Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)

[boomee]

The fact is brand new cars are all a bit problematic to work on at home because of the increasing use of electronic and computer bits to smooth out driver inputs and to increase efficiency. Working on a BMW from the E3x range is going to be much easier than working on the new models that have far more going on under the hood. This also goes for Subarus.
And this is a very heavy Subaru area, as I've said numerous times.

A subie from before the 2008 era is also going to be much easier and cheaper to work on. Its just different for different people when it comes to cars.

 

[Azuremen]

A subie from before the 2008 era is also going to be much easier and cheaper to work on. Its just different for different people when it comes to cars.

Minus the part where you undo the engine mounts to get to the Spark plugs, right?

Or the fact the '07 models ran lean and tended to break themselves. A lot.

And have you ever, even once, looked under the hood of an SVX. Mother of God.

 

[boomee]

As I've suggested before, using proper syntax and style, or at least attempting, would go a long way towards people taking you more seriously. On every topic. I fail to see how this is so hard to grasp. More impressive is your persistence on taking this thread off topic, despite, if I recall correctly, telling us to stay on topic.

The AE86 tribute is clear, though I don't see why why would try to deny that now. The original design goals were similar to what the AE86 was back in its time - a relative basic, RWD, sport-ish car. One could argue they've gone a bit away from the basic, as it isn't built on the platform of an bread and butter economy car, and has far more going on in the way of a sports car, but the idea is still there.

I do find it some what amusing that the T would be for the Celica chassis line, following its separation once the Supra lined was split back in the day. A code split that happened after the introduction of FWD to the Celica line up. Curious what the final chassis and VIN codes will be on this now...

If any person shouldnt be saying ''stay on topic.'' Dude you have gone of topic many of times yourself. Is that clear enough for you.

 

[Eric.]

Its his thread. I think he can take it where he wants, really.

Oh, and the bit with "FT86", FT stood for Future Toyota I think. Also I recall seeing an article calling these cars' platform AS1 or AC1, but google isn't turning up anything now.

Edit: AS1 is the project code.

http://www.ft86club.com/?p=675

 

[boomee]

Minus the part where you undo the engine mounts to get to the Spark plugs, right?

Or the fact the '07 models ran lean and tended to break themselves. A lot.

And have you ever, even once, looked under the hood of an SVX. Mother of God.

LOLOL thats kinda funny 07 models are fine( at least everyone I have encountered)its the 08s that run lean. SVX is a fun car my dad still driving his and its going strong right now

 

[Azuremen]

LOLOL thats kinda funny 07 models are fine( at least everyone I have encountered)its the 08s that run lean. SVX is a fun car my dad still driving his and its going strong right now

They are lucky. There is considerable documentation on the '07 and later 2.5L engines having compression issues and frying pistons. This resulted from a different tune from the factory to please the EPA and other emissions tests. The resulting overly lean tune lead to a lot of problems, which many dealerships resolved by making the engine run a bit rich, which lead to other issues. I've talked with no less than a dozen STi owners about this very problem. It is also why I am aware that dealerships won't do compression tests, even under warranty, unless there are severe problems with the motor. The reason being they have to pull the engine, which just costs too much in labor.

 

[boomee]

Ok.... if you say so. Am I saying there has never been a issue prior to 08? No that is not what I am saying ( just never encountered one in my own subaru circles I run in)I find specifically in 08and 09 stis peoples engines started grenading so to speak. There is also considirable documentation for that. This M3 subaru thing is getting old if your thing is M3s have fun. Do I think subarus( and other brands) are better than some bmws absolutly I do. Leave it at peoples opinion.

 

[Revolution.]

They're both quite nice looking cars I think, although some of the details of each annoy me. To that end I photoshopped the GT-86 a bit to clean up a few of the ugly details... I think once a few tuning companies get their hands on it and tweak the looks a touch it'll be a stunning little car, hell just adding some nice wheels and lowering it makes the world of difference


Click

 

[Azuremen]

Ok.... if you say so. Am I saying there has never been a issue prior to 08? No that is not what I am saying ( just never encountered one in my own subaru circles I run in)I find specifically in 08and 09 stis peoples engines started grenading so to speak. There is also considirable documentation for that. This M3 subaru thing is getting old if your thing is M3s have fun. Do I think subarus( and other brands) are better than some bmws absolutly I do. Leave it at peoples opinion.

It was originally someone commenting on the maintenance of German cars, which is a general but flawed opinion. You insistence on comparing BMW to Subaru arose from my pondering on general maintenance with the FT-86 arising from the Boxer layout. And I can easily see someone cross shopping this with a 2 year old 335i, and thus it is relevant.

And for the love of god, please, please try to follow some grammar rules for your posts. They take a decent amount of effort to understand simply because you fail to use periods and commas in reasonable places.

