Racing Softs looked down upon?

[Furinkazen]

Softs I rarely use. They make it to easy and boring. I use hard tyres primarily.

 

[Fondo458]

Average?

It turns it into a fantastic arcade game!

What it does is allow you to take advantage of all the cars' positive aspects, not cover up flaws. And it doesn't level the playing field either. If you're a good driver with track knowledge, you're going to beat inferior drivers who don't know the corners, simple as that.

I use RS primarily on the F1 cars, the prototypes, and the touring cars because in a real world those are the cars actually wearing racing tires. However if there's a race using sports cars with no tire restrictions, there's no reason NOT to use racing softs. It gives you an edge in nearly all respects, and who would deliberately show up to a real race with inferior gear, just to prove what an awesome driver they are?

A d-bag, that's who.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

If you turned up to a garage and asked them to fit F1 qualifying super softs to any road car, let alone if it was still stock, and you told them that you had to fit these because it is the only way of being the fastest on a circuit, every mechanic in the vicinity would probably suffer a heart attack through uncontrollable laughter.

It just would not happen and it is just not possible.

As for fitting them on racing cars, it has been proven that GT5's RS tyres are too grippy, RH's are the maximum that should be fitted. Actually, some of the race cars in GT5 only match their real life counter parts when fitted with Comfort or Sports tyres, as the RH's still offer too much grip.

 

[Johnnypenso]

That's because it takes a lot more skill keeping an MR 600pp car on the tarmac that's on Sports Hards than it does on Racing Softs. Racing Softs also totally decimate a car's character, it's flaws and advantages, and bands people and different cars together. It doesn't matter if you're driving an FF, FR, MR or 4WD on RS tyres, they will all have a very similar performance. This would not work on sensible, far more realistic tyres.

In my opinion, this is supposed to be a simulator that, crazy as it sounds, tries to simulate real life. Most cars in real life grip at the same levels that the Comfort and Sports tyre range does in this game, and that is the only way of feeling the cars as near as possible to what they do in real life. Racing Softs completely eliminate all of this and turn GT5 into nothing more than an average arcade game. That is not what this game was intended for.

If you disagree with any of this, feel free to search the forums on detailed experiements that have been carried out, where in game tyres from various types of cars have been compared to their real life counter parts.

With RS tyres, there's little need to counter steer, feather the throttle or the brakes or be smooth. You can just mash the controls and still be fine.

This is all well and good and I don't disagree with your "facts", but there is more to every discussion than just facts. The vast majority of players on GT5 or any other game, have been and always will be, casual gamers. They don't have the time or want to spend the time it takes to learn to control a 600PP road car on Sport of Comfort Tires. My 11 year old niece or my gf is quite happy taking a cool sounding pink Subaru around the track on RS tires for an hour. My friends that don't have the game come over and they like to sit behind the wheel and race a GT500 or Nascar or a Porsche or Lambo around the track for an hour or two on RS tires without tire wear and they enjoy themselves immensely. There's plenty of room for all kinds of players in the game and it's not up to me or you to tell anyone else how to enjoy their time behind the wheel on GT5.

And to say there's no skill required on RS tires or any need to be smooth or feather the throttle is baloney. I've run many a 4-6 lap sprint online on RS tires where there was 5-10 seconds between 1st and 2nd and 30+ seconds from the front to the back of the grid. Yes it's easier to keep it on the track with RS tires, but to race and be fast and consistent takes as much skill as any other tire, otherwise you could throw a blanket over every RS tire field at the finish line and that's just not the case. Staying on the track and being fast are not the same thing.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

it's not up to me or you to tell anyone else how to enjoy their time behind the wheel on GT5.

And to say there's no skill required on RS tires or any need to be smooth or feather the throttle is baloney. I've run many a 4-6 lap sprint online on RS tires where there was 5-10 seconds between 1st and 2nd and 30+ seconds from the front to the back of the grid.

I don't remember telling anyone how they should be playing the game, I was stating what the game's purpose is. I'm pretty sure Kaz designed it as a simulator, and then added aids such as driving lines, SRF and the over grippy RS tyres to cater to the more casual gamer for increased sales and fanbase.

