Project R

  • Thread starter Mr Latte
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the_greeze
That is completely over-the-top and unrealistic. Might be fun but it's not accurate... :)

I'm thinking about motion for my cockpit but it certainly won't be anything like that. Barf bag anyone? :yuck:
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Like previously said, have you tried it?

Have i tried it? No. And yes please, do watch Gregger's test with a Star Mazda (correct me if im wrong). As i understand, the exaggerated motions are there to try to replicate the G-forces in real life. I would've turned off the lights, put on a helmet, and have two additional monitors if i was that dude (in the video). Pure epicness in my opinion.

p.s. Apologies to Latte for the thread jack. This will be my last post about motion cockpits - unless of course you continue the conversation yourself :)
 
The topic has come up a few times. I'm not interested in motion besides consoles do not support it.

Today with help from a friend I can confirm that GT5 will output 3D and still enable multiscreens. The issue with glasses working is indeed as I presumed. Infared type, DLP link glasses will not sync with more than one display at a time.

I would assume that Sony's own 3D shutter glasses also have the same issue of only syncing with one display at a time. This is very likely why Sony have never promoted "3D Multiscreens" feature as it will not work with their own 3D shutter glasses technology.

Their is a further test that I can do using RF glasses which work via a separate transmitter connected to each projector. Only one transmitter was available during this test. It is still uncertain if this would work either but I will look to buy a 2nd transmitter for a future test to be certain. If each RF transmitter can be set to identical frequencies then it may yet work.

If not then the only way to achieve "Multiscreen 3D" would be via 3D displays that use passive glasses like those used in cinemas. A technology LG seems to of adopted with some of their 3DTVs. Also some modern monitors may offer passive technology and not rely on shutter glasses.
 
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the_greeze
So, to use your argument; have you tried it?
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Unfortunatly I havent but I also havent labeled it accurate or unaccurate... it would be stupid for me to do so...

Back on topic the motion sim rig wouldnt be a good ideia because of the project (from my understanding) being more console directed and the fact that the current generation of consoles doesnt support motion rigs...
 
Ref 3D/Multiscreen Testing
Ive yet to see someone else on GTP offer a similar test to this, so I was eager to find out if it would work.
This is something that has been puzzling me for a couple of months.

Well for anyone interested, not a great image but this is from the testing earlier today.
Displays were not calibrated it was just a quick test but as you can see dual projectors are both in 3D.

The glasses would only sync with one screen at a time and turning your head with infared glasses has them losing the signal.

At least we know that the game will allow "3D Multiscreens" to be selected together, with no limitation regards the game enabling it.

 
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Hey, hey, Mr Latte! Is the embargo over and you're finishing your review work? Or are these just authorized teases?

I'm anxious to find out which wheel earns the coveted "Platinum Cookie"!
 
Latte, check out my finished projector setup dude. Get 3 projectors and forget monitors. Its awesome!

Please give update on CSR elite.

thanks
 
Koikeeper67
So I just gotta ask how did you get a chance to test the CSR Elite wheel ? And how was it ?
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I applied via the beta program on 911.wheel.org with others.
Do feel very lucky and privledged to be given the oppertunity.

I beleive Beta testers began getting their wheels over a week ago.

Personally I have not been instructed, that photos were not allowed to be taken. However I have been careful to only show things that have already been seen, so I do so with caution. I cannot speak for other beta testers but I believe no date has yet been set for lift of the embargo or release details/reviews.

We will be informed when the time is right.


Mayaman
Latte, check out my finished projector setup dude. Get 3 projectors and forget monitors. Its awesome!

Please give update on CSR elite.

thanks
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Yeah liking your own cockpit "LOTS"
As for the CSR Elite, sorry youll have to wait on that.
Put questions you have in the appropriate thread and myself or other testers will certainly look to cover things in their testing & reports.
 
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Okay ordered another set of RF Glasses and Transmitter, £80.
I guess only one way of finding out if its possible.

It all comes down to being able to have each projector send out the same frequency/signal to the glasses.


Cannot find any reference to people trying multiple projectors/transmitters of this model together in multiscreen configurations. Additionally these are a recent new technology and projector models so that is why. As such only two models are compatible with these new glasses/transmiitter. Optoma's HD33 and the GT750 projectors.

I guess I will become a guinea pig...
 
