Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Azuremen
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I still think you're expecting too much. 2,400lbs is very good in my opinion for any car these days, considering all the safety stuff, electronics, bracing, etc. Also consider the Scion tC weighs almost 3,000lbs, the FT-86 is not heavy by any means. It's actually right in line with a 1999-2005 Miata.

Edit: And if you have no interest, why even post in here?
 
Because tr0lling is K00l . :p

In fact 2,400lbs is very very light for a steel, RWD, reasonably priced sportscar.
 
2,400 pounds in extremely light for a car in today's market, and I will applaud Toyota if they actually pull it off.
 
eight6er
I have no interest in any cars on the market today, so I'll only compare it to cars I am interested in, compared to the original it's very heavy. This car was meant to be 1000kg or less and RWD thats the only reason I was interested in it.
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This car was never meant to be less than 1000kg. That was the MR-S design goal, there is no way you are going to get that low with a car with back seats and some actual rigidity. And the US market AE86 was around 2300 to 2400 pounds, so you might want to get off that train of thought.

Honestly, I don't get why people like the AE86 anymore. It is just nothing amazing at all.
 
Azuremen
This car was never meant to be less than 1000kg. That was the MR-S design goal, there is no way you are going to get that low with a car with back seats and some actual rigidity. And the US market AE86 was around 2300 to 2400 pounds, so you might want to get off that train of thought.

Honestly, I don't get why people like the AE86 anymore. It is just nothing amazing at all.
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The original goal for this car was meant to be 1000kgs or less, why do you think the one in GT5 is 1000kgs? I never said the FT86 is heavy by the standards of todays cars, I said it's too heavy for me... I read 200kg less than a scirocco, I quickly looked up the weight of a scirocco(1395kgs), that worked out about 1200kg for the FT86 not 1100kg. I don't really care what the US market AE86 weighed, I'm from Ireland and we have plenty of JDM AE86s here(940kg). I've owned 3 AE86s before and I'll buy another, even after owning many other faster cars. If you don't get why people like it, you obviously can't see what's amazing about them.

@R1600 I was interested in this because it was meant to be a light, practical and RWD something that has not been made since the AE86.
 
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eight6er
The original goal for this car was meant to be 1000kgs or less, why do you think the one in GT5 is 1000kgs? I never said the FT86 is heavy by the standards of todays cars, I said it's too heavy for me... I read 200kg less than a scirocco, I quickly looked up the weight of a scirocco(1395kgs), that worked out about 1200kg for the FT86 not 1100kg. I don't really care what the US market AE86 weighed, I'm from Ireland and we have plenty of JDM AE86s here(940kg). I've owned 3 AE86s before and I'll buy another, even after owning many other faster cars. If you don't get why people like it, you obviously can't see what's amazing about them.

@R1600 I was interested in this because it was meant to be a light, practical and RWD something that has not been made since the AE86.
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I've driven several AE86, from stock to 20Valve swap, turbo'd and supercharged, etc. The AW11 is better performing car from the same time and isn't limited by having a solid rear axle. It weighs about the same as well. The Miata is a much better platform from roughly the same era in terms of handling and the BP in the later models is a better motor for boosting.

As for the 4A-GE, it is nothing special. T-VIS is neat and VVT-i on the 20Valve models is nice, but it isn't on par with the VTEC system Honda was using on it's B series engines at the time, which I also feel are better built.

That aside, using GT5 as a reference is :lol: Honestly, I recommend never doing it again, ever. The lightest figures I saw for this, way back in the day, were maybe 1100 to 1200kg. Certainly not 1000kg.
 
astrosdude91
So are they going to have it as just a Scion, or are they going to have both a Scion and Toyota version stateside?
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Last I had heard, it was going to be a Scion and then we were going to get the Subaru. God only knows if it would actually work out that way.

I'll take whichever version is cheaper and looks less-ridiculous.
 
The more info and pictures that are revealed about both of these cars the less excited for them I become. So far, as far as looks go, to me, the Subaru can't look any worse than the Toyota/Scion iteration.....or can it..... Only time will tell.
 
