Real Guns

Discussion in 'The Rumble Strip' started by Calibretto, Nov 26, 2005.

  1. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    I went with this Blackout upper @Xavier2342

    [​IMG]
    $490 with discount code on opticsplanet. Still more than I wanted to pay, but Bushmaster's one of the brands I preferred in the price range(below $500). It's ready to fire, straight out of the box(just lube).

    I plan on moving the EOTech red dot to this .300 AAC Upper & tranferring the Burris scope/micro red dot combo to the stock S&W AR15/223 upper. Bushmaster 308, which has the Burris combo on it right now, I'll likely get a scope for in the future(rifle isn't in my rotation right now).

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  2. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    I totally forgot to post this. I wanted to show @Michael88 the local pricing of .22 WMR vs .357 awhile back:

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    Also, my Walmart did carry Blackout afterall @Xavier2342 , I missed it, because they stocked them in line with the 20-caliber ammo. Good prices, too. I saw same exact American Eagle ammo at sporting goods store the other day(didn't buy any, as their inventory was not customer friendly). They were $14.95 there, $12.94 at Walmart. I bought the four they had on the shelf.

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    I'll probably order this too online. Shipping is so high usually, but it's free shipping for this case.

    Other random ammo I've picked up over last couple of months:

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    5.56 for the price, others to play with. lol
     
  3. Michael88

    Michael88

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    Thanks! Yeah that pricing is way more reasonable, I have no clue who came up with the idea to price .22mag nearly as high as .357 here in Europe. 22wmr is also probably more popular here as it has been the traditional small game cartridge for fox and similarly sized critters, so its definitely not expensive due to low demand. There is tons of 22mag rifles floating around.

    Also quite surprisingly most of the ammo in your pics costs the same here in Europe. For some reason I thought ammo would be tons cheaper overseas but this does not seem to be the case. Oh well, .22lr is 2 bucks cheaper and your 22wmr does not seem to be made of solid gold. :idea:
     
  4. Xavier2342

    Xavier2342

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    a6m5 I'll have to check my local Walmart and Cabela's but those prices for .300 BLK aren't nearly as bad as I thought they would be. Have you received your .300 BLK upper yet?
     
  5. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    It is odd about the.22WMR prices over there. I also thought the pricing would be lower in the states. Pics are from Walmart, and they seem to be the cheapest ammunition dealer locally.
    They are shipping it out today. I had to give them my work address, because they weren’t able to ship to my mailing address(P.O. Box), and that cost couple of days.

    I also did order that case of Blackout from online store last night + Bravo company vertical foregrip from eBay.

    I might get these things sometime:

    [​IMG]

    Blackout Hollow Point.

    Edit: M16 isn't direct impingement & carbon's dry lube. I agree on the first point, I'll have to see the second point to believe it(15:00). :D

     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
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  6. Swagger897

    Swagger897 Premium

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    So apparently one of my neighbors has quite the gun collection unbeknownst to myself till today.

    I'll get the pictures on my laptop soon but for now two of them got my eye.

    http://www.icollector.com/Engraved-Greifelt-Combination-Over-Under-Shotgun-Rifle_i12221604

    https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/41980743_krupp-laufstahl-drilling-shotgun-16-ga-and-8x57

    Haven't gotten a clue as to what it is really. I know it has Krupp Stahl markings, with Kaiserslautern written on the left side of the shotgun barrel, and the right side is illegible. Ser # is 33253, featuring a crown above an N, with St.M.G. beside it. I believe it is 16Ga over, and 7.7 under (only 2 barrels, not the tripple config).

    Some severe pitting and rust is present, and the barrels have no blue left at all to them. The story was that it's a bring-back from a WW2 vet from within the family (that's not even the best family rifle they have). Above the fire mantle there is (what looks to me) like a trap-door/muzzle loader rifle, with documentation and pictures with family members holding it. That, plus a variant of a 1903 Springfield.

    I'll try to double post for the picture of the first combination gun, and see if anything comes out of it from other forums too. Definetly interested in finding out what it is exactly because I've yet to come across another on a quick google scan for the last hour or two..
     