Mr Latte
Okay ordered another set of RF Glasses and Transmitter, £80.
I guess only one way of finding out if its possible.

It all comes down to being able to have each projector send out the same frequency/signal to the glasses.


Cannot find any reference to people trying multiple projectors/transmitters of this model together in multiscreen configurations. Additionally these are a recent new technology and projector models so that is why. As such only two models are compatible with these new glasses/transmiitter. Optoma's HD33 and the GT750 projectors.

I guess I will become a guinea pig...
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Latte-
Good to see you trying this out! By the way, those RF glasses have a much better chance I think of working since they are not line of site. They are also not exclusive to Optoma. Those are re-branded and made by Bit Cauldron. They also make the same set for Monster, labeled Monster Vision 3D. Also I got a pair with my 3D VIP Theater HDMI 1.4 converter (allows the GT720 or others HDMI 1.3 projectors to work w/ the HDMI 1.4 or side by side/top and bottom 3D sources.)

The trick will be getting all the projectors to sync at the same time. I know with the RF you can pair multiple glasses to one transmitter (as would be the case for family movie time, for example) So in theory, if the opposite is possible, to pair multiple transmitters to the same pair of glasses, then it may just work...
 
More info from the emitter manual (doesn't necessarily say you can pair one set of glasses with multiple emitters, but it may work):

Pairing the BC100 3D Emitter with BC5000 glasses
The emitter may operate an unlimited number of glasses at any given time. However, the emitter may choose to uniquely pair with a maximum of eight glasses.
After placing the BC100 in pairing mode, you will see the red “in‐search‐of‐a‐pair light sequence” heartbeat.
The BC100 will remain in pairing mode for one minute. During that time, multiple glasses may be paired with the BC100. The only indication that pairing is successful will occur at the glasses. When the BC100 cannot pair to any more devices, it will display the “all available pairs already memorized” signal indicated by five red LED’s blinking all‐on and all‐off for ten seconds. The emitter will then return to normal operation. The device must be reset to factory defaults to clear the memorized pair list.
 
Caz
Become???
You are your own lab rat sir! ;)
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LOL okay maybe you have a point :)


Cheers mikemav.

I was aware of the Bit Cauldron tech, having read a pre release interview one time. Was also looking on AVS but no luck finding answers regards multiple transmitters and displays.

They have dispatched this new set so will ask the friend with his PJ to pop around again sometime later in the week for another test at it. If it works great will really be tempted to get additional projectors. If it doesnt well at least I know and wont have to keep wondering.

Im just not sure about the size/space 3x42" screens would take so await getting measurements on approx physical width required.
 
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Latte, maybe I'm missing something here, but is it worth making all these 3D projectors run in 3D? From what I know GT5 is not much better in 3D than in 2D and there are no other games racing games in 3D. Also the contrast is much lover that the one of an LED TV so you have to be completely in the dark to achieve good results. I guess I never was a "projector guy". I would use 3 large 3D TVs instead, since seeing through a 100'' windscreen is not realistic anyway.
 
ilonioum
Latte, maybe I'm missing something here, but is it worth making all these 3D projectors run in 3D? From what I know GT5 is not much better in 3D than in 2D and there are no other games racing games in 3D. Also the contrast is much lover that the one of an LED TV so you have to be completely in the dark to achieve good results. I guess I never was a "projector guy". I would use 3 large 3D TVs instead, since seeing through a 100'' windscreen is not realistic anyway.
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You make good points...
True that few console games will offer 3D and multiscreens. 3D in GT5 is pretty decent with further playtesting, its just not an amazing experience. However does have a nice effect. It would be better of course in triples. GT5 is a pushing factor for me to go with 3x 3D PJ's. I havnt got to enjoy much of GT5 in the last few months having temporary setups so I will get a lot of playing yet from it and experience it on the finished cockpit.

The projector I purchased is exceptional value the 3D is just a bonus at its pricepoint. Even for multiscreens getting a decent 42" HDTV with no lag even without 3D would cost similar but have the borders. Seeing some others doing the 3xPJ option is getting me quite keen to go with that too.

I do not have much time or interest getting back into PC gaming. However the 3x PJs would be Nvidia 3D ready and those can work no problems with glasses. Perhaps R-Factor 2 and C.A.R.S will grab my attention in the future. So Im not planning to do that but having the option in the hardware to experience many games not just racing games in triple 3D might be something I do end up enjoying.

