(Spin) Problem Handling Cars list

  • Thread starter Gturbo5
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157
Argentina
Buenos Aires, Argentina
ASTRO_BS-AS
There is no problem. It's just in the tune. Soften the rear, stiffen the front and you're good to go.

Voodoovaj, if you have to alter the original setup of a car to compensate for a balance problem, it´s clear that there´s a problem.

The fact that you have FR cars (LOT of weight on the front) doing stoppies says a lot about the MR problem. When you have so much weight on the back, and that weight transfer from back to front somewhat "faster" than it should, you have the problem that many are reporting.

I can drive without spinning a MR car, with a DFGT, but when you notice the amount of "work" that you have to do, even at cruising speed, something´s not quite right. And THEN you have the wheel WIDTH bug....

I insist, something´s not quite right.
 
2,933
Canada
London, Ontario
voodoovaj
Voodoovaj, if you have to alter the original setup of a car to compensate for a balance problem, it´s clear that there´s a problem.

The fact that you have FR cars (LOT of weight on the front) doing stoppies says a lot about the MR problem. When you have so much weight on the back, and that weight transfer from back to front somewhat "faster" than it should, you have the problem that many are reporting.

I can drive without spinning a MR car, with a DFGT, but when you notice the amount of "work" that you have to do, even at cruising speed, something´s not quite right. And THEN you have the wheel WIDTH bug....

I insist, something´s not quite right.

Ok, if you insist, then it must be true :)
 
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48
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
GazSk
Hi Voodoo, I agree with Astro that if the stock original setup makes for a difficult car then there's an issue. The Toyota MR2 is not a famous widowmaker like a 911 is, for example. The cars in GT6 would make you believe differently.

For extra feedback on the topic, I drove the Stratos Goodwood challenge and found the car perfectly manageable, though maybe forced skid assist had something to do with it? Either way, in that challenge, had no issues. Even made me want to buy one :)
 
2,933
Canada
London, Ontario
voodoovaj
Hi Voodoo, I agree with Astro that if the stock original setup makes for a difficult car then there's an issue. The Toyota MR2 is not a famous widowmaker like a 911 is, for example. The cars in GT6 would make you believe differently.

I admit, I'm trolling a little ;)

The more I dig into tuning, the more it seems that reversing weight distribution always works. It is like the car weight are backwards. Whether that is a bug or intentional, I can't say. That said, I have tuned everything to be well balanced, even the "widowmaker" 911.
 
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eran0004

Premium
9,655
Sweden
Sweden
eran0004
For extra feedback on the topic, I drove the Stratos Goodwood challenge and found the car perfectly manageable, though maybe forced skid assist had something to do with it? Either way, in that challenge, had no issues. Even made me want to buy one :)

It doesn't have racing soft tyres at Goodwood. I think a lot of the problem with spinning cars - at least it has been for me - is because of the tyres. For example: The RUF Yellowbird is great on sports hard tyres, you can feel when it wants to break traction and you can correct it before it goes wild. On racing softs it does have a lot more grip, but it's also a lot more unpredictable, going for your throat when you least expect it.

It might be that with sports or comfort tyres, when the back starts to slide it brings the front of the car into it as well, giving a sideways slide. On racing tyres it feels like the front stays glued to the road, so instead of sliding sideways, the back is rotating around the front. And because the racing tyres has great traction all the way until it suddenly snaps, it feels something like this:

Racing tyres: :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::scared:
icon_rip.gif


While sports tyres feels more like this:

Sports tyres: :):dopey::boggled::nervous::embarrassed::sly::D:cheers:

That's my experience, anyway.
 
170
OutspokenFlunky
OutspokenFlunky
Regardless if it is a glitch or just me getting use to the new physics I have found that when I run into a "problem car" I just tune everything I can to make it a massive oversteer machine and then work it out to a comfort level I'm happy with than also gives me some good times. A bit of work but it does work for me. Some times just adjusting the ride height helps the cars handling.
 
Haven't been keeping up with the thread but what are the thoughts on the Auto Union Type C 1937? Granted the wheel arches make it unable to turn at low speed but at higher speeds it just wants to swap ends at every moment. I know it's just a game and so real world physics don't apply, but this car seems to go beyond even the confines of the game's parameters.
 
459
Slovenia
T2
GregOr1971
Haven't been keeping up with the thread but what are the thoughts on the Auto Union Type C 1937? Granted the wheel arches make it unable to turn at low speed but at higher speeds it just wants to swap ends at every moment. I know it's just a game and so real world physics don't apply, but this car seems to go beyond even the confines of the game's parameters.

