Soft or Hard

  • Thread starter domino5343
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I said that i wouldn´t discuss here anymore, but i have to share something. Yesterday i gave my first chance to the CS and CM tires. After choose my favorite custom track (mixed trouble, witch many of you are familiar already) and this Corvette C4 (in my user picture), because i thrust on it as a slow, but toaster machine, so i wouldn´t be afraid that the CS tires would put me in a hard situation, and the car would slip a lot anyways. Its important to say that for more fairness, i didnt changed my setups, because the main goal here was feel the traction, not optimize the car depending what tire i was using.

First i picked the CS, to really feel the diference compared to the CH. 1 lap for get used, 3 laps for match the perfect standard line in this track. By my short experience, thats what i felt using the CS.

- Right after i pushed the throtle (i use the X button, not a trigger) i noticed the overgrip on it, the car almost didn´t even burned rubber.
- The first challenge in the track is a smooth long straight corner, when i must get in above 230km/h (+/- 140mph) where there is a small jump in the start. Due the overgrip, after the tiny jump to the corner dive, the car lost itself.
- Now the brakes are much more responsive, specialy the ebrakes. A powerslide enter is now much harder to control the sideways.
- Also i noticed a bigger strugle to get good angles. Now the car acidentaly understers itself, and demands at least the double of the torque to keep drifting. So the corners where i could do using the 4th gear dosing the accel, now i must do in 3rd gear with terminal RPM.
- After these 4 laps, i could do some good laps, but neve getting the optimal standard line. Ill not blame myself or the track, i just prefer to say that CS wont let me drift properly.
- This kind of tires is much less affected in the banked corners and corner exit. Sounds kinda obvious, but i didnt figured before try it myself.

After the torturing time on the CS, i came back 1 level and put CM on the Vette. Again 1 lap to get used, 3 laps for the optimal line. Sometimes im stubborn to admit something, but maybe this tire set amused me more than the CH. Not only because the CM is closer to the CH than the CS, but in confess that even optimal for drifting, the CH required a really sharp feeling to award and deal with the grip and the traction. So using the CM i could chill out more and do my thing without feel like i was crossing a pool full of sharks, over a long and languid rope.

So maybe and only maybe the starting OP question (soft or hard) is wrong. Maybe the CM is the best choice for the starters.

My final avaliation about the tires are:
CH - Too easy to break up the grip, not so easy to be used finding the best, fastest and optimal results. Its a tire for hardcore drifters with a very good feeling about the game physics.
CM - Really easy to use. Decent break of grip, decent drift/oversters sustainance, good on powersliding, good on the grip recover. They biggest counterpart is find people using these tires for a fair tandem, cose they are not popular.
CS - They are surely faster (maybe too unrealistic fast, in my opinion), demands a huge effort to keep drifting, tends to screw powerslides, tends to understers, tends to break the drift if youre not using the right gear/speed/rpm... even if your car have almost 600hp. Do not looks realistic on the replays (makes a midle powered car looks faster than it should). Resuming: Too much grip fowarded and not any versatile if you need fix your lines.
 
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Lazy Liquid
CS - They are surely faster (maybe too unrealistic fast, in my opinion), demands a huge effort to keep drifting, tends to screw powerslides, tends to understers, tends to break the drift if youre not using the right gear/speed/rpm... even if your car have almost 600hp. Do not looks realistic on the replays (makes a midle powered car looks faster than it should). Resuming: Too much grip fowarded and not any versatile if you need fix your lines.
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Here's the thing: The same things that make CS "screw powerslides, understeer, and break the drift if you're not using the right gear/speed, RPM" is also exactly what allows you more refined control over the car.

Yes when you make a mistake it bites you twice as hard; but if you don't make a mistake it allows you to control the car much better. You can't have better response without making the car more punishing at the same time. The two go hand-in-hand. Every grip driver knows this but GT5 drifters seem to think it doesn't apply to them. A more responsive car requires more skill to drift. As such, it teaches you faster, and teaches you a more strict discipline.

Habits you learn while drifting CH will often get you into trouble on CS, as you found out... that is the sudden realization that your technique isn't as good as you thought it was. It hurts, I know, and your instinct is to switch back to CH but this realization is not a bad thing, don't run from it. Habits learned while drifting CS will only refine your CH driving and improve it. That is why I'm such a strong advocate for not using CH exclusively, especially when you're just practicing.
 
