Sport modes biggest failing for the slow to average driver.

[Jess_Pinkman]

I have 220 race wins to my name out of over 1300 races

LOOOOLLL....17% winning rate.

ok, good troll

 

[rono_thomas]

Seriously. If the guy keeps driving badly and not improving after 1200 races he has deserved his DR rank.

Again not the point.

 

[Lebowski]

If I finish first in a lobby of 14 C-D ranked drivers and one A ranked driver, I hardly gain and DR points. If I finish 10th in a lobby full of A+ and A ranked drivers, I gain much, much more DR points. This is how the system works.

The other day at the Bathurst Gr3 races I entered as a C. Was approx 5500 DR. Started 6th with 5 A raters above me. I finished far lower than 6th because I was out of my comfort zone and tried to push too hard. Now if you had read the thread correctly (and others too) you will see I have a muscle wasting disability that gives me slow reflexes and little to no muscle memory. When I race to my perceived limit I'm ok. When I push too hard for my physical ability I make too many errors to be competitive. That is what pushes me down drastically. In that one race I lost over 3000 DR.

 

[kjeldsen]

You want a cookie for everything, is that it?

Racing is a tough sport, and often times you need to get lucky to get a win. We shouldn't hand out trophies like in elementary school.

Tough guy confirmed...!

Have you ever watched WEC? GTE Pro and Am is exactly what you're describing

Ehmm are you trying to prove my point? GTE Pro and GTE Am are 2 different classes a suggestion i made a bit earlier in the thread.

The way this is achieved is through the FIA ‘grading’ system, which categorises drivers as platinum, gold, silver or bronze depending on their past achievements in motorsport and, in some cases, their age.

GTE Am teams must use at least one bronze-rated driver, as well as one rated no higher than silver. This means they are in effect limited to a maximum of one driver rated gold or higher in their line-ups. GTE Pro teams, on the other hand, are subject to no such restraints.

If you have any more you want to add to my suggestion please do.

What else is the point?

This thread is 11 pages long now, with bad drivers complaining that the playing field is not even and that they don't have a chance at winning. This game was designed for eSports. And as GTS is an online game in itself, you will go up against players of a variety of skill levels. Because online racing is a niche hobby already, you can't always expect to have enough players online so you will have a lobby of evenly skilled players.

Again, I can mention Call of Duty as another example. There will always be losers, and always winners. If everyone wins, nobody does. If people in real life racing would have this attitude, this sport would die pretty quickly. Why else would drivers join Formula 1 for example if they can't drive for Ferrari or Mercedes?

Please point out the "bad drivers", this game was designed for god knows what, because what they wrote about matchmaking sure as hell isn't holding up. And you really need to work on the basic understanding of what this thread is about. Everyone wants better matchmaking to get better races and to keep the interest going not a single one has asked to win they just want a better chance instead of no chance at all. And your examples are cherry picked. Why compare a crappy game like COD to GTS, there is a reason games like BF and COD are not able to keep new players in the game.

 

[Lebowski]

LOOOOLLL....17% winning rate.

ok, good troll

Is this all people like you can do, people who can't be bothered to read all the posts ive made correctly, resort to childish name calling and insults? Grow up.

 

[Boedefeld]

Again not the point.

You are probably the best discussion partner I've ever encountered on the internet. Great points you've stated there once again.

 

[rono_thomas]

You are probably the best discussion partner I've ever encountered on the internet. Great points you've stated there once again.

The past 11 pages contain them all, dig them out for yourself 👍

 

[Boedefeld]

Ehmm are you trying to prove my point? GTE Pro and GTE Am are 2 different classes a suggestion i made a bit earlier in the thread.

Bronze drivers going up against Silver drivers in GTE Am doesn't prove your point. There is always a skill gap in any racing class. Here the drivers are even categorized and still go up against each other.

Tough guy confirmed...!

Guy who wants a pat on the back for everything confirmed.

Please point out the "bad drivers", this game was designed for god knows what, because what they wrote about matchmaking sure as hell isn't holding up. And you really need to work on the basic understanding of what this thread is about. Everyone wants better matchmaking to get better races and to keep the interest going not a single one has asked to win they just want a better chance instead of no chance at all. And your examples are cherry picked. Why compare a crappy game like COD to GTS, there is a reason games like BF and COD are not able to keep new players in the game.