  7. Swagger897

    Swagger897 Premium

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  8. Xavier2342

    Xavier2342

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    Swagger897 I don't know much about older guns but I appreciate them. What intrigues me the most about older firearms is their history. What purpose did the firearm serve? Who used it? Where was it used? What is the significance of the markings on the gun? It is always cool seeing guns that have been passed down from generation to generation. Nice find Swagger897 .

    My plans were slightly ruined this weekend due to unexpectedly having to shop for a new car. There was a gun show this weekend and a Steel Shoot at one of the local ranges that I could not attend. At the very least I was able to make it to the indoor range I currently have a membership to and rented one of these...

    20190120_130106.jpg

    Last year I had a chance to shoot one of these in pistol form with a SB Tactical brace (I can't remember the exact model) and actually liked it. It is such a soft shooter as expected from 9mm and I love the AR15 style controls. The only thing I did not like back then and still till this day is the price. Fast forward to today and the experience I had with this SBR (Short Barrel Rifle)... The gun was fun to shoot and I am glad that I had the opportunity to shoot this firearm. This was the first true SBR that I have ever fired but at the end of the day I still prefer my CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1 pistol and SBTEVO brace. If this firearm were mine I'd remove the vertical grip simply because I just don't like it. For me prefer the look and ergonomics of the factory handstop.
     
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  9. Michael88

    Michael88

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    What 300BLK barrel do you have? I'm asking because you definitely cannot shoot supersonic 115 grainers AND 205-220 grain subsonic through the same barrel. There is such a weight, length and speed difference between those two loads you need a barrel for each load. A barrel that shoots the supersonic standard 300BLK loads cannot stabilize the long slow subsonic, they will tumble and keyhole badly.

    Thats why you see dedicated subsonic 300BLK carbines, the have very fast twists to stabilize those long bullets, but they can only shoot the subs.
     
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  10. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    I only browsed about this & I was of the impression they can do both. This is the upper I ordered & received just now.

    I couldn’t legally shoot with suppressors anyway, but I’ll do more research when I get off work.

    Edit:

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    Edit2: @Michael88 I cannot find anything about the supersonic vs subsonic barrel except this ad by someone. It does make sense to me though, maybe I'm just not googling the right terms. Meanwhile, I'll try emailing Bushmaster & see if they can tell me.

    I lubed & installed the thing just now & so much for the quick swap on the uppers. I was bragging to my friends about how I'll be able to swap from .223 to Blackout, faster than you can load the magazine? It turns out that the alignment for the rear takedown pin must be off by a tenth of millimeter or something(can't see any misalignment with naked eye). I have to tap it with a punch & hammer. It loosened up somewhat after the tenth time, but it maybe a while before I'll be able to swap it out effortlessly without tools. :grumpy:

    Edit3:

    Here's a really good video. Thanks Michael. :tup:



    Edit4: Wow, even more education in the comment section.

    Jeffro Bodene - "First, if you think one revolution per inch twist rate is going to make a huge difference in whether a subsonic bullet stablizes or not...think again.

    The first barrel was a PSA 8.5 inch barrel shooting subsonics...8.5 inch. Although PSA is good for holiday sales on rifle parts I highly doubt their barrels are what you consider high quality or match grade. "Moparmadman" purchased a Noveske barrel which are a high quality, match grade barrel. I have been working with the 300 BLK for years and have tried more combinatons and wasted more money than I care to admit. Although the 300 BLK was designed for a 9 inch barrel I wouldn't go shorter than a 10 inch barrel. I also recommend a pistol length gas system no matter what the barrel lenght to ensure good cycling. My personal 300 BLK hunting rifle is a stainless steel, 16 inch, match grade AND a 1:10 twist, pistol length gas system with an adjustable gas block. I have shot everything from 110 gr supersonic to 208 gr subsonics without any issues and NO key-holes in the paper. I built this rifle for deer and hogs and had no intention of running subs.

