Scrap non premiums

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mulan
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I'm not even going to dignify this thread with a response, wait doh.

Standards 4-life (sic)
 
Perhaps not better with premium as it is built now..but perhaps more realistic with cars actually getting damaged. And if there were lesser models for the PS3 to think of i bet the ai would be better configured. As it is now its lousy because it has to generalise so that it can fit on 1000 cars and not optimized for a certain wheicle. So yes, if they made premiums with premium AI that would be good.
 
Mulan
Perhaps not better with premium as it is built now..but perhaps more realistic with cars actually getting damaged. And if there were lesser models for the PS3 to think of i bet the ai would be better configured. As it is now its lousy because it has to generalise so that it can fit on 1000 cars and not optimized for a certain wheicle. So yes, if they made premiums with premium AI that would be good.
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Mulan
Perhaps not better with premium as it is built now..but perhaps more realistic with cars actually getting damaged. And if there were lesser models for the PS3 to think of i bet the ai would be better configured. As it is now its lousy because it has to generalise so that it can fit on 1000 cars and not optimized for a certain wheicle. So yes, if they made premiums with premium AI that would be good.
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How does AI relate to damage modeling?

The PS3 doesn't "think of" all the models in the game at once, only the cars currently in the race. Having more models in the game does not hinder performance in any way.

You're asking for specific AI "model" for each car model?
 
Well the AI could certainly be more tuned with each car, or is this the best we can get? No, im certain the ai can be fixed if its more car specific. Or do all humans drive the same no matter what car? Are all humans as good with all cartypes? The more cars you have the harder to learn each and the same applies to the AI which in this case isnt smart so to make it better it seems you have to tune it carspecificly.
 
Mulan
Well the AI could certainly be more tuned with each car, or is this the best we can get? No, im certain the ai can be fixed if its more car specific. Or do all humans drive the same no matter what car? Are all humans as good with all cartypes? The more cars you have the harder to learn each and the same applies to the AI which in this case isnt smart so to make it better it seems you have to tune it carspecificly.
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How could it be car specific? If you were driving a Civic and Ferrari, how would you drive differently for each? And so you're asking for the AI to be worse in certain cars now? You need to make your mind up.
 
Mulan
Well the AI could certainly be more tuned with each car, or is this the best we can get? No, im certain the ai can be fixed if its more car specific. Or do all humans drive the same no matter what car? Are all humans as good with all cartypes? The more cars you have the harder to learn each and the same applies to the AI which in this case isnt smart so to make it better it seems you have to tune it carspecificly.
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AI and the human brain have very little to do with each other.
The AI doesn't need to learn anything, it can already know the absolute limits of every car in the game.. because it's in the game.

Even if you're right, you still haven't explained how removing cars will improve anything.

If you're right, would it not be just as possible to create some super-specific AI model for specifically one exact car model and not touch the other cars? They could add more of your proposed super AI things as they go, leaving the other cars as they are.

Basically, there is ZERO reason I can find to remove content from the game. Have you noticed the uproar about the trade limit? Imagine the uproar at a car list reduction of over 80%.

If you want competitive racing in GT5 (or any other racing game) go online. Find a racing league, and race with humans.
 
If you read some of my posts i recommend the standards in Arcade mode. So they can still be in the game but not in GT life where they should and would be able to focus only on the premiums. The premiums need more attention and if it was only premium models left my guess is (yes its a guess and based on common business scense, call it an analyse) they can do much better and we can finally get the game we were promissed, that is a simulator.

Now, i understand how you think AI works but thats not really true. Its easy to make the cars unrealistic if the computer drives them, they can be as fast as they want and no sliding or other problems. That would probably be noticed fast and wouldnt work. So what you need to do is put in a "virtual" driver that has theese abilities as in B sepc. Problem is that this driver does exactly the same thing no matter if it is a ferarri or a swift, and doesnt know the points where to apply gas where to break and so on when pushing the car to the limit. As you might have noticed the AI is lousy, and it all comes down to the number of cars it has to handle. Another thing is the setup of the AIs car with gears, tires, springs and so on. A true carspecifik AI would drive that car according to the best setup...if you take race tires it would to, if you choose extra wings then it would have that too. Wouldnt be that hard to do with premiums. Hope you understand what i mean...
 
freedomweasel
Even if you're right, you still haven't explained how removing cars will improve anything.

