Project Cars or Asseto Corsa

[lancia delta hf]

The trees are 2D in the console versions of Assetto Corsa? I hadn't even noticed, and I'm usually someone who puts a fair amount of weight on graphics.

I actually think it looks decent on the PS4 - certainly nowhere close to the "PS1/PS2 graphics!" hyperbole - particularly if you set the time of day to morning which gives more atmospheric lighting that doesn't highlight the somewhat bland landscape.
But obviously it's graphically left in the dust by Project Cars, which is often beautiful, particularly due to the much more advanced lighting and atmospheric features.

I only really notice the 2D trees in replays,whilst on track they do a convincing job. Also i think AC looks incredible in certain situations as you mentioned. I quite like light fog at 08: 00 on the Nords.

 

[Orayani]

Oh yeah 100%. I just can't afford the kind of PC I'd need for all that. Although, if I stopped buying stuff for my cars I'd probably be able to afford a good PC

Basically, real life driving trumps virtual driving. I'm able to do at least some half decent sim racing with my lowly PS4 and my old Fanatec wheel mounted to my totally home made rig hahaha

True but to what extent? There will be hardly any of us here that could say, I'm bored... I fancy taking a real Ferrari FXX K or 599XX Evo to the track today.

 

[Mike_grpA]

I thought the wet weather racing was lacking in PCARS as in too much grip overall on rain tyres. I remember doing a test by suddenly jerking the steering wheel in the fast sweepers on the Bugatti circuit in heavy rain conditions, and the car just stayed on track whilst i would have expected it to lose control. Wet weather racing in F1 2016 (although perceived as a simcade game), felt much more natural and predictable to me.

So it's nice to have all the extra features yes, but if all of them are a bit half arsed I'd prefer not to have them included until it's done properly. Night/day transitions were cool though there's no denying that.

True, but as with just about everything in Pcars, it's not that way with every car. Some classes' tyres are just overpowered, whether they be dry or wet tyres. But some are done much better. It sucks that some are like that, and that comes back to my point that in some cars, the physics don't stand out, but in others it really does. I don't think wet weather racing has been half arsed in Pcars, it seems to have had a lot of work go into it actually, I think that as with the rest of the game, the quality is just very patchy. This is something they are trying to address by having something like 8 months dedicated to QA testing for Pcars 2. I really hope they can release the game without these kinds of issues that the first one had.

True but to what extent? There will be hardly any of us here that could say, I'm bored... I fancy taking a real Ferrari FXX K or 599XX Evo to the track today.

To what ever extent you like. IMO, driving any car in a videogame will never match driving in real life. Can I drive an FXX K in real life? No, of course I can't. But that's not the right question, is it? The real question is: Do I get a thrill out of driving an FXX K in a videogame? The answer of course is no, absolutely not. Sim racing is fun, way more fun than any other kind of game to me, as a petrol head. However, driving in a game does not replicate the thrill that I get from driving fast in real life. I can have more fun on the right road in my 200hp Corolla than I ever would in any car in a sim.

Just a few days ago, a friend of mine wanted me to take his car for a drive (or a "hoon" as he'd call it). He recently lost his licence for 3 months, for drink driving (silly boy), and he doesn't want his car to just sit in his garage for that time, and I'm the only one other than himself and his dad that he trusts to drive it. The car is a 300hp APR tuned Golf GTI. Just mildly modified, but has really well setup coilovers and he recently put new yellowstuff pads and Nitto NT05s on it. He came with me, and told me to "thrash it" as hard as I wanted. Now just in this little hotted up Golf, with it's fat torque curve, sticky tyres, and good suspension and brakes, was more fun to drive on the roads near where I live, than anything I could do in a simulator.

Here's the route we took, for a round trip of 145kms. I must have said it a hundred times, but the state I live in is completely full of roads like this, that put the Nordschleife to shame. This is a fairly tame route compared to my favourite roads here, but it's pretty awesome to think these type of roads are less than half an hour from my house.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=7032934

Have a look, zoom in, check out the street view, and tell me again how any car in any sim compares to this.

Edit: Check out the elevation profile in that route. That gives a good idea of just how varied the corners and roads on this route were.

 

[mister dog]

True, but as with just about everything in Pcars, it's not that way with every car. Some classes' tyres are just overpowered, whether they be dry or wet tyres. But some are done much better. It sucks that some are like that, and that comes back to my point that in some cars, the physics don't stand out, but in others it really does. I don't think wet weather racing has been half arsed in Pcars, it seems to have had a lot of work go into it actually, I think that as with the rest of the game, the quality is just very patchy. This is something they are trying to address by having something like 8 months dedicated to QA testing for Pcars 2. I really hope they can release the game without these kinds of issues that the first one had.

I had no idea it was hit and miss with rain tyres too. I figured the tyre behavior would be more or less the same as it's the same model and not dependent on individual physics?

Yeah I don't remember if you are @ WMD2, but we're doing the brunt of the Q&A as we speak and there's still some way to go in pretty much all aspects. I hope SMS doesn't jump the gun looking at an eventual release date of GTS (but there's a good chance that will be delayed again), and tries to get PCARS 2 out before that. It might be a wise business decision as you have the whole market for yourself if you do so, but i'm not sure the game will be completely polished before that happens.

Even still there's still half a year to go before 'Septemberish' so enough time to polish there I suppose

 

[ALB123]

@Mike_grpA You are obviously correct. There is certainly no consumer level simulator that could come even remotely close to the thrill of driving an actual automobile. Heck, most people almost never do 100 mph in a real car. We're "driving" cars in our sims all day that are doing 100 mph in 2nd gear. You don't get that adrenaline rush that real, sporty driving gives you...and you don't need to be driving anything special as you pointed out. I know personally that I could never drive a Ferrari F40 on my local track the way that I could push it in Assetto Corsa. Maybe will a couple of years of professional training and even then...who knows? For most regular people it's not easy to totally remove the fear of dying in real life. The human body & brain like to protect themselves - unless you're a sociopath.

I've never played pCars, so I can't give any personal feedback on that sim, but I am sure that it's a very fine product. I look forward to trying pCars 2 when it becomes available. Perhaps I'll find a new favorite! You Assetto Corsa console players are in for a very big treat on your next update. Finally, all 151 cars in AC are on Tire Model 10 and every car has also had their inertia values adjusted. I think you're going to find that some of the cars that you felt were wonky are now feeling quite nice. For me, some of those wonky rides were from the Lotus brand. It probably has something to do with the fact that they were the first license Kunos locked down and therefore they probably haven't received much attention as the sim matured and Aristotelis & Stefano became more adept at programming cars.

