Poll: Do Kaz and PD listen to gamers?

[danjama]

Some of you guys are so damn stupid, I'm surprised you don't drown in your own piss.

All we see day after day on this forum are tons of threads going "bitch, bitch, bitch grind" or "bitch, bitch, bitch, credits"

So PD provides us with WEEKLY events that earn you gobs of credit, and gobs of experience, for FREE. That with reasonable skill, you can complete with a stock car YOU WOULDN'T NORMALLY DRIVE FOR BLOODY FREE

No monthly fee, no DLC, these are FREE updates provided for US the consumer weekly.

If you don't like it, sell your god damn game, and use the money to go get yourself an education in common sense...

Well said my friend, couldn't have put it better myself. This place has been nothing but a downer for the last 6/7 weeks.

As for the OP, yes, I do think they listen to GT players. No i don't think they listen to general games...why should they have to? What relevance do general gamers have to GT?

The seasonal events, i'll take them as they give them to me, and be happy. PD just can't frickin win these days. Some people...

 

[Jacob6875]

I don't understand your issue....

Look at typical opponents and tune your car close to the most powerful person in the field.

If you want a "challenge" just do that......... or race online.

EDIT: Also did we really need another post whining about this?

 

[ACSR421]

The fact that they removed the restrictions on the second events when the third events started has me concerned a little that this is the direction they have chosen for the future of these events. I just try to do them with a stock car as previously mentioned and won't complain about any new free content ever. I will say though the Prius event wasn't happening for me with a stock car, I hate that thing. Keep them coming PD if I have to restrict myself like I do in the A-spec races anyway, I'm fine with that.

 

[DrSibo]

Guys, look at it like this. With restrictions, the casual gamer just will not be able to complete these challenges. But without restrictions, you can make it as hard or easy as you want, so hardcore drivers (who should already be good enough to be able to tell how much tuning they need to be competitive by looking at the typical opponents), can have a challenge if they really want to, and the casuals can make it more reachable for them. Also, remember, when you start tuning some of these cars, your profit margin rapidly drops, so the less tuning you do, the more money your really making.
ex. Racing softs (36k), high RPM turbo (20k), stage 3 weight reduction (20k), that is probably worth more than the car it self in many cases.

agree completely

 

[Jebon]

To OP, if you don't like the no restrictions. Why don't you just buy the stock car & enter the race?

 

[alfredchiwai]

To OP, if you don't like the no restrictions. Why don't you just buy the stock car & enter the race?

1st post: It's more challenging and funny when you are restricted by a standard and overcoming them, which means you could reach a certain level of game. The situation is same as licenses - we got gold and feel we are good. Similarly, if we have restrictions on events and gain the rewards, we'll feel more satisfied and could prove that we are good enough. That is the fun. Passing all A-spec and seasonal events with self-restrictions only can't tell how good you are and can't give that sort of satisfaction.

 

[Jebon]

1st post: It's more challenging and funny when you are restricted by a standard and overcoming them, which means you could reach a certain level of game. The situation is same as licenses - we got gold and feel we are good. Similarly, if we have restrictions on events and gain the rewards, we'll feel more satisfied and could prove that we are good enough. That is the fun. Passing all A-spec and seasonal events with self-restrictions only can't tell how good you are and can't give that sort of satisfaction.

Agree on restrictions give us more satisfaction when achieve gold in the event (like most of us did in event 1 & 2). The feeling of overtake the 1st place during last corner is totally satisfying than won it 20-30 sec ahead.

But PD can't satisfied everyone. When they decides to remove the restrictions, it's probably majority of players wants that.
Without restrictions, it's up to you to won it easy way or the hard way.

For me, since the only events left to complete is the ultra long Endurance events (still in level 27) & feel like didn't want to repeat Extreme Events over & over again, the non-restrictions event is the best & easy way to level-up & gain some cr.

 

[alfredchiwai]

Agree on restrictions give us more satisfaction when achieve gold in the event (like most of us did in event 1 & 2). The feeling of overtake the 1st place during last corner is totally satisfying than won it 20-30 sec ahead.

But PD can't satisfied everyone. When they decides to remove the restrictions, it's probably majority of players wants that.
Without restrictions, it's up to you to won it easy way or the hard way.

For me, since the only events left to complete is the ultra long Endurance events (still in level 27) & feel like didn't want to repeat Extreme Events over & over again, the non-restrictions event is the best & easy way to level-up & gain some cr.

