Practice Tracks in Sections in GT5 thread of apples being orange rewindists

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I will leave the believing up to you as you seem to be quite good at it... I will stick to knowing and logically explaining to an audience that doesn't give a ****. 👍
Yes, please do.

And they wondered why we kept saying the poll was flawed đź’ˇ

(hint: no you're not )
Your opinion =/= LF. :)
 
Yes, please do.

The irony is we are pretty much each other audience... we are both playing for no one, but I am at least doing it right :)

Your opinon =/= fact. :) try to be more logical.

It's not opinion.... the fact is that you are counting people who voted "don't care" as people who find it unacceptable.

Sorry unnaceptable != don't care. So there you have it... wrong. No opinion, fact. They mean different things.

This is kind of your MO... pick flawed information, add in some flawed assumptions and hold it all together by stating your opion as fact ;)
 
The irony is we are pretty much each other audience... we are both playing for no one, but I am at least doing it right :)



It's not opinion.... the fact is that you are counting people who voted "don't care" as people who find it unacceptable.

Sorry unnaceptable != don't care. So there you have it... wrong.
I'm your only audience hon. <3 And I didn't count the ones that don't care.
 
I'm your only audience hon. <3 And I didn't count the ones that don't care.

Yes you did, you just don't realize it because the poll was flawed (hint read through the poll thread, some people specifically said "I don't care so I voted no" and I described in detail exactly why the poll was flawed and why "don't care" was wrongly included in No.

But that's ok, you won't like facing the fact so I don't expect you to step back from your flawed assumption :D

So anyway, I got things to go do, I have laid down the fact and argument and logic 7 ways from Sunday and have picked your arguments apart about as thoroughly so... have a fun being wrong by yourself!
 
Yes you did, you just don't realize it because the poll was flawed (hint read through the poll thread, some people specifically said "I don't care so I voted no" and I described in detail exactly why the poll was flawed and why "don't care" was wrongly included in No.

But that's ok, you won't like facing the fact so I don't expect you to step back from your flawed assumption :D

So anyway, I got things to go do, I have laid down the fact and argument and logic 7 ways from Sunday and have picked your arguments apart about as thoroughly so... have a fun being wrong by yourself!
Yeah, sleeping is a good idea. :lol:
 

This explains a lot. It's all about what your audience is able to accept. It doesn't matter if restarting a race is unrealistic, crashing and not dieing is unrealistic, having your car magically fixed after a race is unrealistic. We all grew with that sort of thing and learned to accept them. They don't break the realism.

Rewind in the other hand is new, foreign. It creates a break from reality that the other unrealistic things don't. It's not one of the "Acceptable breaks from reality" as a poll already clearly may showed. This surely supports the "because it's unrealistic" claim. It may not look logical at first, but that's only because the logic behind it is more complex than it seems.

That's most likely the reason why PD won't include rewind, regardless of it's advantages.
 
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Stop trying.
The feature to not have rewind should be in GT5. If people won't buy a real driving simulator without rewind in it, then so be it. PD isn't a charity.

By having rewind not forced, the feature of not having it is already provided.

This isn't about charity. Rewind is a good thing for sims like Gran Turismo. Much more appropriate in a sim than say, Need for Speed, which would not likely have things like rewind which have such a focus on improving your [real life] skills.



I agree, but your main argument to include rewind everywhere is "I shouldn't force other people to play the way I want them to". But it's not me, it's PD. They include limitations in GT, not me. To talk about allowing rewind everywhere, is to talk about opening all the game's limitations. That would change the whole game, as allowing rewind everywhere would change the whole game.

GT is limited. It replicate real life races that are limited. I won't be surprised if they include races where you're forced to play with full damage on. I think they are right when they do that sort of thing. You may think otherwise, but I'm accepting the game for what it is, you're trying to change it.

Some clarification:

My reasons for wanting rewind in GT:
None, I'm neutral. It's not needed, but it can be a huge bonus.