If you're right, would it not be just as possible to create some super-specific AI model for specifically one exact car model and not touch the other cars? They could add more of your proposed super AI things as they go, leaving the other cars as they are.
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Mulan
If you read some of my posts i recommend the standards in Arcade mode. So they can still be in the game but not in GT life where they should and would be able to focus only on the premiums. The premiums need more attention and if it was only premium models left my guess is (yes its a guess and based on common business scense, call it an analyse) they can do much better and we can finally get the game we were promissed, that is a simulator.
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Please explain how altering the standards in any way improves the game. Otherwise this thread needs to be locked.

You keep saying it will be better if the standards are moved to arcade. Why?

DON'T say because they can work on AI again. Having the standards in A-Spec does not impede their ability to work on anything else. How many times does this need to be said? They can work on improved AI, improved graphics, improved sound, etc, and leave the standards in A-Spec. It would be more work to remove them from A-Spec.

Imagine, for an example, you have two real life cars. One is a (standard) 1990 Honda Civic. It's dirty, needs an oil change, an engine rebuild, some new tires and car wash. You also own a brand new (premium) Ferrari F430. It could use a detailing and waxing to make it absolutely perfect.

You have two options.
A) move your Civic to the backyard and detail and wax your Ferrari
B) Do nothing to the Civic, and detail and wax your Ferrari.

Explain to me why option A is better than B.
 
I have explained!

If they make the premiums more realistic then the standards will not be ok to drive against premiums since they will lack the exact specifications to the real ones. The premiums are supposed to be in detail as their real ones. So you tell me how they will manage to convert all the standards (since it supposedly taking too much time) into premiums and how the game will not become even more silly if you have premiums with great looks and real handling against what i feel is arcadish standard models. The AI will not get better of this ofcourse either. So obvious choice is putting them in Arcade race and let GT be a simulator, so you can drive both but not against eachother unless you want in Arcade mode. That is to me a perfect balance!
 
Mulan
I have explained!

If they make the premiums more realistic then the standards will not be ok to drive against premiums since they will lack the exact specifications to the real ones. The premiums are supposed to be in detail as their real ones. So you tell me how they will manage to convert all the standards (since it supposedly taking too much time) into premiums and how the game will not become even more silly if you have premiums with great looks and real handling against what i feel is arcadish standard models. The AI will not get better of this ofcourse either. So obvious choice is putting them in Arcade race and let GT be a simulator, so you can drive both but not against eachother unless you want in Arcade mode. That is to me a perfect balance!
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The premiums and standards coexist just fine right now. I can't imagine how much improvement could possibly be added that would render the standards "unusable" with the premiums.
You've still yet to prove that the standards perform in an inferior way. Yes, they look worse, and sometimes sound worse, that is different than performing worse. Where are these "exact specifications" missing? You keep saying things as if it's indisputable fact, but you haven't proven any of it.
 
Scrap them altogether, no, use a generic cockpit view with them yes, I never drive the standards because I either feel like i'm a bug stuck on a bumper holding on for dear life or playing with a remote controlled car.
 
freedomweasel
The premiums and standards coexist just fine right now. I can't imagine how much improvement could possibly be added that would render the standards "unusable" with the premiums.
You've still yet to prove that the standards perform in an inferior way. Yes, they look worse, and sometimes sound worse, that is different than performing worse. Where are these "exact specifications" missing? You keep saying things as if it's indisputable fact, but you haven't proven any of it.
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difficult to get it right with bumperview. but if you feel they are correctly simulated then why against more premiums and standards in arcade mode, you dont want a simulatorgame anyway, you can drive them there? or what is it it you gonna miss?
 
Mulan
difficult to get it right with bumperview. but if you feel they are correctly simulated then why against more premiums and standards in arcade mode, you dont want a simulatorgame anyway, you can drive them there? or what is it it you gonna miss?
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Where did I say I didn't want a sim?
I don't want them moved because I enjoy using them. I feel they are simulated just fine.