So, as 1st post said, one seasonal event or recommended restrictions is the way to solve the problem of not satisfying all kinds of gamers.

 

[JediRage]

Some of you guys are so damn stupid, I'm surprised you don't drown in your own piss.

All we see day after day on this forum are tons of threads going "bitch, bitch, bitch grind" or "bitch, bitch, bitch, credits"

So PD provides us with WEEKLY events that earn you gobs of credit, and gobs of experience, for FREE. That with reasonable skill, you can complete with a stock car YOU WOULDN'T NORMALLY DRIVE FOR BLOODY FREE

No monthly fee, no DLC, these are FREE updates provided for US the consumer weekly.

If you don't like it, sell your god damn game, and use the money to go get yourself an education in common sense...

Sony/PD is our saviour. Thou shall not want.
Have you made a hymm booklet in their praise?

If PD would listen, they would've fixed the online architecture.

 

[Devedander]

I have to agree that the majority of people probably found the seasonal challenges too hard so while PD didn't listen to ME they probably accomodated the masses.

However I have to point out the masses already have all of Aspec, practice and Arcade to do exactly what they want... so I still hold it against PD for taking away the only part of the game many of us felt they did right.

That said, there were much better ways to do it... offering optional restrictions with a bonus payout for meeting the restrictions being the most obvious.

As for those who keep touting "just don't upgrade" please see my sig and the numerous existing threads on restricitng yourself. The suggestion just holds no water and isn't at all a reasonable replacement for restrictions.

 

[alfredchiwai]

I don't understand your issue....

Look at typical opponents and tune your car close to the most powerful person in the field.

If you want a "challenge" just do that......... or race online.

EDIT: Also did we really need another post whining about this?

I am not complaining (not even whining) and I just want to express my thoughts, a move that will benefit us as well as PD because they will sell GT5 or GT6 better

 

[Devedander]

Aah, not this nonsense again. Are we going to have one after each seasonal event update?!! Don't tune your car, don't use any assistance and use comfort tyres. There, done.

To OP, if you don't like the no restrictions. Why don't you just buy the stock car & enter the race?

I don't understand your issue....

Look at typical opponents and tune your car close to the most powerful person in the field.

If you want a "challenge" just do that......... or race online.

EDIT: Also did we really need another post whining about this?

To all you who keep saying "just run stock" why don't you try your own advice for a while and see if it can actually work... because some of the races just aren't doable stock... the problem is how do you KNOW it's not doable? As I have said many time before, I spent dozens of laps down 10+ seconds on the Focus challenge.... but it's doable... so if I am down 10 seconds routinely on one of the new challenges, do I upgrade or not?

If not I am very likely racing a race I can NEVER win and that's no fun... that's just a frustrating waste of time.

And if I do then I have just started on the slippery slope that takes me away from getting better to meet a challenge and put me on the path of making the game easier until I can beat it at my current kill level.

THAT'S why restrcitions are important. They give you a goal you know can be done but is challenging. It's then not just a case of making the race easier via upgrades until you can win or getting an equal car to the best in the field...

I just try to do them with a stock car as previously mentioned and won't complain about any new free content ever. I will say though the Prius event wasn't happening for me with a stock car, I hate that thing.

And there you go... that's why "just limit yourself" or "just run stock" doesn't cut it as an excuse... neither of them is at all the same as being given a challenging but achievable goal.

 

[theignoramus]

To all you who keep saying "just run stock" why don't you try your own advice for a while and see if it can actually work... because some of the races just aren't doable stock... the problem is how do you KNOW it's not doable? As I have said many time before, I spent dozens of laps down 10+ seconds on the Focus challenge.... but it's doable... so if I am down 10 seconds routinely on one of the new challenges, do I upgrade or not?

If not I am very likely racing a race I can NEVER win and that's no fun... that's just a frustrating waste of time.

And if I do then I have just started on the slippery slope that takes me away from getting better to meet a challenge and put me on the path of making the game easier until I can beat it at my current kill level.

THAT'S why restrcitions are important. They give you a goal you know can be done but is challenging. It's then not just a case of making the race easier via upgrades until you can win or getting an equal car to the best in the field...



And there you go... that's why "just limit yourself" or "just run stock" doesn't cut it as an excuse... neither of them is at all the same as being given a challenging but achievable goal.

