R.I.P. Lik-Sang !!! Sony warns against grey importing (PS3)

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I find this funny.

Lik Sang
Furthermore, Sony have failed to disclose to the London High Court that not only the world wide gaming community in more than 100 countries relied on Lik-Sang for their gaming needs, but also Sony Europe's very own top directors repeatedly got their Sony PSP hard or software imports in nicely packed Lik-Sang parcels with free Lik-Sang Mugs or Lik-Sang Badge Holders, starting just two days after Japan's official release, as early as 14th of December 2004 (more than nine months earlier than the legal action). The list of PSP related Sony Europe orders reads like the who's who of the videogames industry, and includes Ray Maguire (Managing Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Alan Duncan (UK Marketing Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Chris Sorrell (Creative Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Rob Parkin (Development Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited), just to name a few.

I also find it funny that the PS3 is region-free yet Sony is cracking down on importers.

👎
 
Lik-Sang is no more.:scared:

Click here for the full story.

wtf... you know I'm really a big fan of Japanese companies, but this is just rediculous... I mean, modchips are one thing, I don't blame Sony to strike hard against them, but imports ? I can import cars, electronic devices of any kind, even drugs ( talking about medical drugs ) etc, but no videogames ?
It's sad indeed. Let'S hope that Liksang is the exception...
 
Quoted from their news page:

"Important Notice: Lik-Sang.com Out of Business due to Multiple Sony Lawsuits
Tue Oct 24 2006 21:58:51 Hong Kong Time - Corporate Info

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - OUT OF BUSINESS NOTICE

Hong Kong, October 24th of 2006 - Lik-Sang.com, the popular gaming retailer from Hong Kong, has today announced that it is forced to close down due to multiple legal actions brought against it by Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited and Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Sony claimed that Lik-Sang infringed its trade marks, copyright and registered design rights by selling Sony PSP consoles from Asia to European customers, and have recently obtained a judgment in the High Court of London (England) rendering Lik-Sang's sales of PSP consoles unlawful.

As of today, Lik-Sang.com will not be in the position to accept any new orders and will cancel and refund all existing orders that have already been placed. Furthermore, Lik-Sang is working closely with banks and PayPal to refund any store credits held by the company, and the customer support department is taking care of any open transactions such as pending RMAs or repairs and shipping related matters. The staff of Lik-Sang will make sure that nobody will get hurt in the crossfire of this ordeal.

A Sony spokesperson declined to comment directly on the lawsuit against Lik-Sang, but recently went on to tell Gamesindustry.biz that "ultimately, we're trying to protect consumers from being sold hardware that does not conform to strict EU or UK consumer safety standards, due to voltage supply differences et cetera; is not - in PS3's case - backwards compatible with either PS1 or PS2 software; will not play European Blu-Ray movies or DVDs; and will not be covered by warranty".

Lik Sang strongly disagrees with Sony's opinion that their customers need this kind of protection and pointed out that PSP consoles shipped from Lik-Sang contained genuine Sony 100V-240V AC Adapters that carry CE and other safety marks and are compatible world wide. All PSP consoles were in conformity with all EU and UK consumer safety regulations.

Furthermore, Sony have failed to disclose to the London High Court that not only the world wide gaming community in more than 100 countries relied on Lik-Sang for their gaming needs, but also Sony Europe's very own top directors repeatedly got their Sony PSP hard or software imports in nicely packed Lik-Sang parcels with free Lik-Sang Mugs or Lik-Sang Badge Holders, starting just two days after Japan's official release, as early as 14th of December 2004 (more than nine months earlier than the legal action). The list of PSP related Sony Europe orders reads like the who's who of the videogames industry, and includes Ray Maguire (Managing Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Alan Duncan (UK Marketing Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Chris Sorrell (Creative Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Rob Parkin (Development Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited), just to name a few.

"Today is Sony Europe victory about PSP, tomorrow is Sony Europe’s ongoing pressure about PlayStation 3. With this precedent set, next week could already be the stage for complaints from Sony America about the same thing, or from other console manufacturers about other consoles to other regions, or even from any publisher about any specific software title to any country they don’t see fit. It’s the beginning of the end... of the World as we know it", stated Pascal Clarysse, formerly known as the Marketing Manager of Lik-Sang.com.

