PlayStation 4 General DiscussionPS4

[sems4arsenal]

Easter egg.
Maybe SONY will reveal the PS4 at easter?

That weirdly kind of makes sense.

 

[sesselpupser]

IMO games based on stories (Metal Gear, God of War, and whatever else, should die after the 3rd game, sometimes even the 2nd game. They're only kept alive for so long because they sale, and devs arent willing to move on past something that sells. I have to give it to David Cage for refusing to make all that Heavy Rain DLC because he wanted to move on to something else. Can you imagine instead of Beyond Two Souls we could be getting Heavy Rain 2 this holiday season? Thats why all these sequels should really die, b ut they wont as long as they sale or theres a rare gem like David Cage

Well that's any credibility you might've had out the window.

David Cage makes slightly interactive films that look good, and you're saying you aren't easily impressed by graphics and prefer gameplay (which you then contradict anyway)? You honestly believe the reason he dropped Heavy Rain DLC was his desire to move on to other things and not the fact that the first one was terrible and no one bought it? I got it for free and didn't even play it all the way through.

You also think that any sequel to a game that tells a story is just a cynical cash-in and not a genuine attempt to tell a story in more than one or two parts? How about this: Sports games, online shooters and basically anything without a story is very, very cheap to make (because you don't need pre-rendered video, voice actors, writers, cutscenes and so on) yet they sell for the same amount as games with stories. Not to mention the fact that most iterative games like Call of Duty share the same engine and just pile some new, some re-used assets on top, thus keeping development costs and therefore profit margins high.

Yet you think it's the Metal Gear Solid 3's and 4's of this world that are the cynical cash-ins!

David Cage, a rare gem in the gaming industry! I might have to sig that.

 

[stiggygonzalez]

@earth.
Yes of course graphics matter I love outstanding HD visuals but gameplay is most important right?
The hardware advancements are very good for PS4,stable frame rates and online play will of course improve and give more than PS3.
I've had my slim since '10 so I'm not quite ready yet for an upgrade but considering you've had yours for 7 years I can understan why your ready for the PS4.
I look forward to seeing the reviews and more in-depth info about the PS4.

 

[Caz]

Neema, only time ive disagreed with you is on heavy rain.
Ues it is more an interactive choose your own adventure type movie, but it was an incredibly captivating story. I was hooked at the boring mall scene, but being a parent of a child the same age ( at the time) it gripped me.

On topic
Bring on the ps4! Ive been setting 15$ aside per week since announcement and will be preordering.
Graphics, framerate, install times etc are looking to be a big improvement. If it plays the games i like to play but better then im happy.

I have had a ps3 since launch and am still excited for the games to come on it. I will most likely still be buying some ps3 games while the 4 is on my entertainment center. Just because its ancient hardware by computer standards doesnt hold weight with me. It is constant hardware.

 

[sesselpupser]

Neema, only time ive disagreed with you is on heavy rain.
Ues it is more an interactive choose your own adventure type movie, but it was an incredibly captivating story. I was hooked at the boring mall scene, but being a parent of a child the same age ( at the time) it gripped me.

Well my point was that it doesn't have a lot of gameplay, does it? It is, in my opinion, a glorified point & click (by the way, that's not an attempt to slate it, I liked Heavy Rain and I love point & click adventures) except instead of clicking where you want to go you control the character directly, and instead of clicking on things you press buttons, tap buttons, move the sticks or move the controller. At the end of the day, you're simply triggering a scripted event, otherwise known as a quick time event... And aren't they just the best thing? Sarcasm aside, it worked for Heavy Rain because you could influence the story by passing or failing these QTEs, but I just don't consider that to be gameplay.

Then, following on from that, it's just incomprehensible how someone can say David Cage is a rare gem in the gaming industry when his games have little gameplay (no matter how good the story is), yet - according to Earth - Hideo Kojima should have stopped the Metal Gear Solid franchise at Metal Gear Solid because the rest were only made to make money. Even though they had a story and gameplay and were very cinematic, just like Heavy Rain was.

