Star Trek: DiscoveryTV 

  • Thread starter Thread starter Grayfox
  • 34 comments
  • 3,807 views
Messages
12,181
Australia
Australia
Messages
I_Grayson_Fox_I
PLEASE NO SPOILERS
What does anyone think of it so far

I have watched both episodes so far and the series looks to be good.
 
Eh, it's okay.

The radical redesign of the Klingons (although they still use the same language and symbols) makes absolutely no sense. They already had to explain away the difference between the TOS Klingons and the TNG/DSP/Voy Klingons (and Kahless, who lived 1,400 years previously, but looked the same as the modern Klingons) with an entire Enterprise episode dedicated to the Klingon Augment Virus. Now they have to explain why Klingons just 10 years before TOS look like neither modern Klingons nor KAV Klingons, but cave trolls.
 
Anyone else getting a creepy Section 31 vibe here?

Also:

Warp travel (and Warp 10 travel at that) by space fungus? **** off.
 
I've watched the first 3 and while I never really watched other Star Trek series I quite like this one. It's very well made and I like the crew and the story. And it seems there's some pretty cool things in prepartion too.
 
There's nothing wrong with the production values or cast. I'm just bothered by the timelines and plot.

Let's start with the Klingons again. The existing series and films establish a clear timeline of what Klingons look like. 1400 years before TNG the Klingons looked like Worf - we'll call them "TNG Klingons". We know this because of the clone of Kahless (TNG: Rightful Heir), and although the clone has been tinkered with, neither Worf nor Chancellor Gowron react as if he doesn't look like Kahless should. In the 22nd Century a Klingon called Antaak, who looks like Worf, accidentally triggers a virus (Klingon Augment Virus) that changes how Klingons look (ENT: Affliction), with smoother heads and lightly theatrical facial hair - we'll call them "KAV Klingons". In the 23rd Century, when Kirk's Enterprise first encounters Klingons, they look like KAV Klingons (TOS: Errand of Mercy). By the end of the century, Klingons were again looking like Worf, specifically Captain Kruge in Star Trek III: The Search For Spock, and the two ships full of late-23rd Century Klingons encountered by the Enterprise-D (TNG: The Emissary) and Voyager (VOY: Prophecy). They continue to look like this through the to the end of the original film sequence (Undiscovered Country) and then through The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine and Voyager.

So in essence Klingons looked like Worf up until 2155, went through a smooth phase due to the Klingon Augment Virus until ~2270, and then started looking like Worf again from at least 2285 onwards.

Discovery introduces a third set of Klingons - let's call them "STD Klingons" (lol) - right at a very problematic point in the timeline. They all look like grotesque caricatures of TNG Klingons (we've not seen any that look like either KAV or TNG Klingons), but they're right at the end of the KAV period. Discovery is set in the 2250s, with the first encounter with T'Kuvma taking place in 2256. Kirk encounters Klingons just 11 years later, meeting Kor in 2267.

That means that, somehow, the Klingons went from TNG to predominantly KAV for over a hundred years (2154-2256), to exclusively STD for a maximum of 11 years (2256-2267) before reverting to KAV for a minimum of 18 years (2267-2285) and then reverting back to TNG from then on.

That's problematic.


Now robots. There's no evidence of any robots of any kind in ENT, or TOS, other than those the ship encounters (TOS: I Mudd). And then in TNG there is, of course, Data was the first android (not technically a robot) in Star Fleet.

So, Discovery. Shenzhou's bridge has a robot (purportedly a woman wearing a VR helmet - but if that's the case why does it say "Impossible!" in a robot voice? What's the purpose of making her voice robotic?) and there's a woman who looks part-Borg on the Discovery bridge. And then there's the prosthetics worn by moody-but-quiet navigational officer from Shenzhou on Discovery - and Geordi La Forge on TNG.

So these technologies were normal and accepted in 2250s, absent totally in the 2260s and then a bit unusual and weird in the 2360s.


Timeline mucking about notwithstanding, I still can't get with the idea that the ship:

Travels at infinite speed through subspace via mushroom with the help of a tardigrade. What the hell is up with that?
 
I've recently rewatched all of DS9 - that last, ten episode run in really is very good indeed - and it reminded me of how tedious the Mirror Universe episodes were.