I think most PC players would agree with me that our v.12.x updates have been another big step forward in the driving department. For an average skilled driver like me, I find myself much more in tune with what my car is doing. Thankfully, I am saving my cars in situations where I definitely would have spun pre-update. Of course, maybe that will only be felt by players with FFB wheels...I'm not sure.

Now that Kunos has all 151 cars at least all wearing the same sneakers, I really, really hope that Stefano directs all of his attention into making Assetto Corsa a much better "racing sim". The pCars players especially know what the shortcomings of AC are in the racing department...and I think if Stefano refocused his attention in that direction it could help Assetto Corsa get closer to a more level playing field when the green flag drops. He may never get it to match pCars, but I pray that he at least tries.

 

[Mike_grpA]

I had no idea it was hit and miss with rain tyres too. I figured the tyre behavior would be more or less the same as it's the same model and not dependent on individual physics?

You're right, it's one tyre model, but remember that Pcars models different types of tyres for every different class of car. As such, some have been done better than others. Unlike something like GT, where every car uses the same selection of tyres, Pcars tried to model the actual tyres that each type of car uses in real life. As I said, the success of that was very varied. They came very close to nailing some tyres, and ended up way off with others. I've read great things about how far the actual tyre model itself has come in Pcars 2 though, in regards to the behavioural issues it had in Pcars 1 having been rectified. So I'm hopeful that that will mean SMS can focus on getting the details on different types of tyres right this time. The difference in heating and cooling, as well as degradation, on all the different types of slicks, as well as the amount of grip and water dispersion of all the different wet tyres. Getting all of it right will be a monumental task, but I really hope they can nail it.

@Mike_grpA You are obviously correct. There is certainly no consumer level simulator that could come even remotely close to the thrill of driving an actual automobile. Heck, most people almost never do 100 mph in a real car. We're "driving" cars in our sims all day that are doing 100 mph in 2nd gear. You don't get that adrenaline rush that real, sporty driving gives you...and you don't need to be driving anything special as you pointed out. I know personally that I could never drive a Ferrari F40 on my local track the way that I could push it in Assetto Corsa. Maybe will a couple of years of professional training and even then...who knows? For most regular people it's not easy to totally remove the fear of dying in real life. The human body & brain like to protect themselves - unless you're a sociopath.

Yeah exactly. I'm not particularly interested in top speeds, and in any case, the roads I drive on for fun are so narrow and twisty that it's not a good idea to take your eyes off the road for even long enough to look at your speed lol. But there was a decent little straight on the drive we went on the other day, and I looked down briefly and found that I was doing a tad over 240kph (about 150mph). It doesn't sound like much, but the straight in question was very narrow, very bumpy, and went up and down in a series of crests and dips. At that speed we were getting a small touch of air on the crests, and hitting the bump stops in the dips. When I saw the speed, I immediately backed off to about 150 - 160kph. My friend asked why I'd backed off, and when I told him what speed we were doing he said "****, I didn't realise we were going that quick. Must have been having too much fun to notice" lol.

Now 240 felt very quick on that road in real life, but in a sim 240 feels totally sedate. To be fair though, those kind of roads can't really be compared to race tracks in a sim like AC. Maybe a better comparison would be the narrow twisty tarmac stages in Dirt Rally.

I've never played pCars, so I can't give any personal feedback on that sim, but I am sure that it's a very fine product. I look forward to trying pCars 2 when it becomes available. Perhaps I'll find a new favorite! You Assetto Corsa console players are in for a very big treat on your next update. Finally, all 151 cars in AC are on Tire Model 10 and every car has also had their inertia values adjusted. I think you're going to find that some of the cars that you felt were wonky are now feeling quite nice. For me, some of those wonky rides were from the Lotus brand. It probably has something to do with the fact that they were the first license Kunos locked down and therefore they probably haven't received much attention as the sim matured and Aristotelis & Stefano became more adept at programming cars.

I agree the Lotuses are the worst offenders. That being said, they are still a lot better than the most unrealistic cars in Pcars. I'm definitely looking forward to the next update. It will be nice to have the cars all up to the same quality standard.

I think most PC players would agree with me that our v.12.x updates have been another big step forward in the driving department. For an average skilled driver like me, I find myself much more in tune with what my car is doing. Thankfully, I am saving my cars in situations where I definitely would have spun pre-update. Of course, maybe that will only be felt by players with FFB wheels...I'm not sure.

Sounds good. I think the over the limit physics in AC is really where it shines most over Pcars. Pcars tends to be pretty unpredictable when you go beyond the limit. I've found pushing the limits in AC very intuitive. It's the only sim I've played to date where I didn't even have to practice to be able to drift competently. Drifting in Pcars felt hugely unrealistic, and you had to do very weird things with both car setup and your own driving style to achieve even half decent drifts. In AC, there were some bugs in the FFB and perhaps also the physics early on in the console version, that affected over the limit driving, but a few updates ago I found that it all feels very natural now.

Now that Kunos has all 151 cars at least all wearing the same sneakers, I really, really hope that Stefano directs all of his attention into making Assetto Corsa a much better "racing sim". The pCars players especially know what the shortcomings of AC are in the racing department...and I think if Stefano refocused his attention in that direction it could help Assetto Corsa get closer to a more level playing field when the green flag drops. He may never get it to match pCars, but I pray that he at least tries.

I personally don't need AC to introduce all the things it's missing compared to Pcars. I don't need it to have variable time and weather for example, because I think it would take them years to get it right. They've spent so many years getting AC to this point, and to be honest I'd rather they just add more tracks and cars and be done with it. Adding such massive features would just take forever, and most likely introduce a series of new bugs and issues into the game engine. If they can improve the AI a bit more, and bring some more content, particularly circuits, then I'll be stoked with it. As I said before, AC is my go to hotlap simulator. I don't care that it's career is terrible, or that it's missing all that stuff that Pcars does. I've got Pcars for when I want to do a big endurance race through the night, worrying about if the rain will start falling. I've got AC for the pure driving pleasure.