My reasons for thinking rewind belongs in career mode in some form:
I assume people will want to practice in career mode.

My reasons for thinking rewind should be everywhere:
As you said, I don't think limits should be imposed on one's private affairs. But in this subject it's pretty minor. Rewind is their to make drivers better, not get them past the boring and tedious (IMO) career mode, that is just an extra benefit it could be used for. However, that role is better filled by complete separation of arcade/online (A/O) and career (C). A/O should have everything open from day one and let you reconstruct anything from career mode. It for people who like to drive in a sim, and don't the [honestly] game like progression of GT mode. Not many sims I've played (most being flight sims) have unlocks. They don't serve any purpose. Everything is open to you from the begiinning, and that the best way to do it (IMO).

So to condense all that, rewind as a quick career mode option is secondary. What it really important is getting it in the game as a training feature.


On PD vs the people I'm arguing with, that's been understood the whole time. But you'll notice that some people speak and say what they think should and should not be, it's their right. I'm replying and exercising my rights. I don't expect my post here to have any influsence of GT5 at all. If I wanted that, I'd contact the proper people.

I'm not trying to change anything. Unless maybe adding something new is changing. It can be. I feel rewind fits GT like a glove, and as a sim it does not need the very regular-game-like progression. If the FWD races were in GT without restrictions, I'm sure a fair amount of people including me would use FWD cars in that race, so I don't see what the problem is. The restrictions are unecessary. But more realisticly, since I do expect limitation in GT5, having arcade mode free and career mode limited is acceptible if career is very loosely simulating a career. I just don't like how career sufficates other portions of the game like it does in old GT's (ie, you need to go through career to be able to do everything in arcade, etc).


Gran Turismo is real driving simulator. Fact
All the more reason for rewind.


Exiting out of a race and re-entering =/= rewinding.
It kind of does. If youÂ’re saying restart has a leg up on realism, itÂ’s unlikely that next year the grid looks the same, and everyoneÂ’s cars are exactly the same. ItÂ’s sort of like youÂ’ve gone back in time. In any case, rewind in a sim does not simulate a race, it simulates a sim.


This explains a lot. It's all about what your audience is able to accept. It doesn't matter if restarting a race is unrealistic, crashing and not dieing is unrealistic, having your car magically fixed after a race is unrealistic. We all grew with that sort of thing and learned to accept them. They don't break the realism.

Rewind in the other hand is new, foreign. It creates a break from reality that the other unrealistic things don't. It's not one of the "Acceptable breaks from reality" as a poll already clearly may showed. This surely supports the "because it's unrealistic" claim. It may not look logical at first, but that's only because the logic behind it is more complex than it seems.

That's most likely the reason why PD won't include rewind, regardless of it's advantages.
This has been said by me and a few others a long time ago. Aside from linking it with PDÂ’s most likely action.

People aren't used to it, so they think it's different, even if it's not.
 
rewind is a great idea you know. we should implement in all games.

when you take free kicks in fifa or pro evo and miss the goal just rewind again.
when you get shot out by numerous helghast enemies in killzone just rewind.
when you cast an ineffectual magic spell in final fantasy just rewind
when you take a wrong note in singstar just rewind.
when you are going for 50 hit combo in god of war and you miss one combo just rewind.
when you are on the verge of doing a devastating attack combo in street fighter, tekken or king of fighters and you mistime one element of the attack, just rewind.


rewind for all games. why work for your kills, moves, combos, free kicks, when you have the power to go BACK!!
 
rewind is a great idea you know. we should implement in all games.

when you take free kicks in fifa or pro evo and miss the goal just rewind again.
when you get shot out by numerous helghast enemies in killzone just rewind.
when you cast an ineffectual magic spell in final fantasy just rewind
when you take a wrong note in singstar just rewind.
when you are going for 50 hit combo in god of war and you miss one combo just rewind.
when you are on the verge of doing a devastating attack combo in street fighter, tekken or king of fighters and you mistime one element of the attack, just rewind.


rewind for all games. why work for your kills, moves, combos, free kicks, when you have the power to go BACK!!

