Poll: Do Kaz and PD listen to gamers?

[the Interceptor]

I agree it's not easy, I agree that it takes time, but whats the hurry? I'd rather do that than run 200 laps of coma inducing ovals, I generally start with stock cars, then put a different tyre and so work my way up to what I need to beat the challenge.

The problem is: I can beat the challenge in many ways. I can put in more power, I can make the car lighter, I can put on better tires. Which way do I go? And how do I know that I'm not cheating myself with the upgrades I am applying? Maybe I just don't know the right way around a specific track, and I unwittingly cloak it by using too soft tires? Or maybe less weight favours a specific car much more than others?

The whole problem is that doing this by myself, I do not create an actual challenge valid for all players, I create a challenge for myself. Id PD were to provide that challenge, it is a general yardstick I can apply to see where I stand. If I just can't win the race even with getting close to the restrictions, I know I either have a less-than-perfect setup, I don't drive the car properly or I don't know the course well enough. I know these guys have tested it and gave me the yardstick to find out where I stand.

If I do it by myself, not only do I have to go through the long and painful process of finding the perfect balance on my own, I also do not know whether it really is the perfect balance, or whether it is a balance which suits my abilities, but not those of others.

That's also why I said the suggested restrictions are a great idea.
You also choose to ignore what I said in my post about the economics of who to cater for, or did you just see last bit and saw red?

I didn't ignore that. I simply didn't comment because I basically said just the same thing a few posts up, so there's no point in commenting.

That said, my remark was not to be taken personally. I didn't want to criticise you or the things you said in general. It just so happened that you were the one who "triggered me" by saying once again not creating a challenge for myself in the seasonal events is a lack of discipline. I apologize!

 

[shirakawaa]

The problem is: I can beat the challenge in many ways. I can put in more power, I can make the car lighter, I can put on better tires. Which way do I go? And how do I know that I'm not cheating myself with the upgrades I am applying?

And, most important of all, who guarantees that I can actually beat the challenge with the upgrades I chose? The restriction set by programmers were tested. Mine wouldn't.

 

[JackC8]

They listen to gamers as long as they're Japanese.

 

[zedextreme8177]

PD did give us a lot of the things we asked for, HUD off, Reverse lights, Standard cars to Premium.

Now all we need is full G25/27 support.

 

[alfredchiwai]

They listen to gamers as long as they're Japanese.

I've played Japanese games and GT5 is very similar to them in a way that there is a lot of grinding and collecting. Their level remains there. They should listen to all gamers all over the world and improve their English.

 

[alfredchiwai]

PD did give us a lot of the things we asked for, HUD off, Reverse lights, Standard cars to Premium.

Now all we need is full G25/27 support.

All these features, actually, should have been included in the game from day one. They were late to add the feature rather than listening or responding.

 

[amar212]

They listen to gamers as long as they're Japanese.

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I've played Japanese games and GT5 is very similar to them in a way that there is a lot of grinding and collecting. Their level remains there. They should listen to all gamers all over the world and improve their English.

I find both of your posts to be negatively generalizing certain nationality in whole.

However, that is just me.

 

[alfredchiwai]

I find both of your posts to be negatively generalizing certain nationality in whole.

However, that is just me.

I take that back. On reflection, I involved some sentiments in the argument because Japanese had invaded China and killed hundreds of thousands of Chinese in WW2 - it's ok that's the past and who never did wrong things? - but they still don't admit they had done so even until now. Unconsciously, I am still a bit angry and some sentiments have affected my comments. Sorry.

 

[Jebon]

Just one question. With all the complaints & whining here, did you guys actually write a letter to PD about this?

 

[kitchenboy3]

The problem is: I can beat the challenge in many ways. I can put in more power, I can make the car lighter, I can put on better tires. Which way do I go? And how do I know that I'm not cheating myself with the upgrades I am applying? Maybe I just don't know the right way around a specific track, and I unwittingly cloak it by using too soft tires? Or maybe less weight favours a specific car much more than others?

