Sportsmanship Rank

  • Thread starter Obsidian-2
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Johnnypenso
It's not likely to change. Any time you implement an algorithm where the players know what will result in a penalty, you'll get people doing it deliberately. They are in front, you are behind, they hit the brakes, you get a penalty. It sucks to get a penalty getting hit from behind but you just have to work around it. Accede the position if necessary, when someone is following too closely. Eventually your rating will go up to the point where you'll encounter less and less people of that nature and you'll be able to race closer with like minded racers. Racing with a driver rating system requires a different mindset. Your first races are an investment in the future and your mind should be on avoiding contact at all costs rather than your finishing position or earnings.
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Yes, that is pretty much the same conclusion I have come to. The most important thing is getting the rating up, even if it means sacrificing position.

I do not see what is difficult about implementing a better algorithm for determining who is at fault in rear end collisions though. It would never be perfect, but if a driver you are drafting down the straight at Suzuka brake checks you, that should be obvious.
 
Obsidian-2
Yes, that is pretty much the same conclusion I have come to. The most important thing is getting the rating up, even if it means sacrificing position.

I do not see what is difficult about implementing a better algorithm for determining who is at fault in rear end collisions though. It would never be perfect, but if a driver you are drafting down the straight at Suzuka brake checks you, that should be obvious.
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Absolutely I think it can be better, much better in fact. With the advent of braking zones for example, custom designed for each car class and corner, you could easily move the onus of responsibility from the lead driver to the following driver once the braking zone is entered. As you say it wouldn't be perfect, but I do think it would be quite a bit better. The first game that puts a real big effort into this and moves beyond a generic no-fault system, will garner a great deal of respect in the sim racing community if they can pull it off.
 
I have just done a couple of online races - Gr1 which I won with a clean race, and a karting GtX. I got rammed in the side by some idiot and I get slammed with 10second penalty. 2nd place becomes 9th, and sportsmanship drops to C... Hardly worth my time if I’m going to get penalised for other people’s incompetence. Totally broken system.
 
JayneS
I have just done a couple of online races - Gr1 which I won with a clean race, and a karting GtX. I got rammed in the side by some idiot and I get slammed with 10second penalty. 2nd place becomes 9th, and sportsmanship drops to C... Hardly worth my time if I’m going to get penalised for other people’s incompetence. Totally broken system.
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The only way that it works is if you perservere. The other person involved in the incident will have their rating downgraded too. So they will either adapt and become a cleaner racer or they will continue to race dirty and their rating will continue to drop and you will never see them again. Either outcome is acceptable.
 
I had similar issues with the closed beta and the open beta only today, In just one race which I did all day I got punted from behind which it turn sent me spearing off the track I had an inside line with plenty of space for the guy to take the normal racing line but he decided to ram me, SR went down.

Next lap another dirty 🤬 Sideswiped me and I got hit with a 10second penalty which subsequently saw me finish the race 9th thanks to two idiots who can't drive fairly.
 
Obsidian-2
I think I have figured it out, for the most part. If you do happen to get knocked down a rating, it seems like you need to put in a perfectly clean race in the next one and you will go back up. That worked twice for me.

However, if you mess up in that first race, it will take awhile to increase again.

Getting a bad SR from getting hit from behind is the worst aspect of it. If they would fix that, and start beginner's at C, it would be pretty good.

I was very competitive at Suzuka, but often sacrificed position to preserve my rating when approaching obviously bad drivers. Not ideal. I should be very close to A, and I think things will be much better once I get there. The three current races are all easy to get blue ... If you don't fight too hard.

The idea of SR is great. I can definitely see racing online in rooms that limit to A and above.
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In both of the instances where I went down to C and immediately back up to B, I had 1-2 bad sectors in that next race and was still able to reclaim the B.

That being said, there's no way to accurately measure how close you are to a demotion/promotion, so I am likely living life dangerously!
 
Your SR goes up faster if you cleanly pass a car. So I think your process of letting other cars pass you and then running clean sectors is slowing your SR growth? At least that is what I gathered when playing the demo a few months ago. It wasn't until the very last evening of the demo that I hit A/S ratings because I had limited time, but strong clean finishes is how I did it.


Jerome
 
Jump_Ace
Your SR goes up faster if you cleanly pass a car. So I think your process of letting other cars pass you and then running clean sectors is slowing your SR growth? At least that is what I gathered when playing the demo a few months ago. It wasn't until the very last evening of the demo that I hit A/S ratings because I had limited time, but strong clean finishes is how I did it.


Jerome
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What if you qualify pole, lead from the front and pass nobody and win is that also a slow way to grow SR?
 
rono_thomas
What if you qualify pole, lead from the front and pass nobody and win is that also a slow way to grow SR?
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That is probably the best way. Not getting mixed up in mid pack battles and back markers can only help. Unfortunately, other than Suzuka, I am not fast enough yet to run up front.
 