"Blame it on Sony. That's the latest dark spot in their shameful track record as gaming industry leader. The Empire finally 'won', few dominating retailers from the UK probably will rejoice the news, but everybody else in the gaming world lost something today.""


Sad news as I know many people who had free pre-ordered consoles ready to go. No good news can come of it, no reason for it imo.....*sigh* What do you think???

jump_ace
 
I think the only way I can express it is this:

:eek:

Why do they have to close the whole place down? Couldn't they keep importing non-Sony products at least?

C'mon Sony, that's not cool.
 
While I love Lik-Sang, I cannot defend it. It was selling Sony products on the grey-market not authorized by Sony itself.
 
Lik-Sang is no more.:scared:
Disappointing news. Despite my preference for Play Asia, having two major players in the market encouraged healthy competition. PA has recently closed their pre-orders on PS3, and it will be most interesting to see if they choose to ship to customers in the EU.
 
/\ Good point, but is Sony going to go after Gameshark because its a grey area to allow swap disc'ing. And same as lik-sang, they are helping to increase market share to the imo always short-changed (and Sony's only to blame i.e. ps3) European market, just like there is a market for people who enjoy cheat codes, but should game shark go down too for example? Why stop there, what about the grey ebay market? What do you think?

jump_ace
 
/\ Good point, but is Sony going to go after Gameshark because its a grey area to allow swap disc'ing. And same as lik-sang, they are helping to increase market share to the imo always short-changed (and Sony's only to blame i.e. ps3) European market, just like there is a market for people who enjoy cheat codes, but should game shark go down too for example? Why stop there, what about the grey ebay market? What do you think?

jump_ace

I think you're making a case to shut all these businesses down, not to keep Lik-sang open.
 
Oh no I don't want to shut them down, just saying that Sony may have shot themselves in the foot and its a sad in for gamers worldwide :nervous:

jump_ace
 
Disappointing news. Despite my preference for Play Asia, having two major players in the market encouraged healthy competition. PA has recently closed their pre-orders on PS3, and it will be most interesting to see if they choose to ship to customers in the EU.

My hope is that after the worldwide release next March things will calm down a bit. So I wouldn't recommend Playasia to ship the PS3's before that tbh....
 
This is only half the truth unfortunately. Games can still have a region code lock, it's up the publishers. Just like with the Xbox360....
They can still region lock it, even when the consoles themselves don't support it?

As for the discussion at hand, I'm with you. I must admit, I see where Sony is coming from. No, I'm not talking about Japanese electronics burning down peoples' homes. I've used countless Japanese domestic electronics where I live, since I was a kid. Not one issue. But Sony definitely have the legal right to stop gray importing. They are licensed products, afterall.

I disagree with them, because I think Sony's legal right conflict with my right. Since I'm from Japan, I used to run into this problem, all the time. I've gotten electronics from Japan, but I would use them in the States. CDs, VHSs(like I said, when I was kid :D), no problems. But when it came to gaming machines excluding gameboy games, I couldn't get any new games for them. So, I did rely on some gray importing to get additional games. And it's not like Nintendo had a program to buy back my Super Famicom and games and replace them with the SNES version. Some games were in Japanese, and I couldn't even understand English back then.

So basically, I'm going to say, "hey, Sony has every right", while I will stab them in the back the first chance I get. :sly:
 
They can still region lock it, even when the consoles themselves don't support it?

As for the discussion at hand, I'm with you. I must admit, I see where Sony is coming from. No, I'm not talking about Japanese electronics burning down peoples' homes. I've used countless Japanese domestic electronics where I live, since I was a kid. Not one issue. But Sony definitely have the legal right to stop gray importing. They are licensed products, afterall.

I disagree with them, because I think Sony's legal right conflict with my right. Since I'm from Japan, I used to run into this problem, all the time. I've gotten electronics from Japan, but I would use them in the States. CDs, VHSs(like I said, when I was kid :D), no problems. But when it came to gaming machines excluding gameboy games, I couldn't get any new games for them. So, I did rely on some gray importing to get additional games. And it's not like Nintendo had a program to buy back my Super Famicom and games and replace them with the SNES version. Some games were in Japanese, and I couldn't even understand English back then.

