Speed, and why its important in drifting.

[FussyFez]

Following on from another thread....

I don't understand why people are so anti speed...

If I'm leading, and you can't stay with me, there's a better chance of me winning.

If im chasing and you can't get away from me, there is a better chance of me winning.


I might start a thread on this rather than pulling this off topic, but I think there is a distinct difference between tandeming for fun, and competitive battles.

Please do.

I am also wondering how speed is not important as well.

I don't understand why alot of drifters are so anti speed.

If you are new, and just learning the ropes, then less speed makes things easier.


If you are a weekend drifter in real life, and want to replicate the cheap part worn tyres your using, then tuning for low grip, along with using the least grippy compound available, will obviously go a long way in regards to replicating what you're r doing in real life.


But, if I want to 'drift like Nomuken', then I'm going to want to approach things slightly differently.

Ive seen too many videos that mention top end drifters tuning for grip, to maintain control over the high speed, high angle entries that are now common place in D1.

I personally enjoy my 350bhp S13 at 10-50mph at the willow short course, just as much as I enjoy 140mph+ entries in the Blitz ER34. The Blitz is setup with huge amounts of rear end grip, mean throttle inputs don't just result in huge wheel spin, but actually pushes the car through the bend, gaining speed.

Now, if I'm messing about with mates, going for whole laps at close proximity, it's going to be easier to accomplish with the 350bhp S13, at lower speeds.

But if I'm in a competition, and I'm going all out for the win, I'm not interested in carrying a speed that my chaser can match, I want to leave him behind, so he's under pressure to keep up, and therefore more likely to make a mistake. If im chasing, I want to keep my leader on lock down, I don't want them getting away from me under any circumstances.

Obviously both hugely different styles, but the point is, speed is a huge factor in drifting.


I recently reworked all of my regular cars, removing all rear camber, and softening the rear compression a little. I now have so much more control. The the cars are not any where near as easy to drift, but they are capable of maintaining control at much higher speeds.

So where do your stand?

Low speed 'all show and no go' tandem buddy friendly,

Or

Go hard or go home, 'balls to the wall' high speed?

 

[twodogsgolden]

That's a given, Hes talking of unnecessary speed.

I am confused on this as well. I'd say too much speed is when you're off the track.

With too little speed I find I get grip and push myself into the inside wall.
-This could be because of how I have the car setup.

 

[ITSHAM]

I am confused on this as well. I'd say too much speed is when you're off the track.

With too little speed I find I get grip and push myself into the inside wall.
-This could be because of how I have the car setup.

Check out @BayouSimDrifter FD/D1 Rules page..

Following on from another thread....







I don't understand why alot of drifters are so anti speed.

If you are new, and just learning the ropes, then less speed makes things easier.


If you are a weekend drifter in real life, and want to replicate the cheap part worn tyres your using, then tuning for low grip, along with using the least grippy compound available, will obviously go a long way in regards to replicating what you're r doing in real life.


But, if I want to 'drift like Nomuken', then I'm going to want to approach things slightly differently.

Ive seen too many videos that mention top end drifters tuning for grip, to maintain control over the high speed, high angle entries that are now common place in D1.

I personally enjoy my 350bhp S13 at 10-50mph at the willow short course, just as much as I enjoy 140mph+ entries in the Blitz ER34. The Blitz is setup with huge amounts of rear end grip, mean throttle inputs don't just result in huge wheel spin, but actually pushes the car through the bend, gaining speed.

Now, if I'm messing about with mates, going for whole laps at close proximity, it's going to be easier to accomplish with the 350bhp S13, at lower speeds.

But if I'm in a competition, and I'm going all out for the win, I'm not interested in carrying a speed that my chaser can match, I want to leave him behind, so he's under pressure to keep up, and therefore more likely to make a mistake. If im chasing, I want to keep my leader on lock down, I don't want them getting away from me under any circumstances.

Obviously both hugely different styles, but the point is, speed is a huge factor in drifting.


I recently reworked all of my regular cars, removing all rear camber, and softening the rear compression a little. I now have so much more control. The the cars are not any where near as easy to drift, but they are capable of maintaining control at much higher speeds.

So where do your stand?

Low speed 'all show and no go' tandem buddy friendly,

Or

Go hard or go home, 'balls to the wall' high speed?

The go hard or go home theory in comps will just end up in a bad way...

 

[FussyFez]

@ITSHAM

ITSHAM said:

Unnecessary speed

Care to expand slightly?

