Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)

[boomee]

Fixed even further-
Germans build the most expensive to repair cars, definitley not the best cars. That point is all personal preference for a car. It all depends on your needs or requirements so that point is pretty much moot.

 

[McLaren]

Fixed even further-
Germans build the most expensive to repair cars, definitley not the best cars. That point is all personal preference for a car. It all depends on your needs or requirements so that point is pretty much moot.

Again....

You have your Fascists mixed up there, as you must mean the Italians.

Though the French technically have something in there as well.

 

[Azuremen]

Fixed even further-
Germans build the most expensive to repair cars, definitley not the best cars. That point is all personal preference for a car. It all depends on your needs or requirements so that point is pretty much moot.

It is cheaper to get parts for my M3 than it was for my 93 Civic hatch. And an S50 (US spec) is cheaper than a B18C5. I've had this discussion far, far too many times. And it is certainly easier and cheaper to work on my M3 rather than any WRX due to the more conventional engine design and lack of a turbo. Not to mention the fewer diffs.

I'm quite curious how much of a hassle it will be to change something as simple as spark plugs on the BRZ, along with other aspects of routine maintenance.

 

[Tornado]

That makes me wonder: Will you have to take the Scion to Scooby dealers to get it looked at?

 

[Azuremen]

That makes me wonder: Will you have to take the Scion to Scooby dealers to get it looked at?

I would imagine they'd have a mechanic come over from Subaru to handle those. At least at most dealerships. But then again, some places might not have dealer networks with both in them... the Subaru dealers are separate from the Toyota ones, from what I recall.

Maybe they'll just train up some guy to handle the boxer related issues.

 

[Cale]

It is cheaper to get parts for my M3 than it was for my 93 Civic hatch. And an S50 (US spec) is cheaper than a B18C5. I've had this discussion far, far too many times. And it is certainly easier and cheaper to work on my M3 rather than any WRX due to the more conventional engine design and lack of a turbo. Not to mention the fewer diffs.

I'm quite curious how much of a hassle it will be to change something as simple as spark plugs on the BRZ, along with other aspects of routine maintenance.

Spark plugs are sort of a hassle, well the first one is. At least in my car.

 

[RocZX]

 

[boomee]

It is cheaper to get parts for my M3 than it was for my 93 Civic hatch. And an S50 (US spec) is cheaper than a B18C5. I've had this discussion far, far too many times. And it is certainly easier and cheaper to work on my M3 rather than any WRX due to the more conventional engine design and lack of a turbo. Not to mention the fewer diffs.

I'm quite curious how much of a hassle it will be to change something as simple as spark plugs on the BRZ, along with other aspects of routine maintenance.

Maybe in your world buddy but it is definitly alot cheaper to work on any subaru in the US vs bmw period. maybe in speculation in your world for your older bmw. The reality is something completly different. Even with the difs and turbo. I have seen BMWs with $100+ oil changes alone. BMWs also have turbos and awd so your point is kinda out of place if you are talking your own older BMW m3 well obviously that is a situation unique only to you.

 

[boomee]

That makes me wonder: Will you have to take the Scion to Scooby dealers to get it looked at?

Work on it yourself or have someone that is a mechanic that you trust. Then again sometimes that takes time which is a valuble commodity these days.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I was wondering yesterday, I wonder how long it'll be before a major tuning shop yanks out the boxer and puts something else in there? I'd love to see someone put a Toyota 2ZZ in there just for kicks.

 

[dsgerbc]

Now, that's a nicer blue...

 

[Tornado]

This post:

Maybe in your world buddy but it is definitly alot cheaper to work on any subaru in the US vs bmw period. maybe in speculation in your world for your older bmw. The reality is something completly different. Even with the difs and turbo. I have seen BMWs with $100+ oil changes alone. BMWs also have turbos and awd so your point is kinda out of place if you are talking your own older BMW m3 well obviously that is a situation unique only to you.

Either completely invalidates or is completely invalidated by this post:

Work on it yourself or have someone that is a mechanic that you trust. Then again sometimes that takes time which is a valuble commodity these days.

Pick one (though you are wrong both counts, so picking neither would be the better option).

 

[boomee]

This post:

Either completely invalidates or is completely invalidated by this post:



Pick one (though you are wrong both counts, so picking neither would be the better option).

Whatever dude I generally try to do things myself what I cant handle I have family that is alot more mechanically inclined than me its saved me alot of money specifically on my wifes vehicle. to each there
own I suppose.


