PS4K - Revealed Alongside PS4 Slim as PS4 Pro - General DiscussionPS4

[Tornado]

Yeah, wait another month or maybe two. Xbone S will certainly be down to $250 as the Christmas season lights up, and Sony will probably match it with the Slim. There might also be hard drive model revisions between now and then.

 

[Lain]

Well now... I don't have a 4K TV, I'm not particularly interested in this UHD Blu-Ray stuff, I'm entertaining the idea of getting a PS4, so I ask you kind people in your infinite wisdom, should I even bother getting this and jump ship to Microsoft?

If you're not interested in 4K, I'd say just go with the base system of whichever platform has the games you want to play.

Of course, wait until the PS4 Pro or Scorpio are released so that you can potentially nab an old system on sale or used for cheap. But the Scorpio isn't coming out until much later, so the PS4 might be the more appealing option if you're impatient.

 

[Peasantslayer]

I don't think so.

The PS4 Pro struggles to render a full 4K, instead resorting to slightly lower resolutions and/or special rendering techniques to achieve 4K output. The Scorpio, conversely, could get closer to rendering games at 4K proper.

So basically at the top end of things, the Scorpio will be modestly superior to the PS4 Pro... just like how on the low end of things, the PS4 is modestly superior to the Xbox One and more consistently achieves a full 1080p whereas the One often resorts to 900p.

So TL;DR: The Scorpio is still trying to push games at 4K... which means 4x the pixels, with less than 4x the power of the Xbox One. Virtually all games should be able to be pared back to 1080p or lower to run on the Xbox One.

I think they'll look pretty similar at 4K but they'll be limited by their CPU meaning that just like the Pro the Scorpio will struggle to hit 60fps.

 

[Lain]

I think they'll look pretty similar at 4K but they'll be limited by their CPU meaning that just like the Pro the Scorpio will struggle to hit 60fps.

Yeah. My post makes it sound like I think the Scorpio will be doing full 4K, but I was just trying to illustrate the point that the Scorpio will just be doing slightly better job at providing a "4K" experience.

But certainly, both the PS4 Pro and Scorpio will struggle to provide a true 4K experience, let alone at 60 FPS.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

They have? I'm unaware. Is it as drastic as adding completely new components that where not there at all like the case of the UHD you're making?

Phones are a totally different market, and I'm sure many would prefer that consoles not take that route, as that would be ridiculous. Kind of a bad example to compare it to. I think this market is more akin to TV's. You can rely on one for quite a bit of time with out the need to upgrade.


Whats the benefits of the slim over the older version right now? It seems none, as they're removing the UHD, no? Seems like kind of a waste right now if you already own the older.


The Pro seems like the most logical step if anyone was going to jump in, or upgrade. It makes the Slim rather pointless, in my opinion.

The Slim is biggest change from the original. Much lower power consumption, less weight and size. Upgrade to USB ports and WiFi. Not sure about HDMI yet but if it is 2.0, it should allow better media playback options.

You can rely on consoles for quite a bit of time especially for gaming functionality so don't think people will be too disheartened if there is a new model a year later that offers no change in gaming performance but just an upgraded Blu-ray player in a more compact size. I think there is a chance next-generation will last really long if released in 2018 with maybe one upgrade in 2021. Getting to stage where new materials likely be needed for any large advancements, hard to know when that might be if possible and how costly it's going to be.

There is a point to Slim as it covers the lower prices which keeps them competitive. It's something that they should be able to make cheaper still with 10nm and 7nm (Maybe a Super Slim then if it's still popular enough) so then be able to battle well against the likes of NX and Shield TV box in terms of pricing later in console life cycle.

Aren't these HDR 4k TVs riddled with high input lag? , the price is very reasonable though, people were throwing 4000 dollars at Gaf yesterday for a decent one.