I understand there is the 'defined line' on which you are judged, but surely maintaing this line, with more speed, and just as much angle (extremely aggressive transitions etc), should yield a better score than a slower run?



@BayouSimDrifter

You mention FD dropped speed as a judging criteria for 2014, does the D1GP/SL still include speed as a judging criteria?



I think we can all agree that drifting is about style, so surely a higher speed means more style, all other things being equal?



Edit

The go hard or go home theory in comps will just end up in a bad way...

Id argue that skills are lacking slightly if everyone is making run ending mistakes when pushing hard...


If your not pushing hard, it's hardly a competition?

 

[twodogsgolden]

I'm more wondering what would be qualified as " unnecessary speed". I read over the thread and it seems very straight forward follow the lines and hit the clipping points etc. I'm wondering how speed really plays a role in that. Let's say I'm running my Camaro with lots of rear grip and power that can hit those clipping points taking the same line but much faster than my 300ish hp Miata. What's the difference?

 

[Streeto]

I don't mind speed, especially gangsta high speed entries etc.

The thing is though, some people use their speed as their only winning ticket.

Some people see speed as more important over consistency/angle/line.

Speed is generally one of the lesser things that real life comps judge on, even the speed happy comps like FD/D1.

I can see how people would need that speed when proximity is the only way they can win.

Drifting is not a race, it's a dance.

 

[ITSHAM]

@ITSHAM



Care to expand slightly?

I understand there is the 'defined line' on which you are judged, but surely maintaing this line, with more speed, and just as much angle (extremely aggressive transitions etc), should yield a better score than a slower run?



@BayouSimDrifter

You mention FD dropped speed as a judging criteria for 2014, does the D1GP/SL still include speed as a judging criteria?



I think we can all agree that drifting is about style, so surely a higher speed means more style, all other things being equal?

Drifting isn't a race, So when you see real life comps do you see one leaving the other at the start as if its a drag race? No they courtesy roll get good but equal pace then its all up to the drivers to set the tone for the rest of the section. Now granted you will see drivers pull ahead, That's ok given they keep maximum angle that doesn't slow them down and maintain the given line, And that they don't shallow up just to speed up. But when they hold proper line, angle, and are just faster <This is ok in my book. But if you shallow up to pull away (speed drifting) You are at fault. Not saying these are actual facts, Just my opinions...

 

[FussyFez]

I don't mind speed, especially gangsta high speed entries etc.

The thing is though, some people use their speed as their only winning ticket.

Some people see speed as more important over consistency/angle/line.

Speed is generally one of the lesser things that real life comps judge on, even the speed happy comps like FD/D1.

I can see how people would need that speed when proximity is the only way they can win.

Drifting is not a race, it's a dance.

As with the handbrake, I think it's a case of having different tools for your craft.

Relying purely on speed without any proper consistency or line/angle will, of course, not end well.

But more speed, combined with great angle, lines and consistency should surely inarguably be 'better'.

 

[PUSH]

I love to Chill and drift with all levels of drivers.

most of my buddies are always Balls to the wall but in different areas.

Marcus ,Greazy, Isho, Decoy. balls to the wall angle

Griff,SRninja,Iputworkin,cropuis,alpaca,krack a mudd are all balls speed

I do drift with lower power than most, but at a higher speed than most.
I dont think i ever saw a drift competition where they tryed to go the slowest possible speed. lol.

I love higher speed tandems with the rest of the team and our friends but also test my ability to stay behind a slower car just to practice my control and many times its not the low hp cars that are slowest.

Dont get me wrong i love hitting big angles too, but if im not pushing my car to the limit(Angle,Speed,Proximity) then im not improving my abilities and range as a Driver.

Consistency will make you better and faster. Most cant be consistent enough during a full lap to even stay close. After the 2nd lap they are 8 to 20 cars behind. I dont like sections drifting, i think its pointless in my own opinion. Its like reading 1 chapter in the middle of a big book over and over again and never reading the rest of the story... but thats another thread for a different time.lol

 

[twodogsgolden]

This is tough because there are so many factors that you need to worry about to win and a lot of it is opinion.

 

[FussyFez]

I suppose this is a good place to talk about passing aswell.

In regards to comps...

I understand the chaser should be following the leader, rather than the ideal line, yes?

But, if my leader goes off line enough to make it almost impossible not to pass, then I deem the leaders run as pretty much null and void, and therefore cleanly passing him on the judged line shouldn't be a bad thing. He messed up to the point that I could get past him? Easy win.


