Soft or Hard

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TrialMountain
CH will teach you A LOT about exiting corners for speed, how to exit STRAIGHT and FAST with the least wiggle. AND because the friction coefficient is low, you can run SUPER low spring rates (like 4.0 and less) with high damper. (but this is tire talk so I wont get into why that is so awesome)
I really wish you would...suspension tuning is the lost coefficient to all this CH vs CS bad blood and you're only one besides me that has made mention of it..a soft suspension setup w/ CSs will cause too much grip and not allow effective drifting...a hard setup on CHs and it will indeed feel like sliding on ice...I too am guilty of not using logic and thinking that putting CMs and CSs on my CH tuned car will yield similar results...if anybody doesn't believe me, next time you're in a public lobby and a sports or racing-tired "drifter" comes in, ask him about his suspension setup, then marvel @ the extremely high spring and damper rates as well as the grossly exaggerated camber and toe settings, not to mention the completely slammed, "herrafrush", "I don't need no frickin suspension travel" ride height...lol
 
lol okayyy then, if you really want to know, I figure it's like this . . .

the reason I said comfuh hawd was great for learning how to exit a corner with speed is because it is somewhat difficult to do this. I believe that the things you learn from preventing and recovering from slides are the same skills you use to controll and extend them. entering/throwing/hucking drifts is a separate skill from maintaining and exiting and transitioning. if you can get very good at non-drift racing on comfuh hawd, you'll have that much more understanding of weight transfer, throttle control, steering input, the whole deal.
when you really know what is going on in the last 7/8ths of a corner, THEN you go work on your entry.


now about the suspension . . . to non-drift race on comfuh hawd, you need to tune the suspension.

- springs - they SUPPORT and TRANSFER the weight of your vehicle
- dampers - they regulate only how quickly this happens.

just imagine dampers as a tube of fluid and you are trying to mash a disk at the end of a rod down it. . . the lower the damper settings the bigger of a hole is in the disk, and the faster you can push the disk down the tube, yet, without springs, a vehicle would simply bottom out.

Now.

if you have a sticky tire and you turn, what happens ?
well because of INTERTIA, (tendency of objects in motion to stay in motion) your car's body will attempt to continue travelling in the direction it was going, prior to your steering input.
as you (should) obviously know, the car can't simply separate from the wheels and keep going, even though it is trying to, so it presses into the springs.
the inside springs extend as the car tries to move towards the outside, and the outside springs compress as they restrain the car from flying away into a pile of twisted burning wreckage. ALL the while, the grip of the tires (μ) is not exceeded and they are able to keep everything on the road.(because I said "if we have a sticky tire")

What I am trying to say : the body roll you experience is directly proportional to the grip of your tires and inversely proportional to the spring setting. you could represent it like "BR = grip/springs" -> if you have a high grip / low springs = you get a big number for body roll. if you have a low grip and high springs you get a very small fraction (which is a low number . . . .)

which is another way of saying, the grippier tires, the higher spring rate you will use to experience the same ammount of body roll
OR
the weaker your tires grip, the weaker springs you will need to still experience body roll.
OR
what we are more interested in is:

the weaker your tires grip, the less spring rate you require to prevent extreme body roll.

if you're still reading but think this is all stupid, I AM getting to a point . . . here it is :

a great drift car is a great track car. because of the unique demands of drift-style driving vs race-style driving, your great track car will need to have certain suspension/handling characteristics that non-drifting track cars may not have/want

1. any corner you want to drift, you want to be able to initiate teh drift without hassel, simply steer away quickly and steer in sharply, throttle and counter steer. if you have too much body roll, your car will either not break traction at all, or it will break traction abruptly springing into a spin when you steer in sharply.
if you want no body roll in this scenario(initiation), you can either slam your car and crank the springs to the max . . . or you can just increase the dampers so that when you do quick inputs, the suspension does not react.
a non-drifting track car would likely use somewhat lower damper rates to NOT have this effect, especially in curvy braking zones ;p

2. exiting a corner with speed, under power.
if you chose to:
slam your car and crank the springs to the max, any time your car is sideways, even slightly, every time you use the gas it will increase your angle. if you are trying to exit a corner and complete a drift and accelerate, this could be difficult because you will have to let off everything when you are pointing at the straight, wait a moment for your car to start rolling in this direction, and ease onto the gas . . . and even then you will increase angle slightly and you will have to countersteer side to side cancelling the fishtail.
but because you are a pro CH drifter you probably just change directions continuously and keep fishtailing down that straight to make it look like you are showing off how you can drift even when there's no corner to drift. (but actually everyone with any driving experience can tell it's just a lousy cover up for deficient suspension tuning prowess)

OR ! you can use a lower spring rate with the high dampers, so that you can ease off the throttle as you complete the corner, slowly and smoothly hooking up your drift into full throttle acceleration and nail that next section soopah fas! HOO-AH!

Conclusion : The lowest spring rate you can get away with is the sweet spot.

( remember : body roll = grip / spring )
 
Last edited:
I use sports for all of my drift cars, I use the soft for very powerful cars, and medium for stock, and slightly tuned cars, hard tires are just a bit too easy IMO.
 
I use racing hards.......




<trollsmile.jpg>

then you'll probably need to go REALLY fast, you'll want a LOT of horsepower, and you'll want REALLY hard springs .. . the problem is the dampers only go so high, so with springs so strong whenever you depress them they will STILL rebound like instantly even if your dampers are 10 ! ! !
 
