(Spin) Problem Handling Cars list

  • Thread starter Gturbo5
  • 598 comments
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59
esskay_
Back on topic, there's a big difference between the two videos posted. Namely that Chris Harris is demonstrating the F40 & F50 to the audience by driving flamboyantly, *not* quickly, whereas Tsuchiya-san is driving the F40 under race conditions, trying to go as quick as possible. Two very different things, and hot version can't simply edit out all the mistakes and spins whilst retaining the few good bits to show an audience (not rubbishing Chris Harris' skill, he's obviously an excellent steerer, but when trying to slide an MR car around like that it's very difficult not to make any mistakes). And for the purposes of Chris's driving, being flamboyant & making editable mistakes is more important than a clean fast lap. The opposite is true for Tsuchiya-san.

Gran Turismo is closer to Tsuchiya-san's situation than Chris Harris', and the result follows suit. Ask any racing driver and they'll tell you that the quickest cars are the ones honed to a knife edge - people expecting a ferrari to be easier to drive simply because it's so expensive are disillusioned. The edgy handling is what makes it so quick around a track, and it's why the MR layout is preferred for high-end sports cars.

Again - drive an MR like an FR and it *will* feel impossible to drive. The style of driving needs to change to suit the characteristics of the car, it's not a matter of Polyphony changing the cars to suit an FR driving style.
 
1,694
Ireland
Ireland
Gran Turismo is closer to Tsuchiya-san's situation than Chris Harris', and the result follows suit.
The GT40 in GT6 is driveable where as in Asetto Corsa its impossible to drive. Its as if the rear wheels have no tyres on the wheels.
 
11,660
GTP_Orido
There's anothe BM video with Gan-San driving the F40 in a race, that man is a legend, the Ferrari won the race, beats Diablo and Venturi 400 :D
 
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7,068
United Kingdom
UK
All you have to do with the R8 LMS is brake in a straight line and accelerate through the corner, with the other GT3 cars all you need to do is tweak the setup and they will handle fine and not step out at all(Z4).
 
930
United States
Peoria, AZ, USA
MattZR1_81
So I took the Lotus Elise '11 around Matterhorn on British Lightweights last night. I can see with that car, as with most MR cars, the handling might seem messed up to some people. Then I realized how long it had been since I drove one of these in GT. What you have to remember the most with MR cars is to take it slow learning them again, otherwise they will bite you BADLY lol.

I have adapted quite well to the new handling in other cars within GT6, but when it comes to MR, I still have some issues from time to time.
 
11,660
GTP_Orido
I just bought Diablo GT2, curious as many said this car is broken :( So, yeah, took it to Bathurst, fitted comfort soft to see how it goes with street tire, surprisingly it drives fine, slower than the Diablo GT in straight line and low to medium speed corner due to the very stiff spring causing the car to jiggle a lot.

I tested with stock 630HP, no oil change, change body kit to '98 appearance version, the default one is from 2002 version, another PD mishap :lol:

With 9/3 brake balance, the car has noticeable instability under heavy trail braking without using throttle to help with the lift off oversteer.

I increased rear brake to 9/9, and it drives much easier, very pronounced on the 4th or 5th corner ( uphill left then blind right that leads to the esses ) and the downhill esses.

So my suggestion is whatever brake balance used, increased the rear to be same as front, and beware of braking points, it's a very edgy car with sharp handling and stiff suspension, try to slow in fast out.

Reducing steering sensitivity with this car is also beneficial, use -2 as a starter, if feels sluggish, increase by one :)
 
4,456
Bulgaria
Bulgaria
If someone have problem to drive MR and RR cars can try this:
Put tires with less grip in front and tires with more grip in the back.
For example front-sports hard and rear-sports medium tires.
 
11,660
GTP_Orido
The Audi LMS Ultra Team Phoenix is very fun to drive and pretty fast after a bit of fiddling with suspension, LSD and brake balance, not even ballast is necessary.
 

DCP

759
South Africa
South Africa
GTAS_PEETHAM
I noticed Huayra 13 and ford Gt 06 lose grip very quickly.
Try them on HIgh speed ring stock with sports hard, even sports soft. The thing is, they didn't behave like this in GT5 "besides Hauyra", so what is causing this behaviour now...?
 
370
mu22stang
...So my suggestion is whatever brake balance used, increased the rear to be same as front, and beware of braking points, it's a very edgy car with sharp handling and stiff suspension, try to slow in fast out...

Are you suggesting that increasing rear bias will help those that are having issues with lift-off oversteer?

May wanna rethink that...
 
11,660
GTP_Orido
Are you suggesting that increasing rear bias will help those that are having issues with lift-off oversteer?

May wanna rethink that...

Works for me, and I don't use ABS, so that may have an effect. Brake balance is not the same as in GT5, even with 5/5 ( same value front and rear ), the front tire will always lock first, if you never disable ABS, you probably would never know this. Each car has some kind of preset brake bias, the brake balance seems to adjust the sensitivity + force applied.

DCP
Well maybe I forgot to mention all aid off, with the exception of ABS set to one. Track edge Real.