The biggest thing I noticed with CS tires is simply the fact that I can be more lazy with my throttle control and still produce the same results versus CH tires with precision throttle. The higher you go up the tire tier (if you will) the easier and lazier input is required from the user to make the car drift. It's as simple as that. Every time I drift with CS I find myself saying "Wow, if I were to try that with CH I would have spun out horribly."
Or... "Wow if I had CH tires I would've never been able to stop that fast to make the turn" etc etc.

I guarantee any legit CH drifter can adjust to CS tires a lot faster and match any CS drifters skill set; whereas a CS drifter will not be able to adapt to CH as quickly and will be a larger learning curve.
 
KiLLeR2001
The biggest thing I noticed with CS tires is simply the fact that I can be more lazy with my throttle control and still produce the same results versus CH tires with precision throttle. The higher you go up the tire tier (if you will) the easier and lazier input is required from the user to make the car drift. It's as simple as that. Every time I drift with CS I find myself saying "Wow, if I were to try that with CH I would have spun out horribly."
Or... "Wow if I had CH tires I would've never been able to stop that fast to make the turn" etc etc.

I guarantee any legit CH drifter can adjust to CS tires a lot faster and match any CS drifters skill set; whereas a CS drifter will not be able to adapt to CH as quickly and will be a larger learning curve.
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This is completely backwards in every way. CS requires more precision than CH. CH leaves more room to cover mistakes.
 
pergatory
Here's the thing: The same things that make CS "screw powerslides, understeer, and break the drift if you're not using the right gear/speed, RPM" is also exactly what allows you more refined control over the car.

Yes when you make a mistake it bites you twice as hard; but if you don't make a mistake it allows you to control the car much better. You can't have better response without making the car more punishing at the same time. The two go hand-in-hand. Every grip driver knows this but GT5 drifters seem to think it doesn't apply to them. A more responsive car requires more skill to drift. As such, it teaches you faster, and teaches you a more strict discipline.

Habits you learn while drifting CH will often get you into trouble on CS, as you found out... that is the sudden realization that your technique isn't as good as you thought it was. It hurts, I know, and your instinct is to switch back to CH but this realization is not a bad thing, don't run from it. Habits learned while drifting CS will only refine your CH driving and improve it. That is why I'm such a strong advocate for not using CH exclusively, especially when you're just practicing.
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This is what im talking about
 
pergatory
Habits you learn while drifting CH will often get you into trouble on CS, as you found out... that is the sudden realization that your technique isn't as good as you thought it was. It hurts, I know, and your instinct is to switch back to CH but this realization is not a bad thing, don't run from it. Habits learned while drifting CS will only refine your CH driving and improve it. That is why I'm such a strong advocate for not using CH exclusively, especially when you're just practicing.
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Of course as more diferent situations (car models, settings, diferent types of tires) gives more experience around diferent responses, and still a wise drifter must choice by the more trustble way or the chalenging way.

Ill not judge myself to make anybody trust on my drifter skills, i just wonder situations of tandem where a lot of handing adjustments must be done.

Do i need to drift with gripier tires just because is faster? Perhaps?

Its like... a drifter also can set his car for a overstiffed suspension, just because it can brings faster responses, but do it is the safier way? Will it screw you sometimes in very sharp corners, specialy adjusting while tandeming?

Another exemple, rear aero... does it makes you drift faster in high speed corners? Yes. Will it makes you understers, if you gotta to lower your speed while adjusting for tandeming? Sometimes.

If you think that the first corner on Tsukuba must be done at 80-90 kmh you pick a faster tire set. If you think it must be done at 40-70 kmh you pick CH. Realize the diference between 80 to 90 (10 variation) and 40-70 (30 variation)? This is the diference sometimes necessary to save your "back" from diferent situations. The more controlable, the more tandem-fowarded.

Solved the question about witch tires makes you mess (lose control?) more, lets give a look at the replays, then judge what feels more "realistic", judging by speed while entering, inside and exiting a corner. I tried to be fair, getting 2 good videos of drifters using CS and CH, same track...

Confort Soft:


Confort Hard:


EDIT: I had to swap both videos, cose the CS users was complaining about the CS defense video. As i did want to keep the same track, i had to change both...
 
