'' Spoiler '' Thread

[BlueRex]

FYI:
Mr. Ruf just opened their first facility in the US here in Dallas last month. Apparently, his wife is from DFW.

Anyhow, they started out upgrading Porches for people in Germany. I was unaware, until the opening here, that they have also been building cars from scratch since the 80's. Very sweet rides.

 

[Gabkicks]

I posted this before, but it sooms to have gotten lost in an older thread. (damn this forum moves fast!!)

Most people seem confused about the difference between spoilers and wings, Statements like "spoilers = wings" seems to come up quite often and are simply not true. I've done some aerodynamics engineering and this is what I know:

Basicly a spoiler can be fitted to the front or rear of a car. The reason being that the avarage car has more or less an aerofoil shape (flat underside, curved on top). At speed, and this already takes effect at 50km/h or 30mph and up, this creates positive lift on either the front, but usualy the back of the car. A spoiler forces the flow of air to seperate from the surface of the car and 'spoils' the curved shape of the car body. thiscreates a higher presure area near the spoiler and reduces lift, the effect can be quite considerable if placed well.

To seperate the airflow, the spoiler has to be attached to the car bodywork, take for example NASCAR racers in the US, or if you live in europe, look at the spoiler at the top of some hatchbacks (the small black one on a VW mk3 golf GTI for example). Spoilers don't have to be big to hav.e a good effect.

A wing is always seperate from the car bodywork as airflow needs to go over and under the device for it's effect. It is basicly an inverted aerofoil shaped surface that creates negative lift.

A spoiler can have (with extensive windtunnel testing, not as a bolt on modification) a positive effect on drag. A wing however will always create extra drag and it's bennefit is only in cornering or acceleration situations. A good wing will have a good lift-to-drag ratio and therefore create downforce with little penalty in drag. Most aftermarket, bolt-on wings (and, suprisingly most factory fitted wings) have quite horrible lift-to-drag ratios and are really not worth it if you are purely looking for cornering performance.

No wing will ever give you a higher top speed, and only VERY well tested and designed (and we're talking F1 level of development) spoilers will manage to increase the vehicles top speed by 1 or 2% (i.e. won't generate drag or reduce it).

really good explanation man 👍

 

[the Interceptor]

I know that a spoiler and a wing are not the same. What I meant with "spoilers = wings" was that this thread was actually referring to the device most of the natively English speaking people know as a wing. In other languages a wing actually is called spoiler, so I tried to clear this up.

 

[McLaren]

FYI:
Mr. Ruf just opened their first facility in the US here in Dallas last month. Apparently, his wife is from DFW.

Anyhow, they started out upgrading Porches for people in Germany. I was unaware, until the opening here, that they have also been building cars from scratch since the 80's. Very sweet rides.

Actually, its not Mr. Ruf. Its a man who is in association with Mr. Ruf, and its not in Dallas. It's in Carolton, Texas. I would know. I drove out there to see it on opening day.

The owner owns a Yellowbird, RGT, and CTR2. It's mainly a Ruf Shop. Where body work, tire changes, etc. can be done. He said its not really a dealership.



Ruf does modified Porsches, but only when a customer comes in and asks them to. Ruf is indeed its own little car maker. I'd listen to live4speed. He got me on the right path about Ruf.

 

[BlueRex]

I just figured Dallas was more well known location that people could relate to. Wish i could have went to that event

 

[VT]

The engine, although heavily modified, is based on Porsche's too. So you've got a Porsche chassis and engine... that's pretty much the meat of the car there.

So basically by that same logic, the Renault Espace F1 is infact a Formula 1 car. I mean .. it does have an F1 engine.

Isn't it funny how threads always seem to get hijacked by something thats already been discussed before?

 

[flamingwonky]

So the main spoiler is that there are spoilers, RUFs are built from the ground up and the first US factory opened in Dallas and that's some really good advertising because a Mine's Evo VI is really just a Mitsu Evo VI???
I think adding spoilers is a pretty cool feature, although I would opt for deeper ricetization of cars.

 

[BlueRex]

anything fuctional that adds performance is not "rice." Rice is non fuctional parts
like atmospheric BOV's on 300hp cars or lower. This spoiler mod is functional, if it wasn't then you get this.........

