Seasonal events - now officially ruined.

[the Interceptor]

All well and fine, but these new events give me an empty feeling..... it's just not the same ... sigh

Same here!

I understand the argument that you can restrict yourself at all times and use a bone stock car to beat the challenges, but it's just not the same. It's like walking into a room with a table full of chocolate and sweets, and someone says to you "You don't have to eat anything of that." ... let's face it - you will!

Here's my scenario for an unrestricted seasonal event: I buy the car, leave it in stock form and run the race at least once, maybe twice, to see where I stand and how I stack up against the car(s) to beat. If I see any chance to win the race with this configuration, I will try until I do it. If I notice that tuning will be inevitable, I will slap on some better tires, take a little weight out, put a bit more power in and try again. And here's the problem: there is nothing that prevents me from tuning the car that little bit more. Of course I can detune the car again when I notice it has become too fast, but which level do I apply? Do I make my life that slight bit easier, or should I remove that part and make it that bit harder? Say I do the latter and lose three times in a row, what stops me from putting it in again when I become frustrated with the race?

It's a psychological problem. If there are restrictions, I will try to get as close to the allowed limit as possible with my car. If I can do what I want, I will always be seduced to add that one more part which makes my life easier. And where's the limit? Who tells me that my car isn't absolutely overpowered already, and I just can't drive? Or that I'm desperately trying to win something I can not win with the underpowered car I am using?

Sorry, it just doesn't work that way, it is not the same thing. PD has taken the challenge out of the seasonal events with this major change.

 

[JJ72]

And the great thing with restriction is you know how you compare with everyone else, when most can't gold the challenge without SRF and you can, there's a sense of satisfaction.

But now its very hard to gauge how do you do when everyone goes down different routes, some did weight reduction, some slap racing tires on and some do power upgrades, there isn't a performance ballpark for comparison.

I thought the average player can gold the last challenges with SRF? if yes than they can stick with that level of difficulty.

 

[Max_DC]

Why are the concerned citizens in this thread (and other threads as well) so upset with what the rest of the GT5 players are doing? How exactly do these newfound lack of restrictions prevent you from enjoying the game?

Sure, some kid can go into the seasonal events with a 700hp car and smoke the competition. That's great, but how exactly does that prevent you from winning the events YOUR way? And don't say it cheapens the achievement; you'll always be able to say that you beat such and such event with a stock Savanna RX-7 on comfort hard tires. Just like that guy in the other thread will always be able to say that he beat GT All-Stars with an Audi RS6 even though he could've done whatever he wanted to for that race.

It's like A-Spec points in GT4. If someone wanted to go win a bunch of 7-10 point races to beat the game, they could do that. If someone wanted to shoot for as many 200 point races as possible and 100,000 total points, hey, they could do that too. What a novel concept!

I guess I just don't see why only the hardcore GT5 crowd should be able to benefit from the seasonal events.

A crucisal aspect of games in general is competition. That's deep inside the human psyche. Most games are based on it. And you know what's fundamental ? Being better than others, ahead of them. That is not possible if everybody gets handed the gold trophy on a silver platter.

The whole planet works that way and always did. We would still sit on trees if it wasn't that way and that's one of the reasons communism didn't work.

Of course the pure driving of GT5 is awesome and fun, because the game mechanics work so well, but a game has to be motivating. More and better rewards for better players or players that try harder. What on earth is there that you don't understand ? I'm talking about the basic rules of game developing. Motivating challenges - you know it may not fair when only the best players of the world get to see everything in a game, but try to explain me why it should be fair that a casual player gets the same rewards as the one who worked on their skills for years ?

I mean this world isn't fair, but don't you like better grades in school for working harder than your classmates ? Get more money and bette rpositions in your job for working harder and longer ? Do you like it if your coworker who always leaves early gets promoted while you work your butt off until 9 p.m. ?

 

[PzR Slim]

I take everybody's points on board. At the end of the day completing a computer game yes should be fun but it should also be about how skilled you are at playing the game.

The seasonal events had breathed new life into the game for me. To complete them you had to have a certain ammount of skill at playing the game. Why does everybody need to be able to get gold? What's the point of having different prizes for finishing in different positions if you don't then limit people based on their skill but limit them based on their own morals? PD might of well as given everbody the EXP and credits as a matter of course and have the actual events as something else to do.