Which events from the last seasonal update 3 werent achievable with a stock car, custom transmission and hard,medium, or soft racing tires? I want the names of those events. if you cant even bothered to experiment with tires and transmission settings and want to restrict yourself to sports tires and tuning, that's your own fault.

 

[MowTin]

To OP, if you don't like the no restrictions. Why don't you just buy the stock car & enter the race?

You know that joy you get when you finally gold a license you've been struggling with forever? That happy dance? It's just not the same when you overcome a self-imposed challenge.

I think that's a valid point.

 

[amar212]

THAT'S why restrcitions are important. They give you a goal you know can be done but is challenging. It's then not just a case of making the race easier via upgrades until you can win or getting an equal car to the best in the field...

This.

I have spent many, may hours in order to produce a valuable challenge for #3 Seasonal Events. Results can be seen here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=159986

However, it was long, hard and painfull process, especially with Prius/Lotus/TTS races. It takes very much time, concentration and driving skill to justify even the slightest decrease of HP in order to make some challenge doable.

Which events from the last seasonal update 3 werent achievable with a stock car?

All of them, except the C4 WRC race.

Of course, you are using wrong idea of "stock". Stock car is non-modified car in any way, including tyre-compund or oil change. Only SE#3 race that could be won with stock car was C4WRC race. However, it takes driver much better than me to pull-off constant 1.16 laps with the 316HP (oil change will get it up to 335 where it becomes much easier).

Of course, we're speaking about all-aids-off driving, with exclusion of ABS(1).

And yes, previous restrictions were pretty much very important for all of us serious racers because it gave us a benchmark for challenge.

I would never believe RX-7 or Focus ST event were doable if there was no restriction applied which gave us the idea it can actually be done.

Removal of restrictions - without giving any "benchmark" info - done great thing for casual and grinder base, but it pretty much alienated all serious and hard-core drivers.

And that is not good, because now casuals have no accomplishment-meter in order to improve their skills (benefit for them) and hard-core looses their valuable challenge.

It is pretty much a loose-loose situation in my book.

However, I voted "yes" in the OP because I think PD gives more attention to userbase than Average Joe thinks.

 

[Jebon]

This.

I have spent many, may hours in order to produce a valuable challenge for #3 Seasonal Events. Results can be seen here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=159986

However, it was long, hard and painfull process, especially with Prius/Lotus/TTS races. It takes very much time, concentration and driving skill to justify even the slightest decrease of HP in order to make some challenge doable.



All of them, except the C4 WRC race.

Of course, you are using wrong idea of "stock". Stock car is non-modified car in any way, including tyre-compund or oil change. Only SE#3 race that could be won with stock car was C4WRC race. However, it takes driver much better than me to pull-off constant 1.16 laps with the 316HP (oil change will get it up to 335 where it becomes much easier).

Of course, we're speaking about all-aids-off driving, with exclusion of ABS(1).

And yes, previous restrictions were pretty much very important for all of us serious racers because it gave us a benchmark for challenge.

I would never believe RX-7 or Focus ST event were doable if there was no restriction applied which gave us the idea it can actually be done.

Removal of restrictions - without giving any "benchmark" info - done great thing for casual and grinder base, but it pretty much alienated all serious and hard-core drivers.

And that is not good, because now casuals have no accomplishment-meter in order to improve their skills (benefit for them) and hard-core looses their valuable challenge.

It is pretty much a loose-loose situation in my book.

However, I voted "yes" in the OP because I think PD gives more attention to userbase than Average Joe thinks.

How did you categorized between casual & hardcore racers?
Is casual = GT5 2-3 hours per day or Hardcore = GT5 10-24 hours per day?

My friend who plays GT around 2-3 hours per day(which should be categorized under casual), can get Gold in all license & gold in all special events which even a so-called 'hardcore' racers cant achieve that.

 

[amar212]

How did you categorized between casual & hardcore racers?
Is casual = GT5 2-3 hours per day or Hardcore = GT5 10-24 hours per day?

My friend who plays GT around 2-3 hours per day(which should be categorized under casual), can get Gold in all license & gold in all special events which even a so-called 'hardcore' racers cant achieve that.

OK, maybe term isn't 100% appropriate in the era of mainstream internet.

Change "hard-core" into "skilled" for the sake of conversation.

But the point remains.

 

[the Interceptor]

Do Kaz and PD listen to gamers? Yes and no.