The whole problem is that doing this by myself, I do not create an actual challenge valid for all players, I create a challenge for myself. Id PD were to provide that challenge, it is a general yardstick I can apply to see where I stand. If I just can't win the race even with getting close to the restrictions, I know I either have a less-than-perfect setup, I don't drive the car properly or I don't know the course well enough. I know these guys have tested it and gave me the yardstick to find out where I stand.

If I do it by myself, not only do I have to go through the long and painful process of finding the perfect balance on my own, I also do not know whether it really is the perfect balance, or whether it is a balance which suits my abilities, but not those of others.

I didn't ignore that. I simply didn't comment because I basically said just the same thing a few posts up, so there's no point in commenting.

That said, my remark was not to be taken personally. I didn't want to criticise you or the things you said in general. It just so happened that you were the one who "triggered me" by saying once again not creating a challenge for myself in the seasonal events is a lack of discipline. I apologize!

No apologie neccessary as i did not take offence my friend, I guess that it is the nature of these discussions that there will be differing opinions, just between the two of us we have to agree to disagree, now imagine the difficulty PD faces when having to make decisions on what to implement and what to leave out, I suppose if they asked a 1000 people for their wishlists they would get a 1000 different ones, frankly I don't envy them as they seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

[Anes]

I hope PD don't listen to people here because a very large portion aren't educated or skilled enough to be making opinions the could alter the game.

Lotus challenge - Too hard
Kombi van challenge - Too hard
8c challenge - Too hard
Seasonal Events - Too hard
Levelling up - Too hard

etc



I found all of the above easy and I raged stupendiously hard when the restrictions on the Seasonal Events got removed after days of whinging by the people here. Coincidence maybe but who cares.



So PD, please DON'T listen to scrubs on the internet.

 

[IceMan PJN]

Well some people said no restrictions, others said restrictions on the seasonal events so they listened to half of us:tup:

By lifting restrictions, they're listening to the vast majority. The ones crying about the lack of restrictions are the minority. Even if we create a poll asking people about it and that poll happens to suggest that it's more of an even split or even more in favor of reinstating restrictions, it's irrelevant because the poll didn't ask the 5 or 6 million (or however many there are by now) GT5 players but rather just a limited slice of the overall community; a poll of a limited demographic typically consisting of the upper tier of players.

Folks were complaining about restrictions, are we now complaining about not having them?

You never really hear so much from folks that are content; just from the ones that are unhappy. However, as I've already discussed, the folks unhappy with the lack of tight restrictions represent a small but vocal minority.

Here's the thing: Restrictions are much like the various driving aids offered by the game. Use them if you want/need them and don't use them if you don't want/need them. You don't have to go through the list of assists turning them all on, and you don't have to go overboard with your car upgrades, either. If you want a challenge, restrict yourself. The lifting of restrictions open the events to all players rather than just the elite ones who can impose their own restrictions on themselves if they really want a challenge.

 

[amar212]

The ones crying about the lack of restrictions are the minority.

First of all, who gave you the right to speak about "us" as crybabies?

Second, we have a right to complain, because feature important to us have been removed.

Third, we do not "cry" about removal of "restrictions" - we have no problem about restrictions per-se - we just want to have some HP/weight/Tyre guideline in order to tailor the challenge up to maximum possible.

And fourth, most important - we are not minority. This poll shows you that "we" represent 1/3 of poll-participants, which is 33%, which is by no means a minority.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=157139

the folks unhappy with the lack of tight restrictions represent a small but vocal minority.

We are not vocal enough obviously, because we lost what we liked. However, vocal "majority" obviously get their "challenge" of having no challenge at all.

Thanx for wiping my tears.

 

[dzidza]

By lifting restrictions, they're listening to the vast majority. The ones crying about the lack of restrictions are the minority. Even if we create a poll asking people about it and that poll happens to suggest that it's more of an even split or even more in favor of reinstating restrictions, it's irrelevant because the poll didn't ask the 5 or 6 million (or however many there are by now) GT5 players but rather just a limited slice of the overall community; a poll of a limited demographic typically consisting of the upper tier of players.



You never really hear so much from folks that are content; just from the ones that are unhappy. However, as I've already discussed, the folks unhappy with the lack of tight restrictions represent a small but vocal minority.