    "Barndweller" stated "he got bullets that were .002 larger in diameter and his problems went away." Sounds like the barrel was not manufactured to specifications. I have sent my share of barrels back to the manufacturer because of poor quality. Also, "Berger Bullets" have a stability calculator on their website...you ought to check it out and enter various numbers; you will be surprised at what will and will not stablize. Also, do not forget a good trigger. A good barrel and a good trigger will make or break your rifle. In fact, there is no reason a 300BLK will not shoot sub-MOA accuracy all day long if it is set up properly with the right components.

    Shoot straight and be safe."

    Reply from poster - "First, thank you for commenting. I appreciate users sharing their experience, in fact that is why I made this video. I see you are talking from a hunting prospective, and I absolutely think that how you intend to use the 300 BLK is exactly what you need to know to make your decisions. Your statement of "I had no intention of running subs" says all that you need to know. Your rifle is set up how "you" needed it to be. That is one of the things that drew me to this round as it is very versatile.

    I was hoping, in my case, that It would be able to shoot anything and though it reasonably well, including subsonic projectiles. Speaking in general terms, to improve your stability you need to spin the bullets faster. When limiting the discussion to a specific projectile there are only 2 things that you can do to improve your stability, increase the twist rate, or increase the velocity. When trying to keep your round subsonic you basically have a ceiling of 1050 fps, leaving twist rate your only option left. One inch of twist increases your rotational velocity a little more than 14.2%, not exactly nothing, but you would hope not a life charger either.

    As "Bob Doughty" pointed out below a lot of manufacturers have stopped offering the 1:8 twist rate, most notable AAC. The 300 AAC Blackout was created by Advanced Armament Corporation in cooperation with Remington Defense. Yes originally it was the 300 Whisper etc. (I don't want to get into he whole history which anyone can look up) but it says a lot when they don't offer a 1:8 twist any longer.

    I know that there are a lot of different things that come into play, bearing surface, bullet length, however twist rate is important. Berger does have a stability calculator and it is based on the "miller twist rule" that I mention in the video. But, real life isn't always demonstrated perfectly in a online calculator. Note that the constant 30 is Miller's twist rule roughly approximating the velocity as 2800 ft/sec. Its not that the calculator is bad, it is based on stability of projectiles of a specific construction (basically a football) in supersonic flight.

    I also agree as well that probably the PSA barrel is not a "match" barrel, but I have had excellent luck with PSA before and I will gladly buy from them again. PSA does not make their own barrels, the buy them, and it may be possible to return mine if I like, but frankly it shoots super sonic rounds just fine.

    Please don't think that I am trying to fight, I just think that a lot of peoples ideal set up for using this as a "fun round" is on a SBR suppressed as a subsonic. Doing the "proper" paperwork requires $400 to the ATF before you start buying parts, which all of us would gladly put into our rifles, but sometimes we skimp on the barrel (or some other component) cause that's what we have. I know that there are 1:8 twists that will do just fine but if you are limiting yourself to a budget barrel which some of us do, bet on a 1:7 before you bet on a 1:8 if you want to run subsonic velocity.

    Good groups to you."
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
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  11. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    I received the reply from Bushmaster:

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    From what I read last night, I got the impression that twist rate certainly affects performance between sub/supersonic rounds, and it seemed to be more crucial for AR’s with shorter barrels? I didn’t see see much input from full legal length AR’s, if at all.

    Since I’m just a plinker with this upper, I’m satisfied with the answer from Bushmaster for now.

    Edit: Took the Blackout out today. It was perfect. I realize it's supposed to have more recoil, but I didn't even notice it.

    #gtp.jpg
    Installed EOTech from the stock upper of the M&P 15 Sport 2. Sweet shooter. Love this caliber & the Bushmaster upper. I just wish it fit the M&P lower better.

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    I robbed the EOTech from the M&P, I robbed the Burris scope/red dot combo from the Bushmaster 308 MOE for the M&P. :p Actually looks quite good, shot really well with it.

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    Also tested out the Okay Surefeed aluminum magazines. Looked good, performed perfectly. Love these things. I have more pics on my blog.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
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  12. phillkillv2

    phillkillv2

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    ****. The job I am quitting just introduced discounts for EOTech, Aimpoint, and a ton of high-end ammunition companies, as well as some other very formidable companies. They're all 40% or higher discounts, but I'm am not a firearm owner, yet.

