Significance of correct gear while cornering

[H3avyM3tal]

Hi,

I don't have the most technical understanding of cars, but what is the importance of being in the correct gear through the corner? Is there really a difference between 2nd and 3rd gear (or 1st and 2nd) through a corner?

For example: Is it better to take the last turn on Laguna SECA in 1st gear instead of 2nd? Or taking the hairpin on Suzuka in 2nd and not in 1st gear?

Is it better to take the first left>left corners on Laguna SECA in 2nd and not in 3rd? Does it matter if I'm in 60 on 2nd gear or 60 on 3rd gear while driving a powerful car?

What I'm getting at, is it affecting my car's handling for the worse in these situations?

 

[McClarenDesign]

Depends on the car. Ideally, you're looking for the optimal entry speed, in whatever proper gear, and optimum exit speed.

ideally, you'll want to be in the lower gear upon exit, to gain the maximun power and acceleration upon exit. However, if you find your car shifts up a gear immediately upon exit, try going in in the higher gear, and holding the gear through the turn, to avoid an unwanted shift.

Do some time trials, and find what works for you.

 

[Exorcet]

It's a matter of putting the most power down to the road. You want to be able to accelerate out of the corner as quickly as possible.

If you go through a corner in 2nd gear, and you can comfortable floor it on exit, you'll probably want to try it in first next time around, unless the shift point between 1 and 2 will hurt you (ie, it happens mid corner).

On the other hand, if your wheels are spinning in 2nd gear, going to 1st probably won't help. It might even be advisable to go to 3rd, but only if that doesn't cost you acceleration on the following straight (if there is one).

 

[Fobia]

I think op is talking about when off throttle.
Anyways, it's all down to the rate of decceleration, a car loses more speed in 2nd than in 4th so allowing for better cornering in 2nd, 4th would bring oversteer.

 

[GTP_geoff]

Making use of the correct gear applies engine braking and helps the car to be more stable rather than applying the brakes too much.

Obviously this is on entry but also sets you up for the exit as the revs are naturally correct for good acceleration.

So in conclusion, you do need to pick the correct gear for corners as the gear either side will provide poor/too much engine braking and slow exit acceleration.

 

[greg666]

The gear change depends on the car as they are all different.
However for me, I will use which ever gear have higher rpm, but not as high as to the redline of the car. What I wanting is to have a smooth in and out of the corner without lossing rpm and speed/momentum.

 

[research]

sometimes it is advisable to stay in the higher gear and lose a few RPM's of peak horsepower and utilize the bulk of the torque curve- not to mention saving 2 shifts. This, however, is dependent on whether or not GT5 accellerates the vehicles using the torque curve instead of hp.

Also, the brakes are the most powerful devices of your car. Use them to slow the car- and downshift only to be in the desired exit gear. You can skip gears from 6th down to 1st at the last second if you're comfortable doing so. Most of us are just used to downshifting through each gear as our muscle memory has developed with the motions through the gate pattern- me included. Shifting from fifth to second just feels weird and I still have work to do rowing through all gears competently.

For years I believed that using the engine/gears to assist the brakes was faster. After reading Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley, I have been shown the error of my uninformed ways. No harm, no foul.

 

[phil_75]

Makes hardly any difference, put a GT500 car in auto even, move the slider till you are on the redline at your fastest on a track (FUJI for example), record lap time, now go move the slider till your about 50mph over your top speed, lap almost identical?

Same with all this "shift up at peak power", get a car that makes max power way before red line and shift at the "optimal time" now do the same track but don't shift (or put in auto) until redline, same laptime?

 

[H3avyM3tal]

So in theory it matters ?

Also, next question - will being in the lower gear make the car turn better (again, the difference between 2nd and 3rd gear)?

 

[Grand Prix]

So in theory it matters ?

Also, next question - will being in the lower gear make the car turn better (again, the difference between 2nd and 3rd gear)?

Yes it will. But whether you want to do this or not depends on the car you're driving. If you're driving something like an Alfa Giula Sprint GTA, or other low-powered, tricky sportscar, you'll want to corner in the lower gear, for more torque and therefore, more control over the rear end in a slide. If you take a 3rd gear corner in 4th you might not be able to control the slide.

If you're driving a RUF Yellowbird there could be too much torque in 3rd. Unless of course you want to initiate a bit of oversteer (which it will do in eagerness, ). 4th will be plenty of torque and no need for worrying about an upshift unbalancing the car on exit.