Well put, but watch the use of capital letters. 👍

On a further note, this is exactly why 6 of 212, ie less than 3% would actually consider paying for such as feature as DLC in GT5. Exactly the same percentage polled have also said they would be willing to pay for Neon/Tinted windows.

My non-scientific and probably illogical conclusion.

Rewind belongs in GT5 as much as Need For Speed neon lights and gold tinted windows.

No rewind, no surrender. :crazy:
 
What the heck has rewind to do with the topic?
The rewind thing like in GRID, DiRT 2 and FM3 is something you can use while racing (i hate the idea behind it), the OP here is about a time trial like practice for certain track sections. Two completely different things.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but all tracks have sectors, or pre-determined sections of track used for timing.

I wouldn't mind a feature under time trial that allows you to pick a track and then opt for a full lap or select a certain sector.

The game would start in the same way a driver's challenge would. Putting your car at the right speed and position for the first corner. You would have a gold, silver, bronze time that you would try to achieve based on the car/tires/upgrades you are using just like GTPSP.

When you finished the lap/sector you get the finish screen with results, followed by the replay, then the reward screen if you earned a new trophy and credits. Finally an option to restart or try a different track/sector

At no time could you rewind anything other than replay.

Even if PD doesnt do the trophies and credits part, this feature would help you learn specific parts of a track without having to stop and turn around or going completely around.
 
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What the heck has rewind to do with the topic?

Rewind and sections go hand and hand, two great training tools fit for simulations. Some people disagree and assert sectors are superior and that it can do everything rewind can.

rewind is a great idea you know. we should implement in all games.

when you take free kicks in fifa or pro evo and miss the goal just rewind again.
when you get shot out by numerous helghast enemies in killzone just rewind.
when you cast an ineffectual magic spell in final fantasy just rewind
when you take a wrong note in singstar just rewind.
when you are going for 50 hit combo in god of war and you miss one combo just rewind.
when you are on the verge of doing a devastating attack combo in street fighter, tekken or king of fighters and you mistime one element of the attack, just rewind.


rewind for all games. why work for your kills, moves, combos, free kicks, when you have the power to go BACK!!

Why not? wouldn't change a thing, and wouldn't have negative effects.

Correct me if I am wrong, but all tracks have sectors, or pre-determined sections of track used for timing.

I wouldn't mind a feature under time trial that allows you to pick a track and then opt for a full lap or select a certain sector.

The game would start in the same way a driver's challenge would. Putting your car at the right speed and position for the first corner. You would have a gold, silver, bronze time that you would try to achieve based on the car/tires/upgrades you are using just like GTPSP.

When you finished the lap/sector you get the finish screen with results, followed by the replay, then the reward screen if you earned a new trophy and credits. Finally an option to restart or try a different track/sector

At no time could you rewind anything other than replay.

Even if PD doesnt do the trophies and credits part, this feature would help you learn specific parts of a track without having to stop and turn around or going completely around.

Why (aimed at bold)? You're limiting one's ability to practice.
 
Why (aimed at bold)? You're limiting one's ability to practice.

Why? Because I dont think rewind should be in GT, other than in replays.

I have made my arguements on the 3 or 4 other threads about rewind. I dont feel like regurgitating them everytime someone dissagrees.

Just go to my profile and look up all my posts, the ones on rewind are fairly recent.

I dont feel I am limiting one's ability to practice.
 
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Rewind and sections go hand and hand, two great training tools fit for simulations. Some people disagree and assert sectors are superior and that it can do everything rewind can.
Thats nonesense.
This thread is about a special mode where you drive certain sections to practice, not something you use while racing.
 
Why? Because I dont think rewind should be in GT, other than in replays.

I have made my arguements on the 3 or 4 other threads about rewind. I dont feel like regurgitating them everytime someone dissagrees.
That's fine, I do not feel that my statments need a reply, if you don't want to debate, freely ignore me.