Johnnypenso
The only way that it works is if you perservere. The other person involved in the incident will have their rating downgraded too. So they will either adapt and become a cleaner racer or they will continue to race dirty and their rating will continue to drop and you will never see them again. Either outcome is acceptable.
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That’s what I’m doing, still rate C and slipping back if I need to in order to avoid the idiots and putting in clean sectors and passing them clean when I can. Totally spoils the experience though because I generally avoid online and this taught me why. But, I’ll persevere as you say and give it a chance.
 
cutmeamango
Each sector has a +X point. These +X points are influenced by clean overtakes as well.
Any stronger contact (old beta allowed for contact with less that ~10km/h difference) is - Y. Being off-track (in the old beta) had a -Y tick per couple seconds or so which sucked if you tried to rejoin the track cleanly, dunno how it is now.
The sectors were weighted differently according to track/lap count.

Deciding who's to blame is too much. Too many variables to decide what speed two cars should be at the same point.
Marking both is fair in the long run and it should promote higher awareness.
'Heavy damage' races should further improve contact aversion.

No obligatory rear/side view mirrors is bonkers though. As I see, the lack of training and importance on being aware of your surrounding is the biggest cause of accidents. They do have 2 indicators of proximity but direct visualization is better.

Regardless of any system, **** will happen, it's inevitable and natural.
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I always use the radar now and my score went back up to B. The Gr.1 race killed my SR this morning. Crash fest at its best.
 
rono_thomas
What if you qualify pole, lead from the front and pass nobody and win is that also a slow way to grow SR?
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I believe it depends on who your competition is as well. So if you are in a lobby with S/S and A/S guys and win/get podium that will boost you more than a win with C/S competition.


Jerome
 
Well I understand it is hard to have an auto system that accounts for who is at fault but man this doesn't seem fair at all at the moment. I haven't done a ton of races but in almost all I did there was always someone if not a few that actively just side swipe you or bake late into you. I qulaified 1st for one race, was faster in the race and got punted off on lap 2, then I had the penatly at the end and they didn't!? Was baffled.

Other races I was fighting for the lead and again just bumped or pushed off, with few laps you don't have much of a chance to fight back.

Also do penalties round up at the end. I had one race where I was working off a penalty got it down to 0.4 of a second and at the end race standings it was +1 sec, which cost me a place.

I try to drive clean as best as I can can but it's just not easy with random reckless behaviour around you.
 
I had good SR. Then a few idiots rammed me. Then more idiots rammed me. Now I have E in SR. Ffffff....I hope this doesn’t transfer to the release. Impossible to let those idiots pass you too, they just rear end you...
 
rono_thomas
What if you qualify pole, lead from the front and pass nobody and win is that also a slow way to grow SR?
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I have my SR rating at A and my driver rating almost A and this is from doing 15 - 16 races now with most finishing top 2/3 and a few wins plus a few perfect races.

The current Kart and Group 1 races are bad though, id say avoid them if you want to keep your SR up and just do the interlagos race.
 
So far I am pretty much raging because noob idiots ram me from behind, spin me out and my SR goes down. I pride myself on being a clean racer. I am not the fastest but I am clean.
To be penalised because people are basically scumbags is totally unfair and in no way in keeping with what the SR should be.
 
One thing that could help is that a player would need to in advance qualify on the track and with the class of car that will be racing in that lobby with a minimum lap time and a minimum score as far as being a "clean" acceptable qualifying run. That time would then be used to match that player with drivers that are in the same skill level with that class of car on different tracks.

I would say probably one of the biggest problems are players getting online to race a track and not knowing the track, the racing lines or the braking points. That could easily turn a race into a wreck fest quickly. The pre-qualifying system would have a player learn the track offline before joining in and ruining racing for the ones that want close clean racing.

Hard to fairly rate a driver for online racing when he starts racing tracks he does not know. Make the clean qualifying lap time do the rating. Races and lobbies could then be divided by brackets relating to lap times with the faster guys earning more points per race to make cherry picking the slower races not be worthwhile.

Be a sort of an amateur, novice and pro racing classes decided by performance stats only..
 
I usually do the whole qualifying session to learn the tracks that I don’t already have ingrained in my brain.
I will definitely do lots of offline stuff after full release.
The only problem with being a bit slower is you usually find more scrubs in the slower area. I can race cleanly with much faster players and I am happy to come at the rear of the field in a clean race.
I just hate driving nice clean laps only to find someone I passed go into rage mode and spear into me.
I don’t have the solution, I guess I will just keep driving clean and what will be will be.
 
