PlayStation 4 General DiscussionPS4

[Slash]

I asked around at the Sony Central Store today about the PS4 Price, and 2 of the guys told me it probably won't cost more then AU$500, otherwise nobody will buy it. Keep in mind that the Australian launch price for the PS3 was $1000, so that is very exciting news for an Australian such as myself! I'm thinking it's going to be $300 in the USA, sinhce the PS3 was $600 when it launched.

That depends on your location in the US. In my area it was only available in bundles and cost $1000.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

I have never coded a game before but from what I know it wouldn't be that difficult. You're just allocating a different type of RAM (of which a PC has plenty). If someone has a Trinity AMD set up then that would probably be as close as you can get to a PS4, which brings up another point in emulation... the apu. (But how many devs will take advantage of this, when the 360 might not have one, and it really hasn't taken off in desktops?)

The cell is the reason why emulation was so tricky before...

IMO the gddr5 memory will simply make the OS and response time much snappier. Its not going to be this revelation in gaming like some are making it out to be. You're still going to have a bottlekneck in the bus, processing power of the GPU, and the hdd...

 

[Samus]

I asked around at the Sony Central Store today about the PS4 Price, and 2 of the guys told me it probably won't cost more then AU$500, otherwise nobody will buy it. Keep in mind that the Australian launch price for the PS3 was $1000, so that is very exciting news for an Australian such as myself! I'm thinking it's going to be $300 in the USA, sinhce the PS3 was $600 when it launched.

Also keep in mind they're just guessing like anyone else is, people like that would not be in the know as regards to the price.

 

[brianwong]

Yes, I know, the extra memory bandwidth is why I'm wondering whether we can possibly run an emulator at a decent speed. Particularly since the generic 2012 gaming PC is a 3570k with 8GB DDR3 and a GPU with 2-3GB GDDR5.

The extra bandwidth is most likely only for the GPU, because iirc, APUs share memory so if they went for normal RAM, the graphics would be crazy bottlenecked.

 

[sesselpupser]

I have never coded a game before but from what I know it wouldn't be that difficult. You're just allocating a different type of RAM (of which a PC has plenty). If someone has a Trinity AMD set up then that would probably be as close as you can get to a PS4, which brings up another point in emulation... the apu. (But how many devs will take advantage of this, when the 360 might not have one, and it really hasn't taken off in desktops?)

The cell is the reason why emulation was so tricky before...

IMO the gddr5 memory will simply make the OS and response time much snappier. Its not going to be this revelation in gaming like some are making it out to be. You're still going to have a bottlekneck in the bus, processing power of the GPU, and the hdd...

The extra bandwidth is most likely only for the GPU, because iirc, APUs share memory so if they went for normal RAM, the graphics would be crazy bottlenecked.

I get what you're both saying, but what if the games are coded to use more RAM for the graphics than we currently have in our graphics cards? Like, if I have 2GB GDDR5 VRAM in my GTX 680 but I want to emulate a PS4 game that uses 4GB for the textures alone (as unlikely as that may be), I'd be SOL. Right? Or wrong? I really don't know, but I do know that if the GPU in the PS4 ever needs more than my GPU in my PC has access to, there will be problems with emulating it efficiently, there must be since my GPU doesn't share my CPU's RAM. Surely?


Is this discussion too off-topic for this thread?

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

I get what you're both saying, but what if the games are coded to use more RAM for the graphics than we currently have in our graphics cards? Like, if I have 2GB GDDR5 VRAM in my GTX 680 but I want to emulate a PS4 game that uses 4GB for the textures alone (as unlikely as that may be), I'd be SOL. Right? Or wrong? I really don't know, but I do know that if the GPU in the PS4 ever needs more than my GPU in my PC has access to, there will be problems with emulating it efficiently, there must be since my GPU doesn't share my CPU's RAM. Surely?


Is this discussion too off-topic for this thread?

No, imo its completely relevant because it is the PS4.

Well, how much stuff do you need to load into RAM at this point? How much VRAM does the most graphically intensive game at 1080p use on PC right now? I would have to say that is Crysis 3 which uses around 1.5+ GB VRAM.... BF3 1.5 GB.... or Skyrim (modded) at a little over 2.0 GB with A LOT of mods....

RAM we aren't too concerned with seeing as how the typically suggested amount in a PC is 8 GB of DDR3 (with DDR4 expected to the consumer market within 1-2 years).

It is going to be a while before we start seeing over 3 GB+ VRAM being utilized for the GPU; in addition to this you're going to have a processing bottleneck with that GPU (which should be considered close to a 7850 as some have observed).

You can have all the memory in the world, but if you don't have the processing power to utilize it is just wasting space, electricity, and resources which could in fact even slow down the performance.