As for your second point, this is not what I've experienced at all. In all of the RS rooms I've been in, the racing was very close. This includes people on my friends list, it's always very close on RS tyres, but put them on anything less and you soon start to see the seperation in skill, control and difference in lap times between the players.

 

[Motor City Hami]

The only place where I have seen racing softs looked down upon is in the tuning forums. It is viewed as the sissy way to find grip. Most of the street tunes produced in the GT Planet tuning forums are between sport hard and sport soft and the race car tunes seem to be on racing hard. You'll be seen as having more credibility if you can tune on harder tires.

 

[shmogt]

For me I look at racing soft as the natural tire to choose. This is just a game so I feel go big or go home. Put every possible part and do whatever you can to squeeze every ounce of power out of it. Going super fast in a lambo with the perfect tune to let it just rip up the course is just too much fun. Gets even crazier on tighter courses like London where the walls of space are so narrow and the turns are practically all 90degree corners. With other tires to me it just kills the point. Why would I want a awesome car to be spinning the wheels and going swirly when the whole time I know it can do better. The only time other tires are used for me are for lower pp or just lower powered cars in general. If its a 500pp car I make a tune for sports hard or up. That way you know it's gonna work great at virtually any tires you prefer to use. The only car I ever did that was awesome with sports tires was the pagani zonda r. It comes with racing hard and was tuned to be tons of fun with lesser ties and every time I have fun driving it. However with racing soft it still performs better.

 

[rosckolove]

That's because it takes a lot more skill keeping an MR 600pp car on the tarmac that's on Sports Hards than it does on Racing Softs.

your absolutely wrong sunshine. pushing the car to the edge is hard, no matter what tire you use. and the tire of choice does not change how hard reaching that edge is, if you disagree, your not pushing the car to its edge, your just slow.

i can switch between tires of all kinds and after about 5 minutes of adjusting to the switch, i whoop ass.

i would like you to come race with me on racing soft tires around the ring. then you can judge the amount of skill i have in comparison to yourself.

and then, give me 5 minutes warmup, and i'll use your sports tire afterward.

oh by the way, my 600pp italia is a track car, it has all kinds of engine work done to it, and its been gutted to make it weigh less, and incase you haven't noticed there are no stoplights in this game or speed limit signs, so why the hell would i put stupid slow tires on it?

if anyone thinks sports/comfort tire users have more skill then racing softs users. please step up and race around the ring, i'll give you anything you want if you win and expect nothing if i win. i'll just take the satisfaction of educating you.

and please no sub 550pp races, if i wanted to race minivans i could just go ask my grandma to borrow her car in real life.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

:tup:You tell 'em rosckolove! ^^^

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

@ Rosckolove : Have you ever tried to race with CM/CH tires using a stock Cizeta V16T or a tuned Opel Speedster Turbo that I shared right now, even some fast drivers find it difficult to handle my Opel with SS tires - the Opel is only 460pp

 

[rosckolove]

no i can't say i have. to me video games are meant to simulate what i can't do in real life.

like become a super efficient killing machine with a bolt action rifle or, race expensive/unobtainable cars.

therefore i really only drive cars that would seam appealing to me in real life.
there is no way i'm going to drive some p.o.s. old slow crappy car if i can drive a Ferrari.

thats why i refuse to race anything below 550pp. i admit it is good racing, but thats really only because its easier to keep a 200 hp predictable sliding sled on the road then it is to keep a highly tuned twitchy 6-700 hp speed machine going all out. most people just can't do it. everyone can drive some slow peice of crap somewhat well.

edit- just for fun, i will try your cars out, if you (or someone) has some type of hotlap i can try and beat. preferably on the ring, because after getting used to it i just find every other track boring.

i'm not harping on anyone for driving the slower cars, i'm just stating why i personally hate it, and i realize that there is nothing wrong with it, as long as you don't try and say you have more skill then me.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

no i can't say i have. to me video games are meant to simulate what i can't do in real life.

like become a super efficient killing machine with a bolt action rifle or, race expensive/unobtainable cars.