So, Discovery's back this week and oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

Now the mushrooms connect subspace in different universes, because of course they do.
And Tyler is Voq after all. WHO SAW THAT COMING? Oh wait, everyone?
And he killed the doctor to death.
Although it's rumoured that the doctor isn't necessarily totally dead for the rest of ever.
 
Not had chance to watch this yet, mainly due to not having Netflix yet.

But i have been watching The Orville. It's less comical then i thought it would be, being Seth MacFarlane and all, and much more story-driven Star Trekie, which i wasn't expecting so much. It's actually pretty good.
 
Well, abysmal premise, terrible plot, canonically inconsistent, implausible technology and dreadful resolution.

Good cast, nicely produced, but a true low point in Trek history.

Please leave Trek alone now.
 
Well i've now binge-watched the first 7 episodes of Discovery over the weekend and i've enjoyed what i've seen so far.

I have no investment in ST canon, so those inconsistencies don't especially bother me. The mushroom-warp is a bit silly, but i guess it's what gives this series it's raison d'etre. The cast and characters give it a greater depth over any other ST series this early on, although some of them are already pretty annoying, Tilly and Mudd - who i guess will be a reoccurring character. He's acted well and i do have a vague recollection of the character from the original series. But i think just as with Q in TNG and Voyager, those episodes that feature him will be the ones worth skipping. I'm willing to stick with it for now though.
 
Oh Jesus, while networks are cancelling shows like Brooklyn Nine-Nine, The Expanse and Dirk Gently, this utter arse-barf has got a second season...

... and Homeland has an eighth!
 
I'm going to say "Spoiler Alert" as if people are still watching this crap, but let's be honest. No-one who doesn't like Star Trek is going to watch a Star Trek series, and no-one who likes Star Trek is watching this any more because it isn't Star Trek. I'm watching it for the same reasons people watch a car accident.

But Spoiler Alert anyway...





This week on Star Trek Discovery, we have a literally recycled plot in the background with a mysterious thing in space that appears to critically damage the ship, but really it just wants to talk and the damage comes from the crew just not listening properly. In the meantime, the bug from mushroom space that came out of the dark matter asteroid they found in the red angel location eats the insane ginger woman. Wibbly space man had a cold, but then it turned out that he was actually dying, and then at the last moment he didn't die and his fear giblets fell out.

And I've not made any of that up. All of these things actually made it to a single, full, televised episode of this show.
 
the bug from mushroom space that came out of the dark matter asteroid they found in the red angel location eats the insane ginger woman

Except... it turns out she wasn't eaten after all, merely transported to *somewhere* in the mycelial network. So they park the ship half in and half out of mycelial space and just happen to park right next to the insane ginger woman and her non-imaginary dead friend who is really some spore creature (with a Jamaican accent). Turns out there's a monster in mushroom land, poisoning the otherwise happy fun-loving spores, and of course nice Silly-Tilly promises to help. Meanwhile, with the ship getting eaten by spores and falling further into mushroom land, a shady Section 31 ship decloaks from pretending to be an asteroid and assists with tractor beams. When they locate the monster they find it's none other than Hugh. Who? Stammets partner, who was killed some episodes ago. Apparently a brief kiss in his dying moments from his tardigrade DNA and spore infused partner was enough to build a copy of him out of mould in mushroom land, and simply injecting him with some human DNA will allow him to return to our universe intact, no need to be eaten by a blob - phew!

I probably forgot something. Oh, they caught Spock's shuttle, but he wasn't on board... baddy-turned-section31 Georgiou was.

I'm sure it all makes perfect sense to someone!
 
Yes, this week mushroom space is an actual place and not just an infinite speed network, and it's being destroyed by the dead doctor because of course it is.

In other news, they apparently changed the actress who plays implausible robot woman Airiam (the original actress now works in engineering, again because of course she does). Also they need to stop trying to make "Owo" a thing. It's never going to be a thing.
 
As much as i still enjoy watching it, as a bit of a guilty pleasure, i have found the last two episodes to be very silly indeed.

It has all the elements it needs to be great good - a ready made, fleshed out universe, high production values, some good cast and characters (with potential) but they still seem to be making a hash of it all the same with convoluted and contradictory plots and gappy timelines.
 
So I changed my avatar to Airiam from the most recent episode, because, c'mon, that was brilliant.