 

[XPLOSV]

I think your reading the gear indicator in GT5 wrong. Yes, it does advise you which gear you should be in for the corner, but it should be used more as a speed indicator.

For instance, a corner at a track, advised to be taken at 4th gear might mean its taken at 160km/h given the gearing of that particular car. You will notice that with the same setup, if you shorten the gear ratios, it will now advise you to take it on 5th perhaps, but you will find its still a 160km/h corner.

So to answer your question, it doesn't really matter which gear you are in from a mechanical point of view which gear your in. Strictly speaking, being in a lower gear will give you slightly better engine braking (though the percentage of force given via the brakes makes engine braking almost negligible in everything except bikes).

Having said that, gear selection during cornering is VERY important as the correct gear means you will exit the corner at the best possible speed. And corner exist speed is very important as we all know.

 

[J91patriz]

If I can give my opinion I agree with those saying that the gear indicator is not helpful. In my experience and with my driving style I've found that the indicator tells you to shift one gear too low in several occassions, and with a gear too low it's easier to spin.

Then it' also true that the righ gear depends on each engine. E.g. driving an american muscle car you can generaly use an higer gear than using a car that revs higher (an example of this could be a non turbocharged engine).

Finally I've been riding bikes for some years now, and engine brake was important, so I tend to use it in game as well, but after reading what some users have said I'm gonna try this new method of shifting at the last moment.

 

[Lambob]

Nothing unsettles a car worse, in GT5, than downshifting gears into peak power, or RPM, while turning into Apex. If you can tame the car, then good for you, but do expect worse handling than to keep car settled better in the higher gear.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is a very complicated subject as there is no one rule that covers ever car/tire combination on every corner on every track. Downshifting to the peak power band can unsettle the car on some corners, so with a little practice you can learn to trail brake down to the apex in one higher gear to keep the car more settled, and then shift to the proper lower gear at the last instant before acceleration.

Generally you want to be in whatever gear is best suited to the power band of the car when hitting the gas pedal. So if the power band is best at 6-8000 rpm and you are exiting a corner at 7500 rpm, you'll likely better off shifting up one gear to avoid the extra shift. Exiting on full power for a half second and then upshifting is counter productive in my experience.

Experience and seat time will help you a lot.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Depends on the car and your style. NA cars may be able to get away with you holding a gear through a turn, while a turbo may require dropping a gear to keep that turbo going.

But of course, not all cars follow the same characteristics. Your best bet is just drive the car and learn its habits, power bands, etc.

In your example for laguna seca, I usually take that turn in 2nd. Sometimes the torque from first gear in a powerful car can make that corner into a slip and slide.

 

[XEPEGTP]

Depends, on the turn, on the moment.

For example the Loop turn in Cape Ring, i think is a 3rd gear turn at high rev, but i take it at 4th in midrev because i find it helps to control oversteer in the long corner, but adds alot of understeer as a consequence.

Most of the time being in the "correct" gear just means being as high in the rev range as possible to keep yourself in the powerband and optimize performance.

But in the rain or when driving high powered cars on bald tires(losing grip) shifting early before the redline can help curb or eliminate torque oversteer\instability etc.

Laguna Seca first turn, i take in 2nd and feather the throttle quickly to establish grip and try to floor it by the exit. Taking this in 3rd(unless its a race tranny with short gears) would cause alot of understeer and prevent me from accelerating properly due to being under-revved.

 

[J91patriz]

I'm not sure whether it was about me but anyway I should clarify what I've written before.

It's true that shifting down at higher revs and power peak unsettles the car, but what I meant was a gradual shifting through gears (that's what I do with bikes at least) and I found interesting what @research has written about shifting all gears at the last moment just right before entering in a corner.

On the other hand sometimes I find more annoying having a high gear at the entry of some corners.
It varies a lot accordingly on the car you use (and more importantly the type of engine), but sometimes having a high gear tends to make the car go wide and shifting down helps it keep it in line.

I'm currently using a mp4-12c during online races and with this car I can feel this effect of understeer controlled by engine break quite a lot (I use a driving force pro to be more precise). But in this case I admit I haven't found the right setting for the car.

 

[QB1o]

Depends on the car and the corner, for example the premium zonda thingy or Mclaren F1 work best for me if i never use first gear and if i shift early out of some bends, just because i'm less likely to spin that way.

It depends also on weather, traffic, tyre compound, road camber and a dozen other things!

 

[abaxas]

Gear ratios are probably one of the most important but little understood parts of the game. You can tune for top laptimes, corner exit or better 'repeatabilty'. All depending on what you wish to achieve.