    Laugh at me, but I have my eyes on a rather expensive handgun(s): H&K Mark 23 - Sig Sauer P226. Those two are my favorite handguns, as well as a few from CZ and other comparable companies. I'm going to be importing a Lancer Evolution II from Japan in the coming months, so I thought that I would pair the 'new' car with a equally exquisite firearm.

    I know the Mark 23 isn't concealed carry material, but I love the thought of a hard-hitting, long slide durable and reputable legend. If I do get the Mark 23, it will mainly be kept in home and used at the range.

    Any thoughts on these? If you have any cheaper, yet still amazing variants in mind, let me know.

    Seems they have some .22s by Crosman on discount as well. They had Precision Firearms at one point.
    [​IMG]

    Also, if any of you are interested, maybe I can score you a deal on a Fobus Holster or Talon Grips. Send me a PM if you'd like.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  13. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    I think that’s perfectly fine. All reputable manufacturers.

    Mark 23 I’d have no use for(have USP .45, even that I find huge), but I’ve always liked P226. :drool: Personally I like more compact handguns. Since I want .45ACP + higher capacity, search for my go-to handgun has proved challenging. :lol:

    Right now, my outside handgun is Glock 19(9mm), home defense is HK USP loaded with hollow point .45ACP.
     
  14. Xavier2342

    Xavier2342

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    a6m5 have you made a decision on an optic for your Bushmaster .308? As I was watching this video last week, I thought it would be something you might be interested in.



    phillkillv2 you've got some expensive taste and there is nothing wrong with that. I just looked at prices for the HK Mark 23 and needless to say :eek:...lol... To add to the list of expensive guns have you considered the FNH FNX-45 Tactical? This variant comes with raised iron sights and a threaded barrel, whereas the non-tactical variant does not come with equipped with any of these features.

    I usually don't rent guns but the range I am currently a member of allows free gun rentals but you have to purchase their ammo. One of the things I have been doing lately is renting guns I may be interested in amd this past weekend I rented a Gen 5 Glock 19 MOS and a FN 509 Tactical. Both firearms were equipped with Trijicon RMR red dot sights and they were both fairly fun to shoot. I've been interested in trying out a firearm from the Glock MOS lineup and the 19 is what was available to rent at my range. I really like the grip texture of Gen 5 Glocks but I felt as though that grip on the G19 was a little too short for me. The FN 509 Tactical if I'm not mistaking was also equipped with an Apex trigger. It took a some time to get adjusted to the flat-faced trigger but overall it was a fun gun to shoot. After shooting both of these firearms one question I am left with is at what distance should red dot sights on handguns be sighted at?

    20190201_131143.jpg

    Also if you guys come across any handguns that fit the following criteria please share. Here is what I am looking for: double/single action, 9mm, 3.8 - 4.0 inch barrel, safety/decocker, full size textured grip and atleast 17+1 or better capacity.
     
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  15. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    Thanks man, I appreciate it. I'm not sure when I'll get around to the scope, but this is a very interesting video. :tup:

    I found the 3:00 mark of the video quite shocking:

    :eek: *For me, it was much easier to understand from the video. lol
     
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  16. Brett

    Brett Premium

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    I do not have this experience with an ACOG--I have only looked through a few ACOGs, but never shot with one--but I have tried it with my Aimpoint and have heard it is also possible with an ACOG. I placed the front lens cover back on the sight covering the front lens, while leaving the rear one off. With the red dot on, my brain was able to superimpose the dot on target with both eyes open.
     
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  17. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    Always something new I want try out. :D

    Today, I saw ACOG on sale for $849(opticsplanet & Amazon). I have cash back feature on new 0% credit card that would give $200 back on top of it. Maybe the blackout upper I just got was poor timing. I justified that spending pretty fast, but I have hard time giving myself a green light on another $649 right now, even if it’s over 50% off. :(
     
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  18. Xavier2342

    Xavier2342

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    Don't worry, there will be another sale in the future or you just might find a good deal on eBay when you're ready to make the purchase. :tup:
     
  19. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    Thanks. :tup: So many great options out there, I'll take my time.