Here's the thing: Restrictions are much like the various driving aids offered by the game. Use them if you want/need them and don't use them if you don't want/need them. You don't have to go through the list of assists turning them all on, and you don't have to go overboard with your car upgrades, either. If you want a challenge, restrict yourself. The lifting of restrictions open the events to all players rather than just the elite ones who can impose their own restrictions on themselves if they really want a challenge.

Why don't you restrict your self from posting on the forum. If you like to play GT5 as a beginner then you won, but if you want a challenge then you lost. It's easy to say restrict your self, but why should we restrict ourself. Restrictions are nowhere near driving aids. We have waited this game for a long time, and we want a challenge. I am sorry if your don't have skills to drive with restrictions, but there a lots of us who can and enjoy the game this way. You can always use SRF.

 

[kitchenboy3]

First of all, who gave you the right to speak about "us" as crybabies?

Second, we have a right to complain, because feature important to us have been removed.

Third, we do not "cry" about removal of "restrictions" - we have no problem about restrictions per-se - we just want to have some HP/weight/Tyre guideline in order to tailor the challenge up to maximum possible.

And fourth, most important - we are not minority. This poll shows you that "we" represent 1/3 of poll-participants, which is 33%, which is by no means a minority.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=157139



We are not vocal enough obviously, because we lost what we liked. However, vocal "majority" obviously get their "challenge" of having no challenge at all.

Thanx for wiping my tears.

Pardon my ignorance but I really don't understand why this needs to be so difficult.
In all of these events there is really only the one car that needs to be beaten, Focus RS for example, correct?
So, after your first run-through you can find this cars BHP and Weight in the typical oponents list and the only thing your left in the dark about is the Tyre choice, I think it is fair to assume that the tyre is whatever the car is fitted with in the dealership.
So, after just ONE run-through you should have the same info that you had before restrictions where lifted and can tune accordingly.
Am I not getting something here?

 

[namregzepol]

I don't think they hear us. Or at least as much as they should.

This hasn't to be another like/don't like war.

It's so easy to make the game good for all. Please, give us the option to choose if we want restrictions or not. It's just as easy as to put on screen another button. One with 'Participate' and other one with 'Participate without restrictions'. And we only need some sort of mark just to know if we have made the challenge with restrictions yet or not (if we want to make for the money first and later return, third sort of people). Not needed different trophies too.

Somebody any problem with this solution? This is good for the ones that want restrictions (like i am), for the ones that don't like restrictions, and for the ones than like no restrictions first and a challenge later.

Please, give solutions to the problems or discuss them. But, please, don't just complain.

 

[Stotty]

Of course PD listen to their consumers.

Almost all big companies invest money and time in consumer research, and there's already been evidence of PD insigating changes ot the game post release.

People shouldn't confuse lack of change with companies not listening or being aware of what their consumers want. Often a company will want to do something, but are unable for technical or financial reasons. What might seem a simple request could in reality be a much bigger ask.

Appreciate what you have, be pleasantly surprised if it gets better 👍

 

[niky]

Pardon my ignorance but I really don't understand why this needs to be so difficult.
In all of these events there is really only the one car that needs to be beaten, Focus RS for example, correct?
So, after your first run-through you can find this cars BHP and Weight in the typical oponents list and the only thing your left in the dark about is the Tyre choice, I think it is fair to assume that the tyre is whatever the car is fitted with in the dealership.
So, after just ONE run-through you should have the same info that you had before restrictions where lifted and can tune accordingly.
Am I not getting something here?

There's a set entry requirement. The race with the RS can only be run with the C30. Most of the races can be won with stock cars in completely stock trim. That one... well... it's debatable.

 

[amar212]

So, after just ONE run-through you should have the same info that you had before restrictions where lifted and can tune accordingly.
Am I not getting something here?

Not correct to be honest.

First, let's solve this: I have nothing against removal of restrictions, but I have against removal of "recommended figures" (HP/weight/tyre type).

I will use 2 of #2 Seasonal Events as an example.

If there were no restrictions for both Focus ST/RX-7 race, challenge for both would be almost non-existant. Notice that "figures" for both races determined the overall challenge by any margin imaginable.

On Focus ST, appropriate tuning the LSD was the key to succes when all other "figures" were met. But without "figures" we couldn't know was it really possible or where lays the "key" for success.

