Project CARS 2 General Discussion Thread - Out Now on PS4/XB1/PC

[Johnnn]

Space is definitely a problem. Since I've made space for myself in my man cave garage I've bought a PC and steering wheel pedals and have been loving it. But that doesn't mean I've stopped enjoying the games on console with my controllers, I love them too. There's just more choice on PC that's all. Console or PC, it's all good !

Exactly, the best is to have everything That's the reason one console is not enough. It's much better to test everything on your own than to watch some Youtube experts. But the space...

If anyone needs save space, a Wheelstandpro is really great rig.

That's a great alternative to something bigger! I bought one too but currently use table.

 

[Johnnn]

So I tried recommended F355 and it's like easy mode Even with cold tires it's possible to drive it very fast. Very interesting. I tried many other cars and it's great how every car is different. From some perspective cars are very similar in other normal racing games. Here I can take one car and have good game and when it's boring I can take another one and it's completely new game. It's so cool. I should probably change my mind about SMS. It's something pretty good in the studio.

 

[slthree]

What car is that? I'd like to try it

One of my favorite things about this game is that almost every car feels different. Some would criticize that some cars are modeled better than others and that's fine.

For the 1st year I played this game I tinkered with tuning. Then I connected with an experienced group of guys through @Sick Cylinder and @IfAndOr online racing, who only use DEFAULT setups, no tuning.

That's when the game changed for me and I really learned how to drive (although some of the group might say otherwise. Lol)

Anyway, this is to say that on the default setups almost every car feels so different from the last car you drove.

Love it

 

[r_outsider]

What car is that? I'd like to try it

One of my favorite things about this game is that almost every car feels different. Some would criticize that some cars are modeled better than others and that's fine.

For the 1st year I played this game I tinkered with tuning. Then I connected with an experienced group of guys through @Sick Cylinder and @IfAndOr online racing, who only use DEFAULT setups, no tuning.

That's when the game changed for me and I really learned how to drive (although some of the group might say otherwise. Lol)

Anyway, this is to say that on the default setups almost every car feels so different from the last car you drove.

Love it

Some of my friends and I have been doing this on XBox lately, and I've been making a bit of an effort to try some out I've never driven, or even thought to try before, there are some genuine gems in there, some really enjoyable cars. There are some that need some help or aren't quite right to be sure, but they really do have their own way of driving, even things you wouldn't expect to be much different, are. And most retain that character with some setup as well.

 

[Wolfe]

What car is that? I'd like to try it

The F355? It's a Ferrari, dubbed F355 Challenge in full. It is a nice one in PCARS2. 👍

Every time it's mentioned it always makes me think of the Sega coin-op game -- F355 Challenge. In "Deluxe" form it shipped in a giant semi-enclosed cabinet with three pedals and a gated 6-speed shifter. The shifter was probably a maintenance nightmare, as I understand it -- I used to work at a video arcade, and those things take a beating. Thanks to that, I will always remain shy about letting anyone use my G25 without having seen how they treat shifter peripherals!

For the 1st year I played this game I tinkered with tuning. Then I connected with an experienced group of guys through @Sick Cylinder and @IfAndOr online racing, who only use DEFAULT setups, no tuning.

That's when the game changed for me and I really learned how to drive (although some of the group might say otherwise. Lol)

Anyway, this is to say that on the default setups almost every car feels so different from the last car you drove.

Love it

The first thing I adjust on any car is my approach in driving it. I don't totally shy away from making tuning adjustments, but I think too many people get prematurely lost in changing settings looking for time they could have gained by becoming familiar with a car's innate characteristics.

 

[Bloodytears]

I don't totally shy away from making tuning adjustments, but I think too many people get prematurely lost in changing settings looking for time they could have gained by becoming familiar with a car's innate characteristics.

Wise words, I'm one of those people mentioned. At some point in an attempt to improve one minor thing, could dig that deep to ruin it all. But after all it's a valuable lesson, which in return helps to make a 100th try easier.