So basically, I'm going to say, "hey, Sony has every right", while I will stab them in the back the first chance I get. :sly:

Just like they do it with Xbox360. There are region code free games that will run on any console and games with region code lock. The Xbox360 has no region code lock for games so to say.

From a business perspective I can also understand Sony. Having everything under control surely is a fine thing.
However,I don't see a true legal base for all this...why ? Well, we are not in communism right? I can buy whatever I want where I want aslong as I don't violate certain rules ( like with importing food or weapons ). So I am allowed to buy "for Japan only" stuff in Japan and bring it back home. If Sony likes that or not. Lik Sang did offer Japanese consoles and games, if they were meant for export or not, who cares? All trouble involved with these imports are the problem of ME, the customer. I can't read the manual? I don't have 2 year warrenty ( German law) ? I burn my house because of the stepdownconvertor ;) ? I can't run German games ? Liksang warns every customer and that's it.

Grey imports, oh well... I mean I pay tax for that import, so my government is happy with it. I don't think that Sony can ultimately win this legal battle. They can however ruin rather small companies with lawsuits, since Sony has indefinte funds compared to them. Sony will always find some 60 year old judge without a proper global-market-knowledge.

The sad thing is that I see no possibility for me to punish Sony... boycott PS3 ? Yeah, sure... ;) I'm like that wife who gets beaten up by her husband all the time and who just doesn't leave him ... well, maybe apart from the fact, that Sony doesn't pretend to stop any time soon :lol: :crazy:

As I said before, let's hope that this is just a try to avoid grey imports before Sony releases the PS3 in Europe and that after April everything will be "normal" again...
Also with Liksang... personally I think, that this is just some sort of legal trick and that they will reopen under a new name in the near future...
 
http://www.ps3land.com/article-912.php

PS3Land
Sony: "We didn't shut Lik-Sang down"
by Dusty Stokes

In response to a press announcement made earlier today by Lik-Sang, Sony has made an announcement of their own, countering the notion that they are responsible for the closing the online retailer.

According to Sony, Lik-Sang didn't show at court and has yet to suffer any legal costs. However, Sony did make it clear that they have won substantial costs that have yet to be paid, and they are quick to note that they have no hand in the closing of the online store.

This whole situation is reminiscent of a past incident that Lik-Sang was involved in. In 2002, there was pressure from Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft over the sales of illegal "Mod" chips.

Sony has also responded to the list of SCEE executives, released by Lik-Sang, who had allegedly bought imported PSPs from the site. Sony stated that the list of Sony execs that are claimed to have imported PSP's should never have been released, as it is an infringement on "data protection principles across the world."

Be sure to check back for more updates on this dispute.
:odd:
 
So, by not suffering any legal costs does that mean that they didn't suffer of any of Sony's legal costs, because the case wasn't over yet? Because that was the same reason Sony was absolved of sueing Bleem! into obscurity.
And the second part I love: "How dare you say that! It makes us hypocrites!" :sly:
 
Yeah, we didn't shut Lik-Sang down is a BS. Sure they did. They just did it indirectly.

Also on Ducks' article, I do agree with Sony regarding the release of information about the executives. Poor ethics, IMO. If that happened to me, I would be upset.


I'm like that wife who gets beaten up by her husband all the time and who just doesn't leave him ... well, maybe apart from the fact, that Sony doesn't pretend to stop any time soon[/B] :lol: :crazy:

That's messed up, Max ... but pretty funny. :lol:
 
They can still region lock it, even when the consoles themselves don't support it?

As for the discussion at hand, I'm with you. I must admit, I see where Sony is coming from. No, I'm not talking about Japanese electronics burning down peoples' homes. I've used countless Japanese domestic electronics where I live, since I was a kid. Not one issue. But Sony definitely have the legal right to stop gray importing. They are licensed products, afterall.