On RX-7 race, "key" was either LSD/precise camber tuning or usage of TCS (1) in order to prevent wheelspin and maintain constant laps of 1.00.xxx in order to catch the GTR.

However, both events seemed 100% impossible on the start, because "default figures" didn't allow to find real measure before we started to seriously tweak the setup.

Everything above is said prom perspective of non-usage the SRF of course.

Removal of "figures" leave "figures-people" without challenge. OK, we can try to tailor the challenge to ourselves, but in order to do that, we must sustain from any mechanical tuning because there is no way on Earth to know all variables of increase/decrease laptime regarding to mechanical-parts-install.

Example for that is Focus ST challenge, where install and proper tuning of LSD was the key factor of reducing laptime by 1 second, and allowing to catch the Focus in the last section of lap 5. However, it was a lengthy process of trial-and-error, but since we had "figures" we could sort it out.

When tailoring SE#3 event with Ford GT (or any other non-restricted race) we had to find a challenge only inside margins of "testable" - because we do not have AI-physics-pilot engine as PD have on disposal that can include all the variables and produce a great challenge.

I guess you understand our point.

 

[namregzepol]

Pardon my ignorance but I really don't understand why this needs to be so difficult.
In all of these events there is really only the one car that needs to be beaten, Focus RS for example, correct?
So, after your first run-through you can find this cars BHP and Weight in the typical oponents list and the only thing your left in the dark about is the Tyre choice, I think it is fair to assume that the tyre is whatever the car is fitted with in the dealership.
So, after just ONE run-through you should have the same info that you had before restrictions where lifted and can tune accordingly.
Am I not getting something here?

I think that if you just get a stock car and try is implosible to beat some events. They are far away in front of you. You can always come here to discuss witch is the correct setup or addon, but i think is easier if they give them to us in the game.

 

[kitchenboy3]

Not correct to be honest.

First, let's solve this: I have nothing against removal of restrictions, but I have against removal of "recommended figures" (HP/weight/tyre type).

I will use 2 of #2 Seasonal Events as an example.

If there were no restrictions for both Focus ST/RX-7 race, challenge for both would be almost non-existant. Notice that "figures" for both races determined the overall challenge by any margin imaginable.

On Focus ST, appropriate tuning the LSD was the key to succes when all other "figures" were met. But without "figures" we couldn't know was it really possible or where lays the "key" for success.

On RX-7 race, "key" was either LSD/precise camber tuning or usage of TCS (1) in order to prevent wheelspin and maintain constant laps of 1.00.xxx in order to catch the GTR.

However, both events seemed 100% impossible on the start, because "default figures" didn't allow to find real measure before we started to seriously tweak the setup.

Everything above is said prom perspective of non-usage the SRF of course.

Removal of "figures" leave "figures-people" without challenge. OK, we can try to tailor the challenge to ourselves, but in order to do that, we must sustain from any mechanical tuning because there is no way on Earth to know all variables of increase/decrease laptime regarding to mechanical-parts-install.

Example for that is Focus ST challenge, where install and proper tuning of LSD was the key factor of reducing laptime by 1 second, and allowing to catch the Focus in the last section of lap 5. However, it was a lengthy process of trial-and-error, but since we had "figures" we could sort it out.

When tailoring SE#3 event with Ford GT (or any other non-restricted race) we had to find a challenge only inside margins of "testable" - because we do not have AI-physics-pilot engine as PD have on disposal that can include all the variables and produce a great challenge.

I guess you understand our point.

I'm seriously trying to understand, thats why I asked if I am not getting something here, what I was trying to figure out was the fact that the restrictions only covered three parameters ie. BHP, weight and Tyres and that now you need to run one 'Test race' to find out what those parameters are, why is this so much different?
I have to admit that I don't know all that much about camber, springload, Toe in/out etc, so that is probably where my brain shortcurcuits, lol

Note to self: do not be a moron in a public forum...