    This "ACOG" on eBay is pure gold though.

    "Trijicon ACOG 4x32 BAC Rifle Scope with red reticle. Condition is New.

    Never bothered to replace my Eotech. Don't really need it--it literally just sits in the box. Probably a clone, but the quality is excellent and ot works great."


    He's asking for $399 +$15 shipping for this thing. eBay is filled with knockoff fake ACOGs for under $100 new? $399.... :lol:
     
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  20. Xavier2342

    Xavier2342

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    A really good friend of mine has one of these on his AR. He said the glass quality isn't as good as a real Trijicon ACOG. Other than that he has absolutely no complaints about it.
     
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  21. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    I ended up reporting that listing. I couldn’t stand the thought of somebody falling for it when you can buy knockoffs all day long for $90 or less. :crazy:
     
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  22. Xavier2342

    Xavier2342

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    Good man :cheers:
     
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  23. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    One of my friends bought Magpul drum the other day(60rds?). I just heard from another guy about the 40rd PMAGs he bought. I had either never heard of it, or forgot that such a magazine existed. I guess I'll try one. I also like the looks of the OK aluminum mags, so I plan on getting a couple more.

    I was on the fence before on the drum, but man, if/when the Government bans it, throwing away $100+ would be little tough for me. :nervous:

    Speaking of bans, I just learned about binary triggers(fires on a pull, again on the release). Military Arms Channel, I think his name's Tim, he was rapid firing it. I want one so bad, but I'm sure if it's not banned already, it'll be banned by the current Congress. :( From very little I read, you intall the binary trigger system + full automatic bolt carrier group? I wish the Second Amendment allowed automatic guns already, but I understand with all the crazies & criminals on the streets + political climate today we'll never see the day. *shrug*
    Well, eBay never took it down & somebody bought it. :crazy::lol: Then I received automatic notification that seller relisted it(trying to get me to buy it lol), so I reported it again. Somebody bought that, too. :lol:

    I just checked his feedback & it seems that he earned a negative feedback. New, identical knockoffs are going for under $100 on eBay, he sold them for 3 to 4 times that, on a used one(twice). Other people's kids.....
     
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  24. Xavier2342

    Xavier2342

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    a6m5 I purchased a few 40-round PMags from a local Gun Show years ago but don't use them that often. Even though I live in a "free" State, I still load my higher capacity magazines to 10 rounds at the gun range so that do not go through all of my ammo in short period of time. I love everything about the D-60 except the price. I get that it is significantly cheaper than the Xproducts drum but I just can't bring myself to spend $100+ (USD) for one. If I was a "professional door kicker" that would be a different story. But for my needs I'm comfortable with a few 30 or 40-round magazines. With that being said, I still might get a D-60 in the future, but I am just going to wait to find a good sale.

    As far as Binary triggers go ...lol... They've been out for years and if I'm not mistaking are still legal to own in states like California and New York right?

    Anybody do anything gun related this weekend? I got a chance to shoot a friend's Mossberg Shockwave chambered in 12 gauge. Minishell ammo is a must have for something like this gun. The recoil is very manageable with 1 3/4" buckshot or #7 1/2 (birdshot) ammo. We also shot a box of 2 3/4" birdshot ammo with it and although the recoil was manageable, it isn't something I would want to do continuously unless I am firing from the hip or with a brace.
     
  25. Brett

    Brett Premium

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    Magpul has seemingly done a good job with the D60, except the price. I have a hard time dropping that much money on a magazine, especially when I can buy a dozen or more 30 rounders for the same price. If I were to every buy one, then I would only buy one. Ian and Karl at InRange ran a D60 in some matches. They would start a round with a D60 and then switch to 30 rounders because trying to store a D60 on person can be a challenge.

    A binary trigger would be fun to play around with for a little while. I would not really want to own one. They are expensive. I also do not want to learn the manual of arms with the binary function.