The one I linked to is only 33ms. I recently replaced living room TV last week with one that is 25ms, the old 1080p one was only 22ms so not much more lag. My bedroom TV is only 14-15ms so I will wait until 2017 Sony TVs which hopefully have faster processing power before upgrading. Pre-ordered the Pro yesterday just in case it sells out for Christmas. Liking the look of the new Spider-Man game, wonder when that will release.

I think they'll look pretty similar at 4K but they'll be limited by their CPU meaning that just like the Pro the Scorpio will struggle to hit 60fps.

PS4 Pro is more balanced like Penello might say. The best thing about Pro I think is pushing 1080p experience, it will be interesting to see if Microsoft do the same or just have 4K downsampled to 1080p mainly.

 

[Robin]

Just realised another thing which kind of got over looked by the shock that it doesn't have a UHD drive. The PS4 Pro has no PS3 disk based backwards compatibility. I had been hoping for that but it looks like Sony are still sticking with the stupid PS Now service which streams games in poor quality that you have to buy again!

So it's yet another feather in Microsoft's cap. The XB One despite being half the power of the PS4 Pro has a healthy list of compatible 360 games which keeps growing and will probably get even larger when Scorpio drops. Sony must have really got complacent with the lead they have in this generation to make such odd decisions.

 

[Lain]

When Microsoft initially announced the Xbox One's name, everyone thought it was stupid... but branding-wise they're poised really nicely here for the future of blurred console generations.

Eventually the Xbox One platform could have full 360 and possibly even OG Xbox backwards compatibility. How cool would that be? If it's an Xbox game, Xbox One can play it. Period.

We're in the age of diminishing returns as far as what additional computational horsepower can do for gaming, and there's very few gaming experiences that couldn't just have their graphics nerfed to run on current gen consoles. Heck, most games could probably take an arrow to the graphics and run on last gen hardware just fine if developers felt like making those ports.

In the rare instances that a gameplay experience does fundamentally require more power, well... Cloud computing is a thing. I'm not a fan of it, but if a game truly does require the Scorpio or PS4 Pro's power, would people really complain if it were also playable on the original PS4/XB1 but required an internet connection on those for cloud computing to make up the performance difference? Seems like a reasonable compromise to me. (Who am I kidding? This is the internet... people complain about everything.)

 

[sems4arsenal]

Well now... I don't have a 4K TV, I'm not particularly interested in this UHD Blu-Ray stuff, I'm entertaining the idea of getting a PS4, so I ask you kind people in your infinite wisdom, should I even bother getting this and jump ship to Microsoft?

Get a PS4 Slim then or and Xbox one Slim. Unless you have a PC then there is no reason to get an Xbox.

I'd wait for the NX and see what it can do as well. Man how many different SKUs of consoles will be out there by the Holidays

 

[Lain]

Yuck... according to an interview with SIE executive Masayasu Ito, some third party publishers might charge money for their forward compatibility patches.

The sheer audacity of the idea that companies might try to charge money to allow their games to utilize the upgraded performance of your PS4 Pro is simply astounding. Imagine if you bought a shiny new GTX 1080 to replace your old graphics card... but wait! Your games won't utilize its extra power unless you pay the developers a small fee!

 

[Samus]

Well that is just......poor.

Game Impress Watch: For the 4K HDR patch for existing titles, will it cost money? Or will it be free?

Ito: It will be different for each title. I believe it will depend on the thinking of each licensee.

Game Impress Watch: What about Sony Interactive Entertainment?

Ito: I think it will vary for each one of our titles.

Game Impress Watch: What you’re saying is that there will be titles that have a fee [for the patch] and [patches for the] titles that are free.

Ito: That is correct.

Game Watch Impress: From here on out, we can think that all the titles from SIE will completely support PS4 Pro?

Ito: Right. The first party titles we put out are going to certainly support both [4K and HDR].

 

[NLxAROSA]

If they're going to introduce forward compatibility as paid DLC for new games, then **** that. But for previously released titles that weren't built to take advantage of the PS4 Pro's features? Gray area IMO. But it sounds more and more that they shouldn't have called this a PS4.

