Project CARS 3 Developer Blog Explains New Tire Physics, Confirms Pit Stops Are History

MagpieRacer
How do you know it failed? We don't know enough about it to decide that.
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I don't know. By seeing peoples reaction? And general taken direction with this game? It won't have such amount of cars like Forza or GT7, it won't be as popular as both of this giants, it will have less features it doesn't look to promising in competing with this game isn't it?


Zeitoss
Not sure if Forza 7 has tire wear, I may have missed it.
But it has fixed tires for sure.

Not even sure if I have to reply to the rest of the message, because it is clearly a way of reading too literally a comment.

The objective taken is clear, the ways to get to that objective may slightly change from game to game ("this game has tire wear", "that game has tire pressure", etc etc).
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I think it has tyre wear. Not very complicated and great. But it has something like that.

 
MroczMR
I don't know. By seeing peoples reaction? And general taken direction with this game? It won't have such amount of cars like Forza or GT7, it won't be as popular as both of this giants, it will have less features it doesn't look to promising in competing with this game isn't it?
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Peoples reactions? All those people who have played it? Ok.

I mean, until it launches and 'the people' play it and cast judgement, we won't know.

And by casting judgement I'm not taking about the inevitable and sad review bombing it'll get on steam and metacritic. I mean actual people.
 
MagpieRacer
Well it sure as hell isn't targeting the project cars 2 audience.

He is right in that, that is definitely a target demographic for this game.
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And that is the million-dollar question, isn't it.

Who exactly are they actually targeting?

Now in one post they claimed that it's the following:

  • Hard-core sim racers
  • old school
  • been here since day 1
  • beginner

While it's not clear if the first three are all one category or three (or two separate ones), as they have pretty much alienated the 'hard-core' and 'been here since day 1', as well as potentially the 'old school' if by that they mean sim-racers. So only beginners remain, and I'm unsure what PC2 will offer to them that they can't get in either GTS or FM as a beginner?

Yes, it will have a tracklist far higher than those, but that's not going to be the main draw for a beginner (that's a draw fr the other three), it's also not the safest bet for a beginner in terms of history, as even a quick search will pop up past issues with the series in terms of accessibility, as such again GTS and FM will be safer bets. Its also going to struggle to draw an audience away from GTS and FM, as while it will offer a greater track count and different car list, it's not really offering a great deal more than that to them.

It may well turn out to be a perfect blend of accessibility and physics and a great drive, but it may also find that without a large enough audience to buy it, that it turns into a wasted opportunity.

Personally I level the blame for that at SMS themselves, they appear to have assumed that the core community would follow along without question and have made fundamental changes to the series without asking if those changes would be ones the community would be behind. I've mentioned before that this looks like classic insular development and its unfortunately for SMS now starting to bit back.

The very first general gaming site I've seen cover this seem just as confused as to the mixed messaging and if this will work or not, which is not what you want two months form release:

"This is a bit of a weird one, isn't it? Project CARS 3, the third instalment in what has been one of the PlayStation 4's most hardcore racing simulators, has confirmed that it will not feature pitstops, tyre wear, or even fuel usage. That is despite developer Slightly Mad Studios stating the driving title is still a racing sim which will keep the features and mechanics longtime fans have grown to love."

"So, what is actually going on here? The developer has gone on record stating that it is trying to make the third iteration more accessible, which is great, but it also wants to cater to the hardcore racing crowd. However, getting rid of pitstops, tyre wear, and fuel usage completely flies in the face of that effort."

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/202...and_fuel_usage_but_says_its_still_a_simulator

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There's zero denying its a mixed message of course. Time will tell when it launches, or even when we find out more and understand more about the features perhaps as to where it truly lies.
 
Zeitoss
Not sure if Forza 7 has tire wear, I may have missed it.
But it has fixed tires for sure.
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Forza does have tire wear, but it's rare for a car to burn up its tires faster than its fuel, so the tire wear pretty much never comes into play because you are always getting fresh ones when you need fuel.

Also, for some inexplicable reason, you can turn off fuel burn and tire wear, but not individually...

It's something that the racing enthusiast section of the Forza community have been grumbling about for years, and with the general stagnation of the series, has been growing a little louder as we head into FM8.
 
Morbid65
Forza does have tire wear, but it's rare for a car to burn up its tires faster than its fuel, so the tire wear pretty much never comes into play because you are always getting fresh ones when you need fuel.

Also, for some inexplicable reason, you can turn off fuel burn and tire wear, but not individually...

It's something that the racing enthusiast section of the Forza community have been grumbling about for years, and with the general stagnation of the series, has been growing a little louder as we head into FM8.
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Hopefully the changes they've talked about for FM8 will go some way to appeasing the concerns. I think they've talked about a new tyre model, suspension modelling and a new dynamic track system, which to me all sounds like its pointing toward perhaps a more sophisticated wear and build up model. Hopefully they'll show us more in July.
 
Ehhh i see this "Project Cars 3 is a New direction for series" and it makes me even more worried. Ok Lets PCars 3 doesn't have pit stop and focuses more about fun races. But still this "new direction for series" means we might won't EVER see pit stops again even in Project Cars 4. And this is heart breaking. I hope Assetto Corsa 2 on consoles will fill that void.
 