Very mature, calling games you don't like crappy. I should stop arguing now because you've shown your age but whatever lol.

If you want a better matchmaking system, force everyone who bought the game to play online. But you can't do that, can you?

The past 11 pages contain them all, dig them out for yourself 👍

I would rather use that time to improve my lap times and become a better driver than to waste time about how unfair a matchmaking system is.

 

[rono_thomas]

I would rather use that time to improve my lap times and become a better driver than to waste time about how unfair a matchmaking system is.

Begs the question why you decided to comment. And still do.

 

[Boedefeld]

The other day at the Bathurst Gr3 races I entered as a C. Was approx 5500 DR. Started 6th with 5 A raters above me. I finished far lower than 6th because I was out of my comfort zone and tried to push too hard. Now if you had read the thread correctly (and others too) you will see I have a muscle wasting disability that gives me slow reflexes and little to no muscle memory. When I race to my perceived limit I'm ok. When I push too hard for my physical ability I make too many errors to be competitive. That is what pushes me down drastically. In that one race I lost over 3000 DR.

Wait, are you seriously complaining that you made mistakes in a race and finished at the back of the field AND lost DR because of that? No way, PD should have awarded you with points for screwing up. Shame on them.

 

[kjeldsen]

Bronze drivers going up against Silver drivers in GTE Am doesn't prove your point. There is always a skill gap in any racing class. Here the drivers are even categorized and still go up against each other.

Of course you proved my point by pointing out that in other racing series there is a separation between fast and slow drivers. And again, thanks!

Guy who wants a pat on the back for everything confirmed.

You keep on making this claim, now i am going to ask you to back it up.

Very mature, calling games you don't like crappy. I should stop arguing now because you've shown your age but whatever lol.

Sorry i should have said imho but you have a point about kids playing COD i will give you that.

If you want a better matchmaking system, force everyone who bought the game to play online. But you can't do that, can you?

If you read through the thread you would see that i have made several suggestions on how to improve it, and the end effect would be more people playing online.

 

[Boedefeld]

Of course you proved my point by pointing out that in other racing series there is a separation between fast and slow drivers. And again, thanks!

But they drive in the same class... like in GTS?

Lebowski has driven 1200 races on this game, so it can't be doing that bad of a job if he keeps coming back.

Has anybody here actually played a game with better matchmaking?

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I think PD have made the right decision by prioritising SR when match making.
I'm not overly convinced that the SR grading is done the best way possible, but grouping racers like for like according to this rating is the best approach.

After that, it is clearly trying to group that pool of drivers online at the time according to DR.
Again, the right approach.

Luck of the draw may not always work out the best for some drivers in some races.
But it certainly isn't a consistent failing.


But what makes a driver a "slow to average" driver?
Everyone knows how to floor the throttle, and everyone knows how to jump on the brakes.
What makes the quick guys quick is car control and understanding a cars limits.
A slower driver generally tends to outbrake themselves, enter a corner to hot, stamp on the throttle too fast, etc. etc. far more often, costing them time.

Filling a 20 car grid with "slow to average" drivers all within a second lap time of each other (which it seems some here are advocating) sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
The amount of posts regarding being punted off track, etc. would dramatically escalate.
And it would still end up being a few cars out the front, with a few other small packs following, and some stragglers bringing up the rear.

Sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for.

 

[Sander 001]

You want a cookie for everything, is that it?

Racing is a tough sport, and often times you need to get lucky to get a win. We shouldn't hand out trophies like in elementary school.

Racing is indeed a tough sport and that has nearly nothing to do with this video game. There are no lives at stake, no G forces, nobody risking expensive machinery or life and limb. This game already hands out cookies in the form of daily cars, trophies, missions and increasing numbers. And as something trying to imitate motorsport, even just digitally, it’s very far off.

 

[Jess_Pinkman]

Is this all people like you can do, people who can't be bothered to read all the posts ive made correctly, resort to childish name calling and insults? Grow up.

So you complain (a lot) that the matching system is broken because consistently puts you against better drivers than you, and then tell us you are the winner in 1 out of 6 races. just LOL. If you are not trolling I apologize, and in any case I'm done with this topic

 

[Veinz]

I think PD have made the right decision by prioritising SR when match making.
I'm not overly convinced that the SR grading is done the best way possible, but grouping racers like for like according to this rating is the best approach.