Can you imagine some FPS in triple 3D and with all the tactile/subs in action?
So maybe its a good thing keeping some options open for the future regards the hardware and the GT750 projector is a good price but excellent that it also has 3D option/futureproofing.
 
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ilonioum
Latte, maybe I'm missing something here, but is it worth making all these 3D projectors run in 3D? From what I know GT5 is not much better in 3D than in 2D and there are no other games racing games in 3D. Also the contrast is much lover that the one of an LED TV so you have to be completely in the dark to achieve good results. I guess I never was a "projector guy". I would use 3 large 3D TVs instead, since seeing through a 100'' windscreen is not realistic anyway.
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I would agree to a certain extent. But the key is to make the three projectors as close to the scale of the real thing. I think the sweet spot is to have between 42" and 50" projected images. Check my thread to see what no bezels looks like. Its 100% more immersive than having three separate LCDs.

I am going to try 3D this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes. From what I understand, as long as the projectors are running from one graphics card you only need one emmiter. 3D add a ton, especially if done well.
 
Mayaman
I would agree to a certain extent. But the key is to make the three projectors as close to the scale of the real thing. I think the sweet spot is to have between 42" and 50" projected images. Check my thread to see what no bezels looks like. Its 100% more immersive than having three separate LCDs.

I am going to try 3D this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes. From what I understand, as long as the projectors are running from one graphics card you only need one emmiter. 3D add a ton, especially if done well.
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There are 2 reasons I would go Projector vs TV - 1. No borders, 2. No latency TV has.

However when I compare the real driving with a sim i realize that I only see the hood of the car when I drive and not the side mirrors or the windows. So using Kinect or Move would bring it closer to real without having 3ple screens.

I guess tactile is much more important for me than multiple screens but hey, I might change my mind :)
 
ilonioum
There are 2 reasons I would go Projector vs TV - 1. No borders, 2. No latency TV has.

However when I compare the real driving with a sim i realize that I only see the hood of the car when I drive and not the side mirrors or the windows. So using Kinect or Move would bring it closer to real without having 3ple screens.

I guess tactile is much more important for me than multiple screens but hey, I might change my mind :)
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Negative my friend and I'll tell you why. Today, out of curiosity I got in my car and tested the "view" as opposed to my real life driving position. And I have to say, other than a few inches in difference, the experience is spot on.

When in my car I have to turn my head to the right about 30 degree to look at my passenger mirror. In my simulator, I had to move almost the same exact distance. Same goes for the drive side mirror.

I think you're confusing that large screen as something you see in its entirety. You do not. You see exactly what you would see while sitting in a real car, thats the entire point about having three screens. I can see my flanks in the peripheral vision and it looks stunningly real. Especially once you're been driving for ten minutes.

So the point I'm trying to make is, when you're sitting in the triple simulator at this size, what you see directly in front of you, is almost exactly what I see in my simulator. Its why I chose this size screens and ratio. I did my research.

In fact, my first couple of laps were so convincing that I got a little motion sick until I got accustomed to my peripheral vision. My ear said I was stationary, but my eyes kept saying "you're moving"

I can't explain it any better. Kinect definitely doesn't do the same thing, I tried both. Kinect is definitely welcome for sure and I was waiting for it, but the triple screens is much more immersive.
 
I think with monitors around 24" they are okay if real close but still do not have enough height to give the full realistic scale.

The screen size is going to be a personal taste thing but for me the important factor is not just about the scale but having the FOV replicate the real experience. Bigger screens will help but then need to be at a different distance. With projectors though you can always play around with the size you want before deciding on what size you end up going with.

I found using Kinect with multiscreens it can add to the experience. It takes a bit of getting used to but again the real experience in a car if you look to the left your then going to see additional FOV to the left as you pan your head. Kinect does this but 3x fixed screens will only give you a static cockpit experience.

Well worth a try if your going 3 screens and want the ulitimate experience from the game.
 
Yes Latte, thats my point. The measurements of my cockpit are pretty much, not exactly, but really close to being to scale. you could get closer but for what I wanted its pretty bang on.

