N64 controller as a reason supporting 360-style ergonomics?


Yeah. I think we're done here. Oh, and:

And yes it's an extreme case but it perfectly illustrates my point. Companies looking to sell high volume should make decisions based on what the majority of people they are trying to sell to want, hence ignoring individuals and listening to the masses.

No it doesn't. You're using an example where a handful of people would prefer a specific controller design far removed from the norm to equate to an example where a sizeable percentage of people prefer a specific controller design and attempting to fudge the numbers in your favor. No way in hell can you prove your "vast majority prefer the 360 design" point, so there's no way in hell any of your argument thus far can be anything more than a logical fallacy; even ignoring the fact that they just proves more people like it rather than it being objectively better as you originally asserted. Just like it is every time someone claims the 360 placement is better because "um" and "that's where it should be."

 

[PzR Slim]

Did you seriously just use the N64 controller as a reason supporting 360-style ergonomics?

Is the thumbstick position in relation to where you grip the N64 controller the same as on an xbox pad or a PS pad?

 

[dhandeh]

Any chance of agreeing to disagree?

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Top photo: PC

Bottom photo : PS4 (aka PC with specs similar to the PS4)

Wow. PC version definitely superior already.

Differences in detail on the character model alone is pretty dramatic.

 

[Tornado]

Is the thumbstick position in relation to where you grip the N64 controller the same as on an xbox pad or a PS pad?

The thumbstick position is on a third stalk on the controller that you are forced to take your entire hand away from to use all of the buttons on the pad. It's as far removed from the Microsoft and Sony designs as (and thus as relevant to your point as) the Wii Nunchuck.

Any chance of agreeing to disagree?

I dunno. He's the one claiming that those who disagree are "the fanboys of all consoles who claim black is white in the face of the facts."

 

[Robin]

Wow. PC version definitely superior already.

I noticed this with Watch Dogs in the presentation, it already looks graphically inferior to the PC version which was shown a few months ago probably running on beast hardware. On paper the PS4 only has the graphical power of a mid range graphics card now.

 

[Lizard]

Top photo: PC


Bottom photo : PS4 (aka PC with specs similar to the PS4)

Wow. PC version definitely superior already.

Differences in detail on the character model alone is pretty dramatic.

That's a heavily biased image. The lighting for one makes the bottom image look worse because of the way the light is on the character and other things.

Also try evaluating to systems of similar price.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

That's a heavily biased image. The lighting for one makes the bottom image look worse because of the way the light is on the character and other things.

Also try evaluating to systems of similar price.

Its biased because the lighting is worse on the PS4 version making everything that is worse look worse?

Seems legit.

Why would I evaluate it to a system of similar price?

Hey guys we can't compare the Corvette and the Viper because they don't cost the same.

It is the same tech demo being ran on two different (debatable) platforms so comparisons are entirely valid.

Don't scream "bias" because the PS4 is already inferior.

I noticed this with Watch Dogs in the presentation, it already looks graphically inferior to the PC version which was shown a few months ago probably running on beast hardware. On paper the PS4 only has the graphical power of a mid range graphics card now.

I agree; I thought the Watch Dogs version they showed looked terrible. That could be because I am playing Crysis 3 though.

 

[Lizard]

Its biased because the lighting is worse on the PS4 version making everything that is worse look worse?

Seems legit.

Why would I evaluate it to a system of similar price?

Hey guys we can't compare the Corvette and the Viper because they don't cost the same.

Or maybe because the angle in the second picture is further out and there is a lot more light in the picture.
Also compare it to a similar price PC because more money almost always buys you more in the computer world. The car comparison is not related because the two car's may be priced different but they are going for a similar audience.

Also a more expensive car may have something like air conditioning but if the feel isn't there then it can be considered worse than the cheaper car. Doesn't exactly work like that in computers.

Its like saying going to a posh restaurant is better than going to a cheap restaurant. It's almost always going to be the case.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Or maybe because the angle in the second picture is further out and there is a lot more light in the picture.

?? What?

The angle and distance here isn't going to make detail suddenly disappear....


If you don't notice the differences in detail in both the environment and the character model, grab a pair of glasses. They stick out like a sore thumb and screaming "the lighting is different" doesn't justify that.

Also compare it to a similar price PC because more money almost always buys you more in the computer world. The car comparison is not related because the two car's may be priced different but they are going for a similar audience.

They're priced differently but going for people who want to buy a sports car?

