Racing etiquette

[Biggles]

Is it legit to drive through a car in front of you that's ghosting because the driver has screwed up?

 

[750F-RM]

Imo yes, for sure 👍

 

[angelx]

yes, most of the time when people are ghosts its because they are going much slower and most racers wont pull out of the racing line after they have committed a mistake even though they are going slower.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

its normaly your best option to do this. seeing as he is being forced to slow staying behind him and trying to pass cleanly will just end up slowing you down and someone behind you will just drive thru the ghost car. why should you have to pay for another drivers penalty? also on occasion you come up on a ghosted driver so quick trying to go around like he was solid would cuase you to lose control of the behicle so i would say yea driving through a ghosted player is perfectly fine if he was penalized. if hes just ghosting cuz of tire spin in a turn i would say no becuase you really dont know if he will unghost or not and you could end up taking both you and him out.

 

[NLxAROSA]

What NapoleonMikey says. Also take into account the time he is penalized. If he took a shortcut it will be 4-5 seconds until he becomes solid again. Ramming may give shorter penalties. Most of the time you can guess with reasonable accuracy when he will turn solid again. If you can't determine it, assume he'll turn solid really quickly. Also remember a car will not become solid if another car is partly in it.

 

[sWozzie]

I drive around if possible because he may stop being a ghost just before you reach him, you can also use this to your advantage to avoid being rammed, just brake and steer around a bit while entering a corner and you will go ghost - the potential rammer then quite often flies through you and off the track, lots of laughing then ensues

 

[AlfaAlfa]

just brake and steer around a bit while entering a corner and you will go ghost - the potential rammer then quite often flies through you and off the track, lots of laughing then ensues

Intentionally ghost yourself - I like it! Thanks 👍

 

[NLxAROSA]

Works extremely well at Suzuka when entering the hairpin and spoon. 👍

But there is an even better method: getting them to ghost in those curves. Requires some timing skill, but it is even more rewarding. They are already coming in way too hard, and since they must use you as a brake to make the corner, it's easy to have them break line.

Coming in too fast + breaking line = ghost.

 

[Chadwicksracing]

I have no problem going thur a ghosted car. I am not going to slow down for their mistake on the track. Like someone else said, its their mistake and most of the time they don't get out of the racing line. Whenever I make a mistake I usually get out of the racing line. Never slow down becuase of a ghosted car, just my opinion.

That brings me to another point: If you go off the track you have to wait for it to be clear to get back on the track.. You will see me do this, If I go off the track or get taken out, I alway wait until its clear to rejoin the racing line.

 

[Ravenmaven]

I've seen cars "ghosting" while seemingly in control going around tight corners. I do not go through those cars. If someone ghosts while going sideways or misses the braking point I think its ok to go through them.

 

[Biggles]

Well, ghosting occurs in a wide variety of situations &, as with penalties, I find the ghosting can be a bit unpredictable.

When a driver well up ahead is swerving around out of control & ghosting (see also multiple ghosting at Suzuka turn 1!), I would definitely drive through him (making sure he doesn't "solidify" just before I get there). When the driver ghosts immediately in front of you, it's hard NOT to drive through him. Last night someone ghosted immediately in front of me on the Suzuka chicane, for no apparent reason, so I drove through him - but I felt a bit guilty about it!

Conversely, I have had the situation a couple of times at Suzuka chicane where a driver behind me has ghosted & driven right through me. Nice "teleporting trick" if you can pull it off on demand!

I would never deliberately brake check or swerve to cause ghosting & allow an out-of-control following car to dive through me on a corner. Apart from anything else, it's just too unpredictable & may result in my getting punted. Generally, when I see a following driver coming in too fast, I will move to the inside or outside of the track to allow him to "go through"...

 

[Dolp]

Regarding specific ghost situation occuring at Suzuka chicane, I often see some cars missing the fast corner before (named 130R ?) and getting penalties for shortcut when they come to large and join track on the brake zone. With a great speed at the 130R exit, even with the penalty, the driver manage to make a decent move throught the chicane braking zone and just unghost at the chicane entry or middle. And yeah, it's quite frustrating to loose a position as the same driver without penalty (and ghost) would not be able to pass at this place without ram/bump move.

 

[Biggles]

Another etiquette issue:

at what point should the opponent driver give way?

The situation I'm thinking about occurs most obviously on Suzuka at the end of Dunlop, going into the first right-hander of Degner. Often, if I'm tailing a car going into Dunlop I will try & out-accelerate it as I sweep round the outside of Dunlop. If I'm slightly ahead approaching the right hander I will late brake, hung the apex & maneuver inside the opponent driver. The problem is, if the opponent driver does not give way, he will inevitably get bumped into the gravel & then I feel "guilty". However, if you've got your nose ahead, do you not have the right to take the corner?

The other situation where this occurs is the little right-hander immediately before the Hairpin: if you get better speed coming out of Degner it's possible to out-accelerate your opponent & squeeze inside on the right-hander. However, again, if your opponent doesn't give way, you end up bumping him off.