Still recommend to know and practice at least some basics in engineering.

 

[IfAndOr]

What car is that? I'd like to try it

As Wolfe mentions it's a Ferrari and it drives very nicely. You can get some practice in because we'll probably be using that at some point along with the slightly hairier 488 in a Ferrari Challenge challenge.

and I really learned how to drive (although some of the group might say otherwise.)

Hey you're mid table in the current series, so you're heading upwards. 👍

The first thing I adjust on any car is my approach in driving it.

Yes that is the most crucial adjustment. It's often the case of just slowing down.

I think that there's a little bit of a placebo effect with tuning. Someone could spend lots of time tweaking this or that setting and seeing slight improvements in lap times, when the underlying factor is that more gains are coming from familiarity with the car and track combination.


I really like PC3's Rivals mode where I get to drive car, track and conditions combos that I haven't used before and you only get a set number of laps to adjust to both! A great challenge.

 

[Johnnn]

I think that there's a little bit of a placebo effect with tuning. Someone could spend lots of time tweaking this or that setting and seeing slight improvements in lap times, when the underlying factor is that more gains are coming from familiarity with the car and track combination.

Exactly! Almost every car is possible to drive very fast. After change you don't know the car at all. It's just premature tuning That's the reason why tuning is so time consuming. You need to learn the car perfectly first.

And other placebo is shared tuning. Wow, new tuning, it must be crazy good. And it's probably not but you want it that way.

 

[Bloodytears]

Dunno about placebo though, those numbers there isn't for show, each change is a change. Even minor things actually a big deal after some 20 laps, when each lap something like tire temp for example goes out normal.
Most of the time tunning is compromising in favour to suit a strategy in over all. Plus default set up kinda decides your strategy instead of you, so if a car in SMS vision lacks proper tire temperature and oversteer on several tracks in certain conditions, you need to adjust driving. Still there is no magic, if something wrong, and you not going to solve it, it is a compromise between saving time from engineering to lose it on track fighting a car.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

I've done some strange tests before now regarding car setups, some extreme just to see what happens & some tiny adjustments just to see if I can feel the difference.

One I did try is completely neutralising the car by setting every single setting in the middle just to see if it created a base balance to work off.

Example being there might be 30 settings between low & high damper (compression & rebound) I'd set it at 15, brake pressure goes from 50-100 so I'll start at 75, tyre pressure might be from 20psi to 40psi so I'll go 30, LSD clutches at 6, preload goes from -100 to 500 so 200 is the middle. Same applies to all other settings, roll bar, suspension, toe, brake balance, ride height. You get what I'm saying, everything in the middle then go for a drive & adjust accordingly, lower something here, stiffen something there, add more of that, reduce a bit of this, until it's completely undriveable & you just go back to default loose

 

[MrCrynox]

I think that there's a little bit of a placebo effect with tuning. Someone could spend lots of time tweaking this or that setting and seeing slight improvements in lap times, when the underlying factor is that more gains are coming from familiarity with the car and track combination.

This, well to a point. I know tuning helps but only if you know what your doing, which I do to a basic level, but I get frustrated with all the trial and error and time taken to test everything, all I want to do is drive! I feel like unless you know the particular car inside out there's little point in tuning as there's lots of adjustments you could make to your driving style of said car to extract the maximum, only then should you try to tune for more performance. But that's just my opinion, I'd rather just struggle on and try to drive my way around a problem, Casey Stoner style than spend ages fiddling for small gains. But then this is probably born out of the fact that I don't fully understand all aspects of tuning!

 

[IfAndOr]

I'm not saying tuning doesn't have any effect @Bloodytears. If you know what you're doing (which I don't) I'm sure there's advantages to be made - especially in adjusting it to your own driving style. It's just in the eventual fine tuning that I think maybe the little gains are actually caused by getting used to how the car behaves more than a slight tweak to the various settings.