Kind of like how the PC and PS4 are priced differently but going for people who want to buy a gaming platform....

Also a more expensive car may have something like air conditioning but if the feel isn't there then it can be considered worse than the cheaper car. Doesn't exactly work like that in computers.

Its like saying going to a posh restaurant is better than going to a cheap restaurant. It's almost always going to be the case.

Anything to make it seem less important.

 

[Tornado]

I think he's arguing that the lighting in the PS4 picture is bad to the extent that it obscures some of the details.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

I think he's arguing that the lighting in the PS4 picture is bad, so it obscures some of the details.

If anything it shows you the details that AREN'T there.

Look at the character model and the archway (and the rocks above it) behind him....

Look at the complete lack of particle and environmental effects...

Am I the only person that sees this or what? Of course console gamers are going to be like "that doesn't matter" blah blah blah typical ps3 excuses. Well, its "next gen" now.... and it still looks like garbage.

 

[tribolik]

Hey guys we can't compare the Corvette and the Viper because they don't cost the same.

No you cant compare a Viper running with a 2014 spec vette engine... and saying that it will preform worst than the viper does because of that...

 

[Lizard]

Am I the only person that sees this or what? Of course console gamers are going to be like "that doesn't matter" blah blah blah typical ps3 excuses. Well, its "next gen" now.... and it still looks like garbage.

So already you are calling us fanboys. Ok.

And is it me or do the two archways look as if they are made from two different materials? Top it looks like it has an iron border and the bottom one looks like it is made from smooth stone.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Hmm reading the Eurogamer interview,a Paid multiplayer PSN is still a possibility

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

No you cant compare a Viper running with a 2014 spec vette engine... and saying that it will perform worse than the viper does because of that...

So its an invalid comparison because they have different engines?

So any comparison between cars with different engines is invalid?

Really?





Really?

So already you are calling us fanboys. Ok.

Don't put words in my mouth I said console gamers not "fanboys." Don't try to swing the argument away from the points being discussed.

And is it me or do the two archways look as if they are made from two different materials? Top it looks like it has an iron border and the bottom one looks like it is made from smooth stone.

lol!

You are missing the point....

The tech demo existed prior to the PS4's reveal..... Anything that was changed was changed because it could not be ran on the PS4..... They removed detail.

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[tribolik]

The Ps3 runs games much better than most PCs with better specs... get it know? and that isnt an actual PS4 game image but a PC with same specs game image.

 

[Northstar]

The Ps3 runs games much better than most PCs with better specs...

I would hope so, seeing how the PS3 doesn't have as many background things going on.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

The Ps3 runs games much better than most PCs with better specs... get it now?

Source?

Because you have none....

and that isnt an actual PS4 game image but a PC with same specs game image.

Kind of counter-productive to the above statement wouldn't you say? This was taken from the Sony demo which Sony proclaimed "is running in real time on the PS4" (which in reality was a PC with specs similar to).

I would hope so, seeing how the PS3 doesn't have as many background things going on.

This is true a console doesn't have as much overhead.

So, we just increase our specs on the PC side... You can do that...

Kind of like with cars... and racing....



So the rebuttal is "its not a fair comparison"

.............


Of course...


First it's "it's 6-7 year old hardware vs PCs....."

Now it's "it's not the same stuff...."

Funny thing is.... considering the PS4 is using x86 architecture.... they have never been closer.....

 

[Pagey279]

Top photo: PC

Bottom photo : PS4 (aka PC with specs similar to the PS4)

Wow. PC version definitely superior already.

Differences in detail on the character model alone is pretty dramatic.

How much did the "similar spec" PC cost? And what were those specs?

 

[sems4arsenal]

Source?

Because you have none....



Kind of counter-productive to the above statement wouldn't you say? This was taken from the Sony demo which Sony proclaimed "is running in real time on the PS4" (which in reality was a PC with specs similar to).



This is true a console doesn't have as much overhead.

So, we just increase our specs on the PC side... You can do that...

Kind of like with cars... and racing....



So the rebuttal is "its not a fair comparison"

.............


Of course...


First it's "it's 6-7 year old hardware vs PCs....."

Now it's "it's not the same stuff...."

Funny thing is.... considering the PS4 is using x86 architecture.... they have never been closer.....

What is wrong with PC gaming being ahead graphics wise.As a console owner I don't mind at all

 

[LaBounti]

Top photo: PC

Bottom photo : PS4 (aka PC with specs similar to the PS4)

Wow. PC version definitely superior already.