Last few days I've tested that car on different tracks (nurburgring,bathurst , indy ...)and as said , turning circle at low speed is just enormous ,so It is no go on tight tracks > damn I got even stuck at that U turn on Monaco History Cup :D

Watched some history shoots on YT and car was basicaly made for oval racing in germany so It runs perfect on ovals or tracks with longer straights > default no tune speed = 350 km/h for a car from '37 > those drivers were just crazy . It is kinda twitchy as you mention , but if you put lower tier tires > default are RH if I'm right > which I believe have a way too much grip for a sports tires from 1937 car will become easier to catch when slipp or try puting 1 tier lower tires just on front. Suprisingly it will make car easier to handle/catch when correcting speed in turns.

I'm looking for some online testing/ duel driving just for fun with that machine and some other more twitchy (MR) cars ,so if you're for some online testing add me on fr.l.
 
614
Japan
PaRappa Town
Luigi755
The real issue is that tires heat up WAY too fast. With the MR cars, it's basically impossible to catch all but the most minor slides because the grip is completely gone by the time you have a chance to try and save it. Heat can be an issue in real life but real tires don't go from normal operating temperature to uncontrollably overheated in the space of one minor throttle lift slide.
You're just driving with "very fast" tyre depletion.
 
532
United States
Northeast :(
z06fun
So I have a question back on the discussion of hard to drive MR cars, how many of you have actually driven an MR car in real life on a track at the limit?

I've driven several at the limit in real life, I will just say, they feel sooo much more realistic in GT6 compared to GT5. They are not easy to drive in real life if they start out somewhat balanced. In fact, if they are balanced under partial throttle, they will gain huge oversteer under full throttle lift because of the huge weight increase on the front.

Now with that said, the tire model still has a problem as mentioned with tires heating up way too fast if you slide the car a little (especially unrealistic for Sport/comfort tires). That's not quite realistic and makes them harder to drive in GT6. In real life, if the rear comes out on an MR car under lift, you add some throttle to regain it. In fact, the steering goes fairly numb on most MR cars under hard throttle and the car just wants to go straight, because you have very little weight on the front in this condition.

If you want them easier to drive in GT6 you can downgrade the front tires one level or use the skid force recovery, that's what its for :)
 

Furinkazen

Madman
Premium
44,132
United Kingdom
Blackburn
Furi_54
Right. People have been calling the Cizeta undriveable on racing tyres. Have you ever thought that it's the way tire model acts? I like it. On Racing softs it's horrifically twitchy and horrible, wanting to spin. RH tyres it still does a little. On Sport Soft tyres it's a brilliant car. I drive most of my supercars stock, and don't see much of a problem. It does give me a theory on the tire model however. Seems the car is more spin happy on higher grip tyres, my theory:

More grippy tyres = more grip for the car to stick to the road. However this means when the car breaks traction or slips, there is more grip that is suddenly lost, thus making the reaction more extreme, as more traction is lost. Essentially with the Cizeta, on sport softs there is a decent amount of grip, but not enough to ensure a turn of direction or break of traction is extreme. On Racing softs, say they have 2x the grip level of Sport Softs - this means that when traction is broken, there is 2x grip to lose, hence the extreme reactions.

I'm going to try this with the Pagani Huayra and Lamborghini Diablo as well at some point, those two stir up a fuss and some complaints around here...
 

Bo

Disturbing Member
Premium
12,123
United Kingdom
Liverpool
CARBOYXJR
I got tutored in karts, and whilst they did chuck oil down on the track for us to learn fine control (I was doing one-handed drifts while others were feathering the throttle :D), the karts in GT6 are a step in the right direction grip wise. They don't kill you under brakes any more, and they skitter along the surface instead of sliding.
 
394
Netherlands
NL
Morphisorius
Right. People have been calling the Cizeta undriveable on racing tyres. Have you ever thought that it's the way tire model acts? I like it. On Racing softs it's horrifically twitchy and horrible, wanting to spin. RH tyres it still does a little. On Sport Soft tyres it's a brilliant car. I drive most of my supercars stock, and don't see much of a problem. It does give me a theory on the tire model however. Seems the car is more spin happy on higher grip tyres, my theory:

More grippy tyres = more grip for the car to stick to the road. However this means when the car breaks traction or slips, there is more grip that is suddenly lost, thus making the reaction more extreme, as more traction is lost. Essentially with the Cizeta, on sport softs there is a decent amount of grip, but not enough to ensure a turn of direction or break of traction is extreme. On Racing softs, say they have 2x the grip level of Sport Softs - this means that when traction is broken, there is 2x grip to lose, hence the extreme reactions.

I'm going to try this with the Pagani Huayra and Lamborghini Diablo as well at some point, those two stir up a fuss and some complaints around here...

