Sport modes biggest failing for the slow to average driver.

  • Thread starter Lebowski
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Op writes that he got in a fast lobby and crashed himself out and complains of losing dr to his competitor D S drivers in said lobby saying he wouldn’t of crashed if the game wasn’t placing A drivers at the front.
Therefore the game is at fault for causing him to crash out.

OP claims the A drivers at the front are causing his ranking to stay low as a D by taking his points.

OP suggested matchmaking solely by DR and ignoring SR is a good idea.

This requires 13 pages?
 
Op writes that he got in a fast lobby and crashed himself out and complains of losing dr to his competitor D S drivers in said lobby saying he wouldn’t of crashed if the game wasn’t placing A drivers at the front.
Therefore the game is at fault for causing him to crash out.

OP claims the A drivers at the front are causing his ranking to stay low as a D by taking his points.

OP suggested matchmaking solely by DR and ignoring SR is a good idea.

This requires 13 pages?

It might be useful to consider the threads title rather than the OP’s gripes, wether you believe the claims are valid or not.

The conversation has moved on alot since post #1.
 
Op writes that he got in a fast lobby and crashed himself out and complains of losing dr to his competitor D S drivers in said lobby saying he wouldn’t of crashed if the game wasn’t placing A drivers at the front.
Therefore the game is at fault for causing him to crash out.

OP claims the A drivers at the front are causing his ranking to stay low as a D by taking his points.

OP suggested matchmaking solely by DR and ignoring SR is a good idea.

This requires 13 pages?

And how many pages makes a difference to you why?
 
Question then comes back as to why would it be more fair to protect the A drivers at the added expense of the D drivers to be put at even a more distant pace gap if the situation is what actually happened which honestly I doubt but it is interesting ?
I'm not sure if that kind of lobby is usual but I have come across similar ones if I play late at night. It's not particularly fair for the D's, nor is it particularly enjoyable for the A's. It strikes me as being so odd that I can't help but feel it's by design to basically run two races within a race. It's a bit of a reach for me to suggest any reason for this kind of lobby but it's the most logical one I can think of. Whatever method PD use to form lobbies when the numbers aren't available will be unfair to some. If they make SR a less important factor it makes it unfair on those who actively try to race clean, if they mix A's and B's the risk of being intentionally rammed and losing out makes it unfair on the A's etc. If what I suggested is actually happening it might be the fairest way.

I do wonder though how likely or what the odds would be to have a situation would be that there would be absolutely no available SR S DR B or C drivers and only SR S D ranked drivers to fill out a grid for SR S, DR A drivers.
I think it's highly unlikely.
In your scenario the matching should be closest ranks matched with the closest ranks. Points or risk of loss of points would not or should not be a part of any matching scenario period.
If we all could be trusted to race fairly I would agree with you. I recently raced as a B in an FIA lobby with 12 A's and 8 B's (or something similar). Once qualy got going I knew I could do pretty well and I started and finished 2nd and banked 3500 points. There's nothing unfair about that but there are some who will be enticed to deliberately cause mayhem to pick up some serious points. The incentives for quicker drivers to enter dailies become even smaller in such a scenario.
What I have seen often used as the excuse is usually that there are so few DR D ranked drivers that also have a SR S rank for them to be matched with and that is why they find themselves in mixed lobbies so often with DR A and B racers!
I know the stats are out there (I'm sure I've seen them but I can't seem to find them right now), but in terms of real numbers are there really so few D/S players?
 
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Screenshot from two days ago when the site was up and running.
 
We don't know how many of those D/S players are still playing regularly but the stats don't suggest that this group is particularly small.
 
We don't know how many of those D/S players are still playing regularly but the stats don't suggest that this group is particularly small.
No but what is exceptionally small is A / S in comparison, it is more likely that lobbies full of A / S is harder to achieve and so lower ranks of SR S are being used as ‘Grid fillers’.
 
No but what is exceptionally small is A / S in comparison, it is more likely that lobbies full of A / S is harder to achieve and so lower ranks of SR S are being used as ‘Grid fillers’.
Yep, that's true. I also think it's likely more D drivers have given up playing which would reduce the D/S numbers. @VFOURMAX1 I shouldn't discount that all players without a race to enter could be just shoehorned into one race which would explain why there's often a lot of A's and D's without a race and a smattering of the rest who couldn't fit into their own lobbies.
 