Under no circumstances should a chaser go for an overtake without a big mistake from the leader, almost forcing the pass.


I wouldn't want to blindly follow my leader into a huge mistake, but claim that I matched his (crap) line perfectly.

Now onto grassroots practice....


Alot of you will have seen the Team Burst overtake at Meihan (I think), wouldn't you fancy some precision overtakes on entry with a trusted buddy?

Sounds like lots of fun to me.

 

[ITSHAM]

I love to Chill and drift with all levels of drivers.

most of my buddies are always Balls to the wall but in different areas.

Marcus ,Greazy, Isho, Decoy. balls to the wall angle

Griff,SRninja,Iputworkin,cropuis,alpaca,krack a mudd are all balls speed

I do drift with lower power than most, but at a higher speed than most.
I dont think i ever saw a drift competition where they tryed to go the slowest possible speed. lol.

I love higher speed tandems with the rest of the team and our friends but also test my ability to stay behind a slower car just to practice my control and many times its not the low hp cars that are slowest.

Dont get me wrong i love hitting big angles too, but if im not pushing my car to the limit(Angle,Speed,Proximity) then im not improving my abilities and range as a Driver.

Well @PUSH D1SL is set at 400hp and we have had entry speeds up to (I think) 88mph? And their car wasn't even 400hp max. But my point is even though this is a low hp comp im seeing a lot of speed and angle out of it! D1SL round 2 was Fast entry into a sharp downhill corner! It worked out beautifully! So speed is good sometimes.. Just unnecessary speed, the speed that makes you go off track or slow down and cuts off the follow driver. That's what im against.

 

[BayouSimDrifter]

@ITSHAM



Care to expand slightly?

I understand there is the 'defined line' on which you are judged, but surely maintaing this line, with more speed, and just as much angle (extremely aggressive transitions etc), should yield a better score than a slower run?



@BayouSimDrifter

You mention FD dropped speed as a judging criteria for 2014, does the D1GP/SL still include speed as a judging criteria?



I think we can all agree that drifting is about style, so surely a higher speed means more style, all other things being equal?



Edit


Id argue that skills are lacking slightly if everyone is making run ending mistakes when pushing hard...


If your not pushing hard, it's hardly a competition?

D1GP stop using speed as a judging criteria long ago. I would consider myself a comp drifter, my main focus is hitting all clips with as much angle and taking the ideal line. spped becomes a issue when i a driver isnt holding a proper line and wants to blame the other for driver. here is an example of what i mean. Round 2 of D1SL from this past weeekend, i went up against mohave. On the initiation it was already agreed upon that reverse entires were acceptable. but if you look at the video that was not the case. youll see that maintain proper line when following, the problem is that the lead car dropped a great amount of speed causing major correction by the follow. There is a somewhat of a average speed everyone should have to have proper line and to finish the course.

I suppose this is a good place to talk about passing aswell.

In regards to comps...

I understand the chaser should be following the leader, rather than the ideal line, yes?

But, if my leader goes off line enough to make it almost impossible not to pass, then I deem the leaders run as pretty much null and void, and therefore cleanly passing him on the judged line shouldn't be a bad thing. He messed up to the point that I could get past him? Easy win.


Under no circumstances should a chaser go for an overtake without a big mistake from the leader, almost forcing the pass.


I wouldn't want to blindly follow my leader into a huge mistake, but claim that I matched his (crap) line perfectly.

Now onto grassroots practice....


Alot of you will have seen the Team Burst overtake at Meihan (I think), wouldn't you fancy some precision overtakes on entry with a trusted buddy?

Sounds like lots of fun to me.

if the leader is clearly off line and there a safe way to pass then pass, but if you are the follow and take an inside line then you are wrong and that is an illegal pass

 

[ITSHAM]

if the leader is clearly off line and there a safe way to pass then pass, but if you are the follow and take an inside line then you are wrong and that is an illegal pass

Follow car should always be slightly outside but is to mirror the lead car.




Not exactly a battle "how to" But proper following rules/tips.

 

[PUSH]

@ ITSHAM i always look at it as, its the job of the follow driver not to hit the car in front of him/her. Its a basic driving rule so if th lead is scubbing speed by going big angle the follow driver must make adjustments in order to not make contact...BUT...the Judges must look at the actual minimum speed and maximum speed you need to clear that turn and transition to the next.
That is when you will see who really messed up from over speeding or just being a AssHole and causing following driver to stall.
A viper has no reason to slow to 15mph during the entry on the section that USD ran on indy road course.. i would vote for the one follow driver but thats just a old guys thoughts of how to judge real drifters.

