Real Guns
- Thread starter Calibretto
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- 2,117
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
Here are some firearms I think you might be interested in. I hope this helps.
Springfield XD-M Elite Compact
https://www.gunbuyer.com/catalog/pr...-xd-m-elite-compact-9mm-3-8-14-1-xdme9389cbhc/
Smith & Wesson M&P9 M2.0 Compact
https://www.kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=125170&avad=211021_a1d2b7a99
FN FNS-9C Compact
https://www.impactguns.com/semi-aut...manual-safety-17rd-845737004323-66719/#apps47
Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Shield M2.0
https://palmettostatearmory.com/s-w...Avantlink&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=cl
Arex Delta 9mm
https://www.kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=156900&avad=211021_c1d2b9df5
Canik TP9SF Elite
https://www.kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=142597&avad=211021_a1d2b75d5
- 5,137
- Nicest part of hell
I bought a belt, a Glock holster and 2 Glock magazine holders. I want to use it on my shooting range to practice some defensive shooting. Quick drawing and target acquisition, magazine changes etc. at ranges of 15 meters and less. Carrying* is basically not allowed in my country so this is just for pure fun at the range - and I think its a neat skill to have.
(* not that this setup would be practical for carry)
(* not that this setup would be practical for carry)
- 2,117
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
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This is really all you need to see about that gun, honestly:
I also got my hands on an AR-15, another AK of the same make as the last one (those are VRSA or something? The wood forearm and stock feel kinda flimsy for an AK...), a Glock 21 in .45 and an H&K 9mm whose name I forget now. The H&K had a lever for the mag instead of a button if that helps.
Going back in two days to shoot their Barrett M99.
Edit: The AK is a VSKA. My bad.
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- 5,342
- Ohio
00 Buckshot Flightcontrol Club
I’m tactical.
I’m tactical.
- 2,117
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- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
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Range 129 in Absecon, NJ!
- 5,342
- Ohio
4 Buck action
54 pellets! .24 diameter
54 pellets! .24 diameter
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- 2,117
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
Last year I decided to pursue my goal of hitting a target 1,000 yards away. For the task I purchased a Savage 110 Tactical with a 24" barrel chambered in .308 Win. The Savage did its job and I could always purchase an EGW 40 MOA picatinny scope mount to help me shoot further. But I also wish I would have purchased this rifle chambered in 6.5 Creedmooror or .300 Win Mag for better ballistics.
In the past few weeks my buddy Don and I have attempted shots at 1,401 yards and 1,509 yards. These distances were Google Maps confirmed because neither one of our rangefinders (Bushnell Nitro 1800 and Bushnell Elite 1 Mile) were able to pickup my 32" full-size IPSC target at these distances. Don was successful at making hits at both distances. As for myself, I attempted 1,401 yards with my rifle and was unsuccessful. I ran out of mechanical elevation on my scope because I only had 40 MOA (after 100 yard zero) but needed 85 MOA. So I maxed out my mechanical elevation and tried to compensate with my reticle (pic below) and was unsuccessful. However, I was successful at 1,509 yards with Don's Armalite AR-30 chambered in .300 Win Mag.
As I think back to last year, I never imagined that I would be shooting at these distances. When we first began our pursuit, Don use to think 1,000 yards was too ambitious. In the next few days we're going to scout for a safe location to shoot 1,760 yards. This is Don's idea and we'll be using his .300 Win Mag.
I know how you feel brother. My buddies and I were supposed to compete in a USPSA match tonight. We were all looking forward to competing since we last competed in March. One of my friends was looking forward to competing with his Sig Sauer P320 X5 Legion; and I was looking forward to using my PCC. Well we found out roughly 3-hours prior that the match got canceled. I'm so bummed out right now but fortunately there will be another match next week.