Just yesterday, I was thinking how Kaz has this distinct vision of what Gran Turismo should be in his head, a vision he has been pursuing for many years now. That he does listen to the outside was demonstrated neatly in interviews and tweets before the release of GT5. He was clearly responding to player inputs and started considering things he didn't think of before. That however is the crux of the matter: he still checks whether these ideas fit into his personal vision of Gran Turismo, and he will only put them in if he deems them valuable enough.

To be blunt, we wouldn't be in this thread today if this man wouldn't have transported his vision into reality. At the same time, him having this vision is what limits PD as developers of the game. The goal they try to achieve is not to produce a good game. They just try to bring Kazunori's vision to life. That is a totally different thing, and something which clearly decreased the overall quality of Gran Turismo 5 in my opinion.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

My conclusion.

PD did listen:

* some people are less talented or less into the game: they can tune now and feel happy to have reached nb 1. Say to their friends it is fun and worth buying a PS3.
* some talented people, know you can do it with a car as you buy it from the shop and try to do this, having lots of fun.
* I find myself in the middle: only changing tires at the moment and trying to reach a high position like this.

P.S.: other changes:
-Nurburgring is now standard for all available, having to work for it was not appreciated by the less talented it seems.
-Experience points and money went up, since people thought the game was taking too long.

===========================

OK you might say PD listens more to the less talented people, but I guess they are the largest revenue market. Remeber: no money made on GT5 = no GT6.

 

[the Interceptor]

About the missing restrictions in the seasonal events:

I did like the restrictions, but I understand that they were removed. After all, these seasonal events are meant to give players a simple way to gain credits as well as experience points in the game. Removing the restrictions therefore is understandable, though one has to ask why there were restrictions in the first place.

Nonetheless, I still think that there should be suggestions for restrictions and probably a little extra bonus if you meet them. I understand that many people think you can restrict yourself with ease, and that it's just a matter of missing self-control. It isn't. The problem is not putting yourself in chains, the problem is finding out how long the chains need to be. Part of a challenge is it being hard. Ideally, one would overtake the leader just before the finishing line. Finding this fine balance is a long and difficult task, because you need to run the race several times and analyze the data to find the perfect spot.

Someone suggested that this should be easily doable by a pro GT gamer just by looking at the opponents specs. Remember however that you're already starting with a substantial handicap, and that you're supposed to be quicker than the leader within those five laps, but only so much that you can catch him just. This can't be done by guessing, it is a delicate process.

That said, I personally think it is something the game developer should do, and not me or anyone else for that matter. Like I said, I understand the seasonal events as a way to level up quickly, and having little or no restrictions for them makes sense. But there is nothing which keeps PD from introducing an optional "challenge mode" which gives you a couple of extra credits and XP if you win the race, and which meets the perfect balance to win the race if you do five near-perfect laps in a car precisely tuned to the allowed maximum. So anyone can master the events in a car he can tune to his liking, but everyone who would like a challenge gets the data to do so and a few extra points for winning this way.

 

[dzidza]

About the missing restrictions in the seasonal events:

I did like the restrictions, but I understand that they were removed. After all, these seasonal events are meant to give players a simple way to gain credits as well as experience points in the game. Removing the restrictions therefore is understandable, though one has to ask why there were restrictions in the first place.

Nonetheless, I still think that there should be suggestions for restrictions and probably a little extra bonus if you meet them. I understand that many people think you can restrict yourself with ease, and that it's just a matter of missing self-control. It isn't. The problem is not putting yourself in chains, the problem is finding out how long the chains need to be. Part of a challenge is it being hard. Ideally, one would overtake the leader just before the finishing line. Finding this fine balance is a long and difficult task, because you need to run the race several times and analyze the data to find the perfect spot.

Someone suggested that this should be easily doable by a pro GT gamer just by looking at the opponents specs. Remember however that you're already starting with a good handicap, and that you're supposed to be quicker than the leader within those five laps, but only so much that you can catch him just. This can't be done by guessing, it is a delicate process.

That said, I personally think it is something the game developer should do, and not me or anyone else for that matter. Like I said, I understand the seasonal events as a way to level up quickly, and having little or no restrictions for them makes sense. But there is nothing which keeps PD from introducing an optional "challenge mode" which gives you a couple of extra credits and XP if you win the race, and which meets the perfect balance to win the race if you do five near-perfect laps in a car precisely tuned to the allowed maximum. So anyone can master the events in a car he can tune to his liking, but everyone who would like a challenge gets the data to do so and a few extra points for winning this way.