(There are obviously other situations where this occurs - Turn 1 & going into Spoon for example - but in those situations it usually seems more clear-cut & generally the right response is to hold back, because the trajectory of the curve does not really allow for cutting inside.)

These two passing situations are the most "exciting" on Suzuka, which otherwise pretty much comes down to exploiting a serious mistake by your opponent or "tailing & drafting" to over-take. (One thing I would add, is that the cars seem to respond too much when they get bumped in this way - sort of the opposite of GT4 where the cars bounce off each other like barriers. This makes the consequence of any "rubbing" too dramatic for the car on the outside IMO.)

Comments?

 

[Sa!!yz~Rage]

Ghosting is so stupid, who the hell thought that up should be fired. You're coming up to a bunch of cars zig zagging all over the place and now you have to guess which cars are really there and aren't because they're 'flashing'? Ya, that's a great idea.

I'd rather have someone spin and take me out at least I'd know what happened and why. How many times have you driven through the ghost and then BAM, it's like the car solidifies inside yours or something. Nice.....

 

[Dragonistic]

if you're side by side, then the guy on the outside should give way and fall in behind, or keep side by side without cutting in i.e missing the apex by over a car width at least. If the inside car is only nose to rear 1/4 panel, the inside car should lay off and give room, but in the situation you described the outside driver should be willing to give way or risk being shunted like is inevitable.

How many times have you driven through the ghost and then BAM, it's like the car solidifies inside yours or something. Nice.....

Errr, never.

 

[AERO_HDT]

I have no problem driving through a ghost if they've made a mistake, but if I see someone ghost through no fault of their own then I generally won't drive through them. If you see a pile-up into turn one and two of Suzuka and a few nose-to-tails, then I'll hang back and let them sort themselves out rather than go gung-ho and try and drive through a ghost or two.

I'm one of those guys who's happy to stay at the back of the field and let the rammers fall away during the esses at Suzuka, the problem is it's hard to stay at the back of the field when you start on pole, hehe. You end up being a bit of a punching bag into the first corner. My racing doesn't really start in earnest until Dunlop.

 

[Beerz]

if you're side by side, then the guy on the outside should give way and fall in behind, or keep side by side without cutting in i.e missing the apex by over a car width at least. If the inside car is only nose to rear 1/4 panel, the inside car should lay off and give room, but in the situation you described the outside driver should be willing to give way or risk being shunted like is inevitable.

I agree completely. 👍

What I get a lot is being on the inside (Degner's 1st turn, for example), side by side with the other car, brake a bit early, and get rammed from the lleft because the other guy decided to take the apex at normal speed, despite knowing there was a car in there...

 

[gitSehT]

going in to #1 on Suzuka last night 2nd lap into the race with a fellow GTPer I was nose to nose with him after drafting him upto the corner, braked hard and then ran half way over the rumble strip in order to let him keep his line. He came across (to the inside) farther then i expected and bounced off me and into the kitty litter. Now I felt bad, but I did not feel particularly at fault. I did wait for him at the end of the esses and let him regain his position (after a battle with the driver that was behind us), but I am not 100% that it was required.

Input?

 

[Dragonistic]

going in to #1 on Suzuka last night 2nd lap into the race with a fellow GTPer I was nose to nose with him after drafting him upto the corner, braked hard and then ran half way over the rumble strip in order to let him keep his line. He came across (to the inside) farther then i expected and bounced off me and into the kitty litter. Now I felt bad, but I did not feel particularly at fault. I did wait for him at the end of the esses and let him regain his position (after a battle with the driver that was behind us), but I am not 100% that it was required.

Input?

I assume you mean he came inside a bit after the first part of the curve coming into the second? if so i think you were probably ahead judging by the story, just not fully, in which case yes it wasn't your fault, and he shouldve layyed off and fell in behind you, or taken a wider line.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I did wait for him at the end of the esses and let him regain his position (after a battle with the driver that was behind us), but I am not 100% that it was required.

In my opinion, waiting is a nice gesture, but it is most certainly not required in any situation.

The way I see it: if you hit me unintentionally (e.g. braking too late, judgement error, steering error, etc., etc.), I don't expect you to wait, no need to screw up the race of two drivers instead of one. Errors happen, I don't mind that. And if it was intentional you're not going to stop anyway.

 

[Biggles]

Well, I tend to think that if you're holding your line steady on the inside & the other driver moves across & bumps you, you're definitely NOT at fault. The thing is, you're normally much safer on the inside, because a bump generally does not effect you that much, whereas any nudge if you're on the outside will send you off.

What complicates the issue is the lack of peripheral vision makes it very hard to know EXACTLY where the two cars are in relation to each other & so it's hard to know for sure who's got the position when it's very close. On the other hand, with no agressive maneuvering & rubbing at all, the racing gets a bit predictable & uninteresting.