I shouldn't discount that all players without a race to enter could be just shoehorned into one race which would explain why there's often a lot of A's and D's without a race and a smattering of the rest who couldn't fit into their own lobbies

At times the matchmaking makes no sense and Sven who probably has more "testing" with matching at different levels and scenarios also confirms that time of day is a major factor.

He also seems to indicate certain levels within different ranks apparently are also much more apt to be placed as back markers or grid fillers for higher ranking levels and that in his testing it seems deliberately dropping ranking points by a certain amount drops you into going into the next lower tier of matching which often results in a better chance of being in a grid closer matched for your level.

Pretty sad though in a game that is supposed to be about doing your best to improve you are punished for being at certain levels by being placed in races as grid fillers and to get matched closer to your skill level and possibly be gridded for a good starting position you need to drop to a level below what your best efforts places you at.
 
If you want a good starting position set the best qualifying time you can. That’s the best chance you have.
I think qualifying time plays a lot more into matchmaking than some seem to think. I’ve been that C top five in an almost all B grid. I am sure no one here has the matchmaking logic in hand so it’s all speculation and the vast majority of the biggest player base in online racing agree that it works well. I think qual time has a lot to do with matchmaking.
I could see a valid complaint if you had ten sport mode races in a row as say level C and the grid was all A and you started last every time and everyone left you in the dust but that’s not happening.
The letter doesn’t really matter in the lobby at all what matters is the qual time. That’s my measure anyhow and it’s 95 percent reliable for me.
I don’t see what’s so sad about a player at any level being able to compete with other at the same rank. Being able to compete is different from going for the win. It’s a worldwide online competition. It’s called sport for a reason. I truly fail to see examples of folks where time and again the field pulls away and they have no one to race or that their qualifying time for their class is always way way behind EVERYONE. I am not talking first place.
Plus on top of the fact that the OP made the first post thinking high ranked drivers were destroying his ability to gain rank when in fact the system doesn’t do that shows a complete and total lack of understanding of the game.
Plus show me a player with 200 plus wins at DR D. We all know that’s impossible.
 
If you want a good starting position set the best qualifying time you can. That’s the best chance you have.
I think qualifying time plays a lot more into matchmaking than some seem to think. I’ve been that C top five in an almost all B grid. I am sure no one here has the matchmaking logic in hand so it’s all speculation and the vast majority of the biggest player base in online racing agree that it works well. I think qual time has a lot to do with matchmaking.
I could see a valid complaint if you had ten sport mode races in a row as say level C and the grid was all A and you started last every time and everyone left you in the dust but that’s not happening.
The letter doesn’t really matter in the lobby at all what matters is the qual time. That’s my measure anyhow and it’s 95 percent reliable for me.
I don’t see what’s so sad about a player at any level being able to compete with other at the same rank. Being able to compete is different from going for the win. It’s a worldwide online competition. It’s called sport for a reason. I truly fail to see examples of folks where time and again the field pulls away and they have no one to race or that their qualifying time for their class is always way way behind EVERYONE. I am not talking first place.
Plus on top of the fact that the OP made the first post thinking high ranked drivers were destroying his ability to gain rank when in fact the system doesn’t do that shows a complete and total lack of understanding of the game.
Plus show me a player with 200 plus wins at DR D. We all know that’s impossible.

Op writes that he got in a fast lobby and crashed himself out and complains of losing dr to his competitor D S drivers in said lobby saying he wouldn’t of crashed if the game wasn’t placing A drivers at the front.
Therefore the game is at fault for causing him to crash out.

OP claims the A drivers at the front are causing his ranking to stay low as a D by taking his points.

OP suggested matchmaking solely by DR and ignoring SR is a good idea.

This requires 13 pages?

There is 14 pages of discussion here, you are late to the party and your posts shows it.
 
Pretty sad though in a game that is supposed to be about doing your best to improve you are punished for being at certain levels by being placed in races as grid fillers and to get matched closer to your skill level and possibly be gridded for a good starting position you need to drop to a level below what your best efforts places you at.
Nonsense.
 
