Strip searches in school

[FoolKiller]

I just saw this story this morning and I felt this could create an interesting discussion.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/19/scotus.strip.search/

13-year-old's school strip-search case heads to Supreme Court

(CNN) -- The case of a 13-year-old Arizona girl strip-searched by school officials looking for ibuprofen pain-reliever will be heard by the U.S. Supreme Court this week.

The justices in January accepted the Safford school district case for review, and will decide whether a campus setting gives school administrators greater discretion to control students suspected of illegal activity than police are allowed in cases involving adults in general public spaces.

The case is centered around Savana Redding, now 19, who in 2003 was an eighth-grade honors student at Safford Middle School, about 127 miles from Tucson, Arizona. Redding was strip-searched by school officials after a fellow student accused her of providing prescription-strength ibuprofen pills.

The school has a zero-tolerance policy for all prescription and over-the-counter medication, including the ibuprofen, without prior written permission.

"In this case, the United States Supreme Court will decide how easy it is for school officials to strip search your child," Adam Wolf, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union who is representing Redding, told CNN Radio on Sunday.

Wolf told CNN Radio his client was traumatized by the search.

"School officials undoubtedly have difficult jobs, but sometimes they overreact -- and this was just a clear overreaction," he said.

Redding was pulled from class by a male vice principal, escorted to an office, where she denied the accusations.

A search of Redding's backpack found nothing. Then, although she never had prior disciplinary problems, a strip search was conducted with the help of a school nurse and Wilson's assistant, both females. According to court records, she was ordered to strip to her underwear and her bra was pulled out. Again, no drugs were found.

In an affidavit, Redding said, "The strip search was the most humiliating experience I have ever had. I held my head down so that they could not see that I was about to cry."

At issue is whether school administrators are constitutionally barred from conducting searches of students investigated for possessing or dealing drugs that are banned on campus.

A federal appeals court found the search "traumatizing" and illegal.

Some parents say older children deserve the same constitutional rights as adults, but educators counter a school setting has always been treated differently by courts, and a ruling against them could jeopardize campus safety.

While a federal magistrate and a three-panel appeals court found the search was reasonable, the full 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in favor of Redding last year.

"Common sense informs us," wrote the court, "that directing a 13-year-old girl to remove her clothes, partially revealing her breasts and pelvic area, for allegedly possessing ibuprofen ... was excessively intrusive."

The court said the school went too far in its effort to create a drug- and crime-free classroom. "The overzealousness of school administrators in efforts to protect students has the tragic impact of traumatizing those they claim to serve. And all this to find prescription-strength ibuprofen."

In its appeal to the Supreme Court, the school district said restrictions on conducting student searches would cast a "roadblock to the kind of swift and effective response that is too often needed to protect the very safety of students, particularly from the threats posed by drugs and weapons."

School officials said the court was "wholly uninformed about a disturbing new trend" -- the abuse of over-the-counter medication by teenagers.

The high court has a mixed record over the years on students' rights.

In a famous 1969 ruling, the justices said students do not "shed their constitutional rights ... at the schoolhouse gate." But decisions in the 1980s gave administrators greater discretion, including one case that said officials need not be required to have a warrant to search a student's locker. Such a search was permitted if there were "reasonable" grounds for believing it would turn up evidence and when the search was not "excessively intrusive."

Opinions in 1995 and 2001 allowed schools to conduct random drug testing of high school athletes, and those participating in other extracurricular activities.

And in a well-publicized 2007 ruling from Alaska, the Supreme Court upheld the suspension of a student who displayed a large "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" banner at an off-campus, but school-sponsored, event. The decision did not endorse a broader argument that students in general have limited free-speech rights when they interfere with a school's vaguely defined "educational mission."

The court could now be asked to clarify the extent of student rights involving searches, and the discretion of officials regarding those they have responsibility over.

The case is Safford United School District No. 1 v. Redding (08-479).

My take on this is that school officials are not law enforcement officials. Searching personal items is one thing, although I truly believe there should still be reasonable cause. But if you want to go as far as a strip search you had better have more than a case of one student's word against another's.

If this were my child she would have immediately been withdrawn from school, a lawsuit filed against the school, and possibly even sexual charges brought up against the vice principal, as I don't believe a strip search was called for, even if she did have the contraband.

Personally, if a school official believes there is a legal issue at hand, and handing out prescription strength ibuprofen is illegal, then you detain the student and call in law enforcement and the parents. At a bare minimum you call the parents first. At most you should be allowed to search lockers and backpacks, and I am iffy on the backpack.

Anyway, I hope the Supreme Court goes to town on the school officials in this case. Strip searching a minor based on no evidence is absolutely outrageous in my mind.

 

[Joey D]

How legal is it for the school to perform a search like that? I mean is that even remotely Constitutional? I really think it is in violation of the Fourth Amendment. Not to mention the girl was a minor at the time, which means her parents were legally responsible for her (am I correct in saying this?), they should have been contacted before this process began.