 

[twodogsgolden]

@ ITSHAM i always look at it as, its the job of the follow driver not to hit the car in front of him/her. Its a basic driving rule so if th lead is scubbing speed by going big angle the follow driver must make adjustments in order to not make contact...BUT...the Judges must look at the actual minimum speed and maximum speed you need to clear that turn and transition to the next.
That is when you will see who really messed up from over speeding or just being a AssHole and causing following driver to stall.
A viper has no reason to slow to 15mph during the entry on the section that USD ran on indy road course.. i would vote for the one follow driver but thats just a old guys thoughts of how to judge real drifters.

I agree with this. From what I have read it is the responsibility of the lead driver to set the line and speed while the following driver is to match it.

 

[ITSHAM]

@ ITSHAM i always look at it as, its the job of the follow driver not to hit the car in front of him/her. Its a basic driving rule so if th lead is scubbing speed by going big angle the follow driver must make adjustments in order to not make contact...BUT...the Judges must look at the actual minimum speed and maximum speed you need to clear that turn and transition to the next.
That is when you will see who really messed up from over speeding or just being a AssHole and causing following driver to stall.
A viper has no reason to slow to 15mph during the entry on the section that USD ran on indy road course.. i would vote for the one follow driver but thats just a old guys thoughts of how to judge real drifters.

Like I said unnecessary speed whether it be to slow or to fast, Its not tolerated in proper comps. And yes its the follow cars job to mimic the leader (CLEANLY). Same goes for just tandeming, If you wanna do lap after lap door to door, Proper speed, angle, No bs brake checking, No Unnecessary speed changes, You will have a much better time!

 

[twodogsgolden]

I need to learn how to tandem sometime.

 

[ITSHAM]

I agree with this. From what I have read it is the responsibility of the lead driver to set the line and speed while the following driver is to match it.

But as a follow driver beware of your surroundings! If the lead car goes outside due to speed but doesn't go off track, You have to make proper adjustments mid drift and hold your line! Don't run him over or try to pass unless its a legal pass, Tbh and perfectly clear, Its both drivers job to deliver whats expected at your best try. But its on you solely to react, correct, adjust properly to any infractions during the event.


EDIT: I meant to say hold your line, The judges will sort out the faults.

I need to learn how to tandem sometime.

Join a @PUSH lobby! Tandem heaven!

 

[NBDrifterz]

Will with an honest opinion, I'm in the middle, sometimes I'll fly around the corner, but then again I'll 'cruise' it.
To be honest it doesn't really matter at what speed you drift at, fast or slow, it's who you are, we've all got different styles, and that's how we do it...

 

[GreazyTee]

Speed with angle is a yes from me.
Speed with no angle gets ridiculous.

If someone leaves me with speed but have quite a fair bit of angle fair dues.

But if you are just going to attempt to leave going shallow as hell then that's where it's a bit stupid. Kills everything. I don't count that as speed, I call it playing coward

People confuse the good speeders to the bad speeders.


And if you play that shallow speed game on your lead I'll just do the same lol.

 

[ITSHAM]

Will with an honest opinion, I'm in the middle, sometimes I'll fly around the corner, but then again I'll 'cruise' it.
To be honest it doesn't really matter at what speed you drift at, fast or slow, it's who you are, we've all got different styles, and that's how we do it...

That's fine in a open lobby, We are referring to comps.

 

[Isho]

Speed really takes place when it comes to being consistent. For example if I am following a viper or corvette, I should not be slowing down more than I have to normally with my GS300. I've witnissed alot of people gripping away from me just to be slowing down at a random time where its totally unnecessary and making it that much more difficult for me to get back to speed.

 

[Eric1512]

As a lead driver in any series it is stated that you should run a qualifying run. That being said as a lead driver you should be at your limit in terms of angle and speed. It looks a whole lot better when the lead driver out performs the chase driver rather then just pulling away.

 

[GreazyTee]

A lot of judging is half to blame and some of these comps. They allow people to do crazy stuff to mess you up. You tell them and they'll be like " oh it's your responsibility blah blah blah "

 

[MRDEVIL]

I'm more of a go hard or go home kinda guy but it was just the way I learned. I started out on ss tires in a 380RS, the high grip and high speed is how I learnt, that being said, when I found the community and online lobbies I had to go on ch tires. That lack of grip lead me to tune for the most rear end grip possible, big wings and all.