However, he (or she) continued to say that sports and racing games, which re-use assets and engine tech all the time to keep costs low and profits high, are fine.


To bring this back to the topic again, I'm not convinced the next generation of consoles will really fix what's really wrong with gaming, which is the over-casualisation of mainstream games (compare Hitman: Absolution with Hitman: Blood Money), decreasing average single player campaign length (compare Crysis with Crysis 3, Medal of Honour with Medal of Honour 2010) in favour of spending less money and time, instead focusing on making an online-centric game instead (compare Tomb Raider with Tomb Raider 2012). Oh and the endless sequels and reboots which are surely a sign of a stagnating industry.

These are the issues the new generation has to fix, everything else is a by-product or bonus. In fact, I don't think the current struggle to have the most graphics is really helping, surely that just pushes production costs up and means publishers are less willing to take risks on new IPs?

 

[Luminis]

Well, there's a reason why a lot of actually innovative games are created by some indy developers. I can only point to Reus: That teeny weeny indy game is shaping up to provide a lot more in terms of "gameplay" than many AAA titles did over the past few years. I mean, I'm as much of a graphics junky as the next guy (there's a reason I'm willing to waste more cash on a GPU than most would on a console), but this is seriously worrysome.

One of the best examples of the current sorry state of the video game industry has to be the MMO market. Everyone and their mother tries to push WoW aside - or so it seems. Yet, nobody ever dares to do something innovative. Most developers are just cloning WoW time and time again, only changing a few features here and there. And they're like "Wow, how could our game possibly not do well?!" afterwards.

Hell, I'm about as creative as a goddamn log of wood and I'd probably be able to come up with something more original than most of what we've seem published by EA and Activision over the last few years. Thing is, it works. And it seems to work well. You've got to wonder how long it'll continue to work well as, at some point, even the most casual of gamers will (supposedly) start to crave something that isn't an annual iteration of a game they've already played for three years.

The PS4 isn't gonna make that happen. And neither is the next Xbox going to do that. Even the Wii U won't - and Nintendo's trying it's hardest to be "innovative" with it. Suffice to say, it's not the hardware that'll break this trend. It's how it's used and about a shift in what the audience demands. I, for one, would be more than happy if games returned to some more old-school design choices. I don't even need hyper innovative stuff. Some goold, old fashioned single player stuff that offers a good challenge and a neat, fun multiplayer mode to go with it - with the focus being on the single player experience (not vice versa). Without super crazy DRM and craploads of DLC.

Too much to ask, I know.

 

[Ranman20]

Games I want to comeback for next gen PS4

Shenmue
Sega GT
BLACK( shooting game)
Counter Strike
Megaman X series
Ape Escape

I'll add more when I can think of more.

 

[Earth]

Yes but not RAM used purely for GRAPHICS, which is all the RAM on a PC GPU is used for. Everything else uses the system memory. 3.5GB may have been dedicated to games but there is no way it would all be used for graphics, 1080p games simply wouldn't need that much and there is no way the rest of the game could survive on 512Mb of system RAM.

As for "being a fool" to build an $800 haven't people already told you that you're wrong about that in other threads? Plus that wasn't your original point anyway, you said you'd have to spend $800 to get a PC equivelent to the PS4. You wouldn't, as I say it's been explained to you in other thread already.

All of that has been discussed in other threads, so I'll leave it at that.

Well that's any credibility you might've had out the window.

David Cage makes slightly interactive films that look good, and you're saying you aren't easily impressed by graphics and prefer gameplay (which you then contradict anyway)? You honestly believe the reason he dropped Heavy Rain DLC was his desire to move on to other things and not the fact that the first one was terrible and no one bought it? I got it for free and didn't even play it all the way through.

You also think that any sequel to a game that tells a story is just a cynical cash-in and not a genuine attempt to tell a story in more than one or two parts? How about this: Sports games, online shooters and basically anything without a story is very, very cheap to make (because you don't need pre-rendered video, voice actors, writers, cutscenes and so on) yet they sell for the same amount as games with stories. Not to mention the fact that most iterative games like Call of Duty share the same engine and just pile some new, some re-used assets on top, thus keeping development costs and therefore profit margins high.