The body of text that I quoted is indeed nonsense:
Pretty sad though in a game that is supposed to be about doing your best to improve you are punished for being at certain levels by being placed in races as grid fillers and to get matched closer to your skill level and possibly be gridded for a good starting position you need to drop to a level below what your best efforts places you at.

You're not being punished for being DS. Even in that lobby when the pace gap between pole and mid-field is huge, there are still 10 Ds for the D player to race - he is being matched with other players at his ability.

I seriously think there's a massive misconception over how the matchmaking should work - you will always get matched with faster drivers, that is the point of an Elo-based ranking system. If you get beaten, no biggie, hopefully you had a good race with the field of Ds and you won't be penalised for it since that was the expected outcome.

This narrative of "poor D drivers" vs "Elites who think it' all about them" - is nonsense.
 
The penalty system in this game is broken. It's a complete joke what I had multiple times last weekend. Got bumped into the rear, so I touched the man in front of me -> penalty for me but not the guy who started this.
I got bumped into the rear, collide with the wall, get a 5 seconds penalty.
Or someone slides over the track, touches me, I collide with the track and get another 5 seconds penalty.

Plus there are still a lot of a**holes in lobbies with "S" sportsmanship. I better not mention drivers with B or C. They should be banned from racing.

Yeah, I'm really angry at the moment. And this game needs more than three weekly races though I think it was good to switch it to better learn tracks and cars.

Additionally I think this game has another problem. There aren't enough players. Sure, the grid is never empty, there are a lot of players but looking at their qualifying times they are widely different. Between the first and fifth player there are sometimes 2 seconds...seriously? This is bad matchmaking. How on hell someone should have a chance to win from P5-10 or behind to win a race? A better grid position should give you an advantage, not a 90% garanty to win or lose the race cause you are in a group who are around 2 seconds faster but also your driver level.
 
The body of text that I quoted is indeed nonsense:


You're not being punished for being DS. Even in that lobby when the pace gap between pole and mid-field is huge, there are still 10 Ds for the D player to race - he is being matched with other players at his ability.

I seriously think there's a massive misconception over how the matchmaking should work - you will always get matched with faster drivers, that is the point of an Elo-based ranking system. If you get beaten, no biggie, hopefully you had a good race with the field of Ds and you won't be penalised for it since that was the expected outcome.

This narrative of "poor D drivers" vs "Elites who think it' all about them" - is nonsense.

👍

Ideally you would rather be in a field of equal drivers ofcourse but for whatever reason (9 out of 10 times its time of day - the system WANTS to fill the grid so if you go on at off peak hours then the DR will be mixed or maybe popularity of race) then I would rather be put in with better grade drivers as you are more likely to learn.

I don't get why people are upset to be honest. Yes there's less chance of winning but there's more chance of watching and learning from better drivers braking points and speed of taking corners and using that to your betterment. Bringing up the standard of racers as a whole.
 
Here's the problem I see: the lower DR drivers keep saying "I know I'm slow/I've reached my peak/I just want to have fun", but they complain about matchmaking as if they're the only D driver in matchmaking. All the screenshots of matchmaking that's been shown though is that at worst there's 6 A drivers and 10 D drivers. If you just want to have fun, why are you complaining when there's 10 other drivers to have fun and have close battles with?

Because you want to win? You want to win despite saying "I'm slow" without actually trying to improve yourself? This is what really irks me
 
Here's the problem I see: the lower DR drivers keep saying "I know I'm slow/I've reached my peak/I just want to have fun", but they complain about matchmaking as if they're the only D driver in matchmaking. All the screenshots of matchmaking that's been shown though is that at worst there's 6 A drivers and 10 D drivers. If you just want to have fun, why are you complaining when there's 10 other drivers to have fun and have close battles with?

Because you want to win? You want to win despite saying "I'm slow" without actually trying to improve yourself? This is what really irks me
There is no need for D/S to be used to grid fill my A/S race.
 
I don't get why people are upset to be honest. Yes there's less chance of winning but there's more chance of watching and learning from better drivers braking points and speed of taking corners and using that to your betterment. Bringing up the standard of racers as a whole.