Now, if the devs utilized tech similar to RAMdisk, which is using large amounts of RAM as an alternative to an HDD... that of course would substantially decrease load times (as in there won't be one) that is a different story and could really be of benefit to the platform. This is simply loading the game (or required parts of it) into RAM for quick calls as opposed to reading it off a platter. So, say you're playing Call of Duty multi-player... the PS4 loads every file associated with MP into RAM... no more loading between maps.

(Sorry, I am inebriated and I go off on tangents and editing sprees).

 

[thelvynau]

That depends on your location in the US. In my area it was only available in bundles and cost $1000.

In Australia it was $1000 no bundles just the base 40gb version.

 

[brianwong]

I think that they will just load up more of the game at once, since from the specs, it runs into a CPU/GPU bottleneck.

 

[Slash]

In Australia it was $1000 no bundles just the base 40gb version.

Damn that sucks. I think for what we got it was the system, 2 games and either 1, maybe 2 controllers. At $50 a controller and $60 per game it adds up to be around $250 extra from the system itself. I still couldn't beleive they were charging $999 for it at Blockbuster and Walmart.

 

[thelvynau]

Damn that sucks. I think for what we got it was the system, 2 games and either 1, maybe 2 controllers. At $50 a controller and $60 per game it adds up to be around $250 extra from the system itself. I still couldn't beleive they were charging $999 for it at Blockbuster and Walmart.

With the taxes here im waiting until a price drop not pay 1000 again.

 

[gtone339]

I asked around at the Sony Central Store today about the PS4 Price, and 2 of the guys told me it probably won't cost more then AU$500, otherwise nobody will buy it. Keep in mind that the Australian launch price for the PS3 was $1000, so that is very exciting news for an Australian such as myself! I'm thinking it's going to be $300 in the USA, sinhce the PS3 was $600 when it launched.

Hey bud, while the price over there cost that much for the PS3/PS4. I presume that the PS4's price over here in New Zealand may cost more than $1000NZD!

Bought my 80gb PS3 for $800NZD in 2008 during boxing day.

 

[thelvynau]

Hey bud, while the price over there cost that much for the PS3/PS4. I presume that the PS4's price over here in New Zealand may cost more than $1000NZD!

Bought my 80gb PS3 for $800NZD in 2008 during boxing day.

We are getting ripped off down here.

 

[gtone339]

We are getting ripped off down here.

Yeah I know!

 

[thelvynau]

Yeah I know!

I wish I can find the article but it stated australia is taking apple, sony and microsoft to an enquiry regarding the pricing of their systems.

Here it is I hope it drops the prices for us for the ps4.

www.smh.com.au/technology/technolog...tech-prices-inquiry-hears-20120730-23991.html

 

[t.o.]

In Australia it was $1000 no bundles just the base 40gb version.

I guess it's all relevant. I don't know what people make in Australia. If a guy at McDonalds makes 80,000 a year in Australia then a G for a PS3 isn't a stretch.

 

[Tesla]

Average income per year for a typical household is about $60k.

 

[chromatic9]

Firstly, how was the PS2 a failure? The PS2 is the best selling console of all time. Secondly, I find it funny that you criticize Sony Japan for having "no clue how to serve the west" while making incorrect statements about gamers in Japan. Believe it or not, whenever you walk into a game store in Japan, you are immediately in the console section. The handheld stuff is always up/down the stairs, or in the back of the store. Yes, handhelds are increasing in popularity in Japan, but the actual home console market is healthy. As for Handhelds, if Sony actually manage to capitalize on the "play your ps4 games on the Vita" claim, they are in a very good position to expand their handheld userbase.

Wasn't on about sales, its the best selling console by far.

sales numbers show how the home console has fallen from what it was, not saying its in the gutter. Knew someone from tokyo like yorself would get all defensive

I'm not having a go at Japan, just looking how the market has shifted over the last 30 years.

 

[F1 fan]

Wasn't on about sales, its the best selling console by far.

So how was it a failure?

sales numbers show how the home console has fallen from what it was, not saying its in the gutter.

Well it is undeniable that Handheld gaming is gaining popularity, however the last gen of consoles still sold fairly well. That's why we're seeing another.

Knew someone from tokyo like yorself would get all defensive

I'm not from Tokyo, I just live here. However, it does mean that I am able to observe the local trends in gaming.

I'm not having a go at Japan, just looking how the market has shifted over the last 30 years.

I'd assume that gaming as a whole has seen steady growth for most of the last 30 years.

 

[JoRdY105]

The only reason the ps3 was so expensive, especially here in Aus, was because if the tech it had in it. Blu-ray was this brand new thing at the time an it cost a lot to make back then.
It was actually the first blu-ray player I had ever seen!