Yet you think it's the Metal Gear Solid 3's and 4's of this world that are the cynical cash-ins!

David Cage, a rare gem in the gaming industry! I might have to sig that.

Hideo Kojima has become a joke to me. Hes been making Metal Gear games for what, 25 years now? And they're all a rip off of Escape from New York, even down to smallest details. Yeah I liked Metal Gear Solid. MGS2 was OK at best. MGS3, blah, couldnt even make it through MGS4. Im looking at the latest Metal Gear game, whatever its called, and I see the fruity Raiden is back yet again, dressed up in some bizarre pointless "mech" outfit in a vain attempt to make him look "cool". And oh joy, look, snake is back sneaking into enemy territories. Why cant Kojima take his gameplay style and base it around a new game, with new characters, possibly even a new world? That would be infinitely more exciting for me.

Look at the best film directors. They direct 1 movie about a story/world, maybe 2, in rare instances 3. Never anymore. They realize at that point the story has been played out and its time to move on to something new.

With games stories, sadly, are usually set a side in favor of gameplay. Yeah its a rehash of the same story (usually a story that would barely pass as a B movie) but who cares the gameplay was good. And what a modern gamer considers good gameplay is not what I consider good gameplay. With Tomb Raider I want heavy puzzles and heavy platofrming, like the first 2 games on the Playstation 1. This new Tomb Raider appears to be heavy shooting and fire fights (which the first 2 games were extremely light on) and heavily scripted Hollywood quick time events.

Heavy Rain was the first game since...I cant even remember the last time I had the motivation to play through a game like I did with Heavy Rain. It put story ahead of gameplay. David Cage said he'll make future games, starting with Beyond, more interactive and less reliant on quick time events.

And

"David Cage is a genius. If Tim [Schafer - a "really good friend"] isn't the best writer in gaming, David is.

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/19746...ctor-commends-david-cages-work-on-heavy-rain/

 

[Ranman20]

MGS 1- 4 was fun. 4 had a really good story. But Rising was a embarrasment.

 

[THOMASBARNES]

RE the lack of innovation of most games today I do sort of agree I focus on racing but surely with the next-gen consoles they can come up with new ideas what about using something like Google Maps to make tracks from anywhere in the world from Tokyo to Newcastle that would be great

(It probably wouldn't happen but you get my point)

 

[Tornado]

Hideo Kojima has become a joke to me. Hes been making Metal Gear games for what, 25 years now? And they're all a rip off of Escape from New York, even down to smallest details. Yeah I liked Metal Gear Solid. MGS2 was OK at best. MGS3, blah, couldnt even make it through MGS4. Im looking at the latest Metal Gear game, whatever its called, and I see the fruity Raiden is back yet again, dressed up in some bizarre pointless "mech" outfit in a vain attempt to make him look "cool". And oh joy, look, snake is back sneaking into enemy territories. Why cant Kojima take his gameplay style and base it around a new game, with new characters, possibly even a new world? That would be infinitely more exciting for me.

It's funny that you use Rising as proof of why you don't respect Kojima when he had about as much to do with its development as Kazunori Yamauchi did.

Look at the best film directors. They direct 1 movie about a story/world, maybe 2, in rare instances 3. Never anymore. They realize at that point the story has been played out and its time to move on to something new.

Film directors also aren't game directors, since, you know, the industries are different.


Also:

That's off the top of my head, too.

With games stories, sadly, are usually set a side in favor of gameplay. Yeah its a rehash of the same story (usually a story that would barely pass as a B movie) but who cares the gameplay was good. And what a modern gamer considers good gameplay is not what I consider good gameplay. With Tomb Raider I want heavy puzzles and heavy platofrming, like the first 2 games on the Playstation 1. This new Tomb Raider appears to be heavy shooting and fire fights (which the first 2 games were extremely light on) and heavily scripted Hollywood quick time events.