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i want to talk about that video, that guy in the tvr was either new at cs or doesnt know how to drift with a 700hp+ exotic car. Now i drift cs with 502 hp challenger, the guy on ch its good but it doesnt take much to do that on ch go and check out whitesmokegang youtube page we dont have much videos (that i checked) but that guy was drifting in a exotic car with 700hp and really i cant take those exotic ppl serious
 
pergatory
This is completely backwards in every way. CS requires more precision than CH. CH leaves more room to cover mistakes.
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No actually.

I still can't believe people don't get it. I've been playing this game every single day since its release using every variation of tire imaginable and you're dead wrong. This is just as bad as arguing about which religion is "right".

Anyways, no need to reply to this comment. Continue to drift with what you feel is comfortable.
 
KiLLeR2001
No actually.

I still can't believe people don't get it. I've been playing this game every single day since its release using every variation of tire imaginable and you're dead wrong. This is just as bad as arguing about which religion is "right".

Anyways, no need to reply to this comment. Continue to drift with what you feel is comfortable.
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Tyres with more grip require more skill. your doing the same thing except your timing needs to be more accurate, and things happen faster.

Doesn't mean its not fun whatever your doing.
 
mopar-440
i want to talk about that video, that guy in the tvr was either new at cs or doesnt know how to drift with a 700hp+ exotic car. Now i drift cs with 502 hp challenger, the guy on ch its good but it doesnt take much to do that on ch go and check out whitesmokegang youtube page we dont have much videos (that i checked) but that guy was drifting in a exotic car with 700hp and really i cant take those exotic ppl serious
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Mate... ill edit my last entry... and ill put any epic Whitesmokegang video... i dont want to compare skill sets really, i just want to compare "realism" about the speed feeling and inertia feeling.

Thats all... my defense about whitch tires makes you do less mistakes, ram less, looks like a lousy drifter less in any online room full of masters is already done. Probably people drifting with you will worry more if youre not doing crap instead if youre going fast or not.

Anyways, now i think that CH and CM are much closer than CM to CS, and ill stick drifting with CH just because have the bigger preference, or else i would choose to change to CM.
 
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Lazy Liquid
Mate... ill edit my last entry... and ill put any epic Whitesmokegang video... i dont want to compare skill sets really, i just want to compare "realism" about the speed feeling and inertia feeling.

Thats all... my defense about whitch tires makes you do less mistakes, ram less, looks like a lousy drifter less in any online room full of masters is already done. Probably people drifting with you will worry more if youre not doing crap instead if youre going fast or not.

Anyways, now i think that CH and CM are much closer than CM to CS, and ill stick drifting with CH just because have the bigger preference, or else i would choose to change to CM.
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CS is closer to CM than CH is... depending on what car we pick or how we tune it we can get that CM feel on CS but if a CH driver moves to CM its already more speed then there used to. CH drivers are good at what they do... CH
 
DogFightKingz
CS is closer to CM than CH is... depending on what car we pick or how we tune it we can get that CM feel on CS but if a CH driver moves to CM its already more speed then there used to. CH drivers are good at what they do... CH
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I got the same lines at CH and CM..., i could do the same techniques, same breaking points,... diferent to the CS, where i had to change the right gear to another, suffering on ebrake powerslides, snapback...

I didnt put no video for CM tires, only CS and CH, but if you want me to find anything for you check and compare, just ask.
 
Soft tires are stickier and feel a lot more snappy. A bit harder to connect cornets in a car that's under 500 horsepower. I didn't mind drifting the cs's but I will stick to ch for comps. Although comfort mediums might start to be my new tire.
 
Lazy Liquid I think you missed this key part of my post:
pergatory
That is why I'm such a strong advocate for not using CH exclusively, especially when you're just practicing.
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"Exclusively" being the key word. I've always been an advocate of using CH when tandem drifting, and CH also has its uses in competitions.

Do you disagree that people should try other tires rather than just using CH all the time? Because if not then you agree with me. I'm trying to break people out of their ruts. Get them off the beaten path. Almost every drifter I see on this forum is a cookie-cutter, CH drifter trying to do backward entries and 360's when they still can't clear most corners on the correct line.

Every time I bring up trying different tires, someone says "but tandem!" or "but drift rooms with 50 people!" or some other scenario. I've had it, you guys just want to argue. This will be my last post on the topic.

KiLLeR2001
No actually.

I still can't believe people don't get it. I've been playing this game every single day since its release using every variation of tire imaginable and you're dead wrong. This is just as bad as arguing about which religion is "right".