In the past few weeks my buddy Don and I have attempted shots at 1,401 yards and 1,509 yards. These distances were Google Maps confirmed because neither one of our rangefinders (Bushnell Nitro 1800 and Bushnell Elite 1 Mile) were able to pickup my 32" full-size IPSC target at these distances. Don was successful at making hits at both distances. As for myself, I attempted 1,401 yards with my rifle and was unsuccessful. I ran out of mechanical elevation on my scope because I only had 40 MOA (after 100 yard zero) but needed 85 MOA. So I maxed out my mechanical elevation and tried to compensate with my reticle (pic below) and was unsuccessful. However, I was successful at 1,509 yards with Don's Armalite AR-30 chambered in .300 Win Mag.
As I think back to last year, I never imagined that I would be shooting at these distances. When we first began our pursuit, Don use to think 1,000 yards was too ambitious. In the next few days we're going to scout for a safe location to shoot 1,760 yards. This is Don's idea and we'll be using his .300 Win Mag.
Just decided not to go to the shooting range due to the extreme surge in Covid cases. Me sad.
I know how you feel brother. My buddies and I were supposed to compete in a USPSA match tonight. We were all looking forward to competing since we last competed in March. One of my friends was looking forward to competing with his Sig Sauer P320 X5 Legion; and I was looking forward to using my PCC. Well we found out roughly 3-hours prior that the match got canceled. I'm so bummed out right now but fortunately there will be another match next week.
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- 5,137
- Nicest part of hell
6.5's difference in ballistics is not so significant compared with a good .308, run the numbers in the calculator, there is a lot of hype involved. And don't forget, the 6.5 is a barrel burner, lots of powder and higher pressure through a small bore, that gets you approx 1300 to 1500 shots of usable sub-moa accuracy, then you have to rebarrel. The .300 Winchester Magnum gets you about the same barrel life but with, this time, noticeably better ballistics, same with the .338 Lapua Mag.
Yes it does have more recoil, but with a good brake and a heavy rifle the recoil becomes less than .308. Only downside compared with the 6.5 is that its a bit more expensive.
Also, besides the 20 or 40 MOA scope mount, you can also get a Horus scope with the H37 reticle. That gives you great holdover options, it is a popular ultra long range scope.
Personally, I would go with a .280 Remington, that is a 30-06 necked down to 7mm. While it does not reach quite the ballistics of the .300, it still shoots crazy high BC bullets ( .690-.700 @ 175 grains) at respectable velocities of around 2750fps. That way the the cartridge is not such a barrel burner (people say it has a 2500-3000 round barrel life) and still shoots a bit better than .308 and even 6.5.
I'd put that in a 30'' shilen match barrel with a 1:7.5 twist. One day I have money I will get a me a build in that caliber.
.280:
6.5 Creedmoor
And for comparison sake, .308 with a run off the mill 168 grain BTHP:
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- 2,117
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
Just decided not to go to the shooting range due to the extreme surge in Covid cases. Me sad.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of Covid precautions does your local range have in place? I ask this because I think you are in a better situation than most of us (in this thread) since you're able to reload your own ammo. Both of the local ranges I frequently visit require face masks to be worn at all times. The outdoor range now requires a reservation, 2 people per table (must be from same household) and one unoccupied lane between each table to promote social distancing. Sadly, at this range $7 use to allowed you to shoot there ALL DAY long. But due to Covid and the interest of fairness for all visitors, you're now only allowed to shoot for 90 mins, unless you reserve two 90 mins slots for $14. The indoor range on the other hand already has partitions between each lane. But with this lane being so busy, I have to make my reservation a week in advance. As opposed to being able to call and reserve a lane 2-hours in advance. Nonetheless hang in there brother, this is only temporary. Besides, now is the perfect time to get comfortable shooting while wearing a shemagh or balaclava (which ever one makes you feel more tacticool)...lol
6.5's difference in ballistics is not so significant compared with a good .308, run the numbers in the calculator, there is a lot of hype involved. And don't forget, the 6.5 is a barrel burner, lots of powder and higher pressure through a small bore, that gets you approx 1300 to 1500 shots of usable sub-moa accuracy, then you have to rebarrel. The .300 Winchester Magnum gets you about the same barrel life but with, this time, noticeably better ballistics, same with the .338 Lapua Mag.