I think the most "tuning" I've done is to lower the brake pressure on a couple of cars. I usually just "jump in" and get on with it.

I've done some strange tests before

I should keep that to yourself!

One I did try is completely neutralising the car

What, like with an air freshener?

 

[Bloodytears]

I've done some strange tests before now regarding car setups, some extreme just to see what happens & some tiny adjustments just to see if I can feel the difference.

One I did try is completely neutralising the car by setting every single setting in the middle just to see if it created a base balance to work off.

Example being there might be 30 settings between low & high damper (compression & rebound) I'd set it at 15, brake pressure goes from 50-100 so I'll start at 75, tyre pressure might be from 20psi to 40psi so I'll go 30, LSD clutches at 6, preload goes from -100 to 500 so 200 is the middle. Same applies to all other settings, roll bar, suspension, toe, brake balance, ride height. You get what I'm saying, everything in the middle then go for a drive & adjust accordingly, lower something here, stiffen something there, add more of that, reduce a bit of this, until it's completely undriveable & you just go back to default loose

It is funny, because most of options, even if available simply have no effect on certain cars. For example coasts in differential only engaging at point of those numbers, as for example 70 at 10 cluches will have very little effect in car like McLaren GTR.
In dumpers it is also matter number of transitions, otherwise you negate either, because there will be not enough time to switch. Bump stops nullify suspension changes at great extent, like even little number blocks its travel.
Changes in ducts and breaks balance, toe and chamber will kick in in endurance races mostly, here you sacrifice tires mostly and breaking disks, this is actually top problem to newcomers, since they find themselves very fast in qualifications, and snap oversteer'ed after few laps in race on heated up tires, which overheating every turn.
There more, dunno, for me it is interesting. It is not worth for quick sessions for chilling and driving around, but for some Motorsport experience is must try. To think about it first formula cars were made asymmetrical at mechanical level, and real race engineering put every little inch on the table for success. Asymmetrical set ups actually are top level tuning, so you can have all the advantages on long hauling.

 

[Morgoth_666]

Usually when working with a new car there's only a few things that I will change quickly(but never before spending at least a few minutes feeling it out:
1- tire pressures since a lot of them by default(and depending on track temperature) wind up being well off of where they should be. Usually just try to get race cars in the 25-27psi range(road cars around 32) and leave figuring out what perfect is for later. I adjust F/R the same amount at first, then might tweak the relative difference down the road if something looks or feels off.
2- brakes I'll lower pressure if locking up continues to be a massive problem in smooth brake zones after getting used to things. I also often change brake ducts after getting settled in, if they are not holding enough heat. They tend to be set very open and can be closed a bit on most tracks, a lot or even completely on some of the wide-open ones. This also has a major effect on tire temp/pressure so I'd rather get it adjusted soon if needed(and it's obvious when you need it) so I don't have to re-adjust tires all over again.
3- gears I usually do check if they adjustable after a few laps since those are a really simple adjustment and highly track-dependent. Obviously try the final first but in PC2 a lot of cars have really large gaps in the final gears available. GT series spoiled me with 0.0001 changes to everything lol.


Other than that I don't touch anything(except fuel) until I have several hours and lots of confidence in my driving and I'm willing to devote several more to making changes and testing. When changing setup I tend to do it as an extremely slow process to make sure I know(as best my limited understanding can figure out) what's happening with each change. I'm not sure how many cars I've bothered to make heavy changes to but I've fiddled a little with a few. I worked a good bit on the Caterham SP/300.R and the faster of its Radical counterparts since those were used in career and are a nightmare to drive fast without spinning. Not sure how much it helped or hurt but it(or the extra seat time) seemed to make me more reliable, at least enough to get through the career series with each. I also made a lot of changes to the GT4 86GT, that thing was quite a handful to start with on top of having no front brake ducts but I was determined to make it work.