Anyways, no need to reply to this comment. Continue to drift with what you feel is comfortable.
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Oh I get it, believe me I do. Your idea of more control is being able to drift like a pro. That's the safety net that CH's provide; you can screw up and they won't put you into the wall, and it's quite appealing to amateurs. Increasing the traction, suddenly you feel like you can't control the car as well, and so you say the tires are the problem when in fact you are the problem. Any professional driver will tell you the same. That you don't grasp this basic concept shows a serious lack of understanding of driving physics.

Consider shooting a gun. If a gun is more accurate, does that mean some kid can pick it up and hit his target with it? If I use your logic to decide the most accurate gun, it would be a sawed-off shotgun because they never miss. In reality, a sniper rifle is much more accurate but harder to shoot.

Of course you will continue to disagree with me because your ego is being threatened. Sorry there's nothing I can do to help you overcome this; with more practice and a deeper understanding you will eventually get it.
 
DogFightKingz
It seems that CS exceeds peoples skill limit if they hate on it that much. If you knew good, you do good ahahahahahaha
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I think I did just fine on the cs I was tandeming with you guys just fine. Just the tires don't feel real.
 
spank_ur_mom
I think I did just fine on the cs I was tandeming with you guys just fine. Just the tires don't feel real.
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That's how I feel on other tires, they just don't feel real. CH feels like slow motion
 
pergatory
Lazy Liquid I think you missed this key part of my post:

"Exclusively" being the key word. I've always been an advocate of using CH when tandem drifting, and CH also has its uses in competitions.

Do you disagree that people should try other tires rather than just using CH all the time? Because if not then you agree with me. I'm trying to break people out of their ruts. Get them off the beaten path. Almost every drifter I see on this forum is a cookie-cutter, CH drifter trying to do backward entries and 360's when they still can't clear most corners on the correct line.
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Good point. Its important to remember that not always the online ambient is not perfect, considering possible latency, high ping times, slighty changes at the physics. Its normal to see in the chat the typical: "Did i hit you? Sorry if i did, because i didnt noticed."

Thats why more than anything im favorable to the "locked tyre rooms". And maybe thats the critical complain spot for the CSers... because they unfortunaly cant lock rooms for CS exclusively, while CHers can.

About what is favorite to somebody elses, whatever. Everyone have diferent opinions about what speed should be fairly done by a 500hp car with 2000kg. Anyone able to do a video test with diferent tires drifting in the same corner and showing the speedometer average is welcome.
 
Lazy Liquid
Good point. Its important to remember that not always the online ambient is not perfect, considering possible latency, high ping times, slighty changes at the physics. Its normal to see in the chat the typical: "Did i hit you? Sorry if i did, because i didnt noticed."

Thats why more than anything im favorable to the "locked tyre rooms". And maybe thats the critical complain spot for the CSers... because they unfortunaly cant lock rooms for CS exclusively, while CHers can.

About what is favorite to somebody elses, whatever. Everyone have diferent opinions about what speed should be fairly done by a 500hp car with 2000kg. Anyone able to do a video test with diferent tires drifting in the same corner and showing the speedometer average is welcome.
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Nobody complains about the tire lock because we can drift behind CH with CS, they get mad
 
DogFightKingz
Nobody complains about the tire lock because we can drift behind CH with CS, they get mad
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Nah, ur probably are just emulating it. Probably you wont do the same lines or will cut the drift to hold up at any circunstance. CS cant drift "all the time" like CH do. Even if youre Tanner Faust.
 
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pergatory
Oh I get it, believe me I do. Your idea of more control is being able to drift like a pro. That's the safety net that CH's provide; you can screw up and they won't put you into the wall, and it's quite appealing to amateurs. Increasing the traction, suddenly you feel like you can't control the car as well, and so you say the tires are the problem when in fact you are the problem. Any professional driver will tell you the same. That you don't grasp this basic concept shows a serious lack of understanding of driving physics.

Consider shooting a gun. If a gun is more accurate, does that mean some kid can pick it up and hit his target with it? If I use your logic to decide the most accurate gun, it would be a sawed-off shotgun because they never miss. In reality, a sniper rifle is much more accurate but harder to shoot.