Heavy Rain was the first game since...I cant even remember the last time I had the motivation to play through a game like I did with Heavy Rain. It put story ahead of gameplay. David Cage said he'll make future games, starting with Beyond, more interactive and less reliant on quick time events.

You mean stories in GAMES take a backseat to the GAMEplay in GAMES, except for the one example that was criticized to hell and back for being a glorified tech demo for QTEs?


Fancy that.

 

[Terronium-12]

Hideo Kojima has become a joke to me. Hes been making Metal Gear games for what, 25 years now? And they're all a rip off of Escape from New York, even down to smallest details.

I'll give you points for references, but every game? Sources are needed.

Yeah I liked Metal Gear Solid. MGS2 was OK at best. MGS3, blah, couldnt even make it through MGS4. Im looking at the latest Metal Gear game, whatever its called, and I see the fruity Raiden is back yet again, dressed up in some bizarre pointless "mech" outfit in a vain attempt to make him look "cool".

Actually, Kojima had little to do with Revengenace. In fact, if it weren't for Platinum Games coming along MGR would be dead in the water to this day.

Oh, and their "vain attempt to make him look cool" happened in MGS 4. And guess what? It worked.

And oh joy, look, snake is back sneaking into enemy territories. Why cant Kojima take his gameplay style and base it around a new game, with new characters, possibly even a new world? That would be infinitely more exciting for me.

You do realize it's not the same Snake in every single game, right? And this isn't even including Raiden when he took up the name "Solid Snake" for a short while.

Look at the best film directors. They direct 1 movie about a story/world, maybe 2, in rare instances 3. Never anymore. They realize at that point the story has been played out and its time to move on to something new.

That's because they're too busy remaking and re-imagining movies from 5, 10, 15 or even 20 years ago.

With games stories, sadly, are usually set a side in favor of gameplay. Yeah its a rehash of the same story (usually a story that would barely pass as a B movie) but who cares the gameplay was good.

You mean to tell me gameplay takes center stage in a video game? NO WAY!

And what a modern gamer considers good gameplay is not what I consider good gameplay. With Tomb Raider I want heavy puzzles and heavy platofrming, like the first 2 games on the Playstation 1. This new Tomb Raider appears to be heavy shooting and fire fights (which the first 2 games were extremely light on) and heavily scripted Hollywood quick time events.

So, now you're complaining that a game that's chiefly action and adventure has too much action in it? Here's a little anecdote that may serve you well before saying things like that again: to bring forth the same of anything from years past is a fruitless endeavor. Which basically means if you want something that plays exactly like the originals - play the originals.

I'll also leave this here for you:

 

[dice1998]

Hideo Kojima has become a joke to me. Hes been making Metal Gear games for what, 25 years now? And they're all a rip off of Escape from New York, even down to smallest details.

Really? Every single Metal Gear game (including MGR:R) all blatantly ripped off Escape From New York? All Metal Gear games took place in a maximum security prison called New York city where terrorists shoot down air force one and kurt russel has to rescue the president because he has information about nuclear fission and is injected knowingly with a BOMB (i think he was). and will gain his freedom if he rescues the president?

Every. Single. Metal. Gear. Game?

You, sir, with your framebuffer jibba jabba and now this. You blew my mind.

Yeah I liked Metal Gear Solid. MGS2 was OK at best. MGS3, blah, couldnt even make it through MGS4.

So every metal gear game has been a ripoff of escape from new york but you haven't even finished MGS4. Go figure.

Im looking at the latest Metal Gear game, whatever its called, and I see the fruity Raiden is back yet again, dressed up in some bizarre pointless "mech" outfit in a vain attempt to make him look "cool". And oh joy, look, snake is back sneaking into enemy territories.

Go figure. One being handled primarily by Platinum Games where, as said, had as much say as David Cage did. (something like what Toronado said). The most Kojima was make sure that the story of Rising made sense in his Metal Gear Universe. He wasn't a director or game designer and he didn't write the story.
And then there's Ground Zeroes. You seem to be under the impression that "Snake" is the same "Snake" in every single metal gear game. But you're the Metal Gear/Kojima Expert so why should I question you?