Point is, which ever style you have, it's because of the way you were brought up.

As a lead driver in any series it is stated that you should run a qualifying run. That being said as a lead driver you should be at your limit in terms of angle and speed. It looks a whole lot better when the lead driver out performs the chase driver rather then just pulling away.

My take on that is why not both.

 

[FussyFez]

So I think most of us agree, speed is a factor in regards to style, and pushing your own skills and limits, but it's not the be all and end all.

I think most of us also agree that speed should in no way negatively affect your tandem partner, in such a way that they have to take avoiding action, or get punted off line/track.

It was just annoying me, that certain members were giving the impression that speed isn't a factor in the slightest, and any extra speed shouldn't be seen as a good thing. I believe the opposite, and I'm glad that most of the responses have been positive.

 

[Gonales]

Not taking FD into consideration, and going from my experience with most European competitions, what people are looking for is:
Angle: /30
Line: /30
Style: /40

Style, includes speed. The matter of importance (10 points, 15 or 20), varies. But even if it's 20 which is extremely high, it's still lower than Angle and Line.
Style, can include multiple judging criteria. Amount of braking, e-brake usage, smoke (or lack thereof), and even the car itself.

This WHOLE section, is about competition tandeming. During tandems with friends, speed does not matter at ALL. Yes, you need to be able to make a corner. But people with Miata's aren't going to keep up with Vette's, Camaro's etc...
The best tandems are in cars with average grip levels, and moderate amounts of power.

Edit:
@PUSH :

@ ITSHAM i always look at it as, its the job of the follow driver not to hit the car in front of him/her. Its a basic driving rule so if th lead is scubbing speed by going big angle the follow driver must make adjustments in order to not make contact...BUT...the Judges must look at the actual minimum speed and maximum speed you need to clear that turn and transition to the next.
That is when you will see who really messed up from over speeding or just being a AssHole and causing following driver to stall.
A viper has no reason to slow to 15mph during the entry on the section that USD ran on indy road course.. i would vote for the one follow driver but thats just a old guys thoughts of how to judge real drifters.

For me, it's simple. I can win competitions and rounds by doing what I do best. Consistency and consistent huge angles.

Thing is, I definitely admit on slowing down purposely, during some of the less respectable comps. I will explain why.

If somebody wants to use a Viper, or Vette, to profit from the insane grip levels of the car, that's fine by me. But if I can keep my car sideways without fumbling the line, or angle and slow down to make the chasing more difficult, I will.

If the person chasing me at that point can match it, props to them. Really. But most of the time it's kids that think drifting is all about speed, and they cannot control their car like that. Why would I 'endanger' a battle, when on their lead runs they pull away like crazy, and the next run expect me to try lead at max pace?

They can have the benefits of their car, and I can have the benefit of mine, simple as.

 

[ACGreen86]

Haha this thread interests me because I favor angle over speed. In GT5 I used to get a lot of comments about my slowness. I'm still the same speed, but now I hold huge angles. I've never done a competition, but I prefer to go as slow as possible by maximizing my angles. I know I'm not nearly good enough to tell someone "don't do that, it's bad", it's just my preference. That, and I also prefer CH tires so

 

[BayouSimDrifter]

So I think most of us agree, speed is a factor in regards to style, and pushing your own skills and limits, but it's not the be all and end all.

I think most of us also agree that speed should in no way negatively affect your tandem partner, in such a way that they have to take avoiding action, or get punted off line/track.

It was just annoying me, that certain members were giving the impression that speed isn't a factor in the slightest, and any extra speed shouldn't be seen as a good thing. I believe the opposite, and I'm glad that most of the responses have been positive.

Im not saying it isnt a factor im im arguing the point that people us the speed in the wrong way. What Greazy decides is what happens most of the time in open comps. FYI Greazy and Nar are the good speeders

Speed with angle is a yes from me.
Speed with no angle gets ridiculous.

If someone leaves me with speed but have quite a fair bit of angle fair dues.

But if you are just going to attempt to leave going shallow as hell then that's where it's a bit stupid. Kills everything. I don't count that as speed, I call it playing coward

People confuse the good speeders to the bad speeders.


And if you play that shallow speed game on your lead I'll just do the same lol.