 

[TT92]

To what ever extent you like. IMO, driving any car in a videogame will never match driving in real life. Can I drive an FXX K in real life? No, of course I can't. But that's not the right question, is it? The real question is: Do I get a thrill out of driving an FXX K in a videogame? The answer of course is no, absolutely not. Sim racing is fun, way more fun than any other kind of game to me, as a petrol head. However, driving in a game does not replicate the thrill that I get from driving fast in real life. I can have more fun on the right road in my 200hp Corolla than I ever would in any car in a sim.

Just a few days ago, a friend of mine wanted me to take his car for a drive (or a "hoon" as he'd call it). He recently lost his licence for 3 months, for drink driving (silly boy), and he doesn't want his car to just sit in his garage for that time, and I'm the only one other than himself and his dad that he trusts to drive it. The car is a 300hp APR tuned Golf GTI. Just mildly modified, but has really well setup coilovers and he recently put new yellowstuff pads and Nitto NT05s on it. He came with me, and told me to "thrash it" as hard as I wanted. Now just in this little hotted up Golf, with it's fat torque curve, sticky tyres, and good suspension and brakes, was more fun to drive on the roads near where I live, than anything I could do in a simulator.

Here's the route we took, for a round trip of 145kms. I must have said it a hundred times, but the state I live in is completely full of roads like this, that put the Nordschleife to shame. This is a fairly tame route compared to my favourite roads here, but it's pretty awesome to think these type of roads are less than half an hour from my house.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=7032934

Have a look, zoom in, check out the street view, and tell me again how any car in any sim compares to this.

Edit: Check out the elevation profile in that route. That gives a good idea of just how varied the corners and roads on this route were.

After reading this I thought to myself "You sound so much like a younger me" ;-) First up a quick rundown on me. I am an adrenaline junkie and have been for years. I have owned GT Falcons, all sorts of other V8s and lots of hot bikes, not to mention a speed boat that topped out at 155kph!!! :-) After I decided "hooning" on the roads was getting silly I took up racing bikes. I have raced at Bathurst twice, several other Aussie tracks, many closed road circuits and of course my local WA track. Three years ago I even drove 4 laps of the Nordschleife in a modded VW Scirocco https://www.rentracecar.de/en/ I have even won a V8 drive day in V8 Touring Car at Calder Raceway.

You said "IMO, driving any car in a videogame will never match driving in real life". I would disagree here as I get just as much of a thrill (if not more). Even comparing to my laps at the Nordschliefe I have more fun in the "video game. In real life I had a 7,000 Euro deposit hanging over my head if I bent their car and that sort of took the edge off how much "fun" I could have. There is no pressing "Restart" in real life ;-) And those Armco railings are very close to edge of the track in places.

For me, the video game allows me to drive at 10/10s and be on "the edge" the whole time. In real life, self preservation puts a dampener on the situation and *IF* it doesn't you need specialised help ;-)

I had a look at your "hoon route" and all I could think of is I used to have a similar road where my mates and I would take our bikes for a pleasant little ride ;-) Well it was, until one day I hit a farm dog at nearly 180kph! And then I saw on the news the same week a person was killed in car when they hit a cow on the same bit of road and they were doing the legal speed limit.

So basically I do disagree with you. I find Sim racing to be just as satisfying as the real thing except it is just cheaper, safer and more convenient.

Lastly, as a suggestion stop hooning on the roads and start doing some track days at your local racetrack. Symmons plains isn't that far from you.

 

[Mike_grpA]

After reading this I thought to myself "You sound so much like a younger me" ;-) First up a quick rundown on me. I am an adrenaline junkie and have been for years. I have owned GT Falcons, all sorts of other V8s and lots of hot bikes, not to mention a speed boat that topped out at 155kph!!! :-) After I decided "hooning" on the roads was getting silly I took up racing bikes. I have raced at Bathurst twice, several other Aussie tracks, many closed road circuits and of course my local WA track. Three years ago I even drove 4 laps of the Nordschleife in a modded VW Scirocco https://www.rentracecar.de/en/ I have even won a V8 drive day in V8 Touring Car at Calder Raceway.

You said "IMO, driving any car in a videogame will never match driving in real life". I would disagree here as I get just as much of a thrill (if not more). Even comparing to my laps at the Nordschliefe I have more fun in the "video game. In real life I had a 7,000 Euro deposit hanging over my head if I bent their car and that sort of took the edge off how much "fun" I could have. There is no pressing "Restart" in real life ;-) And those Armco railings are very close to edge of the track in places.

For me, the video game allows me to drive at 10/10s and be on "the edge" the whole time. In real life, self preservation puts a dampener on the situation and *IF* it doesn't you need specialised help ;-)

I had a look at your "hoon route" and all I could think of is I used to have a similar road where my mates and I would take our bikes for a pleasant little ride ;-) Well it was, until one day I hit a farm dog at nearly 180kph! And then I saw on the news the same week a person was killed in car when they hit a cow on the same bit of road and they were doing the legal speed limit.

So basically I do disagree with you. I find Sim racing to be just as satisfying as the real thing except it is just cheaper, safer and more convenient.

Lastly, as a suggestion stop hooning on the roads and start doing some track days at your local racetrack. Symmons plains isn't that far from you.

To me there's a big difference between "fun" and "a thrill". Driving real cars fast, whether on a track or otherwise, has always been far more fun to me, and there's no actual thrill in driving in a game, as it's just essentially playing make believe. As far as hooning on the road goes, I know the roads around here very well, and know better than to drive hard where there are farms and houses and the real possibility of the risks that come with those things. The beauty of Tassie is the majority of the roads in this state go through thick bush land, and not much of our state is actually populated. I don't hoon in populated areas. The purpose of plotting that route in Gmap was simply to show the entire drive I went on the other day. We didn't drive fast the entire time. It's also far from the best route, and not where I'd go if I had a choice. We went that way because it was closest to my friend's house to take in some half decent roads. If given the choice, I'd have gone around 100 - 150km away from there, to where the really good roads are, and where you can drive for hours through the mountains and bush far away from anyone else.

I find it rather odd that anyone would suggest that you can get the same thrill in a racing sim that you can in a real car. It's like saying that playing a game of CoD will give you the same feeling as fighting a war lol.