I disagree with them, because I think Sony's legal right conflict with my right. Since I'm from Japan, I used to run into this problem, all the time. I've gotten electronics from Japan, but I would use them in the States. CDs, VHSs(like I said, when I was kid :D), no problems. But when it came to gaming machines excluding gameboy games, I couldn't get any new games for them. So, I did rely on some gray importing to get additional games. And it's not like Nintendo had a program to buy back my Super Famicom and games and replace them with the SNES version. Some games were in Japanese, and I couldn't even understand English back then.

So basically, I'm going to say, "hey, Sony has every right", while I will stab them in the back the first chance I get. :sly:

Yep, Sony do have right on their side. However they do not have to exercise it. What I dislike so much is how disingenuous Sony are, claiming again and again that stopping non-EU/UK electronics was for our protection. Complete BS.
As for Lik-Sang they shouldn't have released the details of its customers. Naughty. However Sony's rebuff that it was for "inspection" is BS too. Sony are simply uninterested in fostering a gamer-friendly face. That's obviously low on their list.
Where importing region free games comes in is another question. Are Sony trying to stop their import too?
And yes, I do think Lik-Sang will re-appear under a new name. Unfortunately I'm looking for somewhere to get FFXII on import!
 
lol, Sony Europe directors import their PSPs from Lik-sang yet sue them for giving this service to the public.

slackbladder, are you looking for the American FFXII release?
 
You all do realize that Sony does this to maintain a profit, because before they are your friend, they are in fact a BUSINESS. Profit is the name of the game, and if you jack holes were running a business, you wouldn't be all peaches and cream about loosing money, it wouldn't be all flowers and big eye'd birds when the fat lady started singing and you were losing money.

Seriously, you guy's have no clue at all do you? You think that importing is just a fad that has no effect on a business, this hurts them a lot, esp stocks and sales margins...freakin n00bs.
 
Profit is the name of the game, and if you jack holes were running a business, you wouldn't be all peaches and cream about loosing money, it wouldn't be all flowers and big eye'd birds when the fat lady started singing and you were losing money.
Seriously, you guy's have no clue at all do you? You think that importing is just a fad that has no effect on a business, this hurts them a lot, esp stocks and sales margins...freakin n00bs.
Sure, importing is bad and all. Especially when it happens to Sony. :rolleyes:
I'd really love to see the proof that you seem to have that tells of how much money Sony loses on each console that is imported; because you seem to be implying that when you import consoles, not only does it kill puppies and makes you a Nazi; but it also prevents Sony from getting any money like they stole the console when they imported it, which is just bull.
Yes, I will admit it can hurt a videogame company. But to believe Sony's press release regarding the matter to such a letter is rediculous. I mean come on, if it is such a horrible thing to do why hasn't anyone tried to prevent it before? It's hurt a few companies a whole hell of a lot more than it will ever hurt Sony (Nintendo and Sega spring to mind), yet Sony seems to think it is in their best interests to blocade it.
 
You all do realize that Sony does this to maintain a profit, because before they are your friend, they are in fact a BUSINESS. Profit is the name of the game, and if you jack holes were running a business, you wouldn't be all peaches and cream about loosing money, it wouldn't be all flowers and big eye'd birds when the fat lady started singing and you were losing money.

Seriously, you guy's have no clue at all do you? You think that importing is just a fad that has no effect on a business, this hurts them a lot, esp stocks and sales margins...freakin n00bs.
I understand that, and agree with most of your post, except for the "hurts them a lot" part. I see it as "Sony getting annoyed by a company who's getting a free ride off of their product".

What's with the name calling? :dopey:
 
It hurts them beyond profits, it hurts them in quarterly projections, stocks, and market share for certain regions.

Sure, you're probably saying "well it couldn't have hurt that bad, look at PS2". PS2 sold enough to more than eliminate all the fautls of importing. HOwever, the PSP has not, and does not, and that is very evident, as Sony continued to lose money over imports and items sitting on shelves due to it being region free. Fact is, it's against the law, and it doesn't coincide with the best wishes of Sony.


Also, I love how everyone ignores that both Microsoft and Nintendo also delt blows that compiled to a nice chunk of change, and also contributed to this ultimate outcome. Lik-Sang was already a rock in a hard place, and this was simply icing on the cake, theyd' broken lots of laws before, and this was just the last straw, but they felt the need to publicly address sony (and break the law once again in the process, violating users digital privacy rights).
 