Lots of angry posts in purple text.
Why do you do this to yourself? Yes, you have every right to say "I watched the show, I didn't like it, these are the reasons why." But you keep watching it. You keep subjecting yourself to a show you clearly don't enjoy. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. If you truly didn't like the show, you'd stop watching it. So I'm left with the distinct impression you either actually do like the show, or you like the anger the show provides you.
 
Last edited:
So I changed my avatar to Airiam from the most recent episode, because, c'mon, that was brilliant.
Yet she's an anachronism (one of many). What is she? A previously unchronicled pre-Soong android, rendering literally all of the firsts and dilemmas around Data moot? A humanoid augmented with previously unchronicled implanted technologies, rendering every medical technology advance over the next 200 years - such as Geordie's Visor - outdated and irrelevant?

She's not alone - as covered above, the re-worked Klingons are a giant, giant plot hole, along with the the spore drive (we had infinite speed in 2250, but forgot about it even when Paris did it again in 2375?), and the entirely common knowledge of Section 31. And the entire Red Angel thing. Spock lived with this thing for 30 years and never mentioned it previously?

No doubt if the series continues long enough, somehow they'll explain how these things actually fit into the Star Trek canon (although I'm not confident with Fuller at the helm).

Why do you do this to yourself?
You know how you can't tear your eyes away from a car crash? Pretty much that. I'm watching Star Trek destroy itself in TV series form (like it did in film form) by crashing into a complete lack of understanding as to what Star Trek is and, more importantly, isn't, simply because it's a brand they can use to attract a crapload of production dollars (and yes, the production values are insanely high). And there's not much anger. A lot of disbelief, and slack-jawed awe, but not that much anger. A little, I guess.


So, this week on non-Trek-trek...

When Wibbly Space Man's fear giblets fell out, the gap became anger teeth - he's worried this has turned him into not him. The dead man is back because his boyfriend gave him a mushroom kiss when he died, and the mushroom people rebuilt him - but he's worried they didn't make him as him. Burnham cautions Pike about jumping to conclusions about how and where the Red Angel appears based of limited information. This becomes "important" later.

The latest sighting General Order 1 of the previously General Order 1 unchronicled Red Angel General Order 1 appeared above General Order 1 Wibbly Space Man's General Order 1 non-warp home world.

After several reminders General Order 1 about not breaking General Order 1 General Order 1 General Order 1, he and Burnham General Order 1 beamed down and General Order 1 immediately broke General Order 1 without hesitation.

Pike then plays an unknown alien signal to an entire planet (breaking General Order 1), and prepares to fire upon it (breaking General Order 1), because it definitely is exactly what the Red Angel wants them to do based on... umm... Wibbly Space Man said it was. Everyone's fear giblets fall out, because it's normal but they hadn't known about it, because the creatures that ruled the planet had kept it from them to stop them becoming evil again like they were 2,500 years ago.


They made Anson Mount say that bending General Order 1 (the Prime Directive as it becomes known) is okay but not to break it, about two lines before he decides on a Tilly whim to interfere in one pre-warp species' evolution* by blowing up a rival species. Ridiculous.


*In case you think the Ba'ul deliberately keeping the Kelpians from their next developmental stage is interfering with their natural evolution, and blowing up the Ba'ul's means of control over this is restoring it, it's not. Remember Admiral Dougherty and Captain Picard's exchange in Insurrection? The species have co-evolved, with the Ba'ul overthrowing the AngryKelps and instituting a culling system to keep them as FraidyKelps. That's the natural evolution of that planet and those species, and Star Fleet intervening in it is contrary to the Prime Directive, especially as one of the species is pre-warp.
 
@Famine , I promise, I read your whole post. I'm going to continue to watch the show because I enjoy it. You can continue to watch the show because you don't enjoy it. That seems an extraordinary waste of time to me, but it's your time, you spend it however you like. But I won't be reading any more of your posts on this subject, because that will be a waste of my time.
 
But I won't be reading any more of your posts on this subject, because that will be a waste of my time.
Does it not seem insane to you that Captain Pike will caution Saru not to break the Prime Directive and almost in the next breath utterly shatter it... based on Saru telling him to?
 
anachronism
Oh my word, the first minute of the most recent episode (If Memory Serves) is like someone read my posts and went "He thinks this is an anachronism? Oh, we'll show him!".