 

[ALB123]

@Mike_grpA I didn't mean that AC should implement things like night driving and weather. Personally, I would never use either...maybe night drive, but I would never voluntarily choose to drive in the rain in a sim. What I meant was they need to improve the AI a bit (though I wouldn't put that too high on priority). They need to add things like pace car, formation lap & rolling start capabilities...better penalty system...better flag system...driver swapping for those who like to do endurance races, or just have fun with a teammate. Stuff like that, that is related to the act of racing.

Physics are great..FFB feels awesome...TM10 is their best so far. Aristotelis can figure out the brake temps for all of the cars and there will always be small tweaks of the cars & tires which will influence handling and behavior. So Aris will stay busy, for sure. If Marco can lock down some more circuits, cool... Even if he's going into meetings with the intention of not putting them into AC1 but AC2, if they're actually planning to do it...I know I speak from the point of someone who can install mods. I think I'm currently at 250 tracks, so I don't really care...but I do know that console players deserve some love too. 👍 You don't even wanna know how many cars I have...

 

[Mike_grpA]

@Mike_grpA I didn't mean that AC should implement things like night driving and weather. Personally, I would never use either...maybe night drive, but I would never voluntarily choose to drive in the rain in a sim. What I meant was they need to improve the AI a bit (though I wouldn't put that too high on priority). They need to add things like pace car, formation lap & rolling start capabilities...better penalty system...better flag system...driver swapping for those who like to do endurance races, or just have fun with a teammate. Stuff like that, that is related to the act of racing.

Physics are great..FFB feels awesome...TM10 is their best so far. Aristotelis can figure out the brake temps for all of the cars and there will always be small tweaks of the cars & tires which will influence handling and behavior. So Aris will stay busy, for sure. If Marco can lock down some more circuits, cool... Even if he's going into meetings with the intention of not putting them into AC1 but AC2, if they're actually planning to do it...I know I speak from the point of someone who can install mods. I think I'm currently at 250 tracks, so I don't really care...but I do know that console players deserve some love too. 👍 You don't even wanna know how many cars I have...

Yeah it's a fair point to bring up mods. If I was on PC I'd have the same priorities as you. Although mods can vary wildly in quality, and Kunos' vanilla tracks are bloody good. I think if they are looking at ever adding those things, they'll do it for a sequel. Patching in such major additions would be time consuming and could potentially introduce all kinds of bugs to the game. Better that they build the next game from the ground up to support all of that. They're having enough trouble sorting out the basic online features for the console crowd, so I'm not expecting miracles from them. They're a small team, so building such a nice little realistic hotlap simulator is definitely enough for me. I've got plenty of other sims I can use for other features anyway.

 

[Biggles]

PCars has a much more varied track environment with TOD weather, spectators waving stuff around etc. But I find none of that matters very much when you're actually driving. AC graphics are "good enough" - when you're actually driving you don't have the time to inspect the trackside details. AC provides good enough graphics to make the driving experience real - that's all that really matters. Replays are another matter, & AC does not do that well in that area.

I don't understand people who think that PCars physics are that good - they are fairly obviously not up to AC's level & it would seem that they are not really intended by SMS to have the same degree of realism.

 

[TT92]

To me there's a big difference between "fun" and "a thrill". Driving real cars fast, whether on a track or otherwise, has always been far more fun to me, and there's no actual thrill in driving in a game, as it's just essentially playing make believe. As far as hooning on the road goes, I know the roads around here very well, and know better than to drive hard where there are farms and houses and the real possibility of the risks that come with those things. The beauty of Tassie is the majority of the roads in this state go through thick bush land, and not much of our state is actually populated. I don't hoon in populated areas. The purpose of plotting that route in Gmap was simply to show the entire drive I went on the other day. We didn't drive fast the entire time. It's also far from the best route, and not where I'd go if I had a choice. We went that way because it was closest to my friend's house to take in some half decent roads. If given the choice, I'd have gone around 100 - 150km away from there, to where the really good roads are, and where you can drive for hours through the mountains and bush far away from anyone else.

I find it rather odd that anyone would suggest that you can get the same thrill in a racing sim that you can in a real car. It's like saying that playing a game of CoD will give you the same feeling as fighting a war lol.

Obviously my imagination and thus my immersion in the game is far more than yours. I get that. I am just making the point that for me I get the same thrill/fun/adrenaline rush as I can in real life. The mind is a powerful tool ;-)

Funny thing that you mentioned COD as I have been quite a big player of this too over the years. Some nights after several full on multiplayer rounds of Domo I shut down the PS and I feel quite shell shocked. I too find this game very immersive but the lag compensation has killed the game for me as it is almost unplayable now that I am on NBN :-( But I digress.

Another thing that I find is that my "hooning" tendencies are almost non-existent now on the road because I get my "fix" from the Sim. On the road I am quite an "old granny driver" now.

Although, having said that, Sims have a long way to go before they can replace a bike ride.... the wind in your face, the G Forces etc. Although I am quite sedate on my bike now too...... gravel rash has lost it's appeal a long time ago ;-)

BTW I still think you are far better off sedately driving down to Symmons Plains and having a proper hoon in a controlled environment where you can go flat out the whole time. Rather than just "risk taking" on a public road pit yourself against the clock and actually see how good you and your car really is. Rather than drive 7/10s or 8/10s on the road push it as hard as you dare on a track. That is real fun ;-)

 

[Mike_grpA]

BTW I still think you are far better off sedately driving down to Symmons Plains and having a proper hoon in a controlled environment where you can go flat out the whole time. Rather than just "risk taking" on a public road pit yourself against the clock and actually see how good you and your car really is. Rather than drive 7/10s or 8/10s on the road push it as hard as you dare on a track. That is real fun ;-)

You're of course assuming I haven't done that plenty, which I have. As fun as track days can be, they can never replace a good quiet mountain road. Track days, unless you can pay to have the track to yourself, often wind up being a series of short blasts between drivers who get in your way, whilst keeping an eye on your mirrors for guys in much faster cars. Only rarely can you spend a decent amount of time truly pushing the car. Not to mention, tracks like Symmons and Baskerville are very easy and get boring quickly, even at 10/10ths.

Obviously my imagination and thus my immersion in the game is far more than yours. I get that. I am just making the point that for me I get the same thrill/fun/adrenaline rush as I can in real life. The mind is a powerful tool ;-)

I'll be sure to tell the guys at Targa this year that they're wasting their time taking risks racing for real, since they can get the same rush by playing Dirt Rally. Wonder what their response would be to that?