BY The way Looks like the BRZ will indeed keep the same HP http://jalopnik.com/5863633/subaru-brz-isnt-a-more-powerful-toyota-gt-86

 

[Omnis]

One of them should have been roundy and sharp (as it is), while the other should have been boxier and more blunt. That vent panel thing on both cars is SO stupid. What's the point of it? It looks ugly as hell. You can't have venty things that high up. It's done right on the M3 and G8. This? Ugly.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> ...

I was wondering yesterday, I wonder how long it'll be before a major tuning shop yanks out the boxer and puts something else in there? I'd love to see someone put a Toyota 2ZZ in there just for kicks.

^ I bet some JDM tuner shops already aquired some units in preparation for another JDM car show...The Tokyo Auto Salon.

-> But it will be a while for some *rouge* tuner that will yank the Boxer out for something else. Many tuners like the boxer in general as proven with its EJ2x bretheren.

-> 2ZZ? Um...I'd rather see a 1JZ-GE or a 2JZ-GE stuffed in there.

~> Them GTE's are for *extreme* tuners like Top Secret & AMS loonies.

 

[Azuremen]

Maybe in your world buddy but it is definitly alot cheaper to work on any subaru in the US vs bmw period. maybe in speculation in your world for your older bmw. The reality is something completly different. Even with the difs and turbo. I have seen BMWs with $100+ oil changes alone. BMWs also have turbos and awd so your point is kinda out of place if you are talking your own older BMW m3 well obviously that is a situation unique only to you.

My oil change cost me $25 last I checked.

If you have the dealer do everything, yes, BMW will probably be more. But a Subaru isn't cheap at a dealer either, and when they are brand new, BMW tends to handle more stuff with no charges as well, so...

It is easier to do regular maintenance on a BMW yourself than a Subaru. I've had this talk with a lot of Subaru guys who also work on BMWs, so in my world, and many other worlds, this is the case. I know a lot of people who would rather work on a 2003 5 series than a Legacy. Boxer engines are not particularly easy to access things on because of their layout. Then you have extra bits like the header and such because of the design as well.

I was wondering yesterday, I wonder how long it'll be before a major tuning shop yanks out the boxer and puts something else in there? I'd love to see someone put a Toyota 2ZZ in there just for kicks.

I am skeptical of the profile due to the Boxer being wider than taller versus a straight 4.

 

[CodeRedR51]

-> 2ZZ? Um...I'd rather see a 1JZ-GE or a 2JZ-GE stuffed in there.

~> Them GTE's are for *extreme* tuners like Top Secret & AMS loonies.

So you want a heavy ass iron block inline-6 instead?

 

[Joneseydrifts]

All I'm going to say is that if there's a Toyota badge on it, it had better not still be called the FT-86. A true successor to the ae86 must be simple, affordable, infinitely tunable, and fun to drive. However, I'm a bit of Subaru fanboy, and therefor I cannot hide my excitement. There aren't enough FR cars on the market now, at least, not pure sports cars. (and I've heard that the Subie comes standard with a traditional manual 6-speed transmission, not some wannabe automatic)

 

[boomee]

My oil change cost me $25 last I checked.

If you have the dealer do everything, yes, BMW will probably be more. But a Subaru isn't cheap at a dealer either, and when they are brand new, BMW tends to handle more stuff with no charges as well, so...

It is easier to do regular maintenance on a BMW yourself than a Subaru. I've had this talk with a lot of Subaru guys who also work on BMWs, so in my world, and many other worlds, this is the case. I know a lot of people who would rather work on a 2003 5 series than a Legacy. Boxer engines are not particularly easy to access things on because of their layout. Then you have extra bits like the header and such because of the design as well.

I am skeptical of the profile due to the Boxer being wider than taller versus a straight 4.

Yawn and I have talked to many bmw guys that say wow this car is expensive to maintain and to work on. We can go on like this forever.👎 In my area there are tons of subie mechanics and its not very hard to work on at all just different. My subie to maintain an oil change also is 25 bucks ( keep in mind the forester xt is basically a 2004 sti engine with small ( but faster spooling turbo TD04) I will save the differences in engines for a later time and discussion.

 

[boomee]

Disregard

 

[Kamuifanboy]

Yawn And have talked to many bmw guys that say wow this car is expensive to maintain and to work on. We can go on like this forever.👎 In my area there are tons of subie mechanics and its not very hard to work on at all just different. My subie to maintain an oil change also is 25 bucks ( keep in mind the forester xt is basically a 2004 sti engine with small ( but faster spooling turbo TD04) I ll save the differences in engines for a later time and descusion.