 

[EuroDrift]

The R50 is suppose to be based off of the Boxster platform.

 

[MadduckUK]

oh god what is THAT?!

 

[Heep]

I fully realize that RUF's are built from scratch in the RUF factory and are vastly different than their Porsche counterpart, but they still have that - a Porsche counterpart. When a new Porsche model is introduced, a RUF based on that chassis/bodystyle is often introduced shortly after. Without Porsche, RUF would likely not be around. Saying the XJ220 and Metro 6R4, or Espace F1 and an F1 car, are as alike as a RUF CTR-2 and 993 Turbo is a bit absurd. Sure, they share the engine architecture, but are completely different vehicles, having entirely different concepts. Ask Common Joe what an XJ220 is, and he won't say it's a Metro 6R4. Ask Common Joe what a CTR-2 is, and he will say it's a Porsche 911.

I won't say that RUF's are merely "souped-up Porsches", nor deny that they are scratch-built to unique specifications from the RUF factory. However, in essence, they are indeed modified Porsches - RUF takes an existing Porsche model, re-designs, re-engineers, and scratch builds it as they see fit. I've never seen RUF debut a particular chassis before Porsche did...

 

[MadduckUK]

I fully realize that RUF's are built from scratch in the RUF factory and are vastly different than their Porsche counterpart, but they still have that - a Porsche counterpart. When a new Porsche model is introduced, a RUF based on that chassis/bodystyle is often introduced shortly after. Without Porsche, RUF would likely not be around. Saying the XJ220 and Metro 6R4, or Espace F1 and an F1 car, are as alike as a RUF CTR-2 and 993 Turbo is a bit absurd. Sure, they share the engine architecture, but are completely different vehicles, having entirely different concepts. Ask Common Joe what an XJ220 is, and he won't say it's a Metro 6R4. Ask Common Joe what a CTR-2 is, and he will say it's a Porsche 911.

I won't say that RUF's are merely "souped-up Porsches", nor deny that they are scratch-built to unique specifications from the RUF factory. However, in essence, they are indeed modified Porsches - RUF takes an existing Porsche model, re-designs, re-engineers, and scratch builds it as they see fit. I've never seen RUF debut a particular chassis before Porsche did...

any car based on the golf chassis is a volkswagen?

 

[Dave A]

The R50 is suppose to be based off of the Boxster platform.

No it's a new chassis built by Ruf, some magazines published false information, but if you find official info on the car you'll find that it's a new chassis.

 

[Dave A]

I fully realize that RUF's are built from scratch in the RUF factory and are vastly different than their Porsche counterpart, but they still have that - a Porsche counterpart. When a new Porsche model is introduced, a RUF based on that chassis/bodystyle is often introduced shortly after. Without Porsche, RUF would likely not be around. Saying the XJ220 and Metro 6R4, or Espace F1 and an F1 car, are as alike as a RUF CTR-2 and 993 Turbo is a bit absurd. Sure, they share the engine architecture, but are completely different vehicles, having entirely different concepts. Ask Common Joe what an XJ220 is, and he won't say it's a Metro 6R4. Ask Common Joe what a CTR-2 is, and he will say it's a Porsche 911.

I won't say that RUF's are merely "souped-up Porsches", nor deny that they are scratch-built to unique specifications from the RUF factory. However, in essence, they are indeed modified Porsches - RUF takes an existing Porsche model, re-designs, re-engineers, and scratch builds it as they see fit. I've never seen RUF debut a particular chassis before Porsche did...

Theres less in common beteen a CTR and a 911 than their is between a VW Golf and a SEAT Leon. Same goes for Vauxhall VX220 and Lotus Elise, your very wrong, just because they share parts that does not make one tuned version or modified version of the other, saying the CTR is a 911 is more stupid than saying a SEAT Leon is a VW Golf.

Also your missing the biggest point here, not only are the majority of parts in an Ruf built by Ruf, but the parts taken from Porsche DON'T COME FROM A 911, Boxster or whatever model you may think, Ruf takes them before they ever become part of another car so how can it be a modified 911, if the 911 the parts came from was never built.

 

[Heep]

any car based on the golf chassis is a volkswagen?

