Sure I want the new Ford GT, but I wouldn't trade a single VGT for it.

I wish you'd shut up with your bitching...
The same might apply to you, given the tone of that post. This is the internet, remember, so be mindful of the fact that you can't actually make anyone shut up nor necessarily make them listen to your viewpoint. If you can't debate without losing your temper, best to walk away until you calm down. If you can't do that, better leave it alone altogether or you will end up limiting your choice of places you can go to air your opinions.

Are you hearing me?
 
VGT is great if its:

- Quite Realistic (Example the Mazda lm55 and Alpine VGT might have a bit more realistic if it isnt have a full 4wd/Flappy side brakes. But that's only a minor thing and ignoring it it would be actually realistic. Cars like Nissan and Infiniti is okay. Meanwhile Tomahawk and Chapparal 2X is beyond unrealistic)

- Not a slight change to the base car (Example the BMW, Mitsubishi, Lexus, and Volkswagens second VGT is basically an existing car with a body kit and performance upgrades. Mercedes got the right track though even though it was heavily baswd on AMG GT). Not very imaginative in other words.

Meanwhile in Real life:

McLaren_MP4-12C.jpg


2015-mclaren-650s-spider-fd.jpg



2014-ferrari-458-italia_100435781_h.jpg


Ferrari-488_GTB_2016_234546756532-800x600.jpg


Yes these are real cars and not fictional, but the bolded part in your post is my point.

And don't even get me started with GM and Ford. Now Tell me again why this is wrong to do with fictional cars?
 
VGT was okay for a kick-off, now it's just another useless marketing gimmick for the auto industry when what we want is an actual :censored:ing GAME, not rolling advertisements for car makers using cars that will never exist, ever.

Well said.

Meanwhile in Real life:

McLaren_MP4-12C.jpg


2015-mclaren-650s-spider-fd.jpg



2014-ferrari-458-italia_100435781_h.jpg


Ferrari-488_GTB_2016_234546756532-800x600.jpg


Yes these are real cars and not fictional, but the bolded part in your post is my point.

And don't even get me started with GM and Ford. Now Tell me again why this is wrong to do with fictional cars?

That's what I'm talking about! PD is way, way behind the competition here. VGT is a nice program, but not at the expense of real production cars.
 
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Meanwhile in Real life:
Yes these are real cars and not fictional, but the bolded part in your post is my point.

And don't even get me started with GM and Ford. Now Tell me again why this is wrong to do with fictional cars?
You have a slight point with the McLarens since the 650S is admittedly, 25% new. The 488 GTB on the other hand is a valid & well-documented change over the out-going 458.
 
You have a slight point with the McLarens since the 650S is admittedly, 25% new. The 488 GTB on the other hand is a valid & well-documented change over the out-going 458.

I was under the impression it was basically a rebodied 458 as it just seemed more or less the same dimension wise (Based mostly on the 650S being not all that different from the MP4-12C). If its that different, then my mistake.
 
I was under the impression it was basically a rebodied 458 as it just seemed more or less the same dimension wise (Based mostly on the 650S being not all that different from the MP4-12C). If its that different, then my mistake.
The only part the 458 and 488 share is the roof panel.
 
VGT is definitely not a replacement to production and race cars @SlipZtrEm.
I think it is an amazing idea that could have been executed better. At the end of the day, they are concept cars with half of them being realistic ideas for production cars. I'm more for those type of cars, but the unreal ones have been awesome. Not all are "fun" to me though.

"An amazing idea that could have been executed better" is an increasingly common refrain, sadly.

The unreal ones have been awesome, sure, in the same way Wipeout appeals to me. It's a wild flight-of-fancy. The problem has always been, for me at any rate, that I already have a Wipeout-style game for things like that. It's called Wipeout. :P

Funnily enough, I've never once suggested people shouldn't enjoy them. That's fine. They just don't gel with what I enjoy games like GT for. Also, with the severe drought of actual real cars available post-release in GT6, VGT's effectively have replaced actual production cars. Whether it's because PD is saving all of them for GT7, whether they don't have the manpower to do both simultaneously, it doesn't matter: the cars aren't there.