Why cant Kojima take his gameplay style and base it around a new game, with new characters, possibly even a new world? That would be infinitely more exciting for me.

Oh god, that would be great. If only he made a mecha game.

Wait, Zone of the Enders.

How about a cyberpunk-themed graphic adventure game?
Damn, Snatcher.

Botkai
Castlevania: Lords of shadow?
Policenauts?

You know what? None of the games you have are Hideo Kojima games. None of them. None. Whatsoever.

With games stories, sadly, are usually set a side in favor of gameplay.

Go figure.

Heavy Rain was the first game since...I cant even remember the last time I had the motivation to play through a game like I did with Heavy Rain. It put story ahead of gameplay. David Cage said he'll make future games, starting with Beyond, more interactive and less reliant on quick time events.

So..you like interactive movies but you don't like games with gameplay but want games with gameplay but also want story.




You know what? I'm just going to go to my car, in the blazing florida sun, smash my head against the hood, and scream "Attica" or "Bloody Mary" for the next 3 hours.

Hopefully after this session, things will make more sense to me than it does now.

 

[Samus]

Yeah I'm failing to understand any logic here either.

 

[Luminis]

And they're all a rip off of Escape from New York, even down to smallest details. Yeah I liked Metal Gear Solid. MGS2 was OK at best. MGS3, blah, couldnt even make it through MGS4.

I'd be willing to (sort of) agree with MGS4 because, personally, I thought it was too much of an interactive movie/too focused on the story, which annoyed me. Despite that, the Story still wasn't that bad, albeit a bit over the top. However, looking down on MGS2 and 3? Those were easily among the best games on the PS2. And MGS3, in particular, is the kind of sequel I actually like: It added to the game's story in meaningful ways (by following a different character [which 2 did, too, to an extend] to keep things fresh) and it managed to incorporate entirely new gameplay elements into the game.

You could use a lot of games to further your point. MGS is the wrong franchise, in my opinion.

Look at the best film directors. They direct 1 movie about a story/world, maybe 2, in rare instances 3. Never anymore.

Tarantino's delivered his ninth movie as a director and I'll be damned if that wasn't one of the better flicks this year.

With Tomb Raider I want heavy puzzles and heavy platofrming, like the first 2 games on the Playstation 1.

Just so I get this straight.

You dislike MGS for rehashing stuff. You then complain about Tom Raider not rehashing stuff. Do you just come up with some random stuff to prove your imaginary point or is there some (contradictory) logic behind that? Combined with the points others brought up... Well, there are so many holes in your "logic" that I've got to wonder how you actually manage to convince yourself of what you're saying...

 

[LaBounti]

I see what you're saying, but I think the big ticket games- example Far Cry 3, that are also developed for consoles, need to have certain limitations that otherwise would not be there on the PC port. Things in the game world that cannot be changed because they directly involve the story in the game, and graphic and artistic decisions that need to be "dumbed down" to be able to run on old hardware, those things sometimes carry over to the PC port.

I guess yes, that only applies to high level games. I mean simple games will run on anything.

Another argument could be made that such huge games would not exist at all if not for consoles and the sales they generate, so it is kind of a catch-22 anyways. But I think in general, my high end gaming PC could do more if games didn't have to also be able to be scaled down to also run on very old hardware as well.

The catch 22 I mentioned will not be such a bad thing if the console is much more powerful and up to date though.. I think a powerful/ updated console market will help developers make bigger, better and more complex games for the PC in the future.

You are absolutely right.

 

[stiggygonzalez]

Can someone clarify this for me?
How much would an equivalent spec gaming PC cost compared to PS4?

 

[priesty_lfc]

Can someone clarify this for me?
How much would an equivalent spec gaming PC cost compared to PS4?

Pretty sure I've seen this question asked on this thread plus in gaming websites forums a couple of times.

Then general consensus seems to be £900-£1000 but as I have no idea re PC I'm not sure how accurate that is......

 

[sesselpupser]

Can someone clarify this for me?
How much would an equivalent spec gaming PC cost compared to PS4?