Agreed, doing something like prioritizing DR is just crazy. Why should someone who actively tries to be a clean racer and consistently maintains an SR S rating be matched with people who don't give a **** about driving clean and cannot even maintain an SR S rating. Now that's unfair.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

The other day at the Bathurst Gr3 races I entered as a C. Was approx 5500 DR. Started 6th with 5 A raters above me. I finished far lower than 6th because I was out of my comfort zone and tried to push too hard. Now if you had read the thread correctly (and others too) you will see I have a muscle wasting disability that gives me slow reflexes and little to no muscle memory. When I race to my perceived limit I'm ok. When I push too hard for my physical ability I make too many errors to be competitive. That is what pushes me down drastically. In that one race I lost over 3000 DR.

I'm really sorry you have the disability. But the thing is, PD probably won't change the whole system for a one-off situation. And let's say we have a similar player to you that doesn't have a disability. Should they have qualified 6th in the same lobby like you did, they would gain DR had they held their position. However, if they push too hard, they will always mess up one way or another- disabled or not. The very first thing a driver should know is their own limits. If you have a disability that limits you physically, accept it and don't push yourself. If you don't have a disability but you know that you have to push your limits to even keep up with an A driver for 15 minutes straight, accept it and don't push yourself. The only difference now is that you have qualifying time trials to push yourself further and further until you've closed the gap to the A drivers. That's how I got faster- in qualifying. Race pace exists for a reason

No offense but you said yourself that you are slow, and you've reached your peak (I don't necessarily believe that statement but given your disability I think this might sadly be the case, but that's a different story). So I want to ask a question: why did you push your limits trying to chase an A driver when you're fully aware of the pace difference, and that you're aware that you'll still gain DR even if you placed 6th? Assuming that everyone else behind you are D drivers, why didn't you just have close racing with them instead?

 

[kjeldsen]

But they drive in the same class... like in GTS?

Lebowski has driven 1200 races on this game, so it can't be doing that bad of a job if he keeps coming back.

Has anybody here actually played a game with better matchmaking?

This thread has run so long now that the larger picture is gone. For example as i wrote early on, i race against the car in front of me and behind me, i don't really need to win to have a great race and i know what it takes to get a better rating and have done so once during my GTS career (and it wasn't racing below SR S as is the common way to rack up wins). And i think it is needless provocation to suggest players want a cookie and everyone that wants a different matchmaking policy are bad drivers. And i really don't judge others for what they want or how they drive i can only talk about what i would like and what i think would benefit the game.

And it is a fact that modern allways online games understands that they need to keep on providing new content and stuff to do, endless upgrades and unlocks is the way to go. Something to do is what drives (pun intended) players. And the best of them understands that they need to divide the players into brackets so that they new players still have fun and the experienced have a challenge. GT-Sport uses a crappy matchmaking strategy for anything above. It provides the same 3 basic races for a whole week, the only "todo" thing it provides is driving enough miles to get a spin on the wheel of misfortune.

There is no surprise in why so few play this game online, new players needs much more to look forward to, they need to feel the thrill of racing for more than just position. Putting them together with someone that is 15 seconds faster is simply dumb. And serving them three races pr week and nothing else is boring. As i suggested a simply DR category winner for every race would be nice, then the DR C dude 40 seconds behind the DR A+ would still get recognized for driving his pants off and beating the other 10 DR C drivers.

 

[Lebowski]

@Alpha Cipher ,Because i enter to win.

 

[golfer07840]

I bet those 4 racers had a lot of fun blowing us away last night.

 

[mthomas_95]

@Alpha Cipher ,Because i enter to win.

people getting used to racing games where winning against AI is everything and less about the quality and enjoyment of racing

Oh hello would you look at that

Only 11 F1 drivers in history (excluding 50's Indy lot) have a win rate greater than 17%, so complaining about matchmaking is a bit rich

On a more serious note merging the 80-89 and 90-99 SR lobbies would solve a lot of this. Get those 3-4 A's into top split and the 3-4 B's that currently fill those lower top split Daily spots can instead be near the top of 2nd split. I'd be surprised if merging them made any difference to the cleanliness of the lobby.

Nature of the system means most people either stay at 90+ or bounce anywhere between 40-80. Only people in 80-89 are recovering SR or newer players building it up, so it's never an active pool and gets this wide DR range.