How can you learn from somebody if they are driving other cars than you? How can you learn from somebody if they are using different driving aids, maybe even no driving aids? Deactivated ABS and you have different braking points then with half or fully activated ABS. Same for TCS.

Imo you can't learn from drivers who are 3-5 seconds faster.
There has to be a better matchmaking system. It doesn't help to bring all B/S drivers together when their qualifying times variing between 3 to 5 seconds.
 
The A drivers being annoyed at having D drivers in dailies have no room for discussion here. I, along with some others, tried to point out that the annoyance is mutual only to be shot down by being called "elitists"

Why do I feel it sounds like IF I'm imagining F1 top drivers, eg : Lewis Hamilton or Vettel complaining the back marker teams/drivers for being there in the grid, and ruining their races for being too slow/blocking or it can be reversed, the backmarker teams complaining the top 3 teams are too dominating and they just want to race between themselves, slower teams.
 
Why do I feel it sounds like IF I'm imagining F1 top drivers, eg : Lewis Hamilton or Vettel complaining the back marker teams/drivers for being there in the grid, and ruining their races for being too slow/blocking or it can be reversed, the backmarker teams complaining the top 3 teams are too dominating and they just want to race between themselves, slower teams.
Because you feel wrongly.

PD are doing a fantastic job at artificially filling grids because the player base is so low that folk just refuse to see it.
 
How can you learn from somebody if they are driving other cars than you? How can you learn from somebody if they are using different driving aids, maybe even no driving aids? Deactivated ABS and you have different braking points then with half or fully activated ABS. Same for TCS.

Imo you can't learn from drivers who are 3-5 seconds faster.
There has to be a better matchmaking system. It doesn't help to bring all B/S drivers together when their qualifying times variing between 3 to 5 seconds.

Driving aids typically wont make the difference between 5 seconds per lap. Racing lines almost certainly will.

If you put a driver who doesn't use aids and can put in a good consistent lap time.. and then turn driving aids on they wont lose 5 seconds per lap, no where near. 1 or possibly 2 at the very most.


Theres two options really: Continue with the status quo and have full lobbies but with potential mixes at slow times of day or... and for me much less appealing: locked lobbies so that no matter what A, B, C or D drivers can only be with one another.. even if that means its only you and 3 other drivers.

I guess the question is would you rather be in a lobby with less people or a fuller lobby with potentially more DR to gain from racing with 'better' drivers?
 
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Because you feel wrongly.

PD are doing a fantastic job at artificially filling grids because the player base is so low that folk just refuse to see it.

I'm afraid I don't see that way, and I never trust stats from Kudosprime as it uses very small sample size.
 
Here's the problem I see: the lower DR drivers keep saying "I know I'm slow/I've reached my peak/I just want to have fun", but they complain about matchmaking as if they're the only D driver in matchmaking. All the screenshots of matchmaking that's been shown though is that at worst there's 6 A drivers and 10 D drivers. If you just want to have fun, why are you complaining when there's 10 other drivers to have fun and have close battles with?

Because you want to win? You want to win despite saying "I'm slow" without actually trying to improve yourself? This is what really irks me

Where do you see the DR drivers that keep saying "I know I'm slow/I've reached my peak/I just want to have fun" that wants to win despite those claims? What is being asked for is matchmaking, not fill the grid making. And the reasons are numerous not just I WANT TO WIN.
Sure, one of the reasons is that playing a game where you will never ever have a chance to win is certain to stop people from playing. Only those that wants to race at any price will play a game that matches you so that winning or even just being among the best 3 is simply not an option for the large majority of players.

Right now i have a C rating and i consider myself slow, but there is (if i read this right) 79% players with a lower rating.. it is INSANE that obviously quicker drivers get to use them as cannon fodder..

When all is said and done, i think it is only fair that drivers that already are divided into different DR ranks also get to race people on the same level. It does not make sense to match a Semi Pro driver with a dedicated Wheel / Pedal setup that does millions of hours vs a family dad that can squeeze in 1-2 hours during the weekend and a single race during the week.. in the living room, with cats, dogs and kids running around. And yet, that is exactly what the games does.. screw that.
 
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