 

[Beezer215]

You don't touch the rear diff?
Holy cow they have some of those way off and some so tight it's like driving a weighted tub around the track.
All the things you said are good to do but one I add when dialing in a car is to completely open up the rear diff. preload down, clutches down and ramp angles all the way up for no affect. Drive the car. Then see if I can make and subtle suspension adjustments to keep the car more planted (you're going to spin out most likely) after you get it pretty good, slowly add in more LSD until the car is stable. You'll find tht you probably won't even make it back to the original numbers. This way the car is more nimble, has more corner speed and you can control more of the oversteer then having it snap oversteer with no control.

That caterham sp/300 that you mentioned though, I think I had to add some diff tightening to be able to throw it around without worrying about it going round so it doesn't always work for all cars but is a good trick to get a car as loose as you can while retaining control. Loosening the diff allows you to feel the suspension changes you make a bit more.

 

[Morgoth_666]

You don't touch the rear diff?
Holy cow they have some of those way off and some so tight it's like driving a weighted tub around the track.
All the things you said are good to do but one I add when dialing in a car is to completely open up the rear diff. preload down, clutches down and ramp angles all the way up for no affect. Drive the car. Then see if I can make and subtle suspension adjustments to keep the car more planted (you're going to spin out most likely) after you get it pretty good, slowly add in more LSD until the car is stable. You'll find tht you probably won't even make it back to the original numbers. This way the car is more nimble, has more corner speed and you can control more of the oversteer then having it snap oversteer with no control.

That caterham sp/300 that you mentioned though, I think I had to add some diff tightening to be able to throw it around without worrying about it going round so it doesn't always work for all cars but is a good trick to get a car as loose as you can while retaining control. Loosening the diff allows you to feel the suspension changes you make a bit more.

I count the diff as proper tuning. It is a good way to quickly adjust the car's handling, but I don't usually mess it them unless I want to actually work on the setup. Sometimes if a car is too unruly I'll tighten it up or vice versa but that's just a quick band-aid to get by if needed. If I open it all up and try to set it all just right it takes me some time and I'll want to do it in a pure testing condition, so not something I'll do in the first hour of driving to prepare for a quick race in an unfamiliar car. Tires/brakes/gears are simple things I'll do to every car after a few laps(and that I don't really consider to be doing anything extra beyond "getting in and driving it").

 

[Bloodytears]

I drove Carrera RSR without diff and it was much better that with it, including that by default it is so tight, so then it couldn't be driven like RR car at all. Some default set ups indeed nonsense in certain options, like no idea default for what.

Have to agree about GT, that its gearbox tuning much more open and interesting, Project Cars have gearbox vision in a very weird way in some cars, where available gaps in ratios have no use, because they are too short or painfully long. I'm still figuring out perfect combo for M1, having at least one gear off the pattern.

 

[RACECAR]

So I recently started playing both the first Project CARS game AND this one on a wheel. Unsurprisingly, they are far different and more pleasant experiences (Because its difficult to find enjoyment when only a select few cars are drivable on pad, even with setup). That said, one observation I've made in trying this out is PC2 with a wheel feels abit more strange then the first one. There are four combos I tried between the two that really bring this out for me:

- Ford Fusion Stock Car at Road America: No prizes for guessing why this is a combo I fancied. This was one of the few things I enjoyed on a pad in the first Project cars game and the Wheel only made it more enjoyable. However, I found it even less enjoyable on PC2. Car just has an exaggerated and erratic feel to it, the first game it feels like a heavy car but not something impossible to predict and adapt to while on PC2 its nowhere near that. Turning in is somehow worse and even being more gentle with the power seems impossible to reasonably predict.

- Ford Falcon FG V8 at Bathurst: Once again, no grand prize for this being another favorite of mine. While I didn't exactly dig it as much on a pad, on the wheel its an entirely different story in the first game. Again its reasonably heavy but its not impossible to figure out and be reasonably quick in. PC2 however, it too suddenly feels more erratic, braking is suddenly no longer something I can reasonably depend on and again turn in is massively more difficult.