I don't use any aids, drove it at Mt Panorama on comfort soft and grip real, less than 2:20s, easily. Posted a replay of it on another thread.



Sorry, but it's driver dependent IMO, and a host of other variables ( aids used, track used etc )
 
370
mu22stang
Works for me, and I don't use ABS, so that may have an effect. Brake balance is not the same as in GT5, even with 5/5 ( same value front and rear ), the front tire will always lock first, if you never disable ABS, you probably would never know this. Each car has some kind of preset brake bias, the brake balance seems to adjust the sensitivity + force applied.

For those having issues they can't resolve on their own, it's worth a shot. Certainly the last thing I would ever suggest for a car with lift-off oversteer characteristics, especially without ABS.

I'm surprised you can get 9/9 with ABS off to be useable at all.
 
11,660
GTP_Orido
For those having issues they can't resolve on their own, it's worth a shot. Certainly the last thing I would ever suggest for a car with lift-off oversteer characteristics, especially without ABS.

I'm surprised you can get 9/9 with ABS off to be useable at all.

If the same value do not work well ( too much front bias in preset bias ), use rear bias instead, it will work just as good. So, for instance, you use 5/3, tried 5/5, no dice, use 0/5. Even with 0/5, the front usually will lock 1st as this does not always mean the car has rear bias :)

An easy method dealing with unstable rear when braking, try 10/0 balance, then 0/10, take a note of how the rear behaves + intentionally lock the wheels by applying full brake from high speed until stop ( disable ABS ). Aim to have the front tires goes red then the rear almost simultaneously for looser MR cars, this usually helped with trail braking and corner entry.

PD did not mention about this little secret that even with 0/0 brake balance, cars have preset bias ( hidden brake bias parameter unique to each car ) I think this is why some MR cars are tricky to handle, especially when braking + entering a corner, as most drivers will use front bias setup, like 5/3 :). Go extreme if necessary like 1/10, the result might be surprising ;)

Regarding high brake balance, I use DS2 stick from PS2, this little old gem is thousand times better than DS3.
 
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11,660
GTP_Orido

It's the new way PD doing with brake balance :(, this post is very informative :

The default 5,5 appears to be "stock" brake balance. So if the car has a 70% forward bias stock, setting the in-game "bias" to 5,3 reduces overall power by 20% and shifts the bias forward to 79.5%.

The "formula", should you happen to know the stock bias (and it's correct in the game), is:

B*F/5 / (B*F/5 + B'*R/5)

Where B is forward bias, B' it's complement (rearward bias), F and R are the bias settings in game.

For 70% stock bias, 5,3 setting: 70*(5/5) / (70*(5/5) + (100-70)*(3/5)) = 0.795..., i.e. ~79.5%
For 70% stock bias, 5,7 setting: 70*(5/5) / (70*(5/5) + (100-70)*(7/5)) = 0.625, i.e. 62.5%
For 62% stock bias, 4,2 setting: 62*(4/5) / (62*(4/5) + (100-62)*(2/5)) = 0.765..., i.e. 76.5%

So depending on whether you want a more or less forward bias than stock, sometimes you need to set the rears "stronger" than the fronts.

The bias setting does nothing outside of a race, although I'm not even sure it works online at all, so although trial and error is still king, there's not much provision for it in the game, whereas it always worked in GT5.
Is this another thing where PD think they're "balancing" online by removing the ability to adjust the bias? Seems to me if people are disabling ABS, they're going to expect that bias settings will be tuned to personal taste, and accept that they may be slower than others as a result.

Really, the existing adjustment needs to be replaced with a proper, transparent bias and overall force adjustment instead of this silly use of low-integer rational numbers nonsense. Then allow that adjustment everywhere in the game.

I still use front bias value, like on my Diablo GT has 9/2, only on cars with unstable rear end that has rear bias setup.
 
11,660
GTP_Orido
This is where you and/or PD lose me. As I hinted at earlier, in general and in reality, an increase in rear bias should increase oversteer.


Look it this way, say a car with MR drivetrain has 5/5 BB stock, but PD modeled the bias parameter as 70%/30% at default base value when the same BB value used. So, if you used 1/1 or 0/0, the actual bias is still 70/30 ( front bias ), if the car becomes loose with this bias, the only way is to increase rear brake - use 2/5 or 1/6 for example, this will shift more force to the rear as the rear brake sensitivity is increased, the car brake bias will move to 60/40 for instance. It's counter intuitive :(
 
370
mu22stang
Look it this way, say a car with MR drivetrain has 5/5 BB stock, but PD modeled the bias parameter as 70%/30% at default base value when the same BB value used. So, if you used 1/1 or 0/0, the actual bias is still 70/30 ( front bias ), if the car becomes loose with this bias, the only way is to increase rear brake - use 2/5 or 1/6 for example, this will shift more force to the rear as the rear brake sensitivity is increased, the car brake bias will move to 60/40 for instance. It's counter intuitive :(

Yeah, I get the whole "hidden" bias. But increasing rear bias increases oversteer. That's all I'm trying to get across.