 

[Jawehawk]

Aren't these HDR 4k TVs riddled with high input lag? , the price is very reasonable though, people were throwing 4000 dollars at Gaf yesterday for a decent one.

All the good ones cost a lot. The cheap ones are cheap for a reason. HDR is still relatively new, and my impression based on sites such as CNET, is that most HDR capable tv's are mediocre or outright awful.

 

[Lain]

If they're going to introduce forward compatibility as paid DLC for new games, then **** that. But for previously released titles that weren't built to take advantage of the PS4 Pro's features? Gray area IMO. But it sounds more and more that they shouldn't have called this a PS4.

The question was regarding existing titles.

But yeah, sorry... I don't think it's a gray area at all. Obviously making a forward compatibility patch takes a little time and effort. But so do all patches. It'd be like if GT Sport launched with performance that hovered in the 40-50 FPS range on the base PS4, then PD tried to charge money for a patch that improved the performance to a rock solid 60 FPS.

Charging money for a performance patch is asinine.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Except that's not the same at all, we're talking a different hardware/console here, even though it's called PS4. We've already had things like HD-versions of Uncharted, etc., so that would be pretty much the same thing from developer perspective. I think we'll see more of that. But don't get me wrong, I think it's a horrible way forward. It's a sliding slope.

It will be interesting to see how Microsoft will approach this. I doubt it will be the same, especially since their first party games are going to be made to scale up/down from the ground up because of Windows support.

 

[Lain]

It's the same architecture, and almost certainly the same OS. It's about as different as a PC with a GTX 970 is from a PC with a GTX 960.

 

[Soundtrack]

It's the same architecture, and almost certainly the same OS. It's about as different as a PC with a GTX 970 is from a PC with a GTX 960.

Not that having yet another generation of Remasters is a particularly appealing prospect, but wouldn’t high dynamic range require some adjustments over textures lightning and/or grading? Or can game developers deliver for the “extended output” platform with the switch of a button?

 

[Lain]

https://developer.nvidia.com/implementing-hdr-rise-tomb-raider

Not literally the press of a button, but in the grand scheme of game development and support, it sounds like a relatively minor effort.

EDIT: Sony has clarified the foward compatibility update tax kerfuffle: “We will not charge consumers for patches,” a Sony representative said in an e-mail to Kotaku today.

 

[RacingOtaku86]

Get a PS4 Slim then or and Xbox one Slim. Unless you have a PC then there is no reason to get an Xbox.

I'd wait for the NX and see what it can do as well. Man how many different SKUs of consoles will be out there by the Holidays

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm in absolutely no hurry to get a higher definition TV nor am I freaking out that the system doesn't have a UHD Blu-Ray drive (like many people are doing either here or on the PlayStation Blog). Besides, I'm more familiar to Sony systems than Microsoft; I'm not a fanboy, but it's been that way for me. The extra horsepower can be good, but I just fear that it'll be used with less than full capability.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm in absolutely no hurry to get a higher definition TV nor am I freaking out that the system doesn't have a UHD Blu-Ray drive (like many people are doing either here or on the PlayStation Blog). Besides, I'm more familiar to Sony systems than Microsoft; I'm not a fanboy, but it's been that way for me. The extra horsepower can be good, but I just fear that it'll be used with less than full capability.

You're not though, I probably won't get a 4k TV for atleast 3 more years, heck I can barely afford a big HDTV as it is, as if I'm spending car money on a TV

 

[Peasantslayer]

They should have released the Pro with a more powerful CPU next year, by then people will be more likely to have decent 4K TVs. I imagine PSVR sales will be hurt by the Pro releasing at a similar time as well unless they can bundle them together and cut the price a fair bit.

 

[Robin]

They should have released the Pro with a more powerful CPU next year, by then people will be more likely to have decent 4K TVs. I imagine PSVR sales will be hurt by the Pro releasing at a similar time as well unless they can bundle them together and cut the price a fair bit.