I doubt it will anywhere near those prices for a ps4! I am thinking that some games are going to need two discs though. And hopefully it will go something like a computer where it has 2 install disks and one of them plays the game. This would mean faster loading times, but the best thing would be having a 500gb HDD from standard!!

 

[chromatic9]

I know you're not from Tokyo, F1 fan. You admit the handheld popularity is undeniable, I said PS3 didn't sell well compared to PS2 in Japan, it hasn't, and handheld devices have taken over generally, where as in the eu and US both are extemely popular. You're not really saying anything to counter and reads as knee jerk reaction to certain words or poor comprehension.

however the last gen of consoles still sold fairly well. That's why we're seeing another.

Japan's 9million PS3s sold isn't the reason why we're seeing another. Now you bring "consoles" and worldwide success into it? I never said anything remotely in the lines of consoles sold poorly.

My point was how Japan and Sony was at the forefront and this is widley accepted to be not the case now, if you don't like it then you're just going to have to deal with it. If you think Sony is leading the way in online and console technology then you should have a rethink and look whats happening outside Sony.

I posed the question of its increasing irrelevance, its now become a poor middle man offering us a console which none of it has come from them, they're trying still to catch up on online and bad technology decisions of the past, they even acknowledge this in the ps4 conference. Now we have a US led PS4 with pc parts and architecture. Sony is ackowledged by me and others and the industry itself by numbers and where the innovations have come from to be a dinoasaur. They've missed many opportunities in the electronic industry, resisted online and made poor decisions to cpu and gpu architecture in PS2/3.

Sony and its old board members were once relevent in another time, now they're really trying hard to get with the times, again acknowledged by Sony a few times since the drastic fall of profits before.

I'd assume that gaming as a whole has seen steady growth for most of the last 30 years.

This was is your reply to my point how games and consoles have shifted from Japan. Gaming has indeed grown as a whole but this has nothing to do with what I've said.

Anyway, this is F1 fan, like conversing with a character from the film westworld.

 

[polarbear345]

Well, I was on amazon...


Ps4- 596

Watch Dogs- 99.99

(Sorry no links, app)

Are these just BS? Or do they hold some truth?

Ps4 was listed by 'Sony (Playstation 4) and watch dogs was listed by 'UBI SOFT (Playstation 4)'

If games are 100 bucks, that's going to be a damper on my Christmas list...

All prices are in USD.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Well, I was on amazon...


Ps4- 596

Watch Dogs- 99.99

(Sorry no links, app)

Are these just BS? Or do they hold some truth?

Ps4 was listed by 'Sony (Playstation 4) and watch dogs was listed by 'UBI SOFT (Playstation 4)'

If games are 100 bucks, that's going to be a damper on my Christmas list...

All prices are in USD.

Both of the PS4 prices are from individual sellers who just made accounts... so those are BS.

However, the Watch Dogs PS4 game is shipped/sold from Amazon so that is interesting. I would think they would set it high initially if they don't know the price; so instead of raising the price in the future they lower it.

Watch Dogs Placeholder Pricing
Please note that the current price on Watch Dogs for PlayStation 4 is a placeholder price until we receive more information from our first party and third party partners. As with all pre-orders, under Amazon's Pre-order Price Guarantee (POPG), if customers pre-order an item, then they are guaranteed the lowest price between the order date and the item's release date. We will update the price as soon as we know more. Thank you for your patience.

 

[Tornado]

Sony already said the MSRP for games on the system will stay at 60.

 

[F1 fan]

stuff

Funny how you've mocked my conversational skills when you have failed to answer a question I posed twice. So, for the third time, how exactly was the ps2 a failure? And given that the ps3 has now overtaken the 360 in worldwide sales, how was the ps3 a failure? Bearing in mind that a sizable portion of the 360 sales will have been made by people replacing rrod 360s. Yes, the ps3 wasn't perfect, but in terms of system failures, they are miles behind Microsoft.

As for the ps4 consisting of sourced parts, that is very true, but I'd keep quiet about it in the meantime. If the rumours are to be believed (and they were fairly accurate regarding the ps4) Microsoft will be following suit.

As for my comments regarding gamers in Japan, having visited more than ten game stores today (in search of an import copy of ni no kuni that doesn't cost an arm and a leg), I think I am better placed to comment on the trends of Japanese gamers. Purely speaking from a retail point of view, as soon as you walk into a games store, you are immediately greeted with huge displays of playstation and Nintendo (consiole)software. Handheld games tend to be hidden away at the back of the store.

With regards to your comments about Sony's bosses, I don't see how this is an issue. The reception to the ps4 announcement has been largely positive. So what if they had to hire the likes of Mark Cerny? It's all about getting the right people to do the job, which they clearly have. You disagree? So what? I don't care.