I haven't laughed so much at something not intended to be funny in ages. The writers, with 60 seconds of dialogue to fill over the whole show, seriously couldn't think of a way to remind people of those events? Just incredible.

Also, they seem to be telegraphing the identity of the red angel, perhaps to fix one of the plot holes in the timeline. Wonder if that's why they changed the actor...
 
I love that "previously on Star Trek" goes all the way back to The Cage. Interesting how they incorporated that into Discovery. The confrontation between Culber and Ash was as raw and angry as it needed to be. And I'm really liking Ethan Peck as Spock. Still loving this show.
 
Genuinely thought that was going to be a decent episode, but then Burnham got her frown on while playing chess and then the robot anachronism went crazy.

Still, no-one's actually died yet in Discovery, so she'll be back, perhaps in some crimson, winged attire of some kind.

I really, really enjoyed the line the writers added in when they realised they hadn't mentioned the security officer's breathing apparatus before and told you exactly what would happen 20 minutes later...

Edit: Oh my, the episode after it. So much frowning...

visforvulcan.jpg


One of my original issues with the writing on Discovery is that everyone, including Burnham, blames her for the Klingon War when in fact it wouldn't have happened had anyone listened to her (the fact that Burnham blames herself is unbelievably dim).

I'm now absolutely baffled why everyone - but particularly Burnham, who fought with her in the mirror universe (also mirror universe episodes suck) - seems to be treating Empress Giorgiou as if she's Captain Giorgiou. All of Discovery and Section 31 know she's an evil, callous, scheming tyrant, Burnham more than most. So why all the fondness and touching? Hopeless writing.
 
Last edited:
I thought the last few episodes were very powerful, especially the last one. Pike seeing his future and going through with it anyway is Pike being a hero. As awful a vision as he saw, he knew it was that future or no future for anyone. My respect for this show just keeps growing.
 
I thought the last few episodes were very powerful, especially the last one. Pike seeing his future and going through with it anyway is Pike being a hero. As awful a vision as he saw, he knew it was that future or no future for anyone. My respect for this show just keeps growing.
I get the distinct feeling that with the Control nanites and Discovery's mushroom power, they're trying to set up an origin for the modern Borg, retconning the nannites into the existing history as recalled by the Vaadwaur and the Borg Queen as the trigger for the megalomania and more efficient assimilation process.

As for the Menagerie Pike, they've been flagging that since the beginning - and really waving the crap out of it since they (hilariously) brought up The Cage.
 
S2E14 thoughts
I was glad to see this episode was mostly good-byes. It got a lot of the heavy emotional scenes out of the way so they can go to the big season finale set piece next episode. I thought all the scenes were very well done. Excellent writing, direction, and acting. I'm hoping they decide to spin off Pike, Spock, and Number One to their own Enterprise series. Anson Mounts, Ethan Peck and Rebecca Romeijn are all great in their roles, and that's the core cast right there.
 
Last edited:
S2E15 thoughts
I don't know that I've ever enjoyed a Star Trek series as much as Discovery. This series has fascinated me from the beginning and pulled off an amazing ending to season two. This episode was magnificently written, directed and acted, putting all the elements introduced during the last season into place for a great ending. I honestly don't know where season three is going to take us. Alex Kurtzman is talking about a possible spin-off series featuring Pike and the Enterprise, and I would like that.
 
Well, they solved the mystery of how no-one's ever spoken about the infinite speed, mushroom-space engine - and why Spock has never spoken about his sister even in private with people who know about the events (Sarek and Amanda, and Sybok, and Picard who mind-melded with both Spock and Sarek, and the Borg, who assimilated Picard and would be very interested in instant galactic teleportation by fungus, especially after Janeway destroyed a chunk of their transwarp network, and the Klingons, and everyone in the Mirror Universe) - by... making the whole thing illegal to talk about. Incredible.

That still leaves Airiam and the Klingons unaccounted for in terms of explanations of their appearances outside of the known timeline. I guess that's for season three.


Edit: My memory is correct. Sarek mind-melded with Picard in "Sarek", and the Borg assimilated him three episodes later. Then spent at least the next 22 years mucking about in Transwarp, instead of investigating mushroom drives and tardigrade DNA.
 
Last edited:
Back