 

[Boedefeld]

Only 11 F1 drivers in history (excluding 50's Indy lot) have a win rate greater than 17%, so complaining about matchmaking is a bit rich

But, but...if they can’t win every race the matchmaking is broken! And unfair! And they always get matched with better drivers even though they have 220 race wins!

 

[_ApexPredator]

I bet those 4 racers had a lot of fun blowing us away last night. View attachment 760539

I bet they didn't.

 

[Riptide]

When I race to my perceived limit I'm ok. When I push too hard for my physical ability I make too many errors to be competitive. That is what pushes me down drastically. In that one race I lost over 3000 DR.

The problem I foresee with your notion is that if PD puts you all the time with D rated "equal skilled drivers", you will soon win or podium most races which will soon advance you to higher C rated ratings / races [which might include a B or two] which in turn will cause you to end midway to rear of the pack which will soon "demote you to D Ranking - which is where you started. Or do you suggest that PD should not let you progress to higher levels ? I hope not, but if so then I am lost as to what you're searching for.

 

[_ApexPredator]

I am lost as to what you're searching for.

This whole thread.
I only commented because there was an air going around that the guys defending the system or pointing out that there simply just aren't that many S rated Dr D drivers around are doing so because they enjoy racking up easy wins - that's just not the case.

The best thing you can do is shift the balance of your Sport Mode activities a little more in favour of the FIA races and see if you don't see an improvement in the matchmaking.

 

[Woodybobs]

In my experience matchmaking at peak times works perfectly every time. Depending where one lives peak times might not be particularly suitable. I live in Ireland so I can only offer an opinion for the EMEA region. Between 6 and 10 (peak can run to 11 depending on the day) I've only seen players out of my DR level once (my most recent FIA race had an A/B mix but I was 100 odd points from A, so fair enough.) More than half of my 200 races were at DR D (most of those I was SR S), 10-15 at C/S, and 50 odd at B/S. Outside of these hours matchmaking begins to break down, but in my opinion if it's working as intended at peak times then it's working well.

 

[twitcher]

Wait wait wait wait wait.

11 paged of this back and forth, and this whole time, TC has 220 wins and a 17% win rate?????? Fml, those are phenomenal stats!!! Wtf. And he still wants to bitch and complain that winning is too difficult, and the matching system is “broken”??? Get a life man, the matching system is working perfectly fine. Talk about a sense of entitlement, holy crap.

How the hell do you have 220 wins and a 17% win rate (what’s your podium rate, 50%????), and yet you’re only a D ranked driver? It’s YOU who is doing something wrong. I’ve been playing the game for about a month, have 88 races, 7 wins....but I’m a B ranked driver with 25,572 DR points, in the top 3%. How on earth you can rack up 220 wins and still be a D is a mystery to me.

Do you quit the race if you’re not going to win??? That’s the only way I could see those stats ending up that way.

This topic turned into a complete yoke.

 

[Boedefeld]

How the hell do you have 220 wins and a 17% win rate (what’s your podium rate, 50%????), and yet you’re only a D ranked driver?

Because he's probably ranked with E/D/C drivers most of the time, the exact thing he's complaining about and why he created this thread in the first place.

 

[golfer07840]

Somehow I thith you missed the point.

Why should a Sunday driver compete with Lewis Hamilton. Please don't say get good..

Maybe the game should introduce handicaps and added weight to the a+ players when they race c drivers..

I'd love to see a grid full of D/S drivers up against 4 or 5 A/S drivers (which is what we get) but flip the grid! Have the A/S drivers start in the back.

It's a radical idea (and silly) but I'm genuinely curious. Would the A drivers just simply blow past the D drivers?

 

[VFOURMAX1]

How the hell do you have 220 wins and a 17% win rate (what’s your podium rate, 50%????), and yet you’re only a D ranked driver?

This is another place I think gives a PRIME example of something broken within the way game system operates and I have stated this before just not under these exact circumstances.

I have said in the past to keep people from gaming the system and tanking their rankings to get easy wins that once you as a player advance to a DR level then you should never go below that letter ranking level again. You may fluctuate from the top to the bottom of the manner points within that level but no matter how low you go you will always be xxx rank.

My main reason for this in the past was the sheer number of people tanking ratings to get wins or poles for the games accomplishments which screwed up the actual skill level within many race grids.