People drive fast for the feeling they get. The freedom, the rush, the adrenaline, what ever it may be that they love about it, none of it can be replicated by a simulator. If it could, motorsport wouldn't be a thing anymore. Racing drivers wouldn't risk their lives on the track/rally stages if they could get the same feelings in a sim.

edit: Just to clarify once again, I don't drive fast or dangerously in built up or populated areas. I'd never condone **** like street racing for instance, because it's putting others at risk. I'm careful about where I drive hard, I don't use the wrong side of the road or cut blind corners, and the only person in any danger would be me if I messed something up badly. I'm just lucky to live in a place where the vast majority of the state is not populated, and the areas that aren't tend to be very mountainous, with massive forests, and almost endless roads snaking through the forests and over the mountains. just thought I should clear that up.

 

[ribloGT]

It's too bad you can't take the best parts of pCars and the best parts of Assetto Corsa and create one great console sim!

The career, day/night/weather and online of pCars with the driving model, laser scanner tracks and FFB of AC all with a rooster of cars/tracks from both games would make the Perfect racing simulator ever...

BTW to the OP... Get both games with all the DLCs and patches... They are both fun to play (i like better AC but i play pCars too)...

 

[FSportIS]

Why dont you own both? I have both and enjoy both.

AC for hot lapping and appreciation of physics and realism while Pcars is fun for racing with the AIs in dynamics weather with many cars/tracks combo.

For online racing, I think both communities have good leagues. I would recommend the leagues that are related to SNAIL (one of the biggest league in GT6). I think some of their members move to AC and some moved to Pcars. No matter which game you choose, avoid random online racing because it is not race but death match.

 

[Mike_grpA]

The career, day/night/weather and online of pCars with the driving model, laser scanner tracks and FFB of AC all with a rooster of cars/tracks from both games would make the Perfect racing simulator ever...

BTW to the OP... Get both games with all the DLCs and patches... They are both fun to play (i like better AC but i play pCars too)...

100% agree. Both games have upsides and downsides, so having both means being able to enjoy what each has to offer. Hopefully one day we do get that game with physics realism on par with or better than AC, and all the features and race weekend/career atmosphere of Pcars.

 

[Orayani]

To me there's a big difference between "fun" and "a thrill". Driving real cars fast, whether on a track or otherwise, has always been far more fun to me, and there's no actual thrill in driving in a game, as it's just essentially playing make believe. As far as hooning on the road goes, I know the roads around here very well, and know better than to drive hard where there are farms and houses and the real possibility of the risks that come with those things. The beauty of Tassie is the majority of the roads in this state go through thick bush land, and not much of our state is actually populated. I don't hoon in populated areas. The purpose of plotting that route in Gmap was simply to show the entire drive I went on the other day. We didn't drive fast the entire time. It's also far from the best route, and not where I'd go if I had a choice. We went that way because it was closest to my friend's house to take in some half decent roads. If given the choice, I'd have gone around 100 - 150km away from there, to where the really good roads are, and where you can drive for hours through the mountains and bush far away from anyone else.

I find it rather odd that anyone would suggest that you can get the same thrill in a racing sim that you can in a real car. It's like saying that playing a game of CoD will give you the same feeling as fighting a war lol.

Your heart has never been racing away trying to get pole or a race online where two or three were on your bumper or vice versa for the final lap? Thats not fun nor thrilling?

 

[Mike_grpA]

Your heart has never been racing away trying to get pole or a race online where two or three were on your bumper or vice versa for the final lap? Thats not fun nor thrilling?

I used to race in leagues online, and while it can be a whole lot of fun, I don't find it gives me even remotely the same thrill as real driving does. It's a completely different thing. You could make a similar comparison to other genres. Do FPS games get the heart going during tense moments when there's a very real chance you could die in game and lose a lot of progress, or die online and lose the match? Yeah for sure. Do FPS games accurately replicate the feeling of knowing you could actually die in real life, or that somebody is trying to kill you? I somehow doubt it (I haven't fought in a real war, so I'm just guessing on this one). Can you get your heart going in a fighting game, when the fight's close, and it could go either way? Yeah for sure. Does it accurately replicate the feeling you get when you have somebody trying to bash your bloody head in for real? Not even remotely.

The real sensations of driving and racing can not be replicated by a simulator, and just as I'm sure that online tournaments of EA's UFC will never actually replace the real thing, I'm positive that online sim racing leagues will never replace real motorsport. The reason is because real life is always better.

Edit: In any case, I think this off-topic banter should draw to a close, so I won't go any further with this.

 

[FSportIS]

I think I agree with Mike. No matter how fancy "sim" racing gets, it will never replace real life racing. I do autocross, time trials on real tracks first BEFORE going into sim racing because real racing is too expensive. A car would cost 5 digit, each session cost 3 digit, brake pad, brake line, oil change, and tires that required to run just couple laps can cost thousands which you can use to build a fancy racing rig. In sim racing, I have put in about a thousand dollars and have a pretty good set up already and I can run millions miles in many tracks with many cars that I never be able to afford to buy. That is why I stop real racing and start sim racing now The biggest cons in sim no matter how good the game can get is the lack of G-force that can be felt in your butt. I mean even the motion platform is not able to replicate it because unless it is moving at a high speed, it aidn't doing the real g force. Also, lots of the motion exaggerate the weight transfer especially for race cars. In a stiff cars, the weight transfer is minimized and you don't rock back and forth so crazy like that in the chair on a motion platform. Another thing is simulating the brake and gas. G29, T3PA, and even mid end Fanatec products and all that. Many of them are day and night difference between the real cars. If you can drive a real car, you can already tell how big of a difference and the limitations of those hardware. I have personally bought many set of pedals (Logitech DFGT, T300 stock, T3PA, T3PA pro, T3PA with mod, Fanatec Clubsport V3) trying to get the feel I am looking for. None are perfect but the closest one that I find is the Fanatec Clubsport V3. I am so far happy with that pedal.