- Renault Megane Trophy V6 at Spa: This was a massive favorite of mine on the pad in the first game and again the wheel has only cemented it (Made slightly better by the fact that I now can rep my brand of wheel with one of the liveries too because hooray for unpaid advertising ) . However in PC2, is is far less enjoyable. Remember how in GTS the Mid-engined GR.3 cars seemed unrealistically difficult to drive? That is this car (Along with the RS01, which I already found hard to enjoy). Assists appear to do nothing to cure this either regardless of how smooth my inputs are, I might as well plug the pad back in because I'm having to crawl not to spin it out.

Formula Renault 3.5 at Circuit Barcelona De Catalunya: This is a combo I tended to really go for in the first game. Previously Formula B was the go to for this place but this car just felt so much better and using it with the wheel has only strengthened that enjoyment. The same is abit hard to manage in PC2. Brakes don't feel like they work nearly as well and the car feels far easier to spin with seemingly alot less effort to do so. Its thankfully not a crawl like the Megane but it just seems unnecessarily on edge to drive and its made the car far less enjoyable.

And for a big catch all, Any car at Watkins Glen: This track for me is enjoyable in just about anything I choose to drive. It could be the Mustang Boss 302, the Cadillac ATS.VR, The Oreca 03, the Mustang Trams Am (or even the previously mentioned Ford Fusion Stock Car). Anything was enjoyable here in the first game so the Wheel only added to that enjoyment (Even Formula A was somehow enjoyable here, which is something considering how it was barely drivable Anywhere). However in PC2, seems like everything just unnecessarily slides in places that it seemingly shouldn't. The esses is one such example, every car I drive there for some reason slides going into the short left (The less downforce, the worse it gets) when that shouldn't even happen. The Bus Stop is another example as even when I don't do the patented NASCAR charge through there (Shout out to Robby Gordon for making that look badass), cars will still feel like they want to break loose regardless of the downforce or speed.

Overall, both games are less of a nightmare on a wheel but somehow PC2 feels less stable then the first was. Obviously setups fix things and stuff, but it just seems odd that the difference between the two in physics (at least on a wheel for me) is so jarring. Just feels like the weight transfer is abit exaggerated on certain cars and some of the tracks I mention really bring this out.

 

[Johnnn]

Nice testing. That's the reason I ordered PC1. It will be different experience. I have it already from Games with gold but it needs its own story with a box. The games deserves it.

 

[RACECAR]

Formula Renault 3.5 at Circuit Barcelona De Catalunya: This is a combo I tended to really go for in the first game. Previously Formula B was the go to for this place but this car just felt so much better and using it with the wheel has only strengthened that enjoyment. The same is abit hard to manage in PC2. Brakes don't feel like they work nearly as well and the car feels far easier to spin with seemingly alot less effort to do so. Its thankfully not a crawl like the Megane but it just seems unnecessarily on edge to drive and its made the car far less enjoyable

After trying it again without racing other cars, I feel like I actually might've misjudged this car. Racing abunch of other cars with little to no mileage has kinda blinded me in my determination to try and overtake and not be taken out. Driving by itself, its actually not bad at all. Brakes are nowhere near as bad as I said they were (again, blinded by the red mist) and it actually is just as fun to drive in PC1, if only slightly more loose at the rear.

 

[IfAndOr]

Hi @RACECAR glad to see you "over here" and that you're enjoying the PCs. 👍

In PC1 the cars are definitely more planted to the track. PC2 has a more dynamic feel to it's handling model. You can't approach it the same way, you have to be more subtle with your inputs - with both steering and accelerator/brake.

As you've found the best way to learn a car is to take it out by itself. Diving straight into a race against the AI doesn't always go well and might give you the wrong impression.

That is this car (Along with the RS01, which I already found hard to enjoy)

Now funnily enough I love the RS01, we've recently finished a online race series using it. And one of the tracks was Watkins Glen - which it was great around. Stick at it and you'll get used to the weight at the rear (it's the old slow in fast out with this).
The Megane is quite good as well, it's just that I don't like it's engine sound. Try the Clio for a even more tail happy experience - you need drive that differently again!

