Round 2 Cancellation Notice

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scca_ziptie
On their third attempt they realized(unfortunately) that the majority of the competitors in the United States have your mental approach to this contest, hence the three attempts to "fix" the DQ rules. I could care less what any of the other competitors think about my lap times, but at the end of the day you have to live with yourself. It would seem that Sony/PD also realize they have to "live with themselves" and are now "child proofing" the future course(s).

They are fixing the issue(s) and now it will be much more like a "traditional" on track competition. ----> Maintain a wheel on the racing surface at all times and no heavy impacts during the lap. 👍 👍 👍
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I never cut Indy or wall bounced at Madrid. If you're saying the majority want to win or do their best then you'd be right. It's the whole point in joining the competition. I suppose you join competitions to lose. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be 1 spot higher than 82nd in round 1 because just being there is good enough for you.

GTMotion, Joe should join the cheaters because he wouldn't get DQ'ed, as we have seen. Some guy here just mentioned he waited for something to be done about round 1 and was outside the top 128. That's Joe waiting on his ass and getting butt rapped for not doing what he had to. I completely understand how it's a crappy situation to be in though. I also hope they fix it for round 3 so we don't have to deal with it.
 
xe2bls
I never cut Indy or wall bounced at Madrid. If you're saying the majority want to win or do their best then you'd be right. It's the whole point in joining the competition. I suppose you join competitions to lose. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be 1 spot higher than 82nd in round 1 because just being there is good enough for you.

GTMotion, Joe should join the cheaters because he wouldn't get DQ'ed, as we have seen. Some guy here just mentioned he waited for something to be done about round 1 and was outside the top 128. That's Joe waiting on his ass and getting butt rapped for not doing what he had to. I completely understand how it's a crappy situation to be in though. I also hope they fix it for round 3 so we don't have to deal with it.
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I sandbagged round 1 for sure. Did the "minimum" to make it through to Round 2. Gave some "effort" during round 2 but with all the course changes that took place, I never drove a circuit during round 2 for more than 20 minutes. Total. Your statement was kind of correct, was just aiming to move onto round 2, didn't care about being in the "top." A DFGT wheel didn't really interest me enough to put that much "work" in that early, as I run with a G27 so I didn't feel like down grading or selling.

And just "making Round 2" isn't what I care about, I want to be a race car driver also and so far haven't had to deviate at all, including Round 1 to advance. And yes, if I was bumped because I was too slow without deviating I would have been able to accept that. Thankfully I was able to move ahead without leaving the circuit.
 
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Z1NONLY
That's just it. There is no advantage to any exploit that is broadcast to the world and easily duplicated by everyone.

How can you not comprehend this?

Nothing is gained by the exploit over other drivers. However, failure to get around the track as fast as the game allows is a sure way to lose.

No gain from the action. Big cost of inaction.

This is where you are wrong again. Everyone "sees" the exploits. Where do you think the vids came from?

In my OP I pointed out both of these facts and you seem to have missed them both.


Demanding human discretion, either in game play or post game play judgment, is begging for a whole new set of ethical problems.

Mainly this; Can't beat the other guy? Just "protest him." Rather than let a software system that is 100% objective and consistent, dicide what is legal and what's not, go cry to humans.

I value consistency in both rules and ethics.

The software needs fixing but the cry for human review at this stage is asking for trouble.
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So if you see me steal $100 from an ATM by exploiting a flaw in the security system it's perfectly ethical as long as I show you how to do it?
 
mcswrks
Complaining and arguing with everyone on this board to try and justify your "feelings" isnt accomplishing much.
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It looks like I was one of the few people not complaining.

I thought PD killed the Indy track to save face, but once the eiffel track got killed, (with no embarrasing vid out there) I knew someone, somewhere was just compalining.....a lot. That's when I did a little research and found this forum.

Get a grip, man. Make it to Orlando, or don't.
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As someone who went through the entire first round using "auto" and only found the E-brake last Saturday, I'd say my chances of getting into the top 8 are < 30%.

But I will try anyway, becase a small chance is still a chance.
 
xe2bls
Oh wow :lol:

"I want to be a race car driver. " I'm sure they will want people who does "just" enough work to get by. Good luck.
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Listen "Fix," the minimum was done because I was actually "training" to lose some weight and shape up a bit and because I was confident enough that my time wouldn't be bumped out of the top 128. You can whip up the smarty comments all you want, good luck.
 