The Pro was designed to help not hinder PSVR, apparently the performance of PSVR on the normal PS4 is not great because it just doesn't have the power to do it justice. They timed both releases so that people will buy them together for Christmas. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is a Pro+VR bundle coming.

 

[RacingOtaku86]

Now that I think about it, the Pro sounds like a better choice for the reason I'll be future proofing myself. If I decide to get a 4K TV, I'll be ready for it.

 

[Jawehawk]

The Pro was designed to help not hinder PSVR, apparently the performance of PSVR on the normal PS4 is not great because it just doesn't have the power to do it justice. They timed both releases so that people will buy them together for Christmas. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is a Pro+VR bundle coming.

Which means that PS VR is effectively doomed. The two biggest factors that were going to help bring it succes, low cost and an already huge install base of 40 million people, is gone, if the regular PS4 can't run it properly.

 

[mister dog]

The Pro was designed to help not hinder PSVR, apparently the performance of PSVR on the normal PS4 is not great because it just doesn't have the power to do it justice. They timed both releases so that people will buy them together for Christmas. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is a Pro+VR bundle coming.

Wat a great scheme no, selling 40 million 'new' but under powered consoles because most people don't have a clue about the internals anyway, then release an upgraded version and market VR to shift a couple of million sales again 3 years later.

IMO it's the consumers own fault for not realizing this and buying the new goodies regardless. And they will pull it off in some extend. Same with MS.

 

[MeanElf]

...IMO it's the consumers own fault for not realizing this and buying the new goodies regardless. And they will pull it off in some extend. Same with MS.

PS4 came out almost three years ago - the PSVR launch was only confirmed recently, before that the launch time was still speculation. Did you expect people to just not play games for three years?

 

[mister dog]

PS4 came out almost three years ago - the PSVR launch was only confirmed recently, before that the launch time was still speculation. Did you expect people to just not play games for three years?

I expect nothing of people. What i'm saying is that it would have been good if people had informed themselves better once the PS4 launched 3 years ago. It was already known then that it would struggle with the specs it had.

Now of course there's no saying you won't be playing games on the regular PS4 for some years to come, but i see that becoming difficult for many when the newest games will only be running good on the 'pro' by that time.

But that's a critique on both Sony and MS. The regular Xbone seems even worse spec wise.

 

[MeanElf]

I expect nothing of people. What i'm saying is that it would have been good if people had informed themselves better once the PS4 launched 3 years ago. It was already known then that it would struggle with the specs it had.

Now of course there's no saying you won't be playing games on the regular PS4 for some years to come, but i see that becoming difficult for many when the newest games will only be running good on the 'pro' by that time.

But that's a critique on both Sony and MS. The regular Xbone seems even worse spec wise.

Driveclub VR apparently has excited all of those who have played on it so far and that was on the PS4 not the Pro.

 

[mister dog]

Driveclub VR apparently has excited all of those who have played on it so far and that was on the PS4 not the Pro.

Not sure if that proves how future proof the standard PS4 will remain. Did they scale down DC a lot to be able to support it or is the game running the same as before?

 

[MeanElf]

Not sure if that proves how future proof the standard PS4 will remain. Did they scale down DC a lot to be able to support it or is the game running the same as before?

It has lost its dynamic weather and some small level of background detail I think le when racing- but for the latter that will hardly be noticeable when racing.

My point is that it's all speculation until the games start arriving post VR headset launch, but as DCVR has been tried out, it indicates that the PS4 might be better at handling the job than people are assuming.

 

[Scaff]

It has lost its dynamic weather and some small level of background detail I think le when racing- but for the latter that will hardly be noticeable when racing.

My point is that it's all speculation until the games start arriving post VR headset launch, but as DCVR has been tried out, it indicates that the PS4 might be better at handling the job than people are assuming.

Size of the field has reduced down as well, from 12 to 8 if I remember correctly.