Beside the lack of feel of gforce, the sense of speed is definitely lacking. In many instance, when I drive in games, I have a vague sense of speed. The best approximation of speed is knowing what gear I am in or best is to directly look at the speed. In real life, I can feel through eyes, ears, hands, feet, body and even psychology of mind. The sense of "fear" is definitely lacking in sims. I have seen some ridiculous fast driving in game with weird set up, I dare people will do that in real life. You won't have a "restart" option. That is also why sim racing best lap times are better than real life ones in the same car on the same track.

Also sim racing will have a hard time simulating the sense of smell. In real life, once your tires heat up and you start to slide a little bit here and there, oh yeah, that awful smell of rubber burning will stay with you.

Last but not least, the sense of heat is hard to simulate. When you are driving your car near the limit under the hot sun without the air condition on, you are sitting inside your car with a big helmet and sweating like a pig at 100F or hotter. That is day and night difference of how you sit comfortably inside your house racing in the racing rig. Well, to be honest, I wish real life would be that comfortable like this.

Anyways, Assetto Corsa, iRacing... are all nice and top notch or what not but it will never be as real as real life

 

[Speedster911]

I think I agree with Mike. No matter how fancy "sim" racing gets, it will never replace real life racing. I do autocross, time trials on real tracks first BEFORE going into sim racing because real racing is too expensive. A car would cost 5 digit, each session cost 3 digit, brake pad, brake line, oil change, and tires that required to run just couple laps can cost thousands which you can use to build a fancy racing rig. In sim racing, I have put in about a thousand dollars and have a pretty good set up already and I can run millions miles in many tracks with many cars that I never be able to afford to buy. That is why I stop real racing and start sim racing now The biggest cons in sim no matter how good the game can get is the lack of G-force that can be felt in your butt. I mean even the motion platform is not able to replicate it because unless it is moving at a high speed, it aidn't doing the real g force. Also, lots of the motion exaggerate the weight transfer especially for race cars. In a stiff cars, the weight transfer is minimized and you don't rock back and forth so crazy like that in the chair on a motion platform. Another thing is simulating the brake and gas. G29, T3PA, and even mid end Fanatec products and all that. Many of them are day and night difference between the real cars. If you can drive a real car, you can already tell how big of a difference and the limitations of those hardware. I have personally bought many set of pedals (Logitech DFGT, T300 stock, T3PA, T3PA pro, T3PA with mod, Fanatec Clubsport V3) trying to get the feel I am looking for. None are perfect but the closest one that I find is the Fanatec Clubsport V3. I am so far happy with that pedal.

Beside the lack of feel of gforce, the sense of speed is definitely lacking. In many instance, when I drive in games, I have a vague sense of speed. The best approximation of speed is knowing what gear I am in or best is to directly look at the speed. In real life, I can feel through eyes, ears, hands, feet, body and even psychology of mind. The sense of "fear" is definitely lacking in sims. I have seen some ridiculous fast driving in game with weird set up, I dare people will do that in real life. You won't have a "restart" option. That is also why sim racing best lap times are better than real life ones in the same car on the same track.

Also sim racing will have a hard time simulating the sense of smell. In real life, once your tires heat up and you start to slide a little bit here and there, oh yeah, that awful smell of rubber burning will stay with you.

Last but not least, the sense of heat is hard to simulate. When you are driving your car near the limit under the hot sun without the air condition on, you are sitting inside your car with a big helmet and sweating like a pig at 100F or hotter. That is day and night difference of how you sit comfortably inside your house racing in the racing rig. Well, to be honest, I wish real life would be that comfortable like this.

Anyways, Assetto Corsa, iRacing... are all nice and top notch or what not but it will never be as real as real life

👍👍

 

[lancia delta hf]

I get a thrill from racing in a sim, not always but i get it. It just isn't to the same extent that you can get from the real thing.

 

[Cote Dazur]

@Mike_grpA totally agree with you when comparing SIM driving and real driving, although a perfectly legitimate hobby on it's own, SIM driving is just a pale substitute to real driving. Just so much of what makes driving such a wholesome experience is missing, the strange mix of excitement,discomfort, apprehension, physical demand and sheer power of a sport car, are just not there in a SIM.
I spend an average of one hour a day SIM driving and enjoy every minute of it, but it does not make it even close to what a brisk Sunday morning drive on an average road in an average car feels like.
@TT92 yes the mind can help fill part of the gap, but it never makes SIM driving anywhere near what driving is really like. For some one like you with track experience in cars and motorcycle, like me, you comments are intriguing.
Yes it can be fun not to have to fear the consequences, but still the real life experience is full of various consequences that are an intricate part of the experience, they are the difference between a "game' and real life. One might even prefer SIM to real life driving for all those reason, but it does not change that SIM driving is just missing too much when compare to real driving to be able to say that they are remotely close in terms of experience.

 

[TT92]

edit: Just to clarify once again, I don't drive fast or dangerously in built up or populated areas. I'd never condone **** like street racing for instance, because it's putting others at risk. I'm careful about where I drive hard, I don't use the wrong side of the road or cut blind corners, and the only person in any danger would be me if I messed something up badly. I'm just lucky to live in a place where the vast majority of the state is not populated, and the areas that aren't tend to be very mountainous, with massive forests, and almost endless roads snaking through the forests and over the mountains. just thought I should clear that up.

Yep it can be pleasant and quite a lot of fun. Careering around a blind corner on one of these mountainous roads only to find a logging truck on your side of the ride or a wet apex where the last rain is still seeping out of the hill or something dead in the middle of the road (eg roo, cow, wombat) or even that a logging truck has kicked up gravel and deposited it right at the apex. Yep these things get the adrenaline running for me too ;-) Or the frustration of catching up to a total moron towing a caravan :-(

Basically you are saying you enjoy the danger and the risk taking aspect of it, I get that because I have done all these things myself (and have the scars to prove it) ;-)

I guess I am just lucky to have found a much safer (and cheaper) outlet ;-)

 

[Mike_grpA]

Yep it can be pleasant and quite a lot of fun. Careering around a blind corner on one of these mountainous roads only to find a logging truck on your side of the ride or a wet apex where the last rain is still seeping out of the hill or something dead in the middle of the road (eg roo, cow, wombat) or even that a logging truck has kicked up gravel and deposited it right at the apex. Yep these things get the adrenaline running for me too ;-) Or the frustration of catching up to a total moron towing a caravan :-(

Basically you are saying you enjoy the danger and the risk taking aspect of it, I get that because I have done all these things myself (and have the scars to prove it) ;-)

I guess I am just lucky to have found a much safer (and cheaper) outlet ;-)

From the way you're responding, you seem to be assuming I'm a naive kid who has never encountered any of these things before lol. I've been driving these roads since I was a kid, and have been in all kinds of situations. If you've got some skill and experience behind the wheel, and a good head on your shoulders, you can handle these kinds of things.