therefore i really only drive cars that would seam appealing to me in real life.
there is no way i'm going to drive some p.o.s. old slow crappy car if i can drive a Ferrari.

thats why i refuse to race anything below 550pp. i admit it is good racing, but thats really only because its easier to keep a 200 hp predictable sliding sled on the road then it is to keep a highly tuned twitchy 6-700 hp speed machine going all out. most people just can't do it. everyone can drive some slow peice of crap somewhat well.

edit- just for fun, i will try your cars out, if you (or someone) has some type of hotlap i can try and beat. preferably on the ring, because after getting used to it i just find every other track boring.

i'm not harping on anyone for driving the slower cars, i'm just stating why i personally hate it, and i realize that there is nothing wrong with it, as long as you don't try and say you have more skill then me.

The Cizeta V16T should have at least 549pp, with simple upgrade 550pp easy. If you are interested to drive my Opel, here is a link to the tune I posted for FITT 460pp Tuning Shootout, read the OP, click on the testers for Group A, you will see the times posted by testers of my car. The track used are Autumn Ring and High Speed Ring Reverse.

The tune :
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7579472#post7579472

The testers :
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7546107#post7546107

The testers record time is made by Ugabugaz with DS3, AT transmission, ABS and no other aids, Grip real, SS tires :
Autumn Ring : 1:22.394
High Speed Ring Reverse : 1:12.133

If you can get into 1:21.xxx for Autumn Ring and 1:11.xxx for High Speed Ring Reverse without any aids, SS tires, grip real, ABS optional with my car, you are pretty good then. Send me FR : GTP_Orido if you want to have a go.

Or an easier one, beat my time on the current TT seasonals - Monza Circuit, Ferrari 458 Italia - 1:56.610, no aids, no ABS, SH tires.

I used Ferrari 458 Italia for the Monza 550pp time trial, the car originally had a wing installed, but the on the high speed track like Monza, it didn't help much. So I removed it, and did several laps, no ABS, no other aids, with stick controller, manual, my best time is : 1:56.610.

Top speed on the main straight before Variante del Rettifilo is 170/171 mph, on the back straight is 160/162 mph, before Variante Ascari is 159/160 mph, before Variante della Roggia is 150+ mph.

I have some slow section, with a better run 1:55.xxx is possible. I will list my tune below and some pictures of braking points for reference to both ABS & non ABS driver.

TUNE :

Ferrari 458 Italia '09 : Misty Blue Metallic: 6xx miles

Specs
Horsepower: 463 hp at 6500 RPM
Torque: 427 lb-ft at 5700 RPM
Weight: 1260 kg
Performance Points: 550
Power Limiter : 73%

Tuning Parts Installed

Weight Reduction Stage 3
Window Weight Reduction
Carbon Hood:Body Color
Chassis Reinforcement
ECU Tuning
Sports Intake Manifold
Racing Air Filter
Sports Exhaust Manifold
Full Custom Transmission
Clutch Twin Plate
Flywheel:Semi Racing
Adjustable LSD
Suspension Full Custom Kit

Sports Hard Tires

No Aero - no Downforce

Ballast Amount: 28 kg
Ballast Position: -50
Weight Balance : 43/57

Transmission

Move Final to the right until max 6.500
Move top speed the left until min 137

Adjust gear :
1st : 3.000
2nd : 2.025
3rd : 1.587
4th : 1.286
5th : 1.078
6th : 0.934
7th : 0.810

Move the Final to 4.900 - top speed at the graph : 198 mph


LSD

Initial Torque: 60
Acceleration Sensitivity: 5
Braking Sensitivity: 7

Suspension
Front, Rear
Ride Height: (-20), (-20)
Spring Rate: 9.5, 10.2
Dampers (Extension): 7, 7
Dampers (Compression): 6, 8
Anti-Roll Bars: 7, 6
Camber Angle: 1.0, 0.6
Toe Angle: 0.00, 0.00

Brakes
F/R : 10, 6


Braking point guide - these were braking point with the above tune and no ABS, with BB : 10/6. All in chronological order :


Variante del Rettifilo : Brake just before 200m sign

Variante della Roggia : Brake just after the 200m sign and right before the bridge

Curve di Lesmo 1st right : Brake right on the last tree shadow on the straight

Curve di Lesmo 2nd right : Brake just before 50m sign

Variante Ascari: Brake right after passing the 200m sign

Curva Parabolica : Brake just before the green patch on the left trackside.