Tune your car so it fits your driving style.

 

[nasanu]

Gear ratios are probably one of the most important but little understood parts of the game. You can tune for top laptimes, corner exit or better 'repeatabilty'. All depending on what you wish to achieve.

Tune your car so it fits your driving style.

Most important?

Gears are really the least important. Tyres are most important, then power to weight, then aero, then suspension, then gearing. But anyway..

 

[research]

Exiting on full power for a half second and then upshifting is counter productive in my experience.

NA cars may be able to get away with you holding a gear through a turn, while a turbo may require dropping a gear to keep that turbo going.

^ 2 excellent points. 👍

..but sometimes having a high gear tends to make the car go wide and shifting down helps it keep it in line.

This happens to me a lot- I'll find myself pushing (understeering) wide before mid-corner and will often shift down a gear lower to transfer weight and bring more bite to the front tires. Now, of course, by the time I've realized that I'm understeering it's too late to notch that corner in the "fast" column. I should've braked earlier and will hopefully not repeat such mistakes on each succeeding lap.


Slow in, fast out.

.

 

[abaxas]

Most important?

Gears are really the least important. Tyres are most important, then power to weight, then aero, then suspension, then gearing. But anyway..

The reason why gearing is so important as it can be used as TC for free, when TC is banned in a room.

Most people simply dont understand what you can do with gearing.

 

[J91patriz]

You can skip gears from 6th down to 1st at the last second if you're comfortable doing so. For years I believed that using the engine/gears to assist the brakes was faster.
After reading Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley, I have been shown the error of my uninformed ways. No harm, no foul.

I was interested in that part could you tell me more about that Speed secrets if you don't mind? also via pm, if not publicly thx 👍

It might be true that gear ratios are the final aspect you tune in a car, but it is also correct to say that to keep a decent pace you need to have them properly set.

Imagine to race with your car on a small track with short straights. Even if you have a good set up, with very long gear ratios you'll be likely to have big issues coming out of corners. Of course the same example could be made if there is a fast track (e.g. Monza) and you have short ratios.

 

[Exorcet]

sometimes it is advisable to stay in the higher gear and lose a few RPM's of peak horsepower and utilize the bulk of the torque curve- not to mention saving 2 shifts. This, however, is dependent on whether or not GT5 accellerates the vehicles using the torque curve instead of hp.

What does torque have to do with it? The power curve and torque curve are equivalent. By using one, you are using the other.

It's just simpler to use power. The whole point of gearing is to maximize your horsepower, and thus your acceleration.

Also, the brakes are the most powerful devices of your car. Use them to slow the car- and downshift only to be in the desired exit gear. You can skip gears from 6th down to 1st at the last second if you're comfortable doing so. Most of us are just used to downshifting through each gear as our muscle memory has developed with the motions through the gate pattern- me included. Shifting from fifth to second just feels weird and I still have work to do rowing through all gears competently.

For years I believed that using the engine/gears to assist the brakes was faster. After reading Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley, I have been shown the error of my uninformed ways. No harm, no foul.

Skipping gears doesn't help [in a real car]. It's best to shift down as soon as you're able to without blowing the engine (which can't happen in GT5, so ironically, it's best to jam down to a low gear and kill your engine so that you're not transmitting any power to the wheels that would fight your brakes).

Makes hardly any difference, put a GT500 car in auto even, move the slider till you are on the redline at your fastest on a track (FUJI for example), record lap time, now go move the slider till your about 50mph over your top speed, lap almost identical?

Same with all this "shift up at peak power", get a car that makes max power way before red line and shift at the "optimal time" now do the same track but don't shift (or put in auto) until redline, same laptime?

Being at redline at the fastest point on the track is not necessarily the best way to go.

Also, the benefit that you see from proper gearing depends on the car's powerband. A car with a perfectly flat power curve does not care what gear you're using. Try messing with the Escudo's gearing, you'll certainly notice a difference.

So in theory it matters ?

Also, next question - will being in the lower gear make the car turn better (again, the difference between 2nd and 3rd gear)?

Yes it does matter. Your selected gear does not have any effect on how tight your car can turn, or how quickly it can change direction, but it does effect how much power can be transmitted through the driven wheels, and it determines how much weight transfer you get from engine braking.