Again, you're saying things as if they are accepted facts when they aren't.

The reality of the situation is you want to take content out of A-Spec for little to no benefit because you think the standards and premiums aren't up to some incredibly high bar you have in your head.
 
freedomweasel
Where did I say I didn't want a sim?
I don't want them moved because I enjoy using them. I feel they are simulated just fine.

Again, you're saying things as if they are accepted facts when they aren't.

The reality of the situation is you want to take content out of A-Spec for little to no benefit because you think the standards and premiums aren't up to some incredibly high bar you have in your head.
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then PD should have released this game 4years ago if premiums are not needed and they just put 4 years making better graphics. makes no scense doing premiums only for little better looks.
 
Mulan
then PD should have released this game 4years ago if premiums are not needed and they just put 4 years making better graphics. makes no scense doing premiums only for little better looks.
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Where are you coming up with this stuff?
I like the premiums, and would love more. Not at the expense of an arbitrary reduction in total car count.

And really, a little bit better looks? Are we playing the same game?
 
freedomweasel
Where are you coming up with this stuff?
I like the premiums, and would love more. Not at the expense of an arbitrary reduction in total car count.

And really, a little bit better looks? Are we playing the same game?
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irony since you say they are the same in everything else then its only graphics that took 4years, and i wonder if you read what
i say that cars can be there but in arcade, whats the problem?
 
Mulan
irony since you say they are the same in everything else then its only graphics that took 4years, and i wonder if you read what
i say that cars can be there but in arcade, whats the problem?
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You clearly have no idea about the amount of work that went into modeling and recording these cars. You also have proven you have no idea how the AI functions or how it relates (or doesn't) to the particular models used for the vehicle.

If you have no understanding about the basic topics about which you're speaking, it's impossible for anyone to have an intelligent discussion with you. You keep changing your point, contradicting yourself, and just generally talking in circles.

AI is not related to the number of polygons used in the model. Rendering additional detail in the Premiums in unlikely to happen based on current hardware limitations. Most people would prefer to keep the Standard models in the game. If you want human-like decision making, in all it's irrationality, go play online.
 
Mulan
irony since you say they are the same in everything else then its only graphics that took 4years, and i wonder if you read what
i say that cars can be there but in arcade, whats the problem?
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Ok, I think we're done here. You aren't making sense. You either repeat yourself verbatim when asked for clarification or change the talking point entirely.

This discussion is pointless. Feel free to keep responding, but I will no longer be checking in on this thread.

My final suggestion is to find or create an online group where people only race premiums. I think some exist already. That way you will be racing against good racers,which are no doubt better than the AI, and only in premium cars, which you like more. The online racing forum should have what you need.
 
Standard cars can look great if approached properly. I’ve found by pairing the car to a particular paint color improves the look drastically. You can slightly alter how light reflex off the lines and reduce the grittiness of the renderings.
 
Seems like some are asking me to proove why GT5 is not the best because the same people claim following:

1: Graphics cant be better, PD has put xxxxx amount of time and no way anyone can make it better with PS3 HW limitations

2: AI cant be better, see 1:

3: SOund cant be better See 1:

4: Damage modelling cant be better see 1:

5: Cockpit view cant be better see no1

6: Premums cant be more see no1

7: Handling cant be better see no1

8: Tracks cant be more see no1

9: Qualifying in game cant be done see no1

10: Standards with cockpitview cant be done see no1

11: Better filter in onlinemode cant be done, PD just discovered online racing

12: Changing/buying cars without changing 20 menues cant be done because PD loves to torture you with elevatormusic inbetween

Ok..i get it, what ever i claim you point out that PD has put in xxxx amount of time in it and the PS3 cant manage more. But the best proof of the opposite seems to come from Shift 2...made faster, looks better, cockpitview better, sound better, (AI will be better, cant be worse than GT5), Better tracks, Damage modeling better, customisation better...but arguing against GT5 hardcore followers is pointless. Reminds me of Baghdad Bob...
But i think lots can be done and im not gonna be happy about the game just because you are happy driving standards without knowing if they are simulated correctly as the premiums are.
 