So what your saying... I need my springs over 9000, but my shocks can't handle it... BECAUSE IT'S OVER 9000?!?!!?1!11? *crushes settings sheet*
 
So what your saying... I need my springs over 9000, but my shocks can't handle it... BECAUSE IT'S OVER 9000?!?!!?1!11? *crushes settings sheet*


There's always the Lexus ENEOS GT500 race car...that thing over steers and eats tires like no one's business. :lol:
 
So I've been trying to drift with hard sports, and racing tires, and it feels.......awkward, like my car is floating along, i'll stick with medium and soft.
 
TrialMountain
lol okayyy then, if you really want to know, I figure it's like this . . .

the reason I said comfuh hawd was great for learning how to exit a corner with speed is because it is somewhat difficult to do this. I believe that the things you learn from preventing and recovering from slides are the same skills you use to controll and extend them. entering/throwing/hucking drifts is a separate skill from maintaining and exiting and transitioning. if you can get very good at non-drift racing on comfuh hawd, you'll have that much more understanding of weight transfer, throttle control, steering input, the whole deal.
when you really know what is going on in the last 7/8ths of a corner, THEN you go work on your entry.

now about the suspension . . . to non-drift race on comfuh hawd, you need to tune the suspension.

- springs - they SUPPORT and TRANSFER the weight of your vehicle
- dampers - they regulate only how quickly this happens.

just imagine dampers as a tube of fluid and you are trying to mash a disk at the end of a rod down it. . . the lower the damper settings the bigger of a hole is in the disk, and the faster you can push the disk down the tube, yet, without springs, a vehicle would simply bottom out.

Now.

if you have a sticky tire and you turn, what happens ?
well because of INTERTIA, (tendency of objects in motion to stay in motion) your car's body will attempt to continue travelling in the direction it was going, prior to your steering input.
as you (should) obviously know, the car can't simply separate from the wheels and keep going, even though it is trying to, so it presses into the springs.
the inside springs extend as the car tries to move towards the outside, and the outside springs compress as they restrain the car from flying away into a pile of twisted burning wreckage. ALL the while, the grip of the tires (&mu;) is not exceeded and they are able to keep everything on the road.(because I said "if we have a sticky tire")

What I am trying to say : the body roll you experience is directly proportional to the grip of your tires and inversely proportional to the spring setting. you could represent it like "BR = grip/springs" -> if you have a high grip / low springs = you get a big number for body roll. if you have a low grip and high springs you get a very small fraction (which is a low number . . . .)

which is another way of saying, the grippier tires, the higher spring rate you will use to experience the same ammount of body roll
OR
the weaker your tires grip, the weaker springs you will need to still experience body roll.
OR
what we are more interested in is:

the weaker your tires grip, the less spring rate you require to prevent extreme body roll.

if you're still reading but think this is all stupid, I AM getting to a point . . . here it is :

a great drift car is a great track car. because of the unique demands of drift-style driving vs race-style driving, your great track car will need to have certain suspension/handling characteristics that non-drifting track cars may not have/want

1. any corner you want to drift, you want to be able to initiate teh drift without hassel, simply steer away quickly and steer in sharply, throttle and counter steer. if you have too much body roll, your car will either not break traction at all, or it will break traction abruptly springing into a spin when you steer in sharply.
if you want no body roll in this scenario(initiation), you can either slam your car and crank the springs to the max . . . or you can just increase the dampers so that when you do quick inputs, the suspension does not react.
a non-drifting track car would likely use somewhat lower damper rates to NOT have this effect, especially in curvy braking zones ;p

2. exiting a corner with speed, under power.
if you chose to:
slam your car and crank the springs to the max, any time your car is sideways, even slightly, every time you use the gas it will increase your angle. if you are trying to exit a corner and complete a drift and accelerate, this could be difficult because you will have to let off everything when you are pointing at the straight, wait a moment for your car to start rolling in this direction, and ease onto the gas . . . and even then you will increase angle slightly and you will have to countersteer side to side cancelling the fishtail.
but because you are a pro CH drifter you probably just change directions continuously and keep fishtailing down that straight to make it look like you are showing off how you can drift even when there's no corner to drift. (but actually everyone with any driving experience can tell it's just a lousy cover up for deficient suspension tuning prowess)

OR ! you can use a lower spring rate with the high dampers, so that you can ease off the throttle as you complete the corner, slowly and smoothly hooking up your drift into full throttle acceleration and nail that next section soopah fas! HOO-AH!

Conclusion : The lowest spring rate you can get away with is the sweet spot.

( remember : body roll = grip / spring )

Well articulated sir.
 
Off topic: Am I the only one who has been thinking this the whole time this thread has been going?...



That was my first reaction when I first saw it on the thread list, I thought it MIGHT be a thread about mexican food

edit: oh and on the topic of tacos . . . the answer is STILL soft because they hold the ingredients better after you bit it. also : burritos.
no one likes having to crane their neck just to bite a taco and then have the shell break and the toppings spill >. <

case closed.
 
edit: oh and on the topic of tacos . . . the answer is STILL soft because they hold the ingredients better after you bit it. also : burritos.
no one likes having to crane their neck just to bite a taco and then have the shell break and the toppings spill >. <

case closed.

+100,000 👍 :lol:
 

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