No. However, I never said a RUF is a Porsche. I said they're based on Porsches

For example, a SEAT Arosa is still a SEAT, but no one can deny it's based on a VW Lupo (or is it the Polo? either way, you get my point).

 

[Heep]

Theres less in common beteen a CTR and a 911 than their is between a VW Golf and a SEAT Leon. Same goes for Vauxhall VX220 and Lotus Elise, your very wrong, just because they share parts that does not make one tuned version or modified version of the other, saying the CTR is a 911 is more stupid than saying a SEAT Leon is a VW Golf.

Sorry, I guess I didn't convey my point very well.

I'm not saying, and never said, a CTR is a 911. I said it's based off of a 911. A SEAT Leon is based off a VW Golf, a VX220 is based off an Elise. They all differ in varying degrees, but a RUF is still based originally, on a Porsche design.

 

[Dave A]

Arosa is a Lupo engine and chassis, the Ibiza is a Polo engine and chassis and the Leon is a Golf engine and chassis. If Porsce wasn't around, Ruf would've used a different chassis to build it's own supercars.

If Ruf's had a different body style, this argument would never come up, it's stupid the way people think.

EDIT: I've just read your last post, I think what your saying is good, however different peoples perception of the wordds based on will provoke different reactions, it's based on a 911 as in the 911 was it's inspiration and the best starting point for the car they wanted to build, but it is in no way the same as or a tuned up 911.

 

[Heep]

Arosa is a Lupo engine and chassis, the Ibiza is a Polo engine and chassis and the Leon is a Golf engine and chassis.

Thanks for the info - we don't get 2/3 of those VW's, and 3/3 of those SEATs over here so it's hard for me to keep them straight.

If Porsce wasn't around, Ruf would've used a different chassis to build it's own supercars.

Very possible. No one can say if they would have, or whether Porsche inspired RUF to start his company.

If Ruf's had a different body style, this argument would never come up, it's stupid the way people think.

👍 Agree 100%

Sorry if I've gotten a bit irritated. I realize that a RUF is an extremely different car than a Porsche, I just get a bit over-worked-up if it seems to me that someone is suggesting there is no relation between the two at all...

 

[Ravell]

How about opening a new thread for the RUF/Porsche discussion?

 

[Dave A]

At least we understand each other now 👍.

 

[BlackZ28]

I just figured Dallas was more well known location that people could relate to. Wish i could have went to that event

Cool, a fellow Tulsan! 👍

 

[Heep]

At least we understand each other now 👍.

Indeed.

Interestingly enough, a friend of mine has a 1980 RUF Porsche (1981 is when they gained manufacturer status), that has a RUF badge on the back, and a Porsche badge on the front

 

[RoxxorJoorSoxxo]

Yeah, they only look exactly like them, run similar engine setups, and the interior feel is very similar....It's TOTALLY not a porsche :rolleyes

If it looks like a porsche, and it smells like a porsche, guess what, it's a damn porsche.

 

[Dave A]

You haven't read a single thing on Ruf's have you, they are not Porsche's and if you persist in saying they are your retarded because it shows your not even willing to look it up yourself.

 

[9mm]

If it looks like a porsche, and it smells like a porsche, guess what, it's a damn porsche.

That's some..., eh...

 

[godzilla_GTR]

i think we have gotten a weee bit of topic here people.

 

[McLaren]

How about opening a new thread for the RUF/Porsche discussion?

NO. That would be closed in a flash, and I sure as hell would report a mod to close it.

That is my little warning if I see one. The only outcome is a flame war. 👎

 

[McLaren]

Yeah, they only look exactly like them, run similar engine setups, and the interior feel is very similar....It's TOTALLY not a porsche :rolleyes

If it looks like a porsche, and it smells like a porsche, guess what, it's a damn porsche.

NO it doesn't. I think you've been smelling a little too much new car smell.

 

[RoxxorJoorSoxxo]

Look it up myself? I take care of both a 911 turbo AND an RGT(among other cars) and have had seat time with both. Both of the cars handle very similar and the engine is superb, nothing sounds better than a flat 6, imo(turbo or NA). I don't care about the badging, the only difference that truly stands out is the engine SETUP(interior feel is quite similar). A RUF is a porsche, but a porsche is not a RUF.

 

[Dave A]

Then you know nothing about Ruf's.