Yeah my fathers M3 maintenance is ridiculously expensive. 25 bucks for an oil change is cheap though.

 

[gtsmashbros]

So you want a heavy ass iron block inline-6 instead?

👍 👍 👍 👍

YEAAHHH!!! That is what we need, with a turbo or two, and some racing slicks, and a rollcage.

 

[Azuremen]

Yawn And have talked to many bmw guys that say wow this car is expensive to maintain and to work on. We can go on like this forever.👎 In my area there are tons of subie mechanics and its not very hard to work on at all just different. My subie to maintain an oil change also is 25 bucks ( keep in mind the forester xt is basically a 2004 sti engine with small ( but faster spooling turbo TD04) I ll save the differences in engines for a later time and descusion.

Any time you have to pull the engine to run a compression test indicates it isn't just a different thing to work on the car.

M car maintenance for later models is a bit more due to the required valve adjustments. This is in turn balanced out versus an STi due to turbo maintenance and the diffs.

We can go back and forth on this but German cars are not inherently more expensive to work on unless you insist on doing it all through the dealer network, where they will charge you $10 for a 50 cent light bulb, etc.

 

[Zenith]

Yawn And have talked to many bmw guys that say wow this car is expensive to maintain and to work on. We can go on like this forever.👎 In my area there are tons of subie mechanics and its not very hard to work on at all just different. My subie to maintain an oil change also is 25 bucks ( keep in mind the forester xt is basically a 2004 sti engine with small ( but faster spooling turbo TD04) I ll save the differences in engines for a later time and descusion.

So we either take the word of somone who doesn't use periods, commas, or quotations that "many guys" agree with, or the firsthand experience of Azure... (someone who speaks English)

 

[CodeRedR51]

All I'm going to say is that if there's a Toyota badge on it, it had better not still be called the FT-86. A true successor to the ae86 must be simple, affordable, infinitely tunable, and fun to drive.

Isn't that what we have here?

(and I've heard that the Subie comes standard with a traditional manual 6-speed transmission, not some wannabe automatic)

Both cars do. These cars are identacle save the badging and some exterior tweaks. Everything under the skin is the same.

 

[Azuremen]

The fact is brand new cars are all a bit problematic to work on at home because of the increasing use of electronic and computer bits to smooth out driver inputs and to increase efficiency. Working on a BMW from the E3x range is going to be much easier than working on the new models that have far more going on under the hood. This also goes for Subarus.

It is very easy to foresee the engine bay of the FT-86/BZR being quite tight, given how low they want to place the engine and where they will be mounting the transmission and all relative to the wheels. Combine this with the Boxer bit with the intake and exhaust bits around that, and I can see getting to much of anything being a hassle. Especially when compared to engines using far more conventional layouts that tend to put things right there at the top of the bay, rather than the sides.

As for older models, most mechanics I know tend to list Subarus are moderately annoying to work on because of that Boxer layout. I only hear VWs getting complained about more by general mechanics. And this is a very heavy Subaru area, as I've said numerous times.

 

[Eric.]

Isn't that what we have here?

I keep hearing this whole "its not really an AE86 tribute" thing. I guess somebody needs to explain what an AE86 tribute should be.

 

[boomee]

So we either take the word of somone who doesn't use periods, commas, or quotations that "many guys" agree with, or the firsthand experience of Azure... (someone who speaks English)

Do u speak english ?

 

[Eric.]

Do u speak english ?

haz u red AUP?

You will not use “textspeak” (“r”, “u”, “plz”, etc.) in your messages. Decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of capital letters.

 

[Azuremen]

Do u speak english ?

As I've suggested before, using proper syntax and style, or at least attempting, would go a long way towards people taking you more seriously. On every topic. I fail to see how this is so hard to grasp. More impressive is your persistence on taking this thread off topic, despite, if I recall correctly, telling us to stay on topic.

The AE86 tribute is clear, though I don't see why why would try to deny that now. The original design goals were similar to what the AE86 was back in its time - a relative basic, RWD, sport-ish car. One could argue they've gone a bit away from the basic, as it isn't built on the platform of an bread and butter economy car, and has far more going on in the way of a sports car, but the idea is still there.

I do find it some what amusing that the T would be for the Celica chassis line, following its separation once the Supra lined was split back in the day. A code split that happened after the introduction of FWD to the Celica line up. Curious what the final chassis and VIN codes will be on this now...