 

[boomee]

They're both quite nice looking cars I think, although some of the details of each annoy me. To that end I photoshopped the GT-86 a bit to clean up a few of the ugly details... I think once a few tuning companies get their hands on it and tweak the looks a touch it'll be a stunning little car, hell just adding some nice wheels and lowering it makes the world of difference


Click

What are the ugly details that bother you?

 

[Revolution.]

What are the ugly details that bother you?

On the actual GT-86, I don't like how the Toyota badge is set in and lines from that trail up over the bonnet. I'm also not a fan of the little quarter panel detail at the base of the A pillar, where the 'boxer' badge sits. They're the main ones I think, as I said the basic shape of the car is actually quite nice.

 

[homeforsummer]

I am skeptical of the profile due to the Boxer being wider than taller versus a straight 4.

Do you actually mean taller? A boxer will definitely be wider than an inline 4 but suspect it's a lot lower. I'd actually suspect it'd be difficult to get quite a number of engines under the hood simply because it's a relatively low car that's been optimised for a fairly low engine - your average inline 4 probably wouldn't leave a great deal of room for a hood.

Not to mention the affect on the car's balance. One of the advantages of the boxer is a low centre of gravity.

Dunno, I think swapping out the engine seems vaguely pointless. We don't even know what this one is really like yet.

 

[Zenith]

Dunno, I think swapping out the engine seems vaguely pointless.

As if that will stop anyone.

 

[PureAwesomeness]

Pretty cool video up on the Japanese Toyota website. Apologies if it's already been posted somewhere. You need to click the Toyota 86 link on the movie archive menu on the right side of the screen.

New 86 Video

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

I don't see why people are comparing this to the mustang, its more suited compared to the 2.0 "4 cylinder" genesis coupe r-spec.

Also: in before 2jz swap flood.

 

[boomee]

I don't see why people are comparing this to the mustang, its more suited compared to the 2.0 "4 cylinder" genesis coupe r-spec.

Also: in before 2jz swap flood.

Because of the starting price of the mustang ( v6) as well as the price of the genisis coupe wich are also rwd cars I can see that happening. I myself would be one of those shoppers since I am a mustang fan as well as a subie fan.

 

[Azuremen]

Do you actually mean taller? A boxer will definitely be wider than an inline 4 but suspect it's a lot lower. I'd actually suspect it'd be difficult to get quite a number of engines under the hood simply because it's a relatively low car that's been optimised for a fairly low engine - your average inline 4 probably wouldn't leave a great deal of room for a hood.

Last I checked, a Boxer is more wide than tall, while a straight 4 is generally more tall than wide.

I think I worded what I said prior reasonably well... maybe some other members are rubbing off on me.

Regardless, what I meant is most engines are likely too tall for that bay, unless you do some crazy fun tilt mount action, but even then getting everything lined up would probably be a headache beyond the worth of it all. Especially for something like a 2ZZ-GE, which I'd honestly see no point in putting in there unless you just must have that extra few hundred RPM till redline.

 

[RocZX]

 

[eSZee]

Minus the part where you undo the engine mounts to get to the Spark plugs, right?

Or the fact the '07 models ran lean and tended to break themselves. A lot.

And have you ever, even once, looked under the hood of an SVX. Mother of God.

They all still do that.
Subaru's way of getting ok emissions while making the engine run lean in the high rpm. Yeah, it is as stupid as it sounds.
Oh, and 30 weight oil that is just simply not enough, will shear, and screw up your engine.
All this leads to messed up ringlands and new shortblock.
Yup.

LOLOL thats kinda funny 07 models are fine( at least everyone I have encountered)its the 08s that run lean. SVX is a fun car my dad still driving his and its going strong right now

No, it started in 05 or 06.

 

[Azuremen]

They all still do that.
Subaru's way of getting ok emissions while making the engine run lean in the high rpm. Yeah, it is as stupid as it sounds.
Oh, and 30 weight oil that is just simply not enough, will shear, and screw up your engine.
All this leads to messed up ringlands and new shortblock.
Yup.


No, it started in 05 or 06.

Oh, I was just saying it goes back as far as '07, despite the generation change being '08. I haven't heard as many complaints about earlier years though.

At least someone knows what I am talking about

 

[CodeRedR51]

Dunno, I think swapping out the engine seems vaguely pointless. We don't even know what this one is really like yet.

However true, someone will find a way to do it. Why? Because the can.

 

[eSZee]

Dunno, I think swapping out the engine seems vaguely pointless. We don't even know what this one is really like yet.

Well, it's only 200hp and has no turbo.
Nearly every magazine/tuner shop/tv show/anything car related has posted stories about the 86 on bookspace. Most of the comments are along the lines of "I'll wait for the turbo", "only 200hp", "I'm not buying a subaru based on a toyota platform" or whatever other misinformation you want to use.

Oh, I was just saying it goes back as far as '07, despite the generation change being '08. I haven't heard as many complaints about earlier years though.