Azuremen
I've driven several AE86, from stock to 20Valve swap, turbo'd and supercharged, etc. The AW11 is better performing car from the same time and isn't limited by having a solid rear axle. It weighs about the same as well. The Miata is a much better platform from roughly the same era in terms of handling and the BP in the later models is a better motor for boosting.

As for the 4A-GE, it is nothing special. T-VIS is neat and VVT-i on the 20Valve models is nice, but it isn't on par with the VTEC system Honda was using on it's B series engines at the time, which I also feel are better built.

That aside, using GT5 as a reference is :lol: Honestly, I recommend never doing it again, ever. The lightest figures I saw for this, way back in the day, were maybe 1100 to 1200kg. Certainly not 1000kg.
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I never claimed it was the best at anything, as I said if you don't get it...
I'm not going to try and change your mind.

I used GT5 because it was easiest, I don't have the article that came with this picture, but it's the first I heard of toyota making a new AE86, the guy from toyota who was being interviewed said 1000kg was the aim. I read 1000kg was the aim in one more article and I haven't seen any more claims about it's weight other than 1000kg, until this article saying 200kg less than a scirocco:sick:
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you can see kg 1000 on the spec sheet second from the bottom.
 
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And you can also quite clearly see that it's a magazine photochop, with specs for a 1.5 liter 2NZ-FE engine putting out a mere 120 ps. (though production versions only give out 107-115 hp...)

That's what the magazine (and many of us) expected... not what Toyota promised. Though in retrospect, the 1.5 isn't a great engine to serve as the basis for a performance car.
 
Is it just me, or the front end of that thing looks like the offspring of a GTR and a Prius? :eek:
 
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I remember the article was written as a translation of this and they said it was a release from toyota and an interview with some toyota guy for a magazine, I know it's a photoshop as there was no concept car made at that time, but it does seem like something toyota would make and I would have no reason not believe it.
 
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I still like it. If the FT-86 really does weigh in at only 1200kg, I'll be pretty impressed. Given how heavy cars like a Golf or Scirocco are, that'd be pretty impressive in and of itself, in my opinion. Expecting a production model to weigh considerably less than that, especially if it is meant to be actually affordable, is nothing short of wishful thinking, I guess.
That'd be around the NC MX-5's weight, and that's pretty impressive. I suppose a coupé like the FT-86 would also be more rigid and with more power, it should make a fine, sporty car. Nothing too impressive, but at less than 30'000£, it'd consider it a rather good deal. At least as far as 'off the shelf' cars go.

And whether it's badged as a Scion or Toyota, that doesn't make much of a difference to me. If it's a good car, it will be a good car regardless of the badge on the bonnet...

Either way, I'd love to see somewhat of an high-end version of the FT-86, that would kind of be what the 1-Series M Coupé should've been: Light, decently powerful with a sophisticated suspension and great handling.
On the other hand, I, personally, would be content with a rear wheel driven counterpart to VW's Scirocco. And that should be something that the FT-86 should absolutely be capable of, as far as I am concerned.
 
Current NCs are under 1100 kgs... the PRHT 2.0 with the six speed (the heaviest) is just a bit over. The current generation is already pretty darn stiff... even stiffer if you have the PRHT hard-top... and the latest revision to the suspension have fixed the handling and steering feel somewhat.

Too bad BMW failed to keep the pork out of the 1-series... they weigh over 1,400 kgs! That's a lot of weight for the lower end motors to haul around! They're entertaining with the bigger motors and the diesels, but what a wasted opportunity by BMW...
 
niky
Current NCs are under 1100 kgs... the PRHT 2.0 with the six speed (the heaviest) is just a bit over. The current generation is already pretty darn stiff... even stiffer if you have the PRHT hard-top... and the latest revision to the suspension have fixed the handling and steering feel somewhat.
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My bad, then. I just checked Wikipedia for the weight figures and found them to range from ~1100kg to ~1300kg, so I found it to be a good comparison :D
Either way, 200kg less than a Scirocco would put the FT-86 at 1100-1200kg, which is close enough, for a car that comes with considerably more power ;)
In my opinion, of course.
On the other hand, nobody would cross shop for a FT-86 and an MX-5, though, so that comparision might not be a very good, after all...