I also think even detaining the child and waiting on law enforcement is against the Constitution as well, there was zero proof and only accusations. She was held for no reason that I can see, since her information is clearly on file with the school and it would be very easy to track her down if there was a problem. The girl was accused of having (which I'm seeing she didn't have) ibuprofen, a harmless pain medication used to treat aches and pains.

I think the vice-principal should face criminal sexual charges too, he is obviously a sick man for making the girl do this. I assume he was in the room when this occurred, which I am going to guess is illegal as well. At the very least he should have stepped outside while the female nurse performed the search, at least he wouldn't have had anything to help him get his jollies.

I truly think this is disgusting and I will really loose respect for our court systems if they rule this to be OK since they are basically giving paedophiles in the school system an excuse to accuse children of a crime then be there when they see their young bodies...the thought of that makes me sick.

 

[Tornado]

This actually seems like a pretty simple case, and I'm surprised it even made it to the Supreme Court. I see a unanimous or near-unanimous verdict, if there is any justice.

 

[Northstar]

How legal is it for the school to perform a search like that? I mean is that even remotely Constitutional? I really think it is in violation of the Fourth Amendment. Not to mention the girl was a minor at the time, which means her parents were legally responsible for her (am I correct in saying this?), they should have been contacted before this process began.

I also think even detaining the child and waiting on law enforcement is against the Constitution as well, there was zero proof and only accusations. She was held for no reason that I can see, since her information is clearly on file with the school and it would be very easy to track her down if there was a problem. The girl was accused of having (which I'm seeing she didn't have) ibuprofen, a harmless pain medication used to treat aches and pains.

I think the vice-principal should face criminal sexual charges too, he is obviously a sick man for making the girl do this. I assume he was in the room when this occurred, which I am going to guess is illegal as well. At the very least he should have stepped outside while the female nurse performed the search, at least he wouldn't have had anything to help him get his jollies.

I truly think this is disgusting and I will really loose respect for our court systems if they rule this to be OK since they are basically giving paedophiles in the school system an excuse to accuse children of a crime then be there when they see their young bodies...the thought of that makes me sick.

I don't see how a school official holding a student until the police gets their is a violation of rights. It's basically the same thing as a citizens arrest.

Anyways, even if they found anything it would be dismissed in court seeing how it was illegally obtained(in more ways than one). This whole story makes me sick.

 

[wfooshee]

School officials do not need a warrant to search lockers, books, book bags, etc. A school setting is much like an airport, in that being there in the first place means an awareness of the possibility of being searched. There is nothing unconstituional about it.

These are children, not adults with adult rights and protections. While in school they are under the school's care and protection. Similarly, if your daughter held a slumber party, you would be within your rights to have the girls dump their purses and empty their pockets. If they don't like it, they can call mommy and go home. You have the right to protect your home. But you would be arrested (and rightly so) if you asked them to strip to their panties so you could "be sure."

In this case searching the purse, books, and pockets would have been reasonable if the suspicion was well substantiated. Anything further should have been left to law enforcement, but common sense and the student's record should have prevented it even getting that far.

There is absolutely no justification to strip a student without consulting the parents and law enforcement. None whatsoever.

 

[Joey D]

I don't see how a school official holding a student until the police gets their is a violation of rights. It's basically the same thing as a citizens arrest.

The school's officials aren't the law enforcement and they are holding a girl on wild speculation with no prior history of anything. I have to imagine they are holding a very scared and confused girl who wonder what she did wrong.

Everyone here knows how kids are around that time, if you don't like someone for whatever reason you do whatever to ruin their reputation. Perhaps the girl stole the accusing girl's crush or whatever. Silly childhood feuds shouldn't be evidence to strip a girl, let alone hold her against her will (I have to assume she didn't want to be held).

And really the girl was accused of have ibuprofen, hardly a danger to anyone. When I was in high school I carried bottles of ibuprofen with me all the time for aches, pains, etc. I would have thought it was absurd if I was told I couldn't have it. Plus it's really not that strange for a girl to have aspirin or ibuprofen in her purse, she's not a pusher, she probably just had cramps.

 

[Northstar]

Well in these days a lot more kids are using pain killers as drugs, making them illegal. I'm not trying to say the school was right but they weren't breaking the constitution by holding her.

 

[Omnis]

I don't see how a school official holding a student until the police gets their is a violation of rights. It's basically the same thing as a citizens arrest.

Even law enforcement can't arrest you for carrying ibuprofen. Know your rights.

 

[FoolKiller]

How legal is it for the school to perform a search like that? I mean is that even remotely Constitutional? I really think it is in violation of the Fourth Amendment. Not to mention the girl was a minor at the time, which means her parents were legally responsible for her (am I correct in saying this?), they should have been contacted before this process began.

Due to various court rulings there is legal precedent to allow search and seizure by school officials on school property and even in the cases of school events off campus (field trips), however the strip search concept is outside any of these previous precedents.

Schools can search any lockers they so choose, as it is technically their property.

I also think even detaining the child and waiting on law enforcement is against the Constitution as well,

When I was in school we called it detention or in school suspension. Keeping someone in the principals office due to suspicion of illegal activities while waiting for law enforcement is not violating anything, especially if it is still in school hours. The principal could just say he had more questions to ask her.