Okay, I hope the tune could help those who use the car and the braking reference could give hints to how late braking can be done.

The Ferrari is also on share on my account.

 

[Grand Prix]

The way I see it, driving an agile car at the limit on R3s is difficult. Driving the same car on C3s is just as difficult, although in very different ways. With comfort tires, your braking distances will increase, cornering speeds will be slower, and the back end will be more eager to slide with acceleration (and at the same time, due to slower cornering speeds, will be easier to correct). With racing tires, it can be harder to find exactly how far you can push the car, braking distances will be very short and may be difficult to judge, and because the cornering speeds are much faster, once you pass the limit of grip on racing tires, the back end may snap away almost without warning, and will be extremely difficult to catch.

So it's a bit like apples and oranges. I happen to prefer comfort tires, although finding someone to race with on these is very, very rare. Cars just become so much more alive on comfort and hard sports tires to me. Driving a Yellowbird or 512BB on R3s just seems... Wrong.


I was racing with a friend of mine a while back using the Jaguar XJ13 and Ford GT40 Mark IV on Racing Hards. We agreed that maybe the grip levels of the R1s weren't quite realistic enough for 1960s racing tires. So we went to Sports Softs for an experiment. Just for craps and giggles, we also lowered the downforce on these beauties to their minimum values. The results were surprising. Although possible that the S3s weren't quite representative of 1960s grip levels either, driving our strange concoctions was massive fun. It took ages to finally slow down enough for Mulsanne Corner on La Sarthe, as you might expect to actually happen. The rear tended to slip away more easily, and yet, more manageable to correct. The result was better racing. Easier to outbrake one another with the longer braking distances, and more opportunities for side-by-side racing, due to more slipping and 4 wheel drifting going on.


So there is nothing really to take away from people that like using 700PP monsters on Racing Softs. Just be warned that racing with lower grip tires may become a bit addicting. Combined with no ABS, it's like driving an entirely different simulator.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The way I see it, driving an agile car at the limit on R3s is difficult. Driving the same car on C3s is just as difficult, although in very different ways. With comfort tires, your braking distances will increase, cornering speeds will be slower, and the back end will be more eager to slide with acceleration (and at the same time, due to slower cornering speeds, will be easier to correct). With racing tires, it can be harder to find exactly how far you can push the car, braking distances will be very short and may be difficult to judge, and because the cornering speeds are much faster, once you pass the limit of grip on racing tires, the back end may snap away almost without warning, and will be extremely difficult to catch.

So it's a bit like apples and oranges. I happen to prefer comfort tires, although finding someone to race with on these is very, very rare. Cars just become so much more alive on comfort and hard sports tires to me. Driving a Yellowbird or 512BB on R3s just seems... Wrong.


I was racing with a friend of mine a while back using the Jaguar XJ13 and Ford GT40 Mark IV on Racing Hards. We agreed that maybe the grip levels of the R1s weren't quite realistic enough for 1960s racing tires. So we went to Sports Softs for an experiment. Just for craps and giggles, we also lowered the downforce on these beauties to their minimum values. The results were surprising. Although possible that the S3s weren't quite representative of 1960s grip levels either, driving our strange concoctions was massive fun. It took ages to finally slow down enough for Mulsanne Corner on La Sarthe, as you might expect to actually happen. The rear tended to slip away more easily, and yet, more manageable to correct. The result was better racing. Easier to outbrake one another with the longer braking distances, and more opportunities for side-by-side racing, due to more slipping and 4 wheel drifting going on.


So there is nothing really to take away from people that like using 700PP monsters on Racing Softs. Just be warned that racing with lower grip tires may become a bit addicting. Combined with no ABS, it's like driving an entirely different simulator.