I guess it's just how the world is now, it's all about making people feel better about themselves. There is no disgrace in finishing 3rd or 4th in a race if it is a real challenge. But where is the satisfaction in finishing first if it's made this easy. And yes you can make it as hard as you want but no matter what anyone says, there will always be doubt about how people completed the challenges. At least the way it was if someone completed the challenge you knew exactly what they had to do to achieve it. PD had it about spot on in my opinion, it was enough of a challenge for the quick guys and finishing 2nd or 3rd was no disgrace for the rest. Now it's a free for all.

 

[sk0pe]

There is a reason they provided a 'typical opponent' button before the race when the garage is still accessible. So you can see how much hp and the car's your up against and adjust ur choice accordingly, you can make it as hard or as easy as you want for your self. If you use a gifted Zonda R in the sunday cup that's ur own choice.
The other way to do it, is just choose a similarly matched car from your garage and have a decent race. You can make it as hard or as easy as you want, it's your choice whether A-spec is 'ruined' ...

 

[GT Pro]

There are so many thousand things more worthy of ranting about than this. Don't be too mean to PD.

 

[CoolColJ]

There is a reason they provided a 'typical opponent' button before the race when the garage is still accessible. So you can see how much hp and the car's your up against and adjust ur choice accordingly, you can make it as hard or as easy as you want for your self. If you use a gifted Zonda R in the sunday cup that's ur own choice.
The other way to do it, is just choose a similarly matched car from your garage and have a decent race. You can make it as hard or as easy as you want, it's your choice whether A-spec is 'ruined' ...

What about tyres?

Here is the problem, if I'm a bad driver or didn't setup the car properly, the previous challanges let me know. There was a benchmark in place

A free for all does not do this. If I end up 3rd because I ran the car stock, I don't know if it's because my course knowledge or driving skills were at fault, or my tyres weren't grippy enough, or the car didn't have enough power and on it goes

 

[Sincx]

Dunno, I just see these events as free xp, and with the last events they might as well give it without having to do anything :S
Doesn't feel rewarding doing them anyway with or without stock settings.
I decided to just put some Race Softs under the car for each event and that was that..1st in 3rd lap each event.

Hardcore or casual, this game is great fun just setup and tuning wise far far from realistic. For the rest great fun and even the driving feels good and does give some simulator feeling but thats it.

 

[sk0pe]

What about tyres?

Here is the problem, if I'm a bad driver or didn't setup the car properly, the previous challanges let me know. There was a benchmark in place

A free for all does not do this. If I end up 3rd because I ran the car stock, I don't know if it's because my course knowledge or driving skills were at fault, or my tyres weren't grippy enough, or the car didn't have enough power and on it goes

I would like to think that if you ran a lap and came 3rd that you would know whether it was course knowledge or driver skill. If you don't notice errors whilst driving you can always watch yourself on the replay.

And i was more talking bout the whole ' A-spec ruined ' comments being thrown around, i haven't played the 3rd seasonal events yet, will do in 5min.

 

[CoolColJ]

The last series of events made me really learn the tracks inside out, especialy the Focus and GT-R one. Which is the basis of doing well in any driving game.

There is a difference between being able to drive on a track in a general way, with basic lines, and really knowing every corner and line to the exact angle and timing. Something that isn't always obvious until you have a benchmark to measure against

 

[the Interceptor]

There is a reason they provided a 'typical opponent' button before the race when the garage is still accessible. So you can see how much hp and the car's your up against and adjust ur choice accordingly, you can make it as hard or as easy as you want for your self.

Only problem is that you see the typical opponents, but not the level of tuning they have. So whether you stack up against cars in stock form or heavily tuned machines can only be found out during racing.

 

[xchristox]

So these were the redeeming feature in GT5 that was renewing people's faith in PD. Actual challenging races where you had to pay attention to upgrades and tuning. I loved them, as did many others based on comments in these forums.

Now all tuning restrictions have been removed from the 2nd round of events and the 3rd have none to start with.

Why is PD so out of touch with the end users? Being challenged to drive fast and consistent, and fine tune settings was an eye opener to how much detail is in the game. After struggling all week at 14 seconds behind the leader in the GT-R event to winning tonight at 9:45 pm EST (15 minutes before the 1st events closed) with a gap of 0.446 to the Ford in second place by just tuning the car right was amazing!

Now all that can easily be overlooked - it is easier to make an 800hp car and annihilate the competition than to work at improving skill. How many people new to GT5 will do just that and then wonder what all the fuss is about?

Rant over - back to birthday glitching and duping, something the seasonal events were enough to tear me away from!