Real cars. Real cars. Real cars.
Cars that exist, physically. Cars that enter a production line. Cars that work, mechanically. Cars that work as designed/intended. Cars my friend saw in the dealership. Cars that I've personally driven.

This treadmill so people can fit their complaints is pretty funny. I'd bet good money that it's mostly a reaction to the attachment of a "video game" company to the name of these concepts. Same kind of **** slinging "arguments" you see with "REAL SIMULATION!" between consoles/computers that is so baseless it makes Santa cry.

If you'd like to bet money on an assumption, that's fine. You'd be wrong; I've got no problem with a video game company co-opting into car production on any level: I think the GTbyCitroen was an awesome move. I was disappointed when it came out that they wouldn't be able to put it into production.

The Tomahawk is not the same thing. Neither is the Chaparral.

And everyone gets it.
A parcel loves road legal super cars mostly. They think most games lack this and most games favor something they don't like (normal >120hp cars).
Another parcel loves specific category racing cars. They think most games lack this and most games favor something they don't like (SuperGT cars).
Another parcel loves modern cars. Another parcel loves legendary racing cars. And so on.

Note that in all of the above examples, they're cars that actually exist. That's my particular favourite category: cars that exist. Old, new, from any country, road or race. I'm not too picky.

Why add the Suzuki Alto '16 when they could have spent the time modelling the 488 GTB, and why model the Ferrari when they could have modelled the M5 E28 CSL?

There could be a few reasons for those sorts of situations, actually.

And that is why this is such a laughable statement. GT has by far the largest representation (and no, I don't mean car count) of car types. Even if you take the 75% production cars 25% racing cars distribution, that's way less "lop-sided" than the group it represents (real life), so we'll fall again in terms of preferences.

Where are the 60's (or 70's) F1 cars? Where are the V8 Supercars? Modern supercars? Pre-war vehicles?

On the topic of lop-sidedness: yes, a game that has a car list where 58% of the garage is from Japan, while Italy and the UK both see 6% shares each is lop-sided. Or, if we'd rather look at years: 72% of GT6's car lineup sits between 1990 and 2009.
 
No. Both games are worlds apart from each other and give totally different experiences. NFS and Burnout are arcade games, but GT is geared towards simulation.

If the VGT's allow car companies and PD to collaborate with each other and form a relationship, wouldn't that in turn mean that we will get the latest products from them in the next GT?
You need only look at Forza's car list to see that anyone that wants the latest products can have them. I think car manufacturers are quite happy to make cars available for any game that wants them (Porsche excluded of course:rolleyes:). It's pretty much free exposure to millions of potential future buyers.
 
Personally, I would trade ALL the VGT cars for 1 real car if I were given the choice. Now, I know the game isn't designed to make ALB123 happy above all others, so I can live with things like VGT, no matter how ridiculous I think most of the cars have been. Having said that, I think the VGT program would have been much more successful if they were able to roll a new VGT out every month and wrap it all up within the first year. 12 companies, 12 cars... Each VGT release comes with a few challenges (races and super laps). Then it would have seemed like a fresh, steady program. Instead, it's like...You might get 2 cars this month and nothing for 3-4 months. Then another and nothing for 9 weeks. It's hard to stay excited about the program, even if it were releasing cars that I enjoyed.
 
I think the GTbyCitroen was an awesome move. I was disappointed when it came out that they wouldn't be able to put it into production.

The Tomahawk is not the same thing. Neither is the Chaparral.

They are not the same thing because they won't(?) see a "functioning" model, not even a "functioning as designed" (that is, using an ablation system or a souped up V10) because with the Citroen they slapped a gasoline engine in its body, not much different from the Volks VGTs that had "functioning" prototypes, in other words, they are driveable. But that's because carcasses are usually not the brunt of R&D.
GT did pass safety checks and a bunch of other to be vendable and road legal I suppose.

Note that in all of the above examples, they're cars that actually exist. That's my particular favourite category: cars that exist. Old, new, from any country, road or race. I'm not too picky.

There could be a few reasons for those sorts of situations, actually.