Looks like we are alike in some ways, I never drive with ABS or any aids, I prefer comfort tires for road cars up to 600pp, sports tires on most tuned and racing cars. Add me if you like, I often host no ABS practice room with comfort tires.

 

[rosckolove]

458 italia at monza using my RS 600pp tune but with less camber.

1:55.673

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

458 italia at monza using my RS 600pp tune but with less camber.

1:55.673

Try 550pp SH tires like I did for the TT seasonal 1:56.610. Check my previous post

600pp with RS should have at least 1:50.xxx or maybe even less. Current leader at the TT with Gallardo 550pp, SH tires is 1:51.xxx.

 

[Onboy123]

Try 550pp SH tires like I did for the TT seasonal 1:56.610. Check my previous post

600pp with RS should have at least 1:50.xxx or maybe even less. Current leader at the TT with Gallardo 550pp, SH tires is 1:51.xxx.

He did, just using a tune for a car of higher PP.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

He did, just using a tune for a car of higher PP.

I just checked the boards at the http://www.mygranturismo.net/rankings.php?sec=3&board=95&start=1500, the fastest Ferrari 458 is 1:55.3xx, and his PSN is not there, so I assume he did not post the time on the seasonal event.

 

[rosckolove]

I just checked the boards at the http://www.mygranturismo.net/rankings.php?sec=3&board=95&start=1500, the fastest Ferrari 458 is 1:55.9xx, so I assume he did not post the time on the seasonal event as I had a look at the ranking around that time, no 458 yet. With a perfect run, 1:55.8xx is quite hard to achieve, let alone 1:55.6xx.

well i did, and i think its beatable.

could it be because i ran a lap with a gallardo and that erased the 458 time?

wait, i have to submit it, it won't just update itself? i'm confused i have never done this before

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

well i did, and i think its beatable.

Yeah, I edited my previous post, 1:55.3xx is the fastest at the moment for 458, maybe my tune is not good enough

 

[rosckolove]

how do i submit my time?

 

[Onboy123]

how do i submit my time?

The time will automatically update itself if you do it from the seasonal event in question.

 

[rosckolove]

ok, i thought so. 2 questions then. (i did do it in the seasonal event)

how long does it usually take to update?

if i beat my time with a different car, will it erase the slower lap?

edit- questions answered

bummer, i tried with the gallardo and smashed the 458 time, i guess i can't reset it or anything?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

No, you can't, once a better time is posted, it's permanent. Don't worry about it, if you can do 1:55.xxx with the car, that means you are good My time has several section with my car going understeer and went wide, so maybe eventually I'll get into 1:55.xx after more laps.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

your absolutely wrong sunshine. pushing the car to the edge is hard, no matter what tire you use. and the tire of choice does not change how hard reaching that edge is, if you disagree, your not pushing the car to its edge, your just slow.

i can switch between tires of all kinds and after about 5 minutes of adjusting to the switch, i whoop ass.

i would like you to come race with me on racing soft tires around the ring. then you can judge the amount of skill i have in comparison to yourself.

and then, give me 5 minutes warmup, and i'll use your sports tire afterward.

oh by the way, my 600pp italia is a track car, it has all kinds of engine work done to it, and its been gutted to make it weigh less, and incase you haven't noticed there are no stoplights in this game or speed limit signs, so why the hell would i put stupid slow tires on it?

if anyone thinks sports/comfort tire users have more skill then racing softs users. please step up and race around the ring, i'll give you anything you want if you win and expect nothing if i win. i'll just take the satisfaction of educating you.

and please no sub 550pp races, if i wanted to race minivans i could just go ask my grandma to borrow her car in real life.

This is by far my most hated combination in this game and I also hate the fact that online is littered with these same exact rooms. As I mentioned somewhere before, it feels like I'm playing Wipeout rather than GT5. That's not the game's purpose, it's called a simulator.

The day you can top a GT Academy or Seasonal Time Trial leaderboard is the day you can outrightly call me slow before you've ever raced me. Now this is not to say that I'm a fast racer or faster than you, but you can't tell someone they must be slow because they don't use RS tires or that they find RS tires easier because they eliminate a car's flaws.