Yes it does have more recoil, but with a good brake and a heavy rifle the recoil becomes less than .308. Only downside compared with the 6.5 is that its a bit more expensive.
Also, besides the 20 or 40 MOA scope mount, you can also get a Horus scope with the H37 reticle. That gives you great holdover options, it is a popular ultra long range scope.
Personally, I would go with a .280 Remington, that is a 30-06 necked down to 7mm. While it does not reach quite the ballistics of the .300, it still shoots crazy high BC bullets ( .690-.700 @ 175 grains) at respectable velocities of around 2750fps. That way the the cartridge is not such a barrel burner (people say it has a 2500-3000 round barrel life) and still shoots a bit better than .308 and even 6.5.
I'd put that in a 30'' shilen match barrel with a 1:7.5 twist. One day I have money I will get a me a build in that caliber.
.280:
6.5 Creedmoor
And for comparison sake, .308 with a run off the mill 168 grain BTHP:
I know you've stated multiple times in the past that there is no significant ballistics difference between the .308 Win and 6.5 CM. But even as I look at the ballistics data you posted, I like only having to dial 48.6 MOA for 1,300 yards with the 6.5 CM versus 67.6 MOA with the .308 Win. For .308 Win I like how well the 185 gr Berger Jugernaught OTM from Federal performs at 1,000 yards. But when we go beyond that distance and I compare it to the 215 gr Berger Hybrid .300 Win Mag (G1 BC .691) from Federal and 147 gr ELD Match 6.5 CM (G1 BC .697) from Hornady that my buddies shoot; I kind of wish I had one of those calibers instead.
I have no personal experience with the Horus H37 reticle but I like the way it looks. What I like most about that reticle are the windage markings. But the concern I have with that reticle in a FFP or SFP scope is how much of the reticle is visible at 20x or more zoom? Plus if I am not mistaking, in a SFP scope the subtensions of that reticle are only true at whatever the max power (zoom) is of that particular scope.
I am glad that we're having this conversation and I can't thank you enough for all the info you've shared with us. The ballistics data you posted for the .280 Remington, is that one of your custom loads or is that factory ammo? If I could find this ammo with those ballistics locally or online, I'd gladly take this over a .300 Win Mag or 6.5 CM. What do you think about the 6.5 PRC and .300 PRC?
BobK
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- Massachusetts, USA
I have learned a new word today. 👍
- 5,137
- Nicest part of hell
Currently it does not have any safety precautions whatsoever.
There is a theoretical rule to wear masks, but the owner of the range and me are the only people wearing them, nobody else wears any kind of protection. For a short period of time we had to make reservations, and during that time only members of the range could shoot (no guests), but that was dropped quickly, now people come and go as it pleases them.
I hate to say it because I have many friends at the range, but they all are ultra-conservatives. They all either believe the virus is conspiracy, it does not exist, its no worse than the flu or they go into total denial. I'm not mad at them, they are free to have their own opinions, but their actions is what makes me stay away from the range. We have the worst surge of new infections right now, almost 2100 new cases per day, that is a lot for such a small country like Austria, there is only 8 million people here.
I'm actually assigned to range officer duties next week but I am not going to attend.
Well, there is some but I don't think its all that significant. It has a little less drop, the thing is you can easily dial that in in your scope and you are good to go. Both cartridges are still super sonic at 1000. IMO people get too hung up on trajectory, remember that trajectory has little to do with accuracy if you know how to compensate for it. And if there is wind that gets you into trouble with .308 you wont have a great day with the 6.5CM either, then you need way more horsepower.
And that little improvement in trajectory is most often bought in blood so to speak.