Where are the 60's (or 70's) F1 cars? Where are the V8 Supercars? Modern supercars? Pre-war vehicles?

Returning to my post there's this part:

"By these perspectives every selection that does not include all elements possible to a set will be considered lop-sided and hole-filled by someone somewhere."

Where are the 70/80's NASCARs, Formula Indy from a number of decades and etc.

All (or charitably, most) elements of the set or else always hole-filled. Unless there's an objective proposition avoiding personal preference on why some characteristics sets are more important/necessary than others.

And you said it yourself, you do know there are "a few reasons for those sorts of situations".
I'll even help it out as it serves to the point below:
Game series developed in Japan, starting 1996, where at first they modeled not only from production cars, but scale models, practice that had a drastic shift in the late first decade from the 2000's because of the added preoccupations of model representation fidelity, one aspect of that being interiors which made production times much slower.

On the topic of lop-sidedness: yes, a game that has a car list where 58% of the garage is from Japan, while Italy and the UK both see 6% shares each is lop-sided. Or, if we'd rather look at years: 72% of GT6's car lineup sits between 1990 and 2009.

So it's lop-sided in relation to an (approximately) even distribution? Be it in terms of country or date.
If we have 200 japanese cars, should we see 200 or so americans cars, 200 or so italian cars, 200 or so german cars? And swedish, and spanish, and indian. Same goes for year of production.

I definetely agree with that.
But I do know a few good reasons for that sort of situation. And it's somewhat an impossible "problem" to fix. Unless they even it out by just subtracting elements rather than adding, which doesn't seem like a good solution for what it is a "perception of sufficiency" issue and the general design message of representing most types of cars.

https://www.gran-turismo.com/local/jp/data1/products/gt6/carlist_en.html You can see too that majority of new cars added to GT6 are not japanese, so hey, bright days.

And it's sensible to assume that VGTs are not an aggravant to the (lack of) appearance of new "real cars" (manufactured or driven as designed).
 
I was under the impression it was basically a rebodied 458 as it just seemed more or less the same dimension wise (Based mostly on the 650S being not all that different from the MP4-12C). If its that different, then my mistake.
Dimension wise, yeah, they're pretty similar. But, a lot of what Ferrari developed from the LaFerrari has made its way into the 488. A couple of reviewers have praised just how open it is to any sort of driver & can easily be tailored for more of a challenge the more you start to make the car rely solely on you. Pretty impressive machine; Harris believed Ferrari may have re-invented the turbo with how the responsive the new engine is.
 
A lot of fuss has been made over Forza 6's car list, especially the new Ford GT. The noise will only get louder as the casual gamers switch to what is new and shiny.

As I reflect back on GT 6 I can't help but be really impressed with the VGT cars. Some people just don't get it. These manufacturers are putting real resources and real money towards these designs. Many of which I think will start to appear in some form or another in their actual production lines. I feel the best is yet to come for the VGT cars and I can't wait to see how it all ends. So Forza you can have the current model Ford GT, I'll see you in the future with my VGT's.
We also saw all the concept vehicles in the 50's. And how much truly came from those concepts Do you really think anything can be used from the SRT VGT? Active aero is already available in some cars. I think the best VGTs are the ones that didn't stray far from realism, Puegot, BMW, Toyota and Lexus are notable. I don't mind the VGTs, but I think that with all the time and effort put into it, resources could have went to something better.


Edit: Going to unwatch this on account of all the other crap that I've seen. People arguing for pointless reasons...soo have fun guys.
 
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Kazunori Yamauchi is a well respected man in both motor racing and game software.
With Gran Turismo behind him as his means to provide the general public an insight into future car design, it's no wonder the leading world car manufacturers have jumped onboard this project.
It's an amazing project that other racing game software makers would jump on in a heart-beat.

It's amusing how some here seem to try to convince others that it's worthless.
Personal preference to hoped for DLC? ... sure.
But to deny the influence of the man and the game to convince manufacturers to take part in this project is nothing more than negative bias.
The project alone is at least worthy of appreciation.
 
Although I really like concepts I only like those which actually exist rather than ones which were dreamt up purely for GT. I'm not a fan of the Vision GT cars if I'm honest and would have preferred existing motor show concept cars.