Of course you will continue to disagree with me because your ego is being threatened. Sorry there's nothing I can do to help you overcome this; with more practice and a deeper understanding you will eventually get it.
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Well here's the issue. When I first started to drift (November 2010) I used Sports Soft / Sports Hard, then I realized those were too grippy and I dedicated myself to Comfort Soft. For the majority of my drifting time was spent using CS, until I started venturing into the Japanese servers and they were all using CH. Excellent tandeming, combined with great skill, I couldn't believe they were using CH tires they had so much control... At this time, CH tires I deemed absolutely worthless. However, I eventually began to use them and over time I have learned new skills and techniques that would have never picked up from using CS, they simply limit your abilities to expand on your technique.

DogFightKingz
It seems that CS exceeds peoples skill limit if they hate on it that much. If you knew good, you do good ahahahahahaha
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My only advice to you is to join the Japanese CH servers and use CH tires for a month and try to keep up with them; If you truly want to improve on your technique. Or if you think you have reached your maximum potential I can see why you decide to stick with CS (because calling yourself the King of an unpopular and low skill tire set makes you feel good).
 
KiLLeR2001
Well here's the issue. When I first started to drift (November 2010) I used Sports Soft / Sports Hard, then I realized those were too grippy and I dedicated myself to Comfort Soft. For the majority of my drifting time was spent using CS, until I started venturing into the Japanese servers and they were all using CH. Excellent tandeming, combined with great skill, I couldn't believe they were using CH tires they had so much control... At this time, CH tires I deemed absolutely worthless. However, I eventually began to use them and over time I have learned new skills and techniques that would have never picked up from using CS, they simply limit your abilities to expand on your technique.

My only advice to you is to join the Japanese CH servers and use CH tires for a month and try to keep up with them; If you truly want to improve on your technique. Or if you think you have reached your maximum potential I can see why you decide to stick with CS (because calling yourself the King of an unpopular and low skill tire set makes you feel good).
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Haha maybe you aren't geting any better but im always geting better. Isn't CH the lower skill level tire if it covers your mistakes.
 
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jrkiwiboy
Its not what you use but how you use it :rolleyes:
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So true...if CHs are covering mistakes..I blame crappy tuning....I still get snap oversteer and understeering w/ CHs because I tune the suspension to absorb the road, not to be as rigid and as low as possible..tuning is the answer..lol
 
pergatory
Lazy Liquid I think you missed this key part of my post:

"Exclusively" being the key word. I've always been an advocate of using CH when tandem drifting, and CH also has its uses in competitions.

Do you disagree that people should try other tires rather than just using CH all the time? Because if not then you agree with me. I'm trying to break people out of their ruts. Get them off the beaten path. Almost every drifter I see on this forum is a cookie-cutter, CH drifter trying to do backward entries and 360's when they still can't clear most corners on the correct line.

Every time I bring up trying different tires, someone says "but tandem!" or "but drift rooms with 50 people!" or some other scenario. I've had it, you guys just want to argue. This will be my last post on the topic.


Oh I get it, believe me I do. Your idea of more control is being able to drift like a pro. That's the safety net that CH's provide; you can screw up and they won't put you into the wall, and it's quite appealing to amateurs. Increasing the traction, suddenly you feel like you can't control the car as well, and so you say the tires are the problem when in fact you are the problem. Any professional driver will tell you the same. That you don't grasp this basic concept shows a serious lack of understanding of driving physics.

Consider shooting a gun. If a gun is more accurate, does that mean some kid can pick it up and hit his target with it? If I use your logic to decide the most accurate gun, it would be a sawed-off shotgun because they never miss. In reality, a sniper rifle is much more accurate but harder to shoot.

Of course you will continue to disagree with me because your ego is being threatened. Sorry there's nothing I can do to help you overcome this; with more practice and a deeper understanding you will eventually get it.
Click to expand...


I think we are mixing up accuracy and precision, no ?

because, you are right. a sawed off is the most accurate.
sniper is more precise.

give a n00b a sniper and he wont hit anything. give a gosu a sawed off and he will complain it is either too easy to hit his mark, or, requires something more precise to REALLY do what he wants to.

I agree you need to practice using ALL tires,
you need to be happy to wear CH in a public tandem, you need to be able to keep up on CS if you join a teams room, and you need to keep up and tandem on CM no matter where when how or who you're driving behind.

CH will teach you A LOT about exiting corners for speed, how to exit STRAIGHT and FAST with the least wiggle. AND because the friction coefficient is low, you can run SUPER low spring rates (like 4.0 and less) with high damper. (but this is tire talk so I wont get into why that is so awesome)
 
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