Nielsen
It's common sense that the fully-fledged simulator SMS told us to expect should have pit stops as a minimum requirement. It defies belief that it doesn't.
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Then direct your fury at sms ;-)
Im easy whether they have them or not... I will be buying the game as long as the pad controls work this time.
 
MagpieRacer
Care to share your settings to prove me wrong then? I've been waiting years for someone to show me it can be done.

Tried many, many have failed.
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I never got what the whole hullabaloo was with people and PC2's gamepad controls. Yeah, okay, they're not the best, but I have one working hand (more or less) and an XBOne controller. I have around 450 hours and while some cars are more difficult than others, I've never had an issue with the default pad setups. Must be a driver thing I guess.
 
slthree
I love, love, love PC2 and I thank Ian Bell for the many hours of phenomenal racing over the past 2+ years.

I'm fairly certain no one cares but I definitely won't be buying this game. I was hoping for better, more detail oriented pit stops. I never thought we would be going in the opposite direction.

It is heartbreaking for me to say this because I vowed to support Ian and buy all project cars games.

I don't like to make definitive statements but I do feel like a Sim racing game absolutely must have pit stops and the complications that surround pit stops, to really be simulation.

Even when I watch F1 or imsa or blancpain, I always love the drama of the pit stops and who's going to have a delay and who's going to get in somebody's way and who's going to come out how many seconds before another driver who's already on track.

I'm gutted.
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Exactly my thoughts, summed up concisely.

I was part of WMD for PC2, I even have a AI racer named after me and I love and still love the game. I too vowed to support Ian and the team going forward with continued evolution of something I believe in.

I no longer believe in this path, gutted.
 
It's a trend in sim racing now, first GT sport did away with tuning and they stated in the ad anyone can jump in and drive for all ages. Seems all devs are going in this direction. They want to cater to everyone to make more sales, the hardcore sim is a small niche devs know this which means small sales #.
 
MagpieRacer
Customisation is great when it works. I'm far from the only person who can't get a comfortable setup. Heck even SMS admitted it was trash on a gamepad. So good for you for having godlike pad control and a sixth sense for setup. 👍
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He isn't the only one who found them. I'll share mine with you later.
 
But pit stops strats are fun ?

This seems like a futile move to appeal to casuals that won't make any effect on that particular group but will instead annoy sim fans. I'm talking as someone who don't play PCARS so maybe I'm missing some internal fan context.
 
TurismoBad
But pit stops strats are fun ?

This seems like a futile move to appeal to casuals that won't make any effect on that particular group but will instead annoy sim fans. I'm talking as someone who don't play PCARS so maybe I'm missing some internal fan context.
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Funny thing. There was topic on Codemasters Forum about features request for GRID (2019 or next iterations) there were plenty of posts about adding Pit-Stops :lol: :lol:. It would be funny if the next grid would feature pit stop and Pcars don't xD
 
This game may be just what the PS4 needs. GTS alienated a lot of people, in my opinion. All of the sudden there are , no parts for cars you can buy. And not much of a career mode to speak of. I've played GT with 5 friends in the past. These are not people who play online with strangers and certainly not the type of people who are going to be on any forums. But they all bought the 'new Gran Turismo' and....simply don't play it.

Lack of racing options with friends compared to 5 & 6, not being able to put different parts on their cars contributes to them not playing. And I don't think they're alone. These, again in my opinion, are people who buy the game but you don't hear from. The Internet is all about drama and big reactions. When in reality it doesn't really matter that much. It doesn't *actually* affect your life. These types of people I'm talking about like cars and racing and aren't going to go to social media to air their concerns. They're just not going to play the game.

That's where I think PC3 is going to come in. It's still most likely going to have that sim heartbeat underneath, but buying cars, racing with friends, ie - lots of options, and just having fun with a game that is somewhat realistic while letting you do what you want - the PS4 doesn't really have that. I think it *IS* going to fill a very big hole that more hardcore sim racers don't know exist. A world where tire wear and pit stops don't ruin a game
 
Benny44
This game may be just what the PS4 needs. GTS alienated a lot of people, in my opinion. All of the sudden there are , no parts for cars you can buy. And not much of a career mode to speak of. I've played GT with 5 friends in the past. These are not people who play online with strangers and certainly not the type of people who are going to be on any forums. But they all bought the 'new Gran Turismo' and....simply don't play it.

Lack of racing options with friends compared to 5 & 6, not being able to put different parts on their cars contributes to them not playing. And I don't think they're alone. These, again in my opinion, are people who buy the game but you don't hear from. The Internet is all about drama and big reactions. When in reality it doesn't really matter that much. It doesn't *actually* affect your life. These types of people I'm talking about like cars and racing and aren't going to go to social media to air their concerns. They're just not going to play the game.