What was wrong with the link I posted for you? They thought £800 without an OS for a really good box which is close to being considered a high end PC in it's own right (top of the line quad core processor, AMD 7950 graphics card which is only one step down from their top of the line model), not just a PS4 equivalent. Applying some logic to that build you could probably get it down to under £600 if you opted for a hard drive rather than SSD, a 7850 and a slower CPU, not to mention the fact that they built it around a Bitfenix Prodigy case which is about £70, there are cheaper (but less attractive and bigger) cases around.

So for the sake of argument I'll say £700 with an OS.

Pretty sure I've seen this question asked on this thread plus in gaming websites forums a couple of times.

Then general consensus seems to be £900-£1000 but as I have no idea re PC I'm not sure how accurate that is......

To rival a PS4 or completely blow it out of the water? If it's the former, they're mad. My PC was 'just over' £1,000 and I think most people would agree it's more than a rival to the PS4, to put it politely!

 

[stiggygonzalez]

@neemat.
Ok thanks.

 

[Samus]

AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz processor - £130
Motherboard - £50
8GB DDR3 system RAM - £40
HD7850 2GB Graphics card - £145
500GB HDD - £48
Case/PSU - £60
Blu-Ray drive - £44 (Not strictly necessary but PS4 has one)
Windows 8 - £60

Total - £577

However until we get some true figures of the PS4 hardware it's hard to say just what you would need to "match" it.

 

[LaBounti]

But it costs more than PS4 so how is that matching? That's is like $740 U.S. Both systems will be able to run the exact same games. I am getting a new PC and my budget is $700. Ordered a 7870 and a power supply already for $250 plus Bioshock inf. and Tomb raider. 2 games I don't plan on getting for Ps3 ever.

 

[Samus]

Matching performance. He asked what you would need to pay to match the PS4 performance. Remember though when you build a PC you're not just getting a gaming device, you're getting a general use PC as well. You don't get that with a console.

Also that may be above a PS4 in performance, we don't know exactly yet.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Matching performance. He asked what you would need to pay to match the PS4 performance. Remember though when you build a PC you're not just getting a gaming device, you're getting a general use PC as well. You don't get that with a console.

Also that may be above a PS4 in performance, we don't know exactly yet.

We do know quite a lot of their current plans. CPU wise, what you have chosen should be ahead of PS4. It will be a low clocked 8 core based on AMD's yet to be released Jaguar cores. GPU is a bit bespoke so something like 7850 with added compute performance.

Probably cost about £450 or less for similar performance on release of PS4. PS4 should hold an advantage in performance compared to similar parts due to 8GB GDDR5 unified memory and some dedicated compute stuff probably included so a less powerful CPU than ideal could be used. Games will also be heavily optimized for that platform. However a system with 7870 could probably be included for £450 or under by then so will give performance advantage to PC.

 

[stiggygonzalez]

Matching performance. He asked what you would need to pay to match the PS4 performance. Remember though when you build a PC you're not just getting a gaming device, you're getting a general use PC as well. You don't get that with a console.

Also that may be above a PS4 in performance, we don't know exactly yet.

Hopefully PS4 will feature more apps than PS3 and a better browser.

 

[dice1998]

OtherOS is all I want.

 

[stiggygonzalez]

OtherOS is all I want.

Perhaps with the PS4's power a decent OS like a PC could be implemented.

 

[gtone339]

[FAKE] PS4 concept design 2013:

 

[Luminis]

Perhaps with the PS4's power a decent OS like a PC could be implemented.

You'd lose a lot of the advantages of iz being a console, though...

 

[stiggygonzalez]

AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz processor - £130
Motherboard - £50
8GB DDR3 system RAM - £40
HD7850 2GB Graphics card - £145
500GB HDD - £48
Case/PSU - £60
Blu-Ray drive - £44 (Not strictly necessary but PS4 has one)
Windows 8 - £60

Total - £577

However until we get some true figures of the PS4 hardware it's hard to say just what you would need to "match" it.

Thanks for the info.