So you rant about not having a challenge yet you do BD glitching and duping? Dude I agree they should have kept it as hard as it was, but you are just a big fat hypocrite!

 

[Khoin]

The events were easily in everyone's capability with SFR but required you actually try to drive cleanly. Maybe that's too much for some?

There's a thing though... I indeed needed SFR for the challenges. But I don't like using SFR. I'd rather use an overpowered vehicle than one with "magic grip". Not saying that having no limitations is the best way to go, but limitations that just force you to use magic driving aids instead of actual tuning isn't ideal either. I don't really get why SFR is always on in license test either btw, but that's another matter.

It's difficult for PD to get this right though... They can't really disallow driving aids, because that would alienate a lot of people who aren't looking for a "sim". But if they are allowed, then even with them on, it should be a challenge. And then, while some true hardcore racers will still be able to do it without, a lot (I suspect the majority of players) will not be able to gold the challenges without aids... It's a problem many games have and without choosing to focus solely on one specific type of player, you can't really "fix" it.

The best solution in my opinion is to reward the hardcore players with pure "status" rewards. So, make the challenge in such a way that all players (within reason) can complete it. But, reward those who do so in the most difficult circumstances with an extra reward (a trophy or something similar, something that does not affect gameplay in any way, so no-one misses out, but still shows that that player has achieved something hard).

 

[nickg07]

SFR or overpowered vehicle is not dissimilar. I don't like either but I am not afriad to admit I have used both on occasion.

But why remove the challenge for the good players. I don't like it. These events give you millions they should be really tough.

What next gold in license tests just for showing up?

 

[malex722]

I haven't had a chance to play the new seasonals yet, but it seems a shame that they've removed all the restrictions as that made the events for me. I'm not complaining though, I'll happily take the easy money and exp so I can finally get a FGT without grinding!

 

[Khoin]

SFR or overpowered vehicle is not dissimilar. I don't like either but I am not afriad to admit I have used both on occasion.

But why remove the challenge for the good players. I don't like it. These events give you millions they should be really tough.

What next gold in license tests just for showing up?

The difference, to me at least, is that with an overpowered vehicle, I'm at least still driving something "reallistic". SFR just feels weird to use in this game, to me, because it's so out of touch with reality. I admit that both give you an (unfair) advantage over the competition, so in that respect they are the same. But when I use 100 more BHP than the competition, I at least still have to be able to put that to good use by driving well, whereas SFR will allow me to drive a car similar to the competition better than I'm actually capable of... because of magic I can see it's all a bit potayto potahto, but to me there's a difference

 

[gt steve]

lol

 

[INSTG8R]

Dunno, I just see these events as free xp, and with the last events they might as well give it without having to do anything :S
Doesn't feel rewarding doing them anyway with or without stock settings.
I decided to just put some Race Softs under the car for each event and that was that..1st in 3rd lap each event.

Hardcore or casual, this game is great fun just setup and tuning wise far far from realistic. For the rest great fun and even the driving feels good and does give some simulator feeling but thats it.

I must admit having just checked these out and deciding to start with the one with the biggest payoff(or the one you expected to be the hardest) I have to agree.

I have never done anything to my C4 other than change tires for the conditions.
So it already had Race Softs on it from the last time I had used it in the Rally Specials. Easily beat it by well over 8 seconds without even putting any real effort in(TCS 1, ABS 1)

These events were great because they actually provided a challenge. They might as well just have gifted us the prize money and XP along with our paint chips and Museum Cards...

I really hope they put back on the restrictions again it actually made it a race not a typical "Get into first, watch the AI give up and just watch your lead increase until the checkered flag" or how about at least the DQ style of the license tests...SOME kind of restriction...

You had to for the most part with the previous seasonals fight your way from start to finish to get the podium, consider your tuning and setup. Now it seems they are no different than any other A-spec race.

 

[Greycap]

Actually, the NASCAR nurburgring event was as close to perfection as it gets. It was so damn hard, I was sweating from concentration. But as I passed the lead car.... I was just in heaven.

It was close to perfection... to you. That's the problem, while you found the difficulty level spot on I cruised two laps with one hand on the wheel and won by 20 seconds or so. If the race was hard enough for me to have to push for the entire two laps you'd rip your hair off trying to reach 3rd. And I'm quite a bit off the pace of the fastest guys around...