That's where I think PC3 is going to come in. It's still most likely going to have that sim heartbeat underneath, but buying cars, racing with friends, ie - lots of options, and just having fun with a game that is somewhat realistic while letting you do what you want - the PS4 doesn't really have that. I think it *IS* going to fill a very big hole that more hardcore sim racers don't know exist. A world where tire wear and pit stops don't ruin a game
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You are right in some areas. But still. It could be done without cutting it. If they weren't false advertising this game to sim crowd it won't get that much backlash.
 
MroczMR
You are right in some areas. But still. It could be done without cutting it. If they weren't false advertising this game to sim crowd it won't get that much backlash.
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Yeah I agree. While I've been defending SMS, I'm disappointed with no pit stops. I'm wondering if they were putting in livery editor (hopefully!), changing car dynamics due to different car parts, and they just couldn't get the processing power to put in pit stops with all the other additions. If that's the case, it comes down to choice....if you don't want to compromise a fairly advanced physics engine. And this is the choice they made. Just a theory
 
Benny44
Yeah I agree. While I've been defending SMS, I'm disappointed with no pit stops. I'm wondering if they were putting in livery editor (hopefully!), changing car dynamics due to different car parts, and they just couldn't get the processing power to put in pit stops with all the other additions. If that's the case, it comes down to choice....if you don't want to compromise a fairly advanced physics engine. And this is the choice they made. Just a theory
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I still hope it can be decent game maybe. If it manages to be something like Driveclub but with better physics I'm in. But i don't like the way SMS was not telling true. Those talk about "All sim you could want it is there etc" this is false marketing right now. I won't be preordering this game, but i will be watching and maybe I will buy it later in discout or something. But i don't expect it to replace Project Cars 2.
 
Apparently the guys a SMS are compiling a big FAQ which will be posted online. This from PCars discord


@[SMS] Fernando Moutinho when is the FAQ going up?
And where?

@Tool1312 As soon as is ready, we'll be posting it a link in all our social channels, including here
 
@MagpieRacer

Note one important thing, that those settings are built around speed sensitivity, so changing it lower than 95 will ruin the whole set up. Those settings are raw, so that means you have full control all the time, and counter steering, breaking and throttle should be applied with precision all the time.

Steering DZ 0
Steering S 70
Throttle DZ 0
Throttle S 40
Break DZ 16 (otherwise they will lock instantly with 90% pressure in car set up)
Break S 34
Speed S 97
Controller Dumping 0

This will not make you a super driver from the start, so try too use abs and stability control for a while to understand where settings fail or car set up. But I didn't changed anything here from the start.
 
Bloodytears
@MagpieRacer

Note one important thing, that those settings are built around speed sensitivity, so changing it lower than 95 will ruin the whole set up. Those settings are raw, so that means you have full control all the time, and counter steering, breaking and throttle should be applied with precision all the time.

Steering DZ 0
Steering S 70
Throttle DZ 0
Throttle S 40
Break DZ 16 (otherwise they will lock instantly)
Break S 34
Speed S 97
Controller Dumping 0

This will not make you a super driver from the start, so try too use abs and stability control for a while to understand where settings fail or car set up. But I didn't changed anything here from the start.
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Cool I'll give these a go tonight. Thank you. Found some comfortable settings pretty quickly with Assetto Corsa Competizione so I'm definitely keen to chase some gokd settings for this.
 
sgohsixthree
If everyone who played pc2 had the same experience as you, I doubt many people would be this upset over the new game. Sorry it didn't work well, because its been great for me with the same setup.
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So was it plug and play happiness for you? I'm really stumped as I gave it another go a month ago and I just couldn't get it to work well.

Scaff
Totally different experience for me, with exactly the same wheel.
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Did you just get plug and play with no issues at all? I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I gave it another go last month and I just couldn't drive it.
 
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Sam714
a post on the PCars forum:

This release sounds almost identical to Battlefield 5 debacle. The marketing boss said yesterday "if its not for you, don't buy it" that's almost exactly what the Battlefield 5 boss said before release when there was concern about what was happening with the game and caused outrage. It has been the most troubled game of the series with complaints all the way through its life and it was announced EA Cancelled Battlefield 5 support, it was meant to have another year and a half of support and more maps weapons etc, but the board disappointed with complaints and sales numbers told the team to drop it and start production of the new game Battlefield 6 after the disaster and complaints.

PC2 for some reason people keep calling a 'niche' game sat on the game sales chart at No.2 only beaten by destiny 2. Its even on game pass now picking up more supporters etc. Then they try and make out all these changes to OPTIONAL items are the things what were putting new players off, nonsense. Maybe poor controller handling I agree but taking out optional pit stops etc does not fix that LOL.

It all feels a bit like the BF5 disaster and I think its going to backfire big time, BF5 sold poorly and often at a discount and after that combined with endless complaints from its fanbase and PR disasters that the parent company decided to cut its losses.

I can see this game being similar especially after telling all the fans that dearly love PC2 "if you don't like it don't buy it"
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It's not on game pass, it was however part of games with gold 2 months back.
 
DB8-85
Did you just get plug and play with no issues at all? I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I gave it another go last month and I just couldn't drive it.
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I find very few titles are plug and play with a wheel, but I do use the following for my T300, give them a go and I hope they help.

 

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