That's pretty much it, yeah. The lower grade tires actually make it much easier to handle oversteer, even though it tends to be more prevalent due to lower threshold while the power remains the same.

Good luck explaining this to the RS-on-all-cars crowd though.
 

Furinkazen

Madman
Premium
44,132
United Kingdom
Blackburn
Furi_54
That's pretty much it, yeah. The lower grade tires actually make it much easier to handle oversteer, even though it tends to be more prevalent due lower threshold while the power remains the same.

Good luck explaining this to the RS-on-all-cars crowd though.

This existed to an extent in GT5 as well - I ran a Ford Mk IV in a classic car series for two years and we went from racing medium to sport softs, and cars actually where more predictable on the sports tyres, they were less liable to just snap out on you.
 

MrUnknown

(Banned)
2,539
Unknown
Ask me.
I got tutored in karts, and whilst they did chuck oil down on the track for us to learn fine control (I was doing one-handed drifts while others were feathering the throttle :D), the karts in GT6 are a step in the right direction grip wise. They don't kill you under brakes any more, and they skitter along the surface instead of sliding.

We have a badass here! :cheers:

On topic; The kart is a great example of the MR traction: it can spin anytime if you don't have enough strenght to control it.

When I make some Time Attacks with a kart, I always make it drift a bit so I could make better times. :P
 

NixxxoN

(Banned)
2,712
Spain
Barcelona
We have a badass here! :cheers:

On topic; The kart is a great example of the MR traction: it can spin anytime if you don't have enough strenght to control it.

When I make some Time Attacks with a kart, I always make it drift a bit so I could make better times. :P
Agree. And even a little kart is challenging and tiring to drive at the limit, so imagine one of those 500HP wild beasts like the Lamborghini Diablo.

Drivers who can't control MR cars can always choose FWD hatchbacks instead :D
 
I think it's worth saying again that driving a high performance car is not as easy as it looks on edited youtube videos from EVO or whatever. Watch this instead: http://rutube.ru/video/75300df2eef55fa8a6324983d01c9774/

Watch 5 minutes of the video from 51:15 onwards, just to give you a little taste of the skill level required. If you watch the entire video, you'll realize how much work and attention a guy like Walter Röhrl needs to provide in a simple historic rally event. Imagine how he was driving in a much more competitive environment in the 80's...

edit: Btw, in that rally, they were driving on the reversed Nürburgring.
 
1,750
Sakery
I don´t have any problems with the Aventador.
Either on Sports/Comforts or with Racing Tires.
After I put the LSD settings to:
Front: 5/10/5 and Rear: 10/20/10

And added rear toe to +0.15 and rear Camber to 1.5 front at 2.0 and softer rear than front at same "lowness"
It was still more in the oversteer category but I could drive a lap on HSR without thinking " is the steer axle the rear ?"
And I reduced the rear Downforce to minimum and 35/65 Torque split.

Try it for me the Aventador drives perfectly ! (No aftermarket wheels installed btw)
(Stock weight almost stock power and all other parts fitted)
 

ITCC_Andrew

(Banned)
18,532
Canada
Kitchener
If people are still struggling with this "spinning cars" problem, I'd like to offer my personal advice:


Take a Lancia Stratos home. Take it to Toscana Reverse. Try to set a lap below 2 minutes. I'm pretty sure it's possible, but I'll check right now...


You have a "poor handling" car on a low grip surface where your reaction time needs to be instantaneous. When you're on gravel/dirt/mud/snow, your inputs need to come sooner. You brake sooner, you countersteer sooner, etc.



When you return to driving (the Lancia) on tarmac, you'll start to feel like everything is in slow motion.


Edit: I tested it, best lap 2:02.345 - it's totally plausible. If I had more time, I would be in the 1:59s, but I can't right now. Just take my word on it and try it!
 
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1,699
Ireland
Ireland
I played Project Cars yesterday for the first time in months and I played Asetto Corsa. Some of the cars in Project cars feel uncontrollable and the Ferrari F40 in Asetto Corsa is impossible to drive. I find all the cars in GT6 a lot easier to drive with Traction Control turned off , Stability management turned off and skid recovery force turned off far easier to drive than those other two sims.
 
4,463
Bulgaria
Bulgaria
I played Project Cars yesterday for the first time in months and I played Asetto Corsa. Some of the cars in Project cars feel uncontrollable and the Ferrari F40 in Asetto Corsa is impossible to drive. I find all the cars in GT6 a lot easier to drive with Traction Control turned off , Stability management turned off and skid recovery force turned off far easier to drive than those other two sims.

 

Stotty

My other car's a Porsche
Premium
8,642
United Kingdom
London
GTP_Stotty
That video makes the F40 look almost impossible to drive... where as this one doesn't!