niky
Too bad BMW failed to keep the pork out of the 1-series... they weigh over 1,400 kgs! That's a lot of weight for the lower end motors to haul around! They're entertaining with the bigger motors and the diesels, but what a wasted opportunity by BMW...
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Agreed... The 1-Series could've been an amazing car, if it wasn't for the weight. That's why I was so unimpressed with the 1M :indiff:
 
Luminis
On the other hand, nobody would cross shop for a FT-86 and an MX-5, though, so that comparision might not be a very good, after all...
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Depends on your need for seats. The vario roof MX-5 would be a reasonable competitor, the old Solstice Coupe would have been as well. In my mind, the biggest competition for the FT-86 is going to be in-house, and will come in the form of the Scion tC. Assuming they are similar size, shape and overall design I have to wonder how Scion is going to be marketing both of these vehicles.
 
YSSMAN
Depends on your need for seats. The vario roof MX-5 would be a reasonable competitor, the old Solstice Coupe would have been as well. In my mind, the biggest competition for the FT-86 is going to be in-house, and will come in the form of the Scion tC. Assuming they are similar size, shape and overall design I have to wonder how Scion is going to be marketing both of these vehicles.
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The tC is heavy and FWD. Which one would you pick? :sly:
 
I know what I would want, but to the average person who may not have a preference, it puts Scion in an interesting position. For its size and shape, the tC offers a good amount of performance at a pretty reasonable price, plus the strange ability to seat full size persons in the back. How are they going to promote a slightly more expensive, smaller, and likely less-fuel efficient vehicle?

Sure, I'd buy the FT-86 if the price is right. But I don't know if the average kid looking for a sports car for ~$23K would.
 
YSSMAN
Depends on your need for seats. The vario roof MX-5 would be a reasonable competitor, the old Solstice Coupe would have been as well. In my mind, the biggest competition for the FT-86 is going to be in-house, and will come in the form of the Scion tC. Assuming they are similar size, shape and overall design I have to wonder how Scion is going to be marketing both of these vehicles.
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I agree with the sentiment about the tC. However, most people I've talked to/read about who wanted to get an MX-5 were going for it because it's a cheap, relatively sporty roadster and one of the most affordable ways to get your hands on a nice, little convertible, so I kinda don't think the FT-86 and the MX-5 are going to compete a lot.
Unless, of course, Toyota decides to offer a convertible version of the '86, which I highly doubt. It'd never stand a chance against the MX-5 :sly:
 
SCION FR-S Concept:

FRS1_672.jpg


FRS2_672.jpg


It looks more like the first FT86 concept, albeit more aggressive. I much, much prefer this to either of the Toyota concepts so far, especially the FT86-II. It almost looks like an amalgam of the front from the first concept, and more of the rear from the second. Perfect combination in opinion. I hope this is a close approximation to the final Toyota production model as we don't get Scions this side of the pond.
 
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YSSMAN
Assuming they are similar size, shape and overall design I have to wonder how Scion is going to be marketing both of these vehicles.
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The only people I've ever seen driving Scion tC's are people going through their midlife crises but are too poor to buy a Mustang. Though I will say that the best way to market it as a Scion would be to not make it a Scion.
 
Toronado
The only people I've ever seen driving Scion tC's are people going through their midlife crises but are too poor to buy a Mustang. Though I will say that the best way to market it as a Scion would be to not make it a Scion.
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I don't think I've seen anyone over 25 in a TC let alone someone old enough to be having a midlife crisis.
 
ryanb98
Is that yet another FT-86 concept?
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Yes.

Toronado
The only people I've ever seen driving Scion tC's are people going through their midlife crises but are too poor to buy a Mustang. Though I will say that the best way to market it as a Scion would be to not make it a Scion.
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The only people I ever see driving tC's are 20-something girls.
 
well things are moving along at subaru 2012 imiages of the base impreza were released looks like a mini legacy. seems to be a good commuter with 36 mpg thats great for an awd platform http://youtu.be/pojSbFHlizM
 

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