The issue is that schools are charged with protecting all the students and if one student is suspected of doing something to endanger others, including handing out legal over-the-counter medications (if the other student had stomach problems ibuprofen could be like poison), so courts grant them some leeway, particularly as minors do not get granted all the rights of an adult anyway (driving, voting, drinking,smoking, working 40 hours, etc).

Obviously I don't agree with all that, but I will agree that schools can search their own property. If they have cause to believe that they need to search personal property that is where I believe they should draw the line and bring in proper law enforcement. Detaining someone for law enforcement is not illegal. If you stop a mugger and hold him until the cops show up you arr doing nothing different. Now, if that person becomes detained for more than 24 hours without any charges being brought up then you are violating their rights.

The girl was accused of having (which I'm seeing she didn't have) ibuprofen, a harmless pain medication used to treat aches and pains.

I just want to get us all on the same page here. The accusation was prescription-strength ibuprofen, making it a controlled substance. Having had to travel with multiple prescriptions myself I understand the legal implications anything with the words "prescription-strength" in front of it has. I don't agree, but I do understand.

That said, schools have had to crackdown on over-the-counter drug abuse. I know two guys from my high school that OD'd on Tylenol during school trying to get high. One of them wound up with brain damage. The school could have been sued over that but wasn't.

I think the vice-principal should face criminal sexual charges too, he is obviously a sick man for making the girl do this. I assume he was in the room when this occurred, which I am going to guess is illegal as well. At the very least he should have stepped outside while the female nurse performed the search, at least he wouldn't have had anything to help him get his jollies.

I am unsure as to how much the vice-principal was directly involved, but if he was in the room under any circumstances I would be pressing charges against him personally.

I truly think this is disgusting and I will really loose respect for our court systems if they rule this to be OK since they are basically giving paedophiles in the school system an excuse to accuse children of a crime then be there when they see their young bodies...the thought of that makes me sick.

👍 I agree.

School officials do not need a warrant to search lockers, books, book bags, etc. A school setting is much like an airport, in that being there in the first place means an awareness of the possibility of being searched. There is nothing unconstituional about it.

I personally question the constitutionality of the bags, but I do know schools in more inner-city environments check all bags every day by requiring clear plastic or mesh bags, so there is a legal precedent at least.

The school's officials aren't the law enforcement and they are holding a girl on wild speculation with no prior history of anything. I have to imagine they are holding a very scared and confused girl who wonder what she did wrong.

Using the airport example again, tell a security guard you saw a guy with what looked like a gun. He will be detained and searched. I saw no issue with anything they did until the strip search.

Everyone here knows how kids are around that time, if you don't like someone for whatever reason you do whatever to ruin their reputation. Perhaps the girl stole the accusing girl's crush or whatever. Silly childhood feuds shouldn't be evidence to strip a girl, let alone hold her against her will (I have to assume she didn't want to be held).

It only takes one time for the accusation to be legitimate to throw this entire argument out the window. If it weren't for the fact that school rampage killers are often the guy you least suspect then this would seem an unnecessary way of dealing with a problem, but a school must follow every lead. However they do need to draw a line at just how far they will go.

Even law enforcement can't arrest you for carrying ibuprofen. Know your rights.

They can and will if you are giving prescription-strength painkillers to others. Whether they should be able to is a different discussion though.

 

[YSSMAN]

How legal is it for the school to perform a search like that? I mean is that even remotely Constitutional? I really think it is in violation of the Fourth Amendment. Not to mention the girl was a minor at the time, which means her parents were legally responsible for her (am I correct in saying this?), they should have been contacted before this process began.

As I recall, it is legal for schools and administrators to search students lockers and backpacks without a warrant, but anything else, has to have some kind of legal sign-off on it. Clearly, that was not the case here, which is why its gone to the highest court.

In my opinion, these administrators clearly stepped over the line. If it were that big of a problem, why were the police not contacted? Furthermore, why were the parents not contacted?

The interview I listened to on NPR this morning talking to the parties involved laid out the situation fairly, but in general, I don't see how the school or those administrators will be able to win out.

 

[Tornado]

As I recall, it is legal for schools and administrators to search students lockers and backpacks without a warrant, but anything else, has to have some kind of legal sign-off on it.

Even with backpacks I think the school has to have some kind of justification to present to police after the fact. I know that doesn't mean much, but it is something.

 

[niky]

double-post

 

[Jay]

Don't know where school officials got the idea they have the authority to conduct a strip seach. I would love to have seen them try and strip search me when I was back in school.






Actually I may have let one or two paticular members of the female staff go through with it

 

[ND4SPD]

Don't know where school officials got the idea they have the authority to conduct a strip seach. I would love to have seen them try and strip search me when I was back in school.






Actually I may have let one or two paticular members of the female staff go through with it

Agreed. There were quite a few attractive young female staff members at my old highschool haha.

 

[niky]

Don't know where school officials got the idea they have the authority to conduct a strip seach. I would love to have seen them try and strip search me when I was back in school.






Actually I may have let one or two paticular members of the female staff go through with it