So wut happen to the drag racing?

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by jcole
Speaking from experience, I would say you're missing some.

Drag racing starts at the pits, adjusting your tuning (timing, fuel, suspension, clutch etc)

Then you have to figure out how long to burn your tires for.

The next skill is the hardest, and few are good at this one, Treeing your opponent. Few can cut a good reaction time, and fewer still with consistency. Once you're on the gas go have to be ready to feather the throttle, I had a suprise a few weeks ago where someone left some fluid down the track, and the staff didn't catch it, I had to pedal the gas well into third on slicks.

If you're running a manual, smooth quick shifting will make or break a run (and other things), again this is a skill. Your shift points are another important key.

Get all this right and you will be quick for your car. Do ANYthing wrong, and you can lose .5 of a second pretty easy. For stockish cars that's 5 carlengths, hell .01 is usually what it comes down to in bracket racing.

Not trying to convert any of you over to drag racing, it's either fun or it isnt, just trying to disprove the myth that it's only for no skilled rednecks who only know how to step on the gas.

Drag racing is to road racing what Weight lifters are to Gymnasts. Both are cool to do, But neither would do very well in the other's shoes.

I don't see anything in my post that is either wrong or misleading when put in the context of how drag racing would apply to GT3. There are primary skills in drag racing which involve the clutch and throttle. Then there are strategies for setting up the car and where and how to stage.

My post simply highlights the fact that GT3 is weak when it comes to giving you control over any of these factors... factors that in real life would matter.

Nowhere in my post did I mention rednecks. Nor did I imply that people who drag race have no skill.

Sounds to me like you read what you wanted to read, rather than understand what I was saying. Hey whatever floats your boat, buddy.


///M-Spec

 

[Majin SSJ Eric]

I say bring on the drag racing. I realize that it couldn't be a great drag racing sim b/c of limitations in controls and what not. But let's give the GT crew some credit here. Everything Kaz Yamauchi touches turns to gold in my opinion. If he wants to add drag racing to GT, let him. You will not be disappointed, I promise you!

 

[unkn0wn]

what i really didnt get in GT2 was, WHY DID THEY PUT THE HKS 180SX AND THE HKS R33 IN THERE? those things were impossible to drive on. they were pointless, other then for going 1k hp.

 

[ving]

Originally posted by DODGE the VIPER
Heh, Mr. Asian dude, there's a reason why you should spell...If you don't want to get banned spell at least so that people can read it.

who is this "Mr Asian d00d" of which u speak?

plz excuse my ignorance

 

[jcole]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
I don't see anything in my post that is either wrong or misleading when put in the context of how drag racing would apply to GT3. There are primary skills in drag racing which involve the clutch and throttle. Then there are strategies for setting up the car and where and how to stage.

My post simply highlights the fact that GT3 is weak when it comes to giving you control over any of these factors... factors that in real life would matter.

Nowhere in my post did I mention rednecks. Nor did I imply that people who drag race have no skill.

Sounds to me like you read what you wanted to read, rather than understand what I was saying. Hey whatever floats your boat, buddy.


///M-Spec

Nah, I was just listing all the required things to run hard. Most of that was not directed at you. Saying that the primaries of drag racing are clutch and throttle control is bogus though, as 90% of the cars RACING (for points, not friday night test n tune) are not traction limited, so they can floor it off the line and almost have no chance of spinning, and most also use no clutch whatsoever. the ones that do, drop the clutch off the rev limiter.

 

[Vasco]

azndrifter318 ving, I just don't like people who call themself "azn".

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by jcole
Nah, I was just listing all the required things to run hard. Most of that was not directed at you. Saying that the primaries of drag racing are clutch and throttle control is bogus though, as 90% of the cars RACING (for points, not friday night test n tune) are not traction limited, so they can floor it off the line and almost have no chance of spinning, and most also use no clutch whatsoever. the ones that do, drop the clutch off the rev limiter.

Except that I wasn't talking about the purpose built drag racers. Why would I have been? This is a GT3 forum, and thus, most the focus is placed on street cars. Street cars with clutches, and road course suspensions and tires that are very traction limited.

Go do a 400 meter machine test in GT3. Now, aside from setting up the car (good gear ratios, suspension, etc), tell me, what is the primary skill required of the driver/player for a good ET?


///M-Spec

 

[jcole]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Except that I wasn't talking about the purpose built drag racers. Why would I have been? This is a GT3 forum, and thus, most the focus is placed on street cars. Street cars with clutches, and road course suspensions and tires that are very traction limited.

Go do a 400 meter machine test in GT3. Now, aside from setting up the car (good gear ratios, suspension, etc), tell me, what is the primary skill required of the driver/player for a good ET?


///M-Spec

holding down the gas and shift points, but you were talking about real life cars, because you mentioned

"Drag racing in real life is based on two skills: modulation of the clutch and modulation of the throttle. Everything else is the car."

You were talking about real life. I drag race in real life and what you said was completly innacurate. You try to put one of my cars don't the track under full power and I promise you would not have an easy time doing it if you think that it's all throttle control and clutch control. Trying to keep the car straight with the front wheels in the air is a pretty scary task !

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by jcole
holding down the gas and shift points, but you were talking about real life cars, because you mentioned

"Drag racing in real life is based on two skills: modulation of the clutch and modulation of the throttle. Everything else is the car."

You were talking about real life. I drag race in real life and what you said was completly innacurate. You try to put one of my cars don't the track under full power and I promise you would not have an easy time doing it if you think that it's all throttle control and clutch control. Trying to keep the car straight with the front wheels in the air is a pretty scary task !