I dont feel I am limiting one's ability to practice.
Well, you most definitely are taking away people's options. What if someone found rewind useful in some situation, as could be the case in numerous examples of rewind's greater accessibility to sections given in this thread. You'd deny them practice opportunities in all of those situations. And you'd also be hurting people who feel sections don't provide all the necessary training.

That said, you can still be correct, if rewind only appears to be an aid then not having it won't limit anything. However people seem to be able to list plenty for/against rewind.


Thats nonesense.
This thread is about a special mode where you drive certain sections to practice, not something you use while racing.


Then, if rewind was limited to practice, would you have nothing against it?
 
Then, if rewind was limited to practice, would you have nothing against it?
Only if the lap you used it in wouldnt count for online leaderboards etc.
But then, why should i?
Practicing is okay, using it as a cheat to win races or climb up the online leaderbord not.
 
Only if the lap you used it in wouldnt count for online leaderboards etc.
But then, why should i?
Practicing is okay, using it as a cheat to win races or climb up the online leaderbord not.

Rewind and online/player-competition do not go together. I don't think anyone has suggested such a thing, I don't even think it's possible to logically support it.

As practice, it seems we agree that it's fine.

Where we disagree is the definition of cheating. I find cheating impossible in a single player game.

For the good of staying on topic and satisfying my own curiosity, I'll make a thread about it (moral ideals, not rewind, we had one of those).

Here it is

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3604910#post3604910
 
What ever happened to the old fashioned way of picking a track and driving laps around the whole circuit? Yeah it'll take longer, but you'll learn the whole track better rather than just a certain section. And it'll most likely be more fun than just driving the same section over and over again (if i want that i'll just do license tests) So basically what i'm trying to say is that there's simply no need for a mode like that, just like there's no need for rewind :p
 
So basically what i'm trying to say is that there's simply no need for a mode like that, just like there's no need for rewind :p

But your reasoning was made of nothing but opinion. The only fact was doing track laps will let you learn the track better, but that doesn't matter.

Sectors would be designed specifically to help you with a section. If you're using sections or rewind, you obviously know the track, minus a section or two.

This is something I don't get, people try to bring facts out of opinion.
 
But your reasoning was made of nothing but opinion. The only fact was doing track laps will let you learn the track better, but that doesn't matter.

Sectors would be designed specifically to help you with a section. If you're using sections or rewind, you obviously know the track, minus a section or two.

This is something I don't get, people try to bring facts out of opinion.

I wasn't trying to bring facts out of opinion, I was simply stating my opinion, which is that driving around the whole course would be better than using a section or rewind.

obviously i'm not stating a fact :p

personally i wouldn't mind if either a sector or rewind was in GT5, I wouldn't use it, but thats just me, If some people want to use it thats just fine, if it helps them then by all means use it.

lol maybe i should have said "There's no need for a mode like that, just like there's no need for rewind (for me)" :lol:
 
Only if the lap you used it in wouldnt count for online leaderboards etc.
But then, why should i?
Practicing is okay, using it as a cheat to win races or climb up the online leaderbord not.

What if the lap counted but had an asterisk or some kind of mark next to it and all rewind laps automatically fell below any clean laps? Would that make it ok? Because I would think that's how it would be done.

What about if every race you won that involved rewind also had a marker, so you are essentially winning a different set of licenses? Would that be ok?

Sort of like how you can complete a license test by bronzing in, but if you gold it you get something better... make a bronze trophy the equivalent of a mark of rewind thus seperating the accomplishments...

BTW vaioleto... following me into my profile messages because the forum thread wasn't enough... creepy... I know girls get stalked on the internet... it's even more weird when as a guy I get stalked :yuck:
 
BTW vaioleto... following me into my profile messages because the forum thread wasn't enough... creepy... I know girls get stalked on the internet... it's even more weird when as a guy I get stalked :yuck:

:lol: That is too funny! Great way To end the night.