Okay I think I know where my misconception lies, I assumed that the BHP and Weight etc where the same as the fastest car in the race, but they may have been different in actuall fact..
I guess that happens when a BC like me wants to keep up with the young bucks, sorry guys for beeing a bit slow

 

[amar212]

what I was trying to figure out was the fact that the restrictions only covered three parameters ie. BHP, weight and Tyres and that now you need to run one 'Test race' to find out what those parameters are, why is this so much different?

Because initial HP/weight/tyre type figures of "restricted" challenges were only the start in cases of "harder" challenges.

Even if you'd upgrade the car to max. possible on those figures it was still a great problem to win the race.

Further mechanical tuning was the key to success, together with precise altering of all possible parts (such as gear ratios, LDS, suspension and so on).

It was very important part of challenge for all the "harder" races: F500, GT-R, Focus ST and RX-7.

Please note we're talking about driving without any assists and especially without Skid Recovery Force.

Removal of restrictions leaves us in dark regaring "what is really possible".

I presume that SE#3 Ford GT race can be won on Sports Hard tyres (car's default) but I have no real idea where are the real margins of possible tuning in order to produce real challenge. Without restrictions I have no idea what real change can be done with installing mechanical parts (new clutch, carbon shaft, LSD, suspension, racing transmission, etc.) regarding to some "ideal" HP/weight ratio in order to make race beatable on minimal HP/weight values - as "restrictions" were providing.

Without restrictions I can install something I think it's good for winning and then win by some amount of time. But without numeruos testing I can't know could it be done with even less HP or more weight - in order to produce greater challenge.

 

[kitchenboy3]

Because initial HP/weight/tyre type figures of "restricted" challenges were only the start in cases of "harder" challenges.

Even if you'd upgrade the car to max. possible on those figures it was still a great problem to win the race.

Further mechanical tuning was the key to success, together with precise altering of all possible parts (such as gear ratios, LDS, suspension and so on).

It was very important part of challenge for all the "harder" races: F500, GT-R, Focus ST and RX-7.

Please note we're talking about driving without any assists and especially without Skid Recovery Force.

Removal of restrictions leaves us in dark regaring "what is really possible".

I presume that SE#3 Ford GT race can be won on Sports Hard tyres (car's default) but I have no real idea where are the real margins of possible tuning in order to produce real challenge. Without restrictions I have no idea what real change can be done with installing mechanical parts (new clutch, carbon shaft, LSD, suspension, racing transmission, etc.) regarding to some "ideal" HP/weight ratio in order to make race beatable on minimal HP/weight values - as "restrictions" were providing.

Without restrictions I can install something I think it's good for winning and then win by some amount of time. But without numeruos testing I can't know could it be done with even less HP or more weight - in order to produce greater challenge.

Thanks, see my edit

 

[Gejabo]

I don't see how being restricted by others is any different from being restricted by yourself.

just first try it with the stock version an give it a few go's
if you really can't win then tune you car a little.

I think Kaz did listen to fans by removing the restrictions, now any one can complete the events it is just up to you how big the chalenge is.

 

[kitchenboy3]

There's a set entry requirement. The race with the RS can only be run with the C30. Most of the races can be won with stock cars in completely stock trim. That one... well... it's debatable.

How you doing Niky, did them all yesterday actually and all except the C30 with stock cars, I am embarresed to admit that I had to give it a bit more omph and some better shoes.
I am happy to report however that now I am Aids free, lol

 

[the Interceptor]

I don't see how being restricted by others is any different from being restricted by yourself.

just first try it with the stock version an give it a few go's
if you really can't win then tune you car a little.

Please read a few of the latest posts in this thread. The problem has been explained in length already.

 

[Capp96100]

That is the question that I do for a long time:
It's been more than seven months since the release of GT5 and still have only released patches (some useless), but still have not even heard our request ...
Why PD?
http://feedback.gtplanet.net/forums/96709-gt5-feedback
- Ghosting more realistic. Now it is very unrealistic and exaggerated
- Endurance save
- DLC (tracks and cars)
- Upgrade standard to premium cars
- Better Replay System
- Better support for Fanatec wheels and G25/27
-Improve online, we want more options
- ecc... ecc...

 

[phil_75]

You got more chance of Sony telling the truth, or platting µ!$$

 

[PintSizedPurple]

Where are endurance saves

 

[skylinefx]

Because people ask for too much.