Mulan
Seems like some are asking me to proove why GT5 is not the best because the same people claim following:

1: Graphics cant be better, PD has put xxxxx amount of time and no way anyone can make it better with PS3 HW limitations

2: AI cant be better, see 1:

3: SOund cant be better See 1:

4: Damage modelling cant be better see 1:

5: Cockpit view cant be better see no1

6: Premums cant be more see no1

7: Handling cant be better see no1

8: Tracks cant be more see no1

9: Qualifying in game cant be done see no1

10: Standards with cockpitview cant be done see no1

11: Better filter in onlinemode cant be done, PD just discovered online racing

12: Changing/buying cars without changing 20 menues cant be done because PD loves to torture you with elevatormusic inbetween

Ok..i get it, what ever i claim you point out that PD has put in xxxx amount of time in it and the PS3 cant manage more. But the best proof of the opposite seems to come from Shift 2...made faster, looks better, cockpitview better, sound better, (AI will be better, cant be worse than GT5), Better tracks, Damage modeling better, customisation better...but arguing against GT5 hardcore followers is pointless. Reminds me of Baghdad Bob...
But i think lots can be done and im not gonna be happy about the game just because you are happy driving standards without knowing if they are simulated correctly as the premiums are.
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None of this even makes sense!
Made faster because the cars do not have as high a polycount. And the cars themselves won't look better again because the polycount isn't as high.
Oh for the love of.. :ouch::dunce: STANDARD CARS AND PREMIUM CARS USE THE SAME PHYSICS ENGINE AND USE THE SAME TYPE OF DATA PUT INTO THAT PHYSICS ENGINE. Therefore, the standards ARE simulated correctly.
 
TheDrummingKING

None of this even makes sense!
Made faster because the cars do not have as high a polycount. And the cars themselves won't look better again because the polycount isn't as high.
Oh for the love of.. :ouch::dunce: STANDARD CARS AND PREMIUM CARS USE THE SAME PHYSICS ENGINE AND USE THE SAME TYPE OF DATA PUT INTO THAT PHYSICS ENGINE. Therefore, the standards ARE simulated correctly.
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You have never tried rolling over a standard car (in offline mode), have you?
It's a much hard effort to do than with premium cars, and when that happens you can see that cars are bottom heavy: they will struggle to rebalance themselves to their normal upright position.

This is either due to an exception in the physics engine or differences in the input data needed to calculate the car's driving behavior.
 
Standard Subaru cars <3
Standard Judd <3
Standard Mercedes cars <3
Stan... well you get it.

I'll just copy pasta from my 4chan post I did.

GT5P had 60 cars, GT5 has 238 Premium cars and some extra cars from GT3 and GT4 just because it's fun to have more cars.
mfw people whine about what they actually have.
1299634956383.jpg
 
I actually enjoy buying a car from the UCD rather than the Dealership. Just seems much more rewarding. I drive bumper cam only anyway.
 
SHIRAKAWA Akira
You have never tried rolling over a standard car (in offline mode), have you?
It's a much hard effort to do than with premium cars, and when that happens you can see that cars are bottom heavy: they will struggle to rebalance themselves to their normal upright position.

This is either due to an exception in the physics engine or differences in the input data needed to calculate the car's driving behavior.
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I think I remember us agreeing that the one problem standard cars have is that the center of gravity is a bit too low, though it is still possible to roll them and they are still simulated well.

Though I actually think they're about the same, seeing as I have trouble rolling premium cars too. :lol:

Ecchi-BANZAII!!
Standard Subaru cars <3
Standard Judd <3
Standard Mercedes cars <3
Stan... well you get it.

I'll just copy pasta from my 4chan post I did.

GT5P had 60 cars, GT5 has 238 Premium cars and some extra cars from GT3 and GT4 just because it's fun to have more cars.
mfw people whine about what they actually have.
1299634956383.jpg
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>mfw I know what you're talking about.
dupahurp.jpg
 
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