Jeremy Ricci
Sure, you're probably saying "well it couldn't have hurt that bad, look at PS2". PS2 sold enough to more than eliminate all the fautls of importing. HOwever, the PSP has not, and does not, and that is very evident, as Sony continued to lose money over imports and items sitting on shelves due to it being region free. Fact is, it's against the law, and it doesn't coincide with the best wishes of Sony.
Do pay attention. We are talking about the PS3, not the overpriced Jack-of-No-trades. And I'm sure it didn't coincide with the best wishes of Sega, Nintendo or Microsoft either, but they didn't sue over it, because they still made money on it. And with the exception of Mercedes (which was for a totally different reason), no one in the automobile industry has ever sued an importer for bringing cars into the country and it was done before video games were even a pipe dream.
As for Lik Sang actually breaking the law, that is also arguable.
And on "market share for certain regions," I'd love to see how importing PS3's into Europe will hurt the PS3's market share in that continent.
Also, I love how everyone ignores that both Microsoft and Nintendo also delt blows that compiled to a nice chunk of change, and also contributed to this ultimate outcome.
However, Nintendo and Microsoft were suing Lik Sang (in addition to Sony, mind you) over the sale of mod chips. They weren't suing Lik Sang over the sale of imported items, which is what Sony was doing.
Jeremy Ricci
Lik-Sang was already a rock in a hard place, and this was simply icing on the cake, theyd' broken lots of laws before, and this was just the last straw, but they felt the need to publicly address sony (and break the law once again in the process, violating users digital privacy rights).
Well, then Sony should not have broke the law by allowing its employees to have relations with Lik Sang.
 
Well, then Sony should not have broke the law by allowing its employees to have relations with Lik Sang.[/SIZE][/FONT]

I seemed to have forgotten where the law said it was illegal for an employee of said company to buy a product from said company from someone else...please, refresh my memory oh legal master of wisdom...


I'm done, obviously you're sense of self worth is too high, and you think you need a silver platter from all business and that them wanting to preserve and maintain their profit margins is bad...nothing is going to get through that thick skull of yours.
 
Jeremy Ricci
I seemed to have forgotten where the law said it was illegal for an employee of said company to buy a product from said company from someone else...please, refresh my memory oh legal master of wisdom...
Well, oh smartest of asses, if Lik Sang was doing something illegal by selling grey market goods, would not the buyers be liable as well regardless of where they worked? Furthermore, if buying the product from an importer breaks no laws than it is just stupid to say that selling the product does break laws.
Jeremy Ricci
I'm done, obviously you're sense of self worth is too high, and you think you need a silver platter from all business and that them wanting to preserve and maintain their profit margins is bad...nothing is going to get through that thick skull of yours.
Oh, I don't know about that. Perhaps if you were to cite legal precedents, explain the EU laws surrounding the matter or basically say something besides "Sony is doing it, so it must be right," I wouldn't think so much that Sony is giving importers the finger because they don't want their precious short-changed 2/3 worldwide launch to suffer. Other than perhaps sales diminished of the PS3 in America (which would admittedly be very sparse, as the PS3 would be expensive to import), I fail to see why them selling PS3's in Europe is bad for Sony as a company, or why it is illegal (and I did look up Exhaustion of Rights and it only muddled the area further). Why don't you explain why Sony doesn't warn to sue Ebay and Amazon as well? This was merely Sony's personal grudge against importers when the PSP started tanking compared to the figures Sony wanted. The problem is, though, that there were enough PSP's produced to actually cause problems in foreign markets. There will not be enough PS3's to import at any scale near what the PSP.
I will happily admit that I'm wrong on this issue, but you haven't posted any proof on it yet to warrant that opinion.
 
It hurts them beyond profits, it hurts them in quarterly projections, stocks, and market share for certain regions.