At least someone knows what I am talking about

It was the worst on 09 models, I believe.
Worst part is, a stage 1 tune cures the lean scenario, cures most of the idiotic things they did for emissions, but it gives SOA ammunition to deny any powertrain claims you might have down the road.

 

[Keef]

Toyota badge-engineered these cars something awful. I just went looking through their Tokyo pictures and literally the only differences between the two cars are the front bumper, headlights, fake side vent, and the addition of a spoiler on the Subaru. Mostly everything behind the front bumper is exactly the same. The interiors are the same. They couldn't even be bothered to change the tail lights or the exhaust tips.

Are they really expecting to sell two of the same damn thing here in the States like GM tried to do for decades? I don't really care if this is a sporting revival at Toyota, they've obviously done it as cheaply as possible. As far as I can tell, the car's hardly worth $20,000.

The only way I can see people snagging the Subaru (which is certainly going to be the more expensive version) is if they separate it into a different market by only offering an STi version. I think very few people would aim for the basic Subaru version even if they love the badge, because the Toyota version also has the engine that would make the Subaru appealing, plus it will be cheaper.

For the record, I would get the Toyota/Scion version. I cannot discern any business case for the BRZ at all. It's not even AWD. At least if it had that it would appeal to a staunchly devoted market of Subaru-faithfuls.

 

[Eric.]

All my Toyota-hating friends say the Toyota is ugly and they would get the BRZ if it wasn't anemic...

 

[Keef]

All my Toyota-hating friends say the Toyota is ugly and they would get the BRZ if it wasn't anemic...

So they won't get the Toyota because it's ugly, power notwithstanding. But they won't get the Subaru because it has 3 more horsepower than the Toyota would even if it looked good?

Slap your friends for me. They're fools.

 

[GTPorsche]

The Scion Version will remain the FR-S. Not too fond of that name. Although, if there were a way to swap badges, I wouldn't mind it even though it wouldn't actually change the fact that it's a Scion.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think very few people would aim for the basic Subaru version even if they love the badge, because the Toyota version also has the engine that would make the Subaru appealing, plus it will be cheaper.

For the record, I would get the Toyota/Scion version. I cannot discern any business case for the BRZ at all. It's not even AWD. At least if it had that it would appeal to a staunchly devoted market of Subaru-faithfuls.

I personally would go for the Subaru. I think it looks better, but that's like saying Mary Kate is better than Ashley. It doesn't make a huge difference. Its all going to come down to how differently they price the two. I'm under the assumption that Toyota will "pull a Pontiac" and make the Subaru slightly more expensive, but not enough to make it seem unreasonable. In the end, it really doesn't make a substantial difference, I will be saving my pennies to get one either way.

 

[Tornado]

I cannot discern any business case for the BRZ at all.

It isn't badged as a Scion.

 

[dsgerbc]

Back to Subaru-bashing? Lot's of people flash some random 'stage X' tunes from some brainless 'renowned tuner' w/o any engineering degree/experience and then complain about engine failures. FWIW stock tunes run rich in most turbocharged Subies, with few exceptions. First thing those tuners do is lean-out the map. 07-08 vintage had their share of problems, but not due to the tune.
Judging complexity of working on a Subaru by comparing to SVX? Lol. Changing spark-plugs might require a special tool on newer 4-bangers, that's it. If the shop tries to charge you arm and leg, claiming they have to undo engine mounts and whatever other crap there might be 'in the book' - find another shop.

I'd cross-shop 2-year old 335i coupe vs BRZ if the former had a locking rear diff.

 

[Eric.]

So they won't get the Toyota because it's ugly, power notwithstanding. But they won't get the Subaru because it has 3 more horsepower than the Toyota would even if it looked good?

Slap your friends for me. They're fools.

They think 200hp is underpowered. Coming from an S2000 owner and a STI owner, mostly. Unless the powerband sucks, its going to be at least as fast as my Civic is now, and its plenty fast for a daily.

Back to Subaru-bashing? Lot's of people flash some random 'stage X' tunes from some brainless 'renowned tuner' w/o any engineering degree/experience and then complain about engine failures. FWIW stock tunes run rich in most turbocharged Subies, with few exceptions. First thing those tuners do is lean-out the map. 07-08 vintage had their share of problems, but not due to the tune.
Judging complexity of working on a Subaru by comparing to SVX? Lol. Changing spark-plugs might require a special tool on newer 4-bangers, that's it. If the shop tries to charge you arm and leg, claiming they have to undo engine mounts and whatever other crap there might be 'in the book' - find another shop.

I'd cross-shop 2-year old 335i coupe vs BRZ if the former had a locking rear diff.

Yeah well my friend runs one of those no-name Stage 1 tunes from this no-name random don't-know-what-they're-doing-with-anything company named Cobb and its intentionally richer than the stock tune to prevent esplodin' but it still did.