Beyond 1000yds is definitely not .308 nor 6.5CM territory, that is big magnum territory. If you are planning on shooting beyond 1000 on a regular basis you need a 300WM with a 26''+ barrel or a .338 Lapua Magnum, maybe a 7mm ultra magnum but that one eats barrels for breakfast. Or a .416 if you can afford it. With those calibers its a totally different game altogether.
That only comes into affect if you go below max magnification, but you wont do that at 1000yds shooting. You'd only have to dial it down at 100 meters maybe.
I have no personal experience with that particular scope either but I do know its a very popular scope among long range target shooters and it might be worth checking out.
The .280 Remington I mentioned is a load published by Vihtavuori, but since they have to stick to the cartridge specs you can definitely increase the OAL of the cartridge and get more out of it. A friend of mine has a .280 and he uses it for 1000 meters, he drives Hornady 180 grain ELD's ( BC of .796 !!) to 2850 fps. Hot load! Run those numbers!
In general I'm a HUGE fan of the 7mm projectiles, just browse them for a bit, they have magnificent BC's and there are great 7mm cartridges with little recoil. They are not magic bullets and no, they won't outperform .300WM or .338, but all things considered they are an extremely elegant solution for most long range work, their efficiency is so high.
Problem is, I don't know if there are any factory target rifles chambered in .280. You probably would have to get a 30-06 Remington 700 or Savage and re-barrel it to 280. If you do, get a 30'' instead of a 26'' barrel for another 50-70 fps more.
By the way, you should totally start reloading your own ammunition. If you shoot long range the ability to make your own ammunition and tune it to your rifle opens a door to a whole new world. I'm still mad at myself for not having started earlier - and so will you!
Some dudes shooting .50BMG, .338LM, .26Nos and .280 Remington at 1000 and 1500. The rifle in the maple stock appears to be the 280. .280 1500yd hit at 6:00.
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- 2,117
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
@Michael88 I'm sorry to hear about the increase in Covid cases you guys are currently experiencing. Given the lack of precautions being taking been some visitors, I don't blame you for choosing to avoid the range for the time being.
In regards to the 280 Rem, I haven't ran the ballistics data yet. But those numbers you posted are very impressive. I just found out that Hornady has a 190 gr A-Tip Match bullet with a BC of .838 (G1). Do you have any more info about the load your buddy uses? How does his barrel life compare to that of a 300 Win Mag?
Let's say you want to build a 280 Rem bolt-action with a detachable magazine for less than $1,200 USD. First and foremost is it possible to do this without including the cost of a decent scope and rings? Secondly, what components would you choose?
Lastly, if I wanted to reload a .308 Win that performs equally as good or better than the Federal 185 gr Berger Jugernaught OTM I currently shoot. What would you recommend? Bear in mind my Savage 110 has a 24" heavy barrel with a 1:10 barrel twist. Looking at the .30 Cal bullets Hornady currently offers, this could be very interesting.
In regards to the 280 Rem, I haven't ran the ballistics data yet. But those numbers you posted are very impressive. I just found out that Hornady has a 190 gr A-Tip Match bullet with a BC of .838 (G1). Do you have any more info about the load your buddy uses? How does his barrel life compare to that of a 300 Win Mag?
Let's say you want to build a 280 Rem bolt-action with a detachable magazine for less than $1,200 USD. First and foremost is it possible to do this without including the cost of a decent scope and rings? Secondly, what components would you choose?
Lastly, if I wanted to reload a .308 Win that performs equally as good or better than the Federal 185 gr Berger Jugernaught OTM I currently shoot. What would you recommend? Bear in mind my Savage 110 has a 24" heavy barrel with a 1:10 barrel twist. Looking at the .30 Cal bullets Hornady currently offers, this could be very interesting.
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I completed my gun safety course! 
First step to getting an LTC. Next up, I'm going to apply for the LTC per my state's requirements and take two additional courses - one for defensive shooting/proper use of force and carrying, and one that'll let me get hands on experience with as many handguns as I can so I can decide what to go buy.