Coming round a blind corner to find a log truck in front? That's why you make sure you've got good brakes.
Wet apex? this simply doesn't jump up on you, unless you're a moron. It's very easy to spot the kind of areas where surface water will persist, such as narrow roads though forests where the sun can barely (if at all) hit the road. It's particularly easy to know where such hazards are possible when you know the roads you drive on (I never drive hard on a road until I've been on it a few times to learn it). The same thing applies to learning where black ice is common in winter (although I don't drive fast on these roads during winter. It's my summer fun).
Something dead in the middle of the road? It's not the dead things that pose a hazard actually. Dead things on the road happen all the time, and since I don't drive slammed or stanced cars, it's never been an issue. Also, you don't see dead cows in the middle of the bush or mountains, and our roos are tiny compared to the ones on the mainland.
Gravel on the road? Yeah this happens from time to time, but more common is the road itself is old and cracked and low quality, or dusty. Tassie roads, especially the ones people rarely use, are never in good condition. They are very much like old tarmac rally roads. You go around a blind corner expecting these things, they don't surprise you. Only an idiot would drive on such roads and not expect it.

Caravans? Yeah, you bloody mainlanders coming down here to look at the beautiful scenery But seriously, this is another case of "that's why you have good brakes".

Yes I enjoy the thrill and the rush of driving fast, and part of that is danger. But this is why anybody drives fast, including racing drivers. Some people don't like danger, and driving fast scares them, and these people should do all their fast driving in sims. I love sims, and thoroughly enjoy them, but they'll never replace real spirited driving.

 

[SpaceBreed]

I get thrills by just looking at my rig coming together and wonder what sort of fun i will be having when Private lobbies come through, the real thrill though is from my car in real life, nothing beats that, flooring it at at traffic light is the best thing ever

 

[TT92]

From the way you're responding, you seem to be assuming I'm a naive kid who has never encountered any of these things before lol. I've been driving these roads since I was a kid, and have been in all kinds of situations. If you've got some skill and experience behind the wheel, and a good head on your shoulders, you can handle these kinds of things.

Coming round a blind corner to find a log truck in front? That's why you make sure you've got good brakes.
Wet apex? this simply doesn't jump up on you, unless you're a moron. It's very easy to spot the kind of areas where surface water will persist, such as narrow roads though forests where the sun can barely (if at all) hit the road. It's particularly easy to know where such hazards are possible when you know the roads you drive on (I never drive hard on a road until I've been on it a few times to learn it). The same thing applies to learning where black ice is common in winter (although I don't drive fast on these roads during winter. It's my summer fun).
Something dead in the middle of the road? It's not the dead things that pose a hazard actually. Dead things on the road happen all the time, and since I don't drive slammed or stanced cars, it's never been an issue. Also, you don't see dead cows in the middle of the bush or mountains, and our roos are tiny compared to the ones on the mainland.
Gravel on the road? Yeah this happens from time to time, but more common is the road itself is old and cracked and low quality, or dusty. Tassie roads, especially the ones people rarely use, are never in good condition. They are very much like old tarmac rally roads. You go around a blind corner expecting these things, they don't surprise you. Only an idiot would drive on such roads and not expect it.

Caravans? Yeah, you bloody mainlanders coming down here to look at the beautiful scenery But seriously, this is another case of "that's why you have good brakes".

Yes I enjoy the thrill and the rush of driving fast, and part of that is danger. But this is why anybody drives fast, including racing drivers. Some people don't like danger, and driving fast scares them, and these people should do all their fast driving in sims. I love sims, and thoroughly enjoy them, but they'll never replace real spirited driving.

We were all "naive kids" once and my reply was more about reminiscing about my experiences than critiquing yours. So I am sorry if you took that as a criticism and apologise for any offence.

OK here is the bottom line. I used to do exactly what you do. After a few close calls I decided I would take my racing urges to accredited race tracks instead. No matter what you may think you cannot push to the limits on a public road. If you are then you are crazy and need to have your licence revoked. Like I said, I have and I have the scars to prove it. That naive kid in me grew up. On a track you can push to the limits and can truly explore what those limits really really are in relative safety.

Here in WA we have developed a real Police State mentality where it comes to cars. People are losing their cars here from other "concerned motorists" sending in dash cam footage and even one bloke lost his car over a YouTube video!

"Spirited road driving" here is getting very hard and the cops will quite often target those nice bits of road on a sunny Sunday afternoon :-(

BTW we both live in the wrong part of the world. I spent 3 days in Nurburg and drove 4 laps of the Nordschleife Tourist track in a modded VW Scirocco. The Go Pro footage I have looks identical to what bonnet view in AC looks like which also adds to the realism of the game for me. AC reproduces quite accurately what I saw and from the same perspective and has the most real physics of any game I have tried.

The Nurburgring, now this is a "hoons" parradise. There were guys parked in front of the local pub changing wheels on their worked 911s and putting slicks on. There was every single conceivable hot car that you could imagine there. Watching from the sidelines it was hilarious to see a Ferrari 458 being rounded up and over taken by a Suzuki Swift! It was awesome to watch 2 factory BMW M4s having a real go. Or when I was on the track doing about 180kph and found an old Mk3 Landrover chugging around at a crawl. Local heros in various M3s just being idiots. It was an experience alright and then to top it off the roads around the track were nearly as good and with a speed limit of 130kph as well :-) And I was p!ssed. I had ordered an M3 and the Hertz gave me a Volvo tractor (S50 diesel Wagon!!!) What a waste of some brilliant roads :-( I should add, the Germans have a different attitude to speed and speed limits, go as fast as you like but do it safely. And the roads around The Ring you will not do the speed limit around most of the corners in a normal car anyway.

To sum up, basically we are more alike than different. I am only giving you my personal opinions and swapping some stories ;-)

 

[Mike_grpA]

We were all "naive kids" once and my reply was more about reminiscing about my experiences than critiquing yours. So I am sorry if you took that as a criticism and apologise for any offence.