I was mainly doing the group 1 online races today in speed a & Driver rating b... I didn't have my car until now for GR4. So my driver rating got bumped down to c and my skill down to b. Holy heck, when I first got in my gr4 race, I could tell a big difference between C and my previous B driver rating class. Started in 18th Place and was about ready to get the podium and someone hit me about 30 miles per hour faster than I was going into the second to last corner.

Not worried about it for the demo, but otherwise I'd probably be driving a lot safer and slower trying to stay away from everyone :-)... it amazes me how many people just want to run into you in the lower ratings. That group 1 race was just hard on everyone I think everyone was downgraded in every race I did :-)

I really wish that you could race in VR online, that go kart race today is pretty darn fun, be cool if you could see people's head moving :-)
 
Obsidian-2
Yes, that is pretty much the same conclusion I have come to. The most important thing is getting the rating up, even if it means sacrificing position.

I do not see what is difficult about implementing a better algorithm for determining who is at fault in rear end collisions though. It would never be perfect, but if a driver you are drafting down the straight at Suzuka brake checks you, that should be obvious.
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No, detecting brake-checking is not obvious. Maybe the guy infront wants the guy behind to actually pass and therefore hits the brakes lightly. Or the guy infront is a cautious or inexperienced driver and brakes earlier than the more experienced driver in the back. Or the guy infront sees an accident way ahead and brakes to slow down to avoid an upcoming collision. There are way too many factors that need to be taken into account for this issue to be easily solvable by a computer algorithm. It could be done, but it would take tons of work and even then wouldn't ever be perfect.
 
I haven't had too many problems but hopefully things will improve for you all when everybody takes their required racing etiquette courses lol.
 
Had a pretty similar experience, started playing online yesterday with two races, today again with two, and it is impossible to avoid those rammers... Get my rank bumped down because of this... Really sad system...

Regarding rear bumps, I cannot understand why is it so hard to apply sone rules from real world? If you hit someone that is braking in front, it is your fault. And for those who brake for no reason, like on Suzuka on start straight, drafting and guy braked so I get penality?!?! There are zones where braking is going to happen, and zones where noone brakes... Really hard is it?
 
This is quite easy to programme this in fairly.

Consider; how often does someone get hit hard from behind, say >20mph overspeed, and then within the next 3 seconds finds themselves off the track but it is NOT to do with the original punt?

Almost never?

If you can record data, you can write code to do anything you like with it.

If you're concerned about brake-testing, this is also easy to trap - each lap the computer will know where someone was braking and this data gets more and more accurate as the laps progress. Any very early braking can also be easily spotted by comparing laps, so the >20mph impact speed can also be dealt with fairly.

Ultimately I consider these issues to be lazy programming. Working out a fair system, programming and testing it is hard work. Fairness is critical to the online experience for players.

But to be fair to the programmers, I suspect they are quite illiterate to real world online gameplay. It's very difficult to test. This is why you have beta releases - to test in the real world, not in a developers studio in controlled conditions. All we can hope is PD are listening.

btw, yes I have also been punted off the track, usually by the last corner and drop 5-10 places with a penalty. And of course your SR rating takes a hit too.

And then I have also been guilty of the same thing, albeit 100% accidently. If I got punished for it I wouldn't have a problem.
 
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This is an opportunity area for them to get into using AI and machine learning to hand out penalties. Probably hard to drop in at this point if they aren't already doing it but something for the dev team to consider either as an enhancement or certainly for following iterations. This day and age there's no reason not to use it.
 
Yep, did a few more racers, somehow got to B again, then the next race, full of idiots at B, playing bumper cars. and then issues with lag causing cars to pop in front of you or right On top of you causing multiple negative SR rating to pile up...absolutely fundamentally broken system,
 
Makes me wonder if some of the crash dummies in this GTS release are purposely trying to sabotage the game so negative comments and such are posted just before the game is released. Although I am not purchasing GTS mostly because I prefer the offline play of the old school GT's, I still hope for it's great success in it's new direction and great fun for those who love their racing online. I hope the game provides in time the ability to get rid of these type of drivers and wishful thinking that they could get banned somehow via video complaints.
 
CodeCmdr
No, detecting brake-checking is not obvious. Maybe the guy infront wants the guy behind to actually pass and therefore hits the brakes lightly. Or the guy infront is a cautious or inexperienced driver and brakes earlier than the more experienced driver in the back. Or the guy infront sees an accident way ahead and brakes to slow down to avoid an upcoming collision. There are way too many factors that need to be taken into account for this issue to be easily solvable by a computer algorithm. It could be done, but it would take tons of work and even then wouldn't ever be perfect.
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Actually I think brake checking is the of the easier problems to solve. With the advent of defined braking zones at each corner, braking done by a leading car outside of those braking zones that leads to rear comtact, when on track and at speed, would be considered a brake check. Of course there are other variables in play but I don't think they are insurmountable.
 

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