This would work well in this case though as the OP has advanced to the C ranking level so under what I propose this racer would always be at minimum a C level racer, he might stay a low level C but he would never be a D racer again.

Difference though is that carrot for improvement is the natural next level of progression as it still remains within a currently reached ranking.

I can only offer an opinion for the EMEA region.

Sometimes in the N.A. Region the matching for certain ranking levels can be spotty even during prime time in what I have observed.
Of course the rankings with the lowest numbers are affected the most.

Just like the lobby shown in post #350 of this thread, was that lobby filled that way because there were not enough A ranked players online to fill their remaining grid spots or were there not enough D ranked players online to fill the top 4 spots on their grid?

Maybe being the fastest DR D and SR S ranked players online is not the best position to be in!

The problem I foresee with your notion is that if PD puts you all the time with D rated "equal skilled drivers", you will soon win or podium most races which will soon advance you to higher C rated ratings / races

And the difference there is that being at the back of the grid with the new C ranking is that now the carrot is again dangling close enough to possibly realistically reach for through improvement within the C ranking as a racer may need only 1 second improvement to move to the roughly mid pack level and 2 -3 seconds of improvement to be among the front runners within the C rankings.

That is a far cry different for a new and learning racer than seeing a difference of being 12 seconds a lap off the pace of a racer several rankings higher at the front of the grid and maybe even 4 seconds off the pace to even have a chance to finish top ten.

As a game there needs to be levels of competition to develop the skills of up and coming players and the way most people will improve is going to be in smaller steps not all in one giant step overnight.

My interpretation is that those DR levels are the different skill based levels or steps and if you are just going to throw the grids together in a lot of cases irrelevant to those levels what is the purpose of having levels in the first place.

No matter what you are doing if you as a general rule want the majority of the population to stick with doing something they need to have success and a feeling of accomplishment to continue the journey and advance.

How long do you think that a new guy just getting into boxing as a middleweight and trying to learn the craft and get better would keep boxing if every time he entered the ring he had to fight Oscar De La Hoya the champion at the time?

Do you really think that if he entered a fight 3 times and got knocked out in the first 1:00 each time and then the 4th time he lasted 1:30 before getting knocked out and the 5th time he was saved by the bell at the end of the 1st round to start the 2nd round of a 12 round fight that he would think he was good enough or his skills were at a point to ever take him to where he would be competitive for all 12 rounds to continue this as a pursuit or would this new fighter more than likely throw in the towel and look for something else he may feel he had a better chance of being competitive?

Sad part was that new fighter above that quit, if the system brought him along and gave him the opportunity to fight and win against others learning just like him that would have boosted his confidence as he rose through the ranks, he actually possessed the ability that at the proper time in his progression and honing his skills and knowledge of the craft when he did meet La Hoya in the ring he was the one that knocked out the champ in the second minute of the 3rd round.

THROW THE GUY TO WOLVES AND HIS POTENTIAL MAY NEVER BE KNOWN.

Sad part is that boxing example is very well one of the main reasons so many new and lower ranked players ditch the Sport mode like it or not and as a result because of low player numbers we end up with the drastic differences in pace and skill within a single race lobby.

The best thing you can do is shift the balance of your Sport Mode activities a little more in favour of the FIA races and see if you don't see an improvement in the matchmaking.

The FIA race shift to a point is good in a sense but flawed as well as an overall solution.

Unfortunately in many respects it is a very limited and a very temporary band aid as the FIA season is approaching its last season and what the future holds concerning future FIA events is presently uncertain or even unknown as far as I know.
Also the FIA season only provides a maximum of a total of 4 races to compete in over the course of a week at a very distinctive time slot restriction.
That still does nothing to alleviate what many consider as a problem within the normal Sport Mode daily races which most of the lower guys compete in.

There needs to be some type of adjustment that will not only stop Sport mode from bleeding current players but retain new players regardless of the skill or rankings or even the goals they would like to achieve within the online mode of racing.

I still say many players do not desire or feel the need to be at the very top levels and those racers need the online portion to fulfill their needs to a degree as well for the mode to have an ample and healthy number player base.

Until it is realized and accounted for that different players have different goals or levels of whether it is a game for fun basically or something where another strives to be the very best they can be the mode will not grow as it really has the potential to.