I dont care about rewind, honestly. It will never be implemented in online races in GT5, and that is what matters. If it does show up in online races... Ill body slam my PS3, and then give it a Randy Savage leg drop! Then Ill hope it isnt broke so I can keep playing GT5 :lol:
 
I wasn't trying to bring facts out of opinion, I was simply stating my opinion, which is that driving around the whole course would be better than using a section or rewind.

obviously i'm not stating a fact :p

personally i wouldn't mind if either a sector or rewind was in GT5, I wouldn't use it, but thats just me, If some people want to use it thats just fine, if it helps them then by all means use it.

lol maybe i should have said "There's no need for a mode like that, just like there's no need for rewind (for me)" :lol:

Yes, that would have made things less confusing lol.





:lol: That is too funny! Great way To end the night.

I dont care about rewind, honestly. It will never be implemented in online races in GT5, and that is what matters. If it does show up in online races... Ill body slam my PS3, and then give it a Randy Savage leg drop! Then Ill hope it isnt broke so I can keep playing GT5 :lol:

I did not get the point of that post. Rewind in online is an absurd idea. I thought you were anti rewind, but reading this, you seem to be in the same position as me.
 
we don't need no stinking rewinds. period. :grumpy: People won't learn from their mistakes if they can just rewind and thus avoid the punishment for their stupidity.
 
I wouldn't limit the ways people can learn by practicing. The more ways to practice the better in my opinion.
 
License tests are a really good way to familiarize yourself with a corner or a section. A practice mode would be like a license test, but for every corner/section in the game.

It would be cool if you could choose one section in a track to practice, and it restarts as you get to the end of the section, so you keep doing it till you perfect it. For those that play an instrument, this is very similar. If you're having trouble with one section of a piano piece, you just play that section by itself over and over again until you can get it up to the same tempo as the rest of the piece. So... what do you think?

What do I think? Great idea! 👍
 
I did not get the point of that post. Rewind in online is an absurd idea. I thought you were anti rewind, but reading this, you seem to be in the same position as me.

Likewise, I dont get the point of this post. Quote where I said I am "anti rewind" and you may have a reason to make this post.

As far as my earlier post- I would be upset if rewind was online, but I would still play the game. Get it now?
 
Why not? wouldn't change a thing, and wouldn't have negative effects.

seriously man, why play videogames if there is no element of satisfaction, risk or reward in it?

would you even sit thorough hours of GT main event if you perfected each corner using rewind? Honestly rewind will make career mode so laborious and so boring to play. It would dilute the game.


If you want to get better at a corner, you have a humongous career mode spanning many tracks and many different cars. Each will give you a different feeling when transversing through a corner. you want to cheapen all that experience by rewinding because you braked bit too late. c'mon man.

seriously it's no different from rewinding a free kick in fifa. if you tell a hardcore street fighter that if you have the ability to rewind a combo he would look at you in disgust. Practice makes perfect. i hope kaz never implements this cheap option into the game. gran turismo is an experience. To beat your friends lap times using different cars. mastering tracks after hours of practice.

Using rewind will take that experience out.
 
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I like the practice section thing, because that can only be used as a practice tool and is true to life. If you hired the track to yourself, you could stop and turn around back to the beginning of the sector and re-do it.

Rewind however, the main argument for is that its a practice tool, but its not is it? Some people want to do this so they don't have to practice before the race, they want to practice during a race and correct their mistakes. Sure you still have to do the corner, but doing it right first time and being consistent with it is what wins you races.

I have no problem with it in arcade mode or practices, but time trials, licenses, online and any sort of career mode races we have, i am 100% against this feature.

You don't have to use rewind. Well i say you don't have to play career mode.

If PD implemented nobody is going to boycott the game, nobody will care. But i don't think anyone of the other opinion is going to not buy the game if it doesn't have the feature, so the bottom line is: It doesn't matter.
 
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