In my experience, with good drivers I have raced with repeatedly & share mutual trust, there seems to be a tacit understanding of what is & isn't fair. 👍

 

[Dragonistic]

Yea, because of being at a disadvantage with a sixaxis, i use chase so i have the full view of who's beside me to make up for the lesser precision with the sticks i have, that way i'm often cleaner then most drivers. But you're 100% right, inside driver side-by-side has right of way if they win the braking contest into the corner, if its even the outside driver just has to brake harder and get in line or hold the outside and leave room or its their own risk.

Had a good example going into T1 of Degner with a GT in my Amuse, i was alongside and he braked a little early in order to let me slot in infront clean.

 

[Biggles]

Had a good example going into T1 of Degner with a GT in my Amuse, i was alongside and he braked a little early in order to let me slot in infront clean.

I think this rarely happens, & it's partly because, unless you're using chase view, the two drivers cannot SEE each other's cars when they are side-by-side & each may assume that the other is going to back off.

 

[Flagmo-T]

Driving the f1 on Fuji!!!

It's amazing how people can make sure you get a ramming, by blasting into you, in the tight corners, in real life, it would cost your car, because a F1 is like fragile parts, that is going to pieces, with the lightest touch, and it's so annoing, that many people just wanna win by not driving with respect for others.

The best win I can get, is a nice hectic race with some good racing etiquettes guy's, and yes they are there, I would love if the penalty system, would be better to figure out, if you was being throwing out to the side, because of the guy that races around you, is having net Spikes going on, It often ends in Penalties, and not for the right reason..

The game isn't stabil enough yet, to be giving back, the real feel, same goes for the situation you are talking about, we have to drive through the ghost, unless you have created the wrongs with the other Racer, then you'll stop, or give space, to have the guy, coming in front of you, and then take up the race again..

Somtimes, when I am too blame (Mistake) then i'll make a drivthrough penalty ( Drive through the pit area), my self, and that cost me 4 secs, and also some time getting back to the track.. maybe I loose that race, but then i will get back and be better next time. that makes the game more Fun, and more alive.. winning isn't everything..

Dream Extreme
Flagmo-T

 

[Ardius]

I think this rarely happens, & it's partly because, unless you're using chase view, the two drivers cannot SEE each other's cars when they are side-by-side & each may assume that the other is going to back off.

They can if they assign the look left/right buttons and use them. Am I the only one that does this with a controller? Its very handy for situations such as that one. Just a quick tap so as to glance at your side is all you need, just like looking behind you.

I never drive in the chase camera now (ever since GT4), I find it a million times easier to drive with the roof or bumper camera. You can see more of the track and you are seeing things as they happen, with the chase camera you're slightly behind your car going around corners, so you're reacting later.

 

[Biggles]

I would like it if people used this thread to discuss a variety of etiquette issues, not just the ghosting one as it will save creating a bunch of threads.

Well, here's another one:

I have noticed some drivers jiggling all over the track in order to prevent the car behind from drafting. While this might be legitimate from a "gaming" perspective, it looks ridiculous, unrealistic & is very uncool. Opinions?

 

[Ardius]

I would like it if people used this thread to discuss a variety of etiquette issues, not just the ghosting one as it will save creating a bunch of threads.

Well, here's another one:

I have noticed some drivers jiggling all over the track in order to prevent the car behind from drafting. While this might be legitimate from a "gaming" perspective, it looks ridiculous, unrealistic & is very uncool. Opinions?

Is the slipstreaming really realistic though? I think its a bit too exaggerative. If it wasnt so strong at speeding cars up, maybe people wouldnt resort to such tactics.

 

[mindwise]

They can if they assign the look left/right buttons and use them.

Yeah i have the buttons on my g25 for looking to the side and pulling the seq. separate shift will make me look behind.
I think it's still quite tricky though to look to the side during or just before cornering, i can virtually taste the sand when i look to a side.

I just need more practice, what a fortunate excuse to drive 👍

The chase view has never liked me, i like bumper or in car, in car gives me most feedback of what the car is doing.

Wrt the jiggling, i have to say i like to see 'the snake' jiggle along the Fuji straight, it may not be realistic but i think it's fun to watch.
I don't mind people going from left to right, as long as they don;t do it when i'm next to them it'll just slow them down.

 

[Biggles]

Is the slipstreaming really realistic though?

I don't think so. However, if everyone starts jiggling to avoid the slipstreaming effect, online is going to look ridiculous!

 

[gitSehT]

In my opinion, waiting is a nice gesture, but it is most certainly not required in any situation.

The way I see it: if you hit me unintentionally (e.g. braking too late, judgement error, steering error, etc., etc.), I don't expect you to wait, no need to screw up the race of two drivers instead of one. Errors happen, I don't mind that. And if it was intentional you're not going to stop anyway.

I was not sure if it was his fault or he just did not see me (he was using bumper cam). It worked out alright though because I ended up winning I believe, even after waiting.