OK here is the bottom line. I used to do exactly what you do. After a few close calls I decided I would take my racing urges to accredited race tracks instead. No matter what you may think you cannot push to the limits on a public road. If you are then you are crazy and need to have your licence revoked. Like I said, I have and I have the scars to prove it. That naive kid in me grew up. On a track you can push to the limits and can truly explore what those limits really really are in relative safety.

Here in WA we have developed a real Police State mentality where it comes to cars. People are losing their cars here from other "concerned motorists" sending in dash cam footage and even one bloke lost his car over a YouTube video!

"Spirited road driving" here is getting very hard and the cops will quite often target those nice bits of road on a sunny Sunday afternoon :-(

BTW we both live in the wrong part of the world. I spent 3 days in Nurburg and drove 4 laps of the Nordschleife Tourist track in a modded VW Scirocco. The Go Pro footage I have looks identical to what bonnet view in AC looks like which also adds to the realism of the game for me. AC reproduces quite accurately what I saw and from the same perspective and has the most real physics of any game I have tried.

The Nurburgring, now this is a "hoons" parradise. There were guys parked in front of the local pub changing wheels on their worked 911s and putting slicks on. There was every single conceivable hot car that you could imagine there. Watching from the sidelines it was hilarious to see a Ferrari 458 being rounded up and over taken by a Suzuki Swift! It was awesome to watch 2 factory BMW M4s having a real go. Or when I was on the track doing about 180kph and found an old Mk3 Landrover chugging around at a crawl. Local heros in various M3s just being idiots. It was an experience alright and then to top it off the roads around the track were nearly as good and with a speed limit of 130kph as well :-) And I was p!ssed. I had ordered an M3 and the Hertz gave me a Volvo tractor (S50 diesel Wagon!!!) What a waste of some brilliant roads :-( I should add, the Germans have a different attitude to speed and speed limits, go as fast as you like but do it safely. And the roads around The Ring you will not do the speed limit around most of the corners in a normal car anyway.

To sum up, basically we are more alike than different. I am only giving you my personal opinions and swapping some stories ;-)

I didn't take any offense mate, so it's all good. I just think that we have different ways of looking at it due to the very different places we live. WA is a completely different beast to Tassie.

I don't believe I live in the wrong part of the world. Tassie's roads are every bit as good as the best roads in the world. I'd love to go to Germany someday though, for a lot of reasons, one of which is their rich motoring culture and history. There's so much I want to see there though, that I may have to save for a long holiday lol. (The Mrs is also half German, so she's got family there).

If you haven't been before, I'd recommend coming down here for Targa. Even just following the Targa circus around the state at sedate speeds, I think you'd see that what you said of the roads around the ring is true for the vast majority of our roads. The rural speed limit here is only 100kph, but good luck getting close to that in corners on the inland roads in the west and midlands.

Anyway, I understand what you're trying to say, and I appreciate your perspective. But my perspective is different because of growing up in such a different place. No doubt our upbringings were different too.

 

[Speedster911]

We were all "naive kids" once and my reply was more about reminiscing about my experiences than critiquing yours. So I am sorry if you took that as a criticism and apologise for any offence.

OK here is the bottom line. I used to do exactly what you do. After a few close calls I decided I would take my racing urges to accredited race tracks instead. No matter what you may think you cannot push to the limits on a public road. If you are then you are crazy and need to have your licence revoked. Like I said, I have and I have the scars to prove it. That naive kid in me grew up. On a track you can push to the limits and can truly explore what those limits really really are in relative safety.

Here in WA we have developed a real Police State mentality where it comes to cars. People are losing their cars here from other "concerned motorists" sending in dash cam footage and even one bloke lost his car over a YouTube video!

"Spirited road driving" here is getting very hard and the cops will quite often target those nice bits of road on a sunny Sunday afternoon :-(

BTW we both live in the wrong part of the world. I spent 3 days in Nurburg and drove 4 laps of the Nordschleife Tourist track in a modded VW Scirocco. The Go Pro footage I have looks identical to what bonnet view in AC looks like which also adds to the realism of the game for me. AC reproduces quite accurately what I saw and from the same perspective and has the most real physics of any game I have tried.

The Nurburgring, now this is a "hoons" parradise. There were guys parked in front of the local pub changing wheels on their worked 911s and putting slicks on. There was every single conceivable hot car that you could imagine there. Watching from the sidelines it was hilarious to see a Ferrari 458 being rounded up and over taken by a Suzuki Swift! It was awesome to watch 2 factory BMW M4s having a real go. Or when I was on the track doing about 180kph and found an old Mk3 Landrover chugging around at a crawl. Local heros in various M3s just being idiots. It was an experience alright and then to top it off the roads around the track were nearly as good and with a speed limit of 130kph as well :-) And I was p!ssed. I had ordered an M3 and the Hertz gave me a Volvo tractor (S50 diesel Wagon!!!) What a waste of some brilliant roads :-( I should add, the Germans have a different attitude to speed and speed limits, go as fast as you like but do it safely. And the roads around The Ring you will not do the speed limit around most of the corners in a normal car anyway.

To sum up, basically we are more alike than different. I am only giving you my personal opinions and swapping some stories ;-)

That's interesting to know, but wasn't this about AC vs PCARS? Follow ypur own advice and stay on-topic fella.

Mods! Ohh mods, yooo hoooo!

 

[Mike_grpA]

That's interesting to know, but wasn't this about AC vs PCARS? Follow ypur own advice and stay on-topic fella.

Mods! Ohh mods, yooo hoooo!

I apologise for my part in the off topic banter, but to be fair, the thread was only about OP asking if he should get one or the other, and pretty much everyone said "get both", so maybe we should all just let the thread die.

 

[TT92]

That's interesting to know, but wasn't this about AC vs PCARS? Follow ypur own advice and stay on-topic fella.

Mods! Ohh mods, yooo hoooo!

Speedster911 I didn't answer your private post to me because I didn't want to start an argument. It looks like you are pursuing me because you really want one. I wont happen.

For the record, the banter between myself and Mike_grpA IMHO was quite on topic because we discussed how close to "reality" AC is. It is difficult to discuss a Sim without alluding to how much of a Sim it actually is.

From a mods' point of view I would think that they will glad that there is some actual posting going on in this forum at the moment because gee, it's been quiet around here lately.