Sure, you're probably saying "well it couldn't have hurt that bad, look at PS2". PS2 sold enough to more than eliminate all the fautls of importing. HOwever, the PSP has not, and does not, and that is very evident, as Sony continued to lose money over imports and items sitting on shelves due to it being region free. Fact is, it's against the law, and it doesn't coincide with the best wishes of Sony.
I never thought about this from that angle. Good point. I was thinking, "freakin n00b" about you, but I'll take that back. :sly:
 
lol, Sony Europe directors import their PSPs from Lik-sang yet sue them for giving this service to the public.

slackbladder, are you looking for the American FFXII release?
Indeed I am. I'm looking around but I may leave it 'til next years UK release.
 
You all do realize that Sony does this to maintain a profit, because before they are your friend, they are in fact a BUSINESS. Profit is the name of the game, and if you jack holes were running a business, you wouldn't be all peaches and cream about loosing money, it wouldn't be all flowers and big eye'd birds when the fat lady started singing and you were losing money.

Seriously, you guy's have no clue at all do you? You think that importing is just a fad that has no effect on a business, this hurts them a lot, esp stocks and sales margins...freakin n00bs.

Ok first of all don't call me a n00b since I don't think that we are on the same level of education and no, I don't think that you are above me in that matter.

Anyway, so Sony loses money because of grey imports, Sony Europe does indeed, yes. Do I understand the fact that they want to control all markets ?
Of course.

Do they have law on their side ? No they don't. Not at all, so before you start attacking us, get yourself some information. It doesn't brake HK law, neither does it break German ( European ) law. That's why Play-asia and a ton of other shops are still selling their goods and nobody sues them.

Lik-sang is another story. They made a lot of faults in the past, support of piracy is maybe the biggest. Sony doesn't like them and a war between a rather small shop and a multibillion dollar worldwide company is sth Lik Sang can't win.

So I do understand Sony on the one hand, yet I just don't realize why they even talk about the " region code free feature". Ok it is region code free, thank you very much for not allowing us to use this feature.
Hey Sony, just lock the PS3 and that's it.

It hurts them beyond profits, it hurts them in quarterly projections, stocks, and market share for certain regions.

Sure, you're probably saying "well it couldn't have hurt that bad, look at PS2". PS2 sold enough to more than eliminate all the fautls of importing. HOwever, the PSP has not, and does not, and that is very evident, as Sony continued to lose money over imports and items sitting on shelves due to it being region free. Fact is, it's against the law, and it doesn't coincide with the best wishes of Sony.

So it does hurt ? I don't care. I say it again, it is my right to buy what I want where I want unless HK is lead by Stalin and Germany by Castro. please inform me if that is the case, they I take back what I said.

I understand Sony, yet the business effect is minimal. The PSP is not running bad because of imports, but because they fight against the almighty DS in every region, lose in every region. GTA is running well, crap software isn't, so what? Not my fault, not my problem.

I'm talking about the PS3. What do you think ? That the PS3 will ly in the shelves anywhere on this planet within the next 6 months ? Are you kidding me ? Some freaks will pay a lot to import the console which will boost Japanese sales ( a tiny little bit ) and eventually hurt European sales to an even smaller degree...why ? Because I will not only buy a Japanese console but a PAL console someday. Importing consoles and games has never been cheap and it won't be.

I tell you another story. Volkswagen is selling their cars for 20% less in other European countries. Result : German car dealers reimport the cars from there.
That's the way it goes.
Also, I love how everyone ignores that both Microsoft and Nintendo also delt blows that compiled to a nice chunk of change, and also contributed to this ultimate outcome. Lik-Sang was already a rock in a hard place, and this was simply icing on the cake, theyd' broken lots of laws before, and this was just the last straw, but they felt the need to publicly address sony (and break the law once again in the process, violating users digital privacy rights).

HAs been answered by Tornado already, don't mix import hardware/software and modchips. I totally understand every action against piracy and support that.

Let me state that again, I don't hurt Sony... If everybody would support them as I do they would be larger than Microsoft. I paid them for almost 200 original games, 5 consoles and over 20 pieces of hardware.

I seemed to have forgotten where the law said it was illegal for an employee of said company to buy a product from said company from someone else...please, refresh my memory oh legal master of wisdom...

It isn't, just as importing.
Yes I know that Sony won the trial, but ultimately ( European court ) they wouldn't win. But Sony has teh funds to fight, Lik Sang didn't.
 
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