As for the trends of gaming over the past 30 years, you brought that up, not me. Post a link yourself. I'm not going to waste time doing your research for you. And finally, with regards to your west world comment, speak to me like that again and you and I won't be conversing again. Simple.

 

[nealcropper]

I'm not sure what chromatic Is trying to get at? As far as I can see he's miles off the truth.

How anyone can class the PS2, the best selling console of all time, a failure on ANY level, is beyond my comprehension.

Yes, PSN isn't as good as XBL. I think it's time that you MS lovers got over it. Some games look better on the XBOX because of the difficulty of developing games for the PS3. Not because the PS3 isn't as good as the XBOX, in fact the PS3 is more powerful than the XBOX. You only have to look at a XBOX exclusive and place it against a PS3 exclusive to see the actual potential of it. Also it's things like advertising games on a XBOX system but using PS3 footage tells you which is better, IMO.

Now, onto the PS4. The reason why they have gone the way they have with the hardware is the reason why they got such a battering for the way they designed the PS3. It was incredibly hard to write software for as a dev. So they included the developers in the creation of the system, ensuring that it was as easy as possible to make amazing games for whilst still staying ahead of the curve in terms of performance. How is that a bad thing? You only had to see how excited the actual developers were about the system to see the fact that we are looking at a truly brilliant step forward from Sony.

How you can criticise them for doing exactly the opposite of what everyone else was criticising them for 5-6 years ago is beyond me.

 

[Scaff]

I'm not sure what chromatic Is trying to get at? As far as I can see he's miles off the truth.

How anyone can class the PS2, the best selling console of all time, a failure on ANY level, is beyond my comprehension.

Yes, PSN isn't as good as XBL. I think it's time that you MS "fan boys" got over it. Some games look better on the XBOX because of the difficulty of developing games for the PS3. Not because the PS3 isn't as good as the XBOX, in fact the PS3 is more powerful than the XBOX. You only have to look at a XBOX exclusive and place it against a PS3 exclusive to see the actual potential of it. Also it's things like advertising games on a XBOX system but using PS3 footage tells you which is better, IMO.

Now, onto the PS4. The reason why they have gone the way they have with the hardware is the reason why they got such a battering for the way they designed the PS3. It was incredibly hard to write software for as a dev. So they included the developers in the creation of the system, ensuring that it was as easy as possible to make amazing games for whilst still staying ahead of the curve in terms of performance. How is that a bad thing? You only had to see how excited the actual developers were about the system to see the fact that we are looking at a truly brilliant step forward from Sony.

How you can criticise them for doing exactly the opposite of what everyone else was criticising them for 5-6 years ago is beyond me.

Please do not use the term 'fanboy', its use is generally derogatory and as such can and does cause arguments.

 

[nealcropper]

Please do not use the term 'fanboy', its use is generally derogatory and as such can and does cause arguments.

If that's all that is wrong with that full post then I'm happy.

Post is edited.

 

[Luminis]

How you can criticise them for doing exactly the opposite of what everyone else was criticising them for 5-6 years ago is beyond me.

While I don't see what one could criticize the PS2 for, I would assume that his point was that it took Sony these five to six years to only partially realize that using proprietary hardware for the hell of it isn't the greatest idea. Which I agree with. This might also be why people are questioning the use of GDDR5 in the PS4 as well.

I'd also think that that's partially down to philosophy, which one might criticize Sony for regardless of success. Pushing 'their' idea even though it's not the best way to get stuff done isn't the best way to do business, whether the console managed to sell well or not. Back in the day, Japan's/Sony's ideas about how to do things were the best way to get things done and this hasn't been the case anymore - which harks back to the point I made above.

Now, that's what I got from chromatic's post (coupled with my own thoughts on the topic, obviously).

 

[nealcropper]

While I don't see what one could criticize the PS2 for, I would assume that his point was that it took Sony these five to six years to only partially realize that using proprietary hardware for the hell of it isn't the greatest idea. Which I agree with. This might also be why people are questioning the use of GDDR5 in the PS4 as well.

I'd also think that that's partially down to philosophy, which one might criticize Sony for regardless of success. Pushing 'their' idea even though it's not the best way to get stuff done isn't the best way to do business, whether the console managed to sell well or not. Back in the day, Japan's/Sony's ideas about how to do things were the best way to get things done and this hasn't been the case anymore - which harks back to the point I made above.

Now, that's what I got from chromatic's post (coupled with my own thoughts on the topic, obviously).

I was talking about the PS3, everyone was harping on Sony for using a cell processor, for the reasons I have outlined in my last post.

And now they have done the exact opposite, that's not even good enough. From what I can see the new PS4 is a developers dream.

 

[dhandeh]

If that's all that is wrong with that full post then I'm happy.

Post is edited.

I see what you done there.