    EDIT: In watching another MAC video where he is using a binary trigger, he was able to override the trigger and cause a stoppage. That is another reason I do not want to mess with one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  26. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    It’s a wonder how its existence eluded me all this time. :eek:
    Yeah, 40rd sounds like a excellent compromise considering the price vs capacity. :tup:
    I’ll have to do research. This is the first time I’ve been intrigued by aftermarket triggers.
    Awesome. Have you had any issues with minishells though? One time I’ve seen it on YouTube, I think in a semi-auto, it was jamming quite a bit.
    Yeah, looks like we all agree on why we don’t own one. More & more 40rd magazines sounds attractive.
    3 words: Tactical diaper bag.
    I can justify the cost if they perform consistently, but I thought they are pretty simple to operate? I probably missed something.....
    You guys are succeeding at saving me some money....... :D:tup:
     
  27. Brett

    Brett Premium

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    They are easy to operate. Flip the selector to binary, pull the trigger, let go, and two rounds are fired. If I remember correctly, then the weapon can be put on safe or semi after the initial trigger pull and letting the trigger out will not fire the second round. I do not want to mess with that. I also want to know that one pull equals one bullet or one pull equals many bullets until let go.

    Binary triggers just seem like a novelty to simulate full auto. That would make them an expensive novelty. I would rather spend the money on a Geissele trigger and use the leftover money on ammunition to practice.
     
  28. Xavier2342

    Xavier2342

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    Guys I just watched a more recent video about the Franklin Armory Gen 3 binary trigger. I'm not gonna lie, if I were building a fun gun with a huge budget I would get one. The binary trigger I shot with years ago did not have a select fire feature. All you had was Safe and Binary versus the newer version that gives you Safe, Semi and Binary.

    a6m5 don't feel bad about not knowing about Magpul's 40-round magazine. If I wasn't at the gun show on the day I purchased mine I would not have known about them either. I honestly do not recall ever seeing them at any of the local sporting good stores but it has been awhile since I've genuinely paid attention to them. The only other time I can recall seeing them more often was when I began to look into 3-gun equipment in hopes of someday participating in a match for fun.

    As for the minishells, I've had feeding issues due to the ammo being so short. On my friend's Shockwave he purchased an adapter that fits into the receiver and allows him to use minishell ammo without any problems. The adapter could be removed without any tools in a matter of a few seconds if he wants to shoot full size shells. The other issue I can foresee someone having with this ammo in a semi-auto platform is the ammo not having enough velocity to cycle gun. If I'm not mistaking I think the general rule of thumb for semi-auto shotguns is to use ammo that has a velocity of at least 1,300 feet per second.
     
  29. a6m5

    a6m5 Premium

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    Edit: After rebate, it's around $5 a box(20rds).

    Capture.JPG

    I bought the 420rd case last time(w/free ammo can), but can't beat 25 cents per round on brass, let alone green tip.

    I wish it was bunch of bullets, but my understanding is it's one bullet per pull, one bullet per release.
    This is a semi-automatic trigger, right? Just high-end?
    When I think about select fire ownership

    [​IMG]

    If I could get some kind of practical rapid fire upgrade, sure not be banned in whatever restriction congress come up with, I would be so onboard. :p
    I'm getting at least one. Now, this mag would qualify as "high capacity" for real. :lol:
    Guns are great hobby, but elevating your skill at it would be pretty awesome. You should totally do it. :tup:
    Ah, I forgot about cycling. I could be mistaken about the semi-auto, that would be horrible idea for youtube video & I kinda doubt they even entertain the idea(I would, but I'm dumb lol). I didn't know there was a adapter for it. Now, that would be perfect for compact shotgun. :tup:
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  30. Brett

    Brett Premium

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    $0.25 per round on brass is tough to beat.

    That is correct: one bullet on the pull and one on the release. Do it fast enough and it can simulate full auto.

    Yes and yes. I have a Geissele trigger pack and trigger bow in my Tavor. Both are fantastic. In my AR build, I have a LaRue trigger. It is also great. I probably would have a Geissele in the AR build also, but LaRue had/has their MBT on a great sale.
     
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