Listen "Zip", you can not pay attention and come in here with false information all you want. Good day! :lol:
 
Dr_Watson
So if you see me steal $100 from an ATM by exploiting a flaw in the security system it's perfectly ethical as long as I show you how to do it?
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Touching a cone is all that's required to stay "on course". (doesn't matter which side)So if a course designer tried to set up slalom spaced only one car-width wide, where he intended for everyone to have to make massive sinewaves to negotiate said slalom, drivers would eventually figure out that mowing the cones down in a straight line (penalties and all) was the fastest way through the element.

And we would all do it, and sleep well. Course designer's intentions or not.
 
In that example you're taking penalties not circumventing the penalty.
Try again.
 
xe2bls
What are you? Go back to your original post about America's "mentality" and tell me what I'm supposed to be talking about.
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I am a person, what are you? 💡

The comment that included "America's mentality" is not far from the truth...
Once people noticed "deviation" and childish driving they were more than quick to follow the first guy to drive like an idiot. Most of the "fast times" weren't 4 wheels on in round 1, and American's are in general very lazy and greedy. It does suck, sometimes it's embarassing to be "grouped" with those, but not much I can do about that, since I am an American. I didn't say anything that isn't true.

As for what you're supposed to be talking about, I have no idea sir.
 
xe2bls
Try talking about a competition, not theft.
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Not really relevant in an abstract discussion of ethics, but if you need one how do you feel about doping in the olympics?
Is it ethical to take a steroid the officials can't detect yet?
To put it into Z1's context I suppose I would also have to tell everyone else that this drug dodges the screening process so lets say we read in the NY Times that a new steroid was developed that is undetectable by modern screening processes. So now we have a competition where everyone knows they can take performance enhancing substances without incurring a penalty. Everyone has the same knowledge of the exploit in the officiating but is it still ethical to use that exploit?
 
xe2bls
GTMotion, Joe should join the cheaters because he wouldn't get DQ'ed, as we have seen. Some guy here just mentioned he waited for something to be done about round 1 and was outside the top 128. That's Joe waiting on his ass and getting butt rapped for not doing what he had to. I completely understand how it's a crappy situation to be in though. I also hope they fix it for round 3 so we don't have to deal with it.
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So far no one has been DQ'd but we don't know what they are going to do moving forward, just like we didn't know what they were going to do in round 2. Just because you say no one will get DQ'd does not mean its true because "fix" said so.

Until Sony say's "you can use exploits in the game, and not get DQ'd", then a lot of people are going to be on the fence about using them, and to those people it is unfair if others use them to gain time and bump the fair guys out, because the fair guys did not know if they would be safe from penalty from using exploits. Yes if some of us feel like it we can cave in and use the exploits too, but we dont feel safe doing it not knowing what Sony may or may not do. Do you see where people get into a dilemma?

Also, if someone needed to use the grass to get into the top 128 they didn't belong there in the first place. Getting into the top 128 did not require going in the grass or using pit exit.
 
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Can someone clear up whether on Indy there are times it catches you cutting and other times it doesn't? Because I was under the impression that you could just drive straight across the 'S' and it would never give a penalty.
 
Apollo33
Can someone clear up whether on Indy there are times it catches you cutting and other times it doesn't? Because I was under the impression that you could just drive straight across the 'S' and it would never give a penalty.
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You could get your own answer by going into practice and doing some testing. You obviously own the game and that is exactly what anyone else would have to do to clear things up for you. But it's going to be much more crystal if you do the testing and observation work yourself.
 
Apollo33
Can someone clear up whether on Indy there are times it catches you cutting and other times it doesn't? Because I was under the impression that you could just drive straight across the 'S' and it would never give a penalty.
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The DQ(red time) seems to be based on the amount of driver input(throttle position, steering input, etc.) and angle of deviation but it seems to combine these factors to determine whether the time should be dq'd or not rather than just 1of the "parameters" to be violated. I was messing around in practice time trial mode trying to understand this(was struggling with one of the special events) and I couldn't seem to get consistent DQ's unless I had steering and throttle input at a higher level... It does seem to be "hit and miss" sometimes. I quit messing with it because I was able to overcome the Special Event that I was struggling with, so it became a dead issue for me.
 