The only thing more annoying than whiners are "elitist"

There's one thing that beats them too, the people who have so thick anti-PD goggles on that they can't see a thing through them. The people who think "GT5 has thing X, it sucks" and when thing X is removed the opinion changes to "GT5 doesn't have thing X, it sucks". The people whose main gripe about GT5 seems to be it being GT5 and that's enough of an excuse to shove all the possible crap in the world at it. I'd be seriously surprised if some of them actually liked something in the game. Makes me wonder why they're still playing it in the first place!

 

[shirakawaa]

It's about time for PD to reintroduce a PP system based on car performance and driving assists, and to give prizes according to that.

 

[daan]

"officially ruined"?

If they are ruined, then they were ruined for you, by you. They're not ruined for me.

I shall continue to try and use a car that'll give me a good, close race.

 

[ghostrider135]

At the end of the day it still tells you your typical opponents so you can make an informed decision based on that alone, And another thing the more you spend upgrading a car to run these events the less you actually win by way of you'll have already spent some of your winnings beforehand

 

[analog]

It's about time for PD to reintroduce a PP system based on car performance and driving assists, and to give prizes according to that.

Hear hear, I really liked that system too in Prologue, it was balanced and fair and allowed personal choices within general limitations making clever set-ups and balanced compromises much more rewarding than simply maxing out horsepower.
It made outsmarting your opponent almost as much fun as outperforming them.

 

[highlightshadow]

Didn't previous GT's have a scaling factor in rewards .... the more your car was overpowered the less reward you got?

I can remember some races in GT3 or GT4 deliberately underpowering my car for a super close race and getting massive cash back on it.

I was almost certain that was the case .... even if it wasn't before it would be easily the most effective way of balancing the game out without just putting blanket restrictions on everything....

The harder you work for a win, the more you're rewarded ... seems almost too obvious

 

[birksy82]

"officially ruined"?

If they are ruined, then they were ruined for you, by you. They're not ruined for me.
.

Agreed 👍

 

[DrTrouserPlank]

Didn't previous GT's have a scaling factor in rewards .... the more your car was overpowered the less reward you got?

I can remember some races in GT3 or GT4 deliberately underpowering my car for a super close race and getting massive cash back on it.

I was almost certain that was the case .... even if it wasn't before it would be easily the most effective way of balancing the game out without just putting blanket restrictions on everything....

The harder you work for a win, the more you're rewarded ... seems almost too obvious

That'll be why PD didn't think of it then.

 

[column5]

I think it s great that they are giving us a variety--some events with restrictions and some without. I also think its great that the Round 2 events started off with restrictions which allowed us to do our best under those conditions (in my case, all silver) and now with the restrictions lifted I can go back and try for gold with some tuning if I so choose. Not only is it NOT ruined, its an EXCELLENT implementation.

 

[the Interceptor]

The funny thing is: I often don't understand PD. I don't understand the decisions they make. I was getting bored with GT5, and they introduced the seasonal races. This actually was the first opportunity since I started playing GT5 where I felt challenged and had good fun at the same time. With these events, they sprayed some new life into the already aging lady (from my point of view).

But every time I see this silver lining on the horizon, every time I think PD has finally found the right way and did something good, they come along, change something about it and completely devalue the original idea in the process. At times I think they have no real idea what people want.

Last time I felt like this was when they released the Academy Demo. Loads of people played this, loads of people had fun, and this could have been a great demo for GT5 at a time it was clear there won't be any freely available demo of the game. But when the time tables for the Academy were closed, they disabled the demo remotely - why? Why not just decouple it from the time tables and let it run as a demo? People were happy with it, this was a finished demo which wouldn't have needed any more work, and it was a great teaser for what was to come in GT5.

I just can't wrap my head around that, just like I can not grasp the thought behind the idea to remove tuning restrictions for the seasonal races. If they find them to difficult, why not just loosen the restrictions? Or, as proposed in this thread, scale the rewards for winning the events by the grade of applied tuning and used aides. This is an excellent idea, and if a bunch of gamers (no offense meant) can come up with it just like that, why can't a game designer?

 

[Adam41]

back to birthday glitching and duping, something the seasonal events were enough to tear me away from!

No one should moan the game is too easy when you're doing this. ^

"officially ruined"?

If they are ruined, then they were ruined for you, by you. They're not ruined for me.

I shall continue to try and use a car that'll give me a good, close race.

+1 👍👍

 

[tribolik]

No one should moan the game is too easy when you're doing this. ^



+1 👍👍

+1 👍👍👍