I should ask what FFB and FOV settings are you using because these two options have a great impact on your driving impression I find.

 

[05XR8]

I'm on pad, but that Clio Cup I couldn't control and thought it was me. Watched the real world Clio Cup series and saw the back snaps/is loose, in real life. Felt impressed how SMS copied that car's true characteristics.

 

[Wolfe]

Now that the obstacle of PCARS2's analog stick steering is out of the way, its physics shine all the more. It still seems a bit "grabby" on the front end, more in some cars than others, but I am impressed by how it fares with a wheel and I think I've managed to tame the FFB.

Having given PCARS3 a solid turn, I still have a lot more to retread in PCARS2!

 

[Mr Grumpy]

I've come to the conclusion that the ffb graph in PC2 on xbox is wonky to say the least. So I go by feel only, I know what my TX feels like when it clips

How can the ffb be clipping when I'm using a controller, the games default graph is informative 100 50 50 50, it knows I'm using a controller from the settings screen so why is it still showing an active ffb graph?

I tested using my wheel & I purposely set my ffb high to make it clip then dropped the gain down to 0 effectively killing all ffb but the graph still thinks I'm clipping, no change whatsoever.
Then if I bring the gain up a bit I have my ffb all there feeling good, but that graph thinks I'm still clipping.

The graph doesn't react to gain settings although my actual wheel does it's almost like the game don't know what controller or wheel you've got or what settings you're using.

For the record I use a TX raw 80 50 40 30, I don't get clipping via feeling or the graph, the above example was testing purposes.

 

[Bloodytears]

It is better than GT Sport auto adjustment, PC still trying to make a stick 1:1 movement to steering. Probably why the game doesn't need to recognise input method.

 

[Bloodytears]

I think, I have lost an understanding of steering set up again. Tried to lower Speed Sensitivity to 85 and Steering Sensitivity to 50. In general a car became more responsive to slight movement, but had ignored any input on high speed, and it felt like there is some delay in steering, had to put it back on 100 and 70, as it was. On positive side, I know for sure, have to put more effort on turning in with cars like Mercedes E190, and have too much steering with cars like GT3 mid corner and exit.

Dampening helped a little with corrections, but gave a feeling of dampening obviously, which is annoying. Will leave it on 20 for a while.

The real trouble to mess with it now, are habits and set ups I have, they all going to malfunction badly, and probably will need another year to make it up. Drove behind a car, that used a wheel, and it clearly shows, with a controller I can't go as smooth as him, since always have to correct something, either turn two times instead of one in a slow car, or slowing down because starting to slide midcorner in fast.

As some modern classics poet said, having no talent and balance is stressing

 

[Johnnn]

Speed sensitivity should be very low I guess. I usually try 50 and hope I will go lower next time. Steering sensitivity could be lower than 50 to have less sensitive input but 50 is OK. Higher must be crazy because even with 50 my steering deadzone must be near 10 because of high sensitivity.

edit:
Or maybe you altered steering by tuning too much?

 

[Bloodytears]

@Johnnn it is all depends on speed obviously, if you test speed sensitivity in slow car, it will show nothing. Try to take Eau Rouge in GT1 with 50 SpS. Impossibru.

 

[Johnnn]

@Johnnn it is all depends on speed obviously, if you test speed sensitivity in slow car, it will show nothing. Try to take Eau Rouge in GT1 with 50 SpS. Impossibru.

No problem, I will test it today. I mostly use road cars so it's possible. For last day I just drifted around with R8.

 

[Bloodytears]

No problem, I will test it today. I mostly use road cars so it's possible. For last day I just drift around with R8.

Drifting isn't a concern, problem to avoid it and carry maximum speed into corner and fine steer from left to right in tight situation on speed above 200.