First step to getting an LTC. Next up, I'm going to apply for the LTC per my state's requirements and take two additional courses - one for defensive shooting/proper use of force and carrying, and one that'll let me get hands on experience with as many handguns as I can so I can decide what to go buy.
- 2,117
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
I completed my gun safety course!
That's awesome, time wise how long will it take to those course?
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I might be able to get to them by month's end. My dad and I are working out the logistics of it right now.
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- Nicest part of hell
While the 190 grain 7mm has an incredible BC I think this is reaching the point of diminishing returns for a 280. I looked around for .280 load data for 190 grain bullets in general and the few I found were only in the 2400fps range max. I think you would get a better trajectory with a 175 grain going much faster, despite the lower BC. I think the 190 grain makes more sense in a 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum, which can launch it at 2700fps. Which sounds amazing, and it is ballistically, but the 7mm RUM is a prime example for a barrel burner.
I don't know if anyone makes detachable box magazines for the 30-06 family of cartridges, if that's a priority you have to go with .308, .300WM or .338, Accuracy International sells box mags for those.
As for building a 280, I can tell you how I would do it: I'd get me a used Remington 700 or Savage in 30-06, preferably one with a screwed up barrel and sucky stock so it is cheap, only the action has to be sound. Realistically you could get one for 350 bucks, maybe even with a picatinny rail already installed. Go to a competent gunsmith and let him order a .280 match barrel in the configuration you like, and let him install it. That's probably 750 bucks or so. Then, depending of what you can salvage from the used rifle, get a stock and trigger you like. Done. The basics should be do-able under 1200, the rest depends on the stock and trigger of course.
That's easy, get the 185 grain Berger bullets, proper match grade cases and check how long you can make the cartridge without touching the rifling. You will see you can set the the bullet out MUCH further than they do with the factory spec ammo. Decreasing free flight of the bullet will always increase accuracy and seating the bullet out more increases the case capacity so you can fit a little more powder into the case so you can get better velocities. Its a win/win scenario.
I had a .300 WinMag 110BA Savage which I shot with hot 240 grain SMK loads, suddenly after 1200 shots the barrel was producing a flyer every now and then ruining my groups. When I inspected the throat of the barrel it looked totally frosted. That's firecracking, the barrel was done.
But there is a great tool that predicts accurate barrel life, meaning how many shots it can take before it starts to lose accuracy and becomes unusable for long range work.
https://pierrevanderwalt.com/barrel-life-calculator/
Use this for load data https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/rifle-reloading:
That way you can experiment a lot. You will see that certain loads / powders will cut the barrel life in HALF. Powder & pressure has a lot to do with the barrel life. The 300 WinMag ''usually'' has an accurate barrel life of about 1200 to 1500, but with very large loads with aggressive powder you can drop it down to 1000 easily. But you can also use mild loads and cooler powders to extend it up to nearly 2000. Reloading can be very rewarding.
Same with the .280. It generally has a barrel life of about 2200-2500, I am certain you can get it down to 1300 or with certain powders extend its life to 2800+.
Try powders like the N560 and compare it with loads using N165. You will see a major difference. N560 is very hot and very abrasive, and it has added chemicals to make it more powerful. It will yield the best results in ballistics, but it will do so at a high price.
Its like increasing Turbo pressure and running it super rich, you will get tons more power down the straight but you will blow the cylinder gasket much sooner and you will have to rebuild the engine after each season.
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- 2,117
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
After going on a several month hiatus due to Covid, my buddies and I finally competed in a USPSA match. This was my first match with the PCC and I know understand why this division is currently the fastest growing division in PCC. Mistakes were made in my part but man it was such a blast (no pun intended) complete the stages with a PCC instead of a handgun. I hope I can do one more USPSA match before the end of the year.
@Michael88 I've gotta figure out a way to save your post for future reference. That information is gold and I hope some day try to build a .280 Rem and reload some of that ammo.
@Michael88 I've gotta figure out a way to save your post for future reference. That information is gold and I hope some day try to build a .280 Rem and reload some of that ammo.