You can use your favourite track as a reference in one of the current seasonals, it almost caters to your tastes - 550pp Lamborghini's around the ring on Sports Softs. If you can win this in 6:45 in the Nurb seasonal race, then I'll listen to you more. As for now, I'll stick to my opinion based from my own findings and also from the influence of the fastest people that I've raced with (which includes some GT Academy Finalists).

 

[dxm8975]

I personally think the reason why the racing soft tyres are looked down on is that they can offer us with more rotating grip which can give the driver a chance for superior performance over others with stiffer tyres in the same condition, and it can divert from the term of clear racing especially after a few laps when the tires get heated and the drivers become equally enabled to steer their own car right and left since the one with a pair of soft tires are faster than those with a set of harder tyres like racing hard and midium.

In the endurances races, using the softs tyres may not be that problematic because instead of providing him a capacity of showing increased cornering speed, the soft tyres are easier to wear out so that you have to go back to the pit-stop more frequently in shorter intervals. However in relatively a brief race such as a one-make competition or under the predicament where the realistic settings are omitted, that can be a disadvantage for those who wear the harder tyres while the one with soft tires is advantageous to them.

 

[rosckolove]

No, you can't, once a better time is posted, it's permanent. Don't worry about it, if you can do 1:55.xxx with the car, that means you are good My time has several section with my car going understeer and went wide, so maybe eventually I'll get into 1:55.xx after more laps.

lol..more laps will indeed be your cure. i can't imagine how many the guy did to get the 1:51. i manage to keep pace with him through the corners, but not all in the same lap ahaha. i was frustrated last night every time i nailed a few corners i would just inevitably screw another one up. the italia is capable of a 1:54 so keep trying man.

after a while it became a contest to see who could cut the corners the best, most efficiently, without catching a penalty. it took me a while to get my braking points even close, because i NEVER race the track.

do the seasonals represent online physics, or offline physics?

i think the reason i prefer racing tires, is because it give somewhat of a sense of speed. something this game doesn't do well

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

lol..more laps will indeed be your cure. i can't imagine how many the guy did to get the 1:51. i manage to keep pace with him through the corners, but not all in the same lap ahaha. i was frustrated last night every time i nailed a few corners i would just inevitably screw another one up. the italia is capable of a 1:54 so keep trying man.

after a while it became a contest to see who could cut the corners the best, most efficiently, without catching a penalty. it took me a while to get my braking points even close, because i NEVER race the track.

do the seasonals represent online physics, or offline physics?

i think the reason i prefer racing tires, is because it give somewhat of a sense of speed. something this game doesn't do well

Offline, what's the top speed of your 458 before the 1st chicane ? I got 171mph, before braking hard.

 

[analog]

I mostly echo what Grand Prix wrote and I don't think it's a case of hating Racing Softs on any car but mostly that they're often used on every car online.
I can completely understand that some need to use racing tyres (not necessarily softs though) even on high-powered roadcars if they just start playing the game (I did too initially for a short while, particularly when trying to get used to the different online physics), or not very frequently, or don't have the time or patience to practice and get used to 'lesser' (in brackets as the experience they offer isn't lesser) tyres.

But using it for all types of cars, even the low-powered ones where even Comfort Softs feel too grippy is something that I put down to simply not appreciating or understanding all the different cars on offer and what makes them actually come into their own right.
I'm talking characteristics here, not outright speed or even realism (as you theoretically could put sticky soft slicks on any car in real life, although those cars weren't build to cope with those grip levels), different cars need different approaches, not one size fits all.

 

[bdubclub]

your absolutely wrong sunshine. pushing the car to the edge is hard, no matter what tire you use. and the tire of choice does not change how hard reaching that edge is, if you disagree, your not pushing the car to its edge, your just slow.

i can switch between tires of all kinds and after about 5 minutes of adjusting to the switch, i whoop ass.

i would like you to come race with me on racing soft tires around the ring. then you can judge the amount of skill i have in comparison to yourself.

and then, give me 5 minutes warmup, and i'll use your sports tire afterward.
.

He may be many things, but slow isn't one of them.