If you want to slow down, you should be in the lowest gear possible, this maximizing engine braking (engine braking can be thought of as how fast your car slows down when you're not pressing the brakes or the gas). So if you come into a corner a little too fast and you need to drop a tiny bit of speed, you could drop down a gear to help tighten the turn. Changing gears is not what tightens the turn, slowing down is.

When exiting the corner, you want maximum acceleration. But your tires can only transmit so much power. Basically, you need to use as close to 100% of your tires' traction as possible. Either do this by modulating the gas pedal, or by shifting up to a gear that does not spin your wheels severely, but is still in the power band.

Yes it will. But whether you want to do this or not depends on the car you're driving. If you're driving something like an Alfa Giula Sprint GTA, or other low-powered, tricky sportscar, you'll want to corner in the lower gear, for more torque and therefore, more control over the rear end in a slide. If you take a 3rd gear corner in 4th you might not be able to control the slide.

If you're driving a RUF Yellowbird there could be too much torque in 3rd. Unless of course you want to initiate a bit of oversteer (which it will do in eagerness, ). 4th will be plenty of torque and no need for worrying about an upshift unbalancing the car on exit.

Just to avoid confusion, "torque" as used above is interchangeable with "power" or "horsepower".

 

[Ronald6]

Most important?

Gears are really the least important. Tyres are most important, then power to weight, then aero, then suspension, then gearing. But anyway..

??
Let's hop into a couple if stock 69' Camaro and take a lap around N'ring. Even if you change the P/W ratio and aero and suspension and all I changed was the tyranny I would fly by you.

Gearing is VERY important.

 

[Grand Prix]

Just to avoid confusion, "torque" as used above is interchangeable with "power" or "horsepower".

Yeah, referring to the total torque through the transmission. (The transmission multiplies torque, how much depends on the gear).

👍

 

[esoxhntr]

ideally, you want to be in the gear that puts your rpms just entering the meat of the power band on exit. </thread>

some people will even tune their transmissions for a track (corner(s)). ie. a track has a lot of turns that a driver takes at say 65mph, they will tune their ratios so that 2nd or 3rd places the engine RPMs at the right place for exiting those corners.

those of you suggesting to use a higher gear because your tires spin on exit are just using this to band-aide the fact that you are too heavy on the throttle.

 

[Grand Prix]

ideally, you want to be in the gear that puts your rpms just entering the meat of the power band on exit. </thread>

some people will even tune their transmissions for a track (corner(s)). ie. a track has a lot of turns that a driver takes at say 65mph, they will tune their ratios so that 2nd or 3rd places the engine RPMs at the right place for exiting those corners.

those of you suggesting to use a higher gear because your tires spin on exit are just using this to band-aide the fact that you are too heavy on the throttle.

You could enter in the lower gear and try to manhandle the car for a split second, but why worry about it? (unless the gap between gears is huge, when driving something like, say, a Mazda Carol 360 Deluxe Yeah, not really worth going with the higher gear in that case.)

If the shift point comes right after the apex, I won't enter the corner in that lower gear. Again, it depends on the situation. Of course you should alter the individual gears to make the most of powerband on exit etc, but on tracks like the Nordscheliefe with so many different types of corners, this might not be possible all of the time. I think we're mostly discussing a scenario where you have to shift in the middle of the corner if you entered with a gear that's too short.


There are many variables to consider, and ultimately, the right answer to this question is to use whatever gear works best for you and the situation. Some prefer to stay off the throttle a bit to control the car, and shift in the middle of the corner exit, which is fine (perhaps a bit bad for tire wear if you accidentally put too much power down, but whatever floats your boat). Some prefer to drive through the corner in one gear with gradual throttle increase. Do whatever gives you the best result. 👍

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

For me it depends on the whole car, the balance, the grip, the weight, the Kind of power I have ETC. If I have a LOT of power, I come out of a turn at a low RPM so I can use the torque, and If i'm in a kei car I am tickling the limiter

 

[deadcat777]

Hi,

I don't have the most technical understanding of cars, but what is the importance of being in the correct gear through the corner? Is there really a difference between 2nd and 3rd gear (or 1st and 2nd) through a corner?

For example: Is it better to take the last turn on Laguna SECA in 1st gear instead of 2nd? Or taking the hairpin on Suzuka in 2nd and not in 1st gear?

Is it better to take the first left>left corners on Laguna SECA in 2nd and not in 3rd? Does it matter if I'm in 60 on 2nd gear or 60 on 3rd gear while driving a powerful car?

What I'm getting at, is it affecting my car's handling for the worse in these situations?

You can make use of engine brake over steer to get you through tight corner.