But with SRF you can beat any seasonal event, even with the restriction. SRF is for casual players, so i don't see any valid point to remove restriction. Golding something should be hard not easy, what kind of message are they giving to the kids!?
I know it's a game, and should be fun, and this is no fun at all, no challenge.
Why do you need gold if you can't drive for gold. Restriction should be in.

Why not making Seasonal Challenges as you said, with restriction for hardcore base. You get more money, and xp. And that should at least encourage non hardcore player to try harder.

Right now XP points means so little to non. I don't see any progress achieved by XP system. If they want XP system, it should be based upon ones driving skills, aids that his using, and used that for online separation, or at least to give you online option to invite/join only people with certain skill level. Can somebody please explain me the point of a XP system, other then getting car card, and unlocking series, which should be unlocked by licenses test and not XP.

 

[CoolColJ]

I'm closing in on 20 million credits, don't need anymore money, what I need is more fun and variety, especially a proper race AI that is hard :/

 

[DanDiplo]

Just because they don't implement the hundreds of (often contradictory) ideas that people throw up doesn't mean they aren't listening. You can listen, but that doesn't mean you will always act, as it may not always be possible or there are other considerations to factor in that people aren't aware of. Whatever the case, you ain't going to please everyone, that's for sure...

 

[Sander H]

Looking at the latest patch I'd say they do listen. I think the seasonal events were already created earlier and I think it's not that easy to include restrictions on events which are already finished.

 

[African Kat]

PD does listen, and they've worked hard to implement our main requests, eg weather, time, damage etc. i believe they will still iron out the small issues in updates.
I believe in certains areas( sound), they tried, but came up short.

It must be remembered that their initial decision to go all out on the modelling came back to haunt them during development, but in hindsight it was the right decision and will assure Gt stays ahead of the competition going into the future.

 

[kitchenboy3]

I am sure they are listening, any company that does not listen to consumer feed-back these days is doomed.
But, and this is a simple matter of economics,WHO are they going to listen to, The 20% of hard-core gamers that does not want restriction and thinks driving aids are for loosers or the other 80% that just want to play and have fun?
I believe the idea of suggested restrictions is the best one here, in the meantime excersise some dicipline and self restrict.

 

[the Interceptor]

in the meantime excersise some dicipline and self restrict.

I must say it is becoming quite difficult for me to read this suggestion all the time and just leave it be. Noone critizises the missing restrictions in seasonal events because he lacks discipline and can't contain himself when tuning. Devedander has described this perfectly already here, and I just said the same thing again a few posts up:

I understand that many people think you can restrict yourself with ease, and that it's just a matter of missing self-control. It isn't. The problem is not putting yourself in chains, the problem is finding out how long the chains need to be. Part of a challenge is it being hard. Ideally, one would overtake the leader just before the finishing line. Finding this fine balance is a long and difficult task, because you need to run the race several times and analyze the data to find the perfect spot.

Someone suggested that this should be easily doable by a pro GT gamer just by looking at the opponents specs. Remember however that you're already starting with a substantial handicap, and that you're supposed to be quicker than the leader within those five laps, but only so much that you can catch him just. This can't be done by guessing, it is a delicate process.

 

[alfredchiwai]

I must say it is becoming quite difficult for me to read this suggestion all the time and just leave it be. Noone critizises the missing restrictions in seasonal events because he lacks discipline and can't contain himself when tuning. Devedander has described this perfectly already here, and I just said the same thing again a few posts up:

Yeah, the universal yardstick (restrictions) for the events would tell us how good we are and do the match without spending too much time "restricting ourselves".

 

[RikkiGT-R]

Judging by the way they moved quickly to try and rectify their mistakes with GT5, I would have to say it's fairly obvious they do listen to gamers. Still doesn't take away from the fact they messed up big time with GT5, but hey.

 

[kitchenboy3]

I must say it is becoming quite difficult for me to read this suggestion all the time and just leave it be. Noone critizises the missing restrictions in seasonal events because he lacks discipline and can't contain himself when tuning. Devedander has described this perfectly already here, and I just said the same thing again a few posts up:

I agree it's not easy, I agree that it takes time, but whats the hurry? I'd rather do that than run 200 laps of coma inducing ovals, I generally start with stock cars, then put a different tyre and so work my way up to what I need to beat the challenge.
That's also why I said the suggested restrictions are a great idea.
You also choose to ignore what I said in my post about the economics of who to cater for, or did you just see last bit and saw red?