Differences in detail on the character model alone is pretty dramatic.

That's good, you get what you pay for and that's how it should be. Looking at the real time demo, its still impressive even if its not on final hardware.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

How much did the "similar spec" PC cost? And what were those specs?

I don't know ask Sony what they used during the presentation.


Sony said it was running in real time on a PS4...

But...

You have things like this:

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/watch-dogs-was-running-on-a-pc-and-not-on-a-ps4/


Here is the article where the screen shot was taken from:

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/unrea...pc-comparison-between-elemental-pc-ps4-demos/

The PC version was ran on a GTX 680 at 1080p 60fps, and the PS4 version was ran on a "PS4" at an estimated 1080p 30fps....

"As we can clearly see, the PC version features more particles effects than the PS4 version. Of course some might say that the PS4 version still features enough particles, however one of the things that really impressed us on the Elemental Tech Demo – back in 2012 – was the amount of its particles effects and the fact that it could easily handle them.

Lighting also seems to be better on the PC. Not only that, but pay attention to the Knights eyes. On the PC version, you can clearly see that his eyes are ‘burning’. That effect though is nowhere to be found on the PS4 version. Due to the lack of such feature, the Knight on the PS4 does not look as frightening as the one on the PC. As Reddit’s user ‘ForHomeUseOnly’ also notes, ‘there isn’t a shadowed area in the corner wall area by the door, and it looks like there isn’t any light bouncing going on, and missing shadowing in some areas.’

In addition specular highlights – or the shininess of the character - seem better on the PC. The PS4 version has very ‘plastic and blown out reflections‘. Furthermore, the Knight seems to be getting less indirect lighting on the PS4 version. As we can easily spot, there is some blue indirect lighting from the enviroment on the Knight’s armor on the PC tech demo, something that is missing on the PS4.

Textures also seem of a lower quality. This can be easily spotted on the Knight’s armor, the ice chunks and the door. Ah yes, the door looks really awful on the PS4 version of the Elemental demo. The PS4 version also lacks the DOF effect that was present on the PC version, though some might be glad that Epic Games did not use it. Smoke effects are also decreased to a minimum, something that can be easily spotted in the second comparison shot.

You can easily tell that the PS4 version is basically a downgrade from the PC version of Elemental. As a means of proof, we’ve included both tech demos below. We should also note that Elemental was running on a single GTX680 on the PC. We also know that Elemental was running at 1080p and 60fps on the PC. Epic Games has not revealed the resolution and the framerate of the PS4 version, though we expect it to be at 1080p and 30fps."

 

[Ddrizle]

I'm impressed with a lot of what I've seen from the PS4 announcement, but I wonder about the finalized hardware & if it will truely be similar, above or below the demos shown, which I believe were all done on PC, I could be wrong of course.

While final iteration of MGS4 on PS3 still looks impressive to me, despite it's many faults(resolution, & some textures, etc.), remembering the MGS4 announcement demo & others, makes me wonder.

 

[Pagey279]

I don't know ask Sony what they used during the presentation.

I didn't think you did.

 

[Lizard]

Source?

Because you have none....

Ask any game developer. Try getting battlefield 3 to run on 256mb of ram. Even at the worst settings I bet you can't.

Another thing with consoles is the OS doesn't take up as much (memory, cpu etc.) so more can be dedicated to games.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Ask any game developer. Another thing with consoles is the OS doesn't take up as much (memory, cpu etc.) so more can be dedicated to games.

Oh okay, well hold on let me get on the phone and give all those devs I know a call....

Really? So you know how much memory the PS4's completely revamped OS is going to take up?

Interesting....

Are you done BSing or do you have a source?

Try getting battlefield 3 to run on 256mb of ram. Even at the worst settings I bet you can't.

No thanks; I have 8 GB of RAM in addition to 3 GB of VRAM. Why would I handicap my performance to do that? It isn't necessary on PC because we have more than enough processing power and hardware resources... something you are evidently failing to grasp. I run a full desktop OS, while multi-tasking, while playing games.... What does a console run on 256 mb of ram? The game and "os"... poorly.

I didn't think you did.

I only know what Sony says which is "its a PS4..." lol.

Obviously, "PS4" is a very loose term at this point.

 

[Lizard]

Are you done BSing or do you have a source?

.

Read the second part of my message and you have proof. Battlefield 3. Runs just fine on a ps3. Run it on a pc of similar scale ie 256mb of ram and I guarantee you it will not work.