And if you look closely at my pic, you can see the reflection of my kinect above the screens. ;)

I'm using Kinect with this setup. But to be honest, its more disorienting that helpful. You see, while you're in a real car, your head is moving just like in this simulator. You already have the field of view. You don't need kinect since it is moving a head that doesn't need to because of your field of view. Hope that makes sense.
 
It does make sense. Im with you on having multiscreens operate in a comfortable way that with a glance you can look in your mirrors on the outer screens. I prefer that than being too close and having to turn my head to look into those mirrors.

However in real life if you do turn your head your view changes. Ive got to like the Kinect and while I dont turn my head a lot its great to look alongside some cars or if your in a big powerslide and are looking out the outer screen. I wish it allowed free movement or "free look" as an option and think it would feel more natural.

Try a Cobra to see what you think.
 
When I turn my head in the rig my view changes as well. I don't quite understand. If I need to look in my right rear view mirror I look right, just like when I'm driving my car. Its not exactly 1:1, but its damn close. A quick glance over and I'm looking at the mirror.

The rear view mirror is even closer to being true to real life. I just shift my eyes slightly upward and right.

I mean I know the kinect is great, and I've had it since launch, but in a triple screen display I'm finding that its more distracting than anything because I don't need it, my real head does the looking since my FOV is not limited. The kinect is implemented in the game becuase with one screen your FOV is limited.

But if you like it thats all that counts. :)
 
I'm with you mayaman.
It's either 3 screen or head tracking not both.

Given the choice 3 screen all the way for me. Just my opinion. Not telling anyone how to play there games.
 
Spagetti69
I'm with you mayaman.
It's either 3 screen or head tracking not both.

Given the choice 3 screen all the way for me. Just my opinion. Not telling anyone how to play there games.
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Indeed each to their own preference. 👍

I understand what he is saying, he can fully see his mirrors by glancing.
However when he turns his head in a real car to the left or right, what will he see. More in that direction and less in the other. A real cockpits FOV position doesnt stay static/fixed like triple monitors.

So with multiscreens and headtracking yes by all means you can still look out the corner of your eye and still see the mirrors. Yet if you turn your head, then youd see more in that direction as expected.

I find it has situations were the extra approx 30% left-right with head tracking can be useful. Looking past the "A Pillar" in some corners at a tight Apex is one or cars alongside you can be detected or seen a little earlier.

If Im not in the mood or it wears off then well it can always be turned off...
 
Hmmmm, not quite understanding then because the triple monitors and a real windshield are both static. The experience of looking left or right is exactly the same in both. You sit in a stationary seat in a vehicle and a sim rig. With the triple monitors the experience is pretty much the same as a real car.

I think I know what you are talking about though, and you're talking about YAW right or left to look "AROUND" the A pillar. Yes, this is one thing that the Kinect will provide that is not possible with triple screen. And yeah, I liked it but to be honest when I'm auto-crossing in real life or tossing about my own Porsche I don't usually Yaw much.

But I think thats what you're talking about. 👍
 
Look out your side window you see more out your side window than you do when looking forward. Its really just replicatiing that.

Yeah its not for everyone and some may get motion sickness from it too.
I like it from a technical viewpoint that they managed to add it in.

3D to some is a gimmick, to me its an option and enjoyable experience but like this headtracking maybe not something I will want all the time. Yet I want the option to be available, lol.
 
Mr Latte
Look out your side window you see more out your side window than you do when looking forward. Its really just replicatiing that.

Yeah its not for everyone and some may get motion sickness from it too.
I like it from a technical viewpoint that they managed to add it in.

3D to some is a gimmick, to me its an option and enjoyable experience but like this headtracking maybe not something I will want all the time. Yet I want the option to be available, lol.
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Can the level of the Kinect effect be set to lower? I have not had a chance to try it yet but I plan to; are there adjustments to turn the effect down to low (which might be more suitable to a triple screen rig?)

I have TrackIR for my PC and plan to use it (though on a limited/dampened setting) when I get triple screen 3DVision Surround running full time. Like you said, can always be turned off if I grow tired of it.
 
Yes you can turn down the Kinect head tracking. I totally understand what Latte is saying. All I'm saying is that until you sit in front of the triple monitors, especially when they are of this size, it mimics being in a car very closely.

And yes, you are also right, you cannot get yaw with a triple monitor rig. Yaw is definitely important in certain situations for sure. I'm trying to find a setting where the kinect isn't so sensitive. I have to play around with it.
 
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