I was talking about the real life counterparts to the car you will find in the game ie. street production cars. Why on earth you might conclude I was talking about a Pro Stock or Top Fuel car I have no idea.

But since this seem to be important to you, I will conceed that my comment would not apply to purpose built drag racing cars. I will also happily conceed that the driver skills and set up requirements for this type of race is not accurately reflected in GT3... which was my point to begin with.

How's that?


///M-Spec

 

[jcole]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
I was talking about the real life counterparts to the car you will find in the game ie. street production cars. Why on earth you might conclude I was talking about a Pro Stock or Top Fuel car I have no idea.

But since this seem to be important to you, I will conceed that my comment would not apply to purpose built drag racing cars. I will also happily conceed that the driver skills and set up requirements for this type of race is not accurately reflected in GT3... which was my point to begin with.

How's that?


///M-Spec

Cool, I'm not trying to fight with you. Just defending my sport BTW I'm also building an autocross car (de-tuning the 575hp car)

Anyways, Many cars, straight from the showroom floor are quicker in their Automatic variant vs. the manual transmission...

Corvette, Camaro and Transam, TT Supra and the TT 300zx are all quicker at the strip with auto...

The Buick GN was also auto.

Also, both of my cars are street cars. Almost every Drag car in the NHRA/IHRA classes use slicks and automatics, this goes from 14 second bracket guys to Quick running factory stock guys.

 

[///M-Spec]

I never meant to give any impression that I marginalize the skill and know-how needed for your sport. It is unique in the world of motorsports and has its own rules and techniques for success.

Good luck with your autocross car. You should have no trouble giving it some handling to go with that power. Since most auto-x's limit you to DOT approved R-comp tires (no traction), be careful putting 500+ hp down in those tight areas or you'll spin right quick.

A lot of drag racing people tell me automatics are the popular choice. Everything I know about transmissions tells me this can't be so. Are they actually faster, or is it because they run more consistantly?


///M-Spec

 

[jcole]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
I never meant to give any impression that I marginalize the skill and know-how needed for your sport. It is unique in the world of motorsports and has its own rules and techniques for success.

Good luck with your autocross car. You should have no trouble giving it some handling to go with that power. Since most auto-x's limit you to DOT approved R-comp tires (no traction), be careful putting 500+ hp down in those tight areas or you'll spin right quick.

A lot of drag racing people tell me automatics are the popular choice. Everything I know about transmissions tells me this can't be so. Are they actually faster, or is it because they run more consistantly?


///M-Spec

Yeah I'm de-tuning that car a lot, put a much smaller carb on it, took off the power adder etc. Should make around 315 horsepower at the wheels n/a

I'm not even sure if I'm gonna run a race compound tire, it's just for fun and not in competition, and because the motor and suspension will be far from stock, it will be in a class where it will be way outmatched. I might just leave it on street tires and try my best.

As for Auto transmissions, You can't shift quicker than a good auto. Period. Now match it up with a proper torque converter which grabs somewhere around your peak torque RPM, and it will launch just as hard as a manual car wilth a clutch drop.

With a shift kit and a manual valve body (so you tell it when to shift) it will shift hard and when you want it to.

Couple benefits

1) Consistency
2) Quicker shifting, no more miss shifts
3) When it shifts, you don't unload the torque from the tires and then add torque to them again like in a manual. With quicker cars this gets to be a problem because you're throwing the weight of the car around, making it unstable. This can unload the weight from the rear tires causing wheelspin. a buddy of mine tagged the wall a few months ago in this scenario with his 6-speed camaro making around 450 horsepower on slicks.
4) Turbo goes which have lots of lag will spool up quicker with an auto. they can footbrake the car (gas and brake at the same time) and begin to gain turbo pressure before the green light drops
Disadvantage :

Automatics rob a little bit more power than manuals. You can figure about 15-18% of the power is lost through a manual transmission. (a 450horsepower viper only puts out around 390 - 400 at the wheels, a stock 225hp mustang puts out around 195 at the wheels)

With an automatic you're looking at around 20 - 24% loss, but the other benefits will begin to outweight the disadvantages especially with cars in the mid 11 second range, and cars with a power adder.

15 second civics will be slower with an auto
13 second mustangs will be slower with an auto
11 second mustangs with traction problems can be quicker with a well set up auto.

Either way unless you're talking about ferrari tiptronic transmissions,

Autos have no place on a track that involves acceleration and decel

 

[///M-Spec]

That's interesting stuff. I can see 1, 3 and 4.. but I've never seen an auto that can shift faster than a good manual driver. I guess it all depends on how the torque converter is tuned.

Also, I would have guessed that since most autos are 4 speeds, you have a hard time picking optimal gear ratios once the engine output gets peaky? But I guess with American V8s that pretty much never happens.


///M-Spec

 

[Solid Lifters]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
That's interesting stuff. I can see 1, 3 and 4.. but I've never seen an auto that can shift faster than a good manual driver. I guess it all depends on how the torque converter is tuned.

Also, I would have guessed that since most autos are 4 speeds, you have a hard time picking optimal gear ratios once the engine output gets peaky? But I guess with American V8s that pretty much never happens.


///M-Spec

Just to make an note, the Ferrari 360 GT Le Mans race car with that automatic transmission can change gears in .009 seconds.

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by Solid Lifters
Just to make an note, the Ferrari 360 GT Le Mans race car with that automatic transmission can change gears in .009 seconds.

Yes, but those are based on traditional manual transmissions with hydraulic or pneumatic clutch actuation. Plus, those race cars have straight cut gears and don't exactly go easy on the powertrain.

The automatics I'm thinking of have hydro-matic torque convertors and bulky planetary gearsets.


///M-Spec

 

[ewok]

true true