Dr_Watson
You could get your own answer by going into practice and doing some testing. You obviously own the game and that is exactly what anyone else would have to do to clear things up for you. But it's going to be much more crystal if you do the testing and observation work yourself.
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How am I to know that the DQ rules in GT Academy are exactly the same as in practice mode? I would assume that they aren't. And no, others wouldn't have to do the same, because people who participated in round 2 should already know. In addition, there are people claiming that cutting the 'S' is "exploiting the penalty system," in the sense that usually the cutting is caught but if you do it just right you can get away with it. So I was also addressing them.

If you can cut the 'S' every time and it's allowed by the game, then it's incorrect to call that "exploiting the system," because there is no system! Which is why it only makes sense that in a competition to get the fastest time, if the organizer puts you on a track where it's legal to cut across grass, then you do it if it's fastest. We all know they could have detected wheels in the grass, and they apparently chose not to.

scca_ziptie
The DQ(red time) seems to be based on the amount of driver input(throttle position, steering input, etc.) and angle of deviation but it seems to combine these factors to determine whether the time should be dq'd or not rather than just 1of the "parameters" to be violated. I was messing around in practice time trial mode trying to understand this(was struggling with one of the special events) and I couldn't seem to get consistent DQ's unless I had steering and throttle input at a higher level... It does seem to be "hit and miss" sometimes. I quit messing with it because I was able to overcome the Special Event that I was struggling with, so it became a dead issue for me.
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Thanks.
 
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The defenders of "cheating" are ALL CHEATERS that will NEVER accept the facts and keep saying otherwise. They probably know the truth but are ashamed to say they got it..How stupid can you be not to see why PD cancelled round 2 ? doesnt make sense....

Oh well, there is a also a slight chance they are brainless morons :)

Fair guys, do yourselves a favor and leave them alone. They will get what they deserve in the long run. You "can" cheat, but karma will bring them down.
 
It's the nature of competition to push the boundaries of the rules to get to the top. If a lack of rules produces undesirable results, you add more rules. The people running the WRS know this. The people running every major sport know this. If you don't know this, then you might be the moron.
 
apollo33
it's the nature of competition to push the boundaries of the rules to get to the top. If a lack of rules produces undesirable results, you add more rules. The people running the wrs know this. The people running every major sport know this. If you don't know this, then you might be the moron.
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+1
 
Dr_Watson
then it is unethical behavior.
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So it wouldn't even occur to you that the course designer failed to properly design the course for the outcome he desired?

When a course designer builds a course where someone can go faster through the course on a path other than he/she intended, without getting DQ'd, that's on the designer. (not the drivers)


That has everything to do with designer error and nothing to do with driver ethics.


I'm not even using a hypothetical here. IRL, the result would be the course designer learning something. The only driver complaints would com from course workers having to pick up the slalom cones on every single run.....And they would be mad at the course designer, not the drivers.
 
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cenk
The defenders of "cheating" are ALL CHEATERS that will NEVER accept the facts and keep saying otherwise. They probably know the truth but are ashamed to say they got it..How stupid can you be not to see why PD cancelled round 2 ? doesnt make sense....

Oh well, there is a also a slight chance they are brainless morons :)

Fair guys, do yourselves a favor and leave them alone. They will get what they deserve in the long run. You "can" cheat, but karma will bring them down.
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I love the way we have abused the language.

If people who do something allowed by the game, in plain view of everyone, are called "cheaters", have you made up a new word for people who write custom code, or have a "ringer" run times under someone else's screen name. (and other ,deceptive, dishonest practices that give them an actual advantage over other drivers.)

What I'm asking is, have you created a new word for real cheaters?
 
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Websters Definition:

Cheating:
1 - To Influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice.
2 - To elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting

Exploit
1 - To make productive use of
2 - To make use of meanly or unfairly of one's own advantage

I'm starting to think cheating is the right word. Hope this stokes the fire of the flames...
 
Z1NONLY
So it wouldn't even occur to you that the course designer failed to properly design the course for the outcome he desired?

When a course designer builds a course where someone can go faster through the course on a path other than he/she intended, without getting DQ'd, that's on the designer. (not the drivers)


That has everything to do with designer error and nothing to do with driver ethics.


I'm not even using a hypothetical here. IRL, the result would be the course designer learning something. The only driver complaints would com from course workers having to pick up the slalom cones on every single run.....And they would be mad at the course designer, not the drivers.
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It's only unethical when you say you're ALSO circumventing a penalty.

Z1NONLY
I'm circumventing the (DQ) penalty and the course designers intentions.
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If you're TAKING penalties mowing cones that don't add up to as much time as it would take to do it without coneicide then sure that's all design flaw.
 
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