As for Forza I'm sure it's only a matter of time before thy start doing something similar with manufacturers, hell if Hot Wheels can do it so can Turn 10!
 
OP has the classic 'console war' attitude. I dont play GT6 and play it solely and hate on Forza. I have a Xbox and will buy Forza 6 in a few weeks time.

I hate on them all equally.

Obviously the fact that PD are moving to monthly seasonals makes it even easier.

Everything PD is weak at, Turn 10 are strong at and vice versa. The unveiling of any AAA title of this magnitude is a momentus event for people like me who like this sort of crap.

I suspect even at its worst, Forza 6 will be amusing me well into the new year.

I dont see it as an us or them scenario.
 
I personally have no issue with the idea of fantasy cars, I mean we have LM Race Cars which are pretty nice but the issue that it seems to overlap GT6 and now all GT6 has to offer nnow is random cars and to be honest rarely any of them are good.

Too much rely on something outrageous it is hard to take seriously at least with the LM Race Cars they just brought normal Road Cars into the Racing Car scene. Here we have some stupid gimmick with each car it feels more like they introduced a new character with a different gameplay style in Smash Bros. which doesn't really work for a "Sim" game.

The fact that the only thing we are truly waiting on for GT6 that has a likely chance of coming out is the next VGT, which will follow some ridiculous gimmick that feels to silly to be enjoyed as a legit car.
 
Personally I think PD and the manufacturers missed an opportunity with the VGT programme to link to heritage and current models. If VGT cars were released with a current model and an iconic historic car from that makers range it would tie the past, present and future together and could have kept everybody happy. I presume this wasn't possible due to PD's limited resources and the need to save cars for GT7.

I'm impressed that Kazunori was able to get the industry involved with the VGT programme, but disappointed that they didn't take the opportunity to add current and historic content to give those concepts some context.
 
Why some people complain about the lack of new cars in GT6, if they will end up using only the 15-20 fastest/most competitive cars in online races? ;)

To give a quick example no one uses the brand new BMW M4 because its not good enough and instead they use the older M3 CSL and M3 GTR because they are faster.

So there you go, complaining is just trendy nowadays.

Anyway VGT project is great, and most VGT cars are great. If you say otherwise, in my opinion you are not a true car fan. A true car fan will love both real cars and virtual concept cars.
 
Why some people complain about the lack of new cars in GT6, if they will end up using only the 15-20 fastest/most competitive cars in online races? ;)

To give a quick example no one uses the brand new BMW M4 because its not good enough and instead they use the older M3 CSL and M3 GTR because they are faster.

So there you go, complaining is just trendy nowadays.

Anyway VGT project is great, and most VGT cars are great. If you say otherwise, in my opinion you are not a true car fan. A true car fan will love both real cars and virtual concept cars.
You realize that the number of people who go online racing is a tiny, tiny % of the overall player base right? 10 million copies of GT5 sold and there were only a couple of hundred public lobbies at any one time and many of those were cruise/drag/drift/stance etc.
 
You realize that the number of people who go online racing is a tiny, tiny % of the overall player base right? 10 million copies of GT5 sold and there were only a couple of hundred public lobbies at any one time and many of those were cruise/drag/drift/stance etc.
And you relise that many of these people who bought it may not have time to play and/or cant be connected often, or only can play once in a while, and its impossible that all people in the world can connect together?
So I dont get whats your point, I'm talking in general terms about what is seen online, because that's what you can see.
 
You realize that the number of people who go online racing is a tiny, tiny % of the overall player base right? 10 million copies of GT5 sold and there were only a couple of hundred public lobbies at any one time and many of those were cruise/drag/drift/stance etc.
If i really being honest and fair, aside from games like COD, Destiny, etc. Almost all games is that. Massive sales numbers, onlined by a few.
 
And you relise that many of these people who bought it may not have time to play and/or cant be connected often, or only can play once in a while, and its impossible that all people in the world can connect together?
So I dont get whats your point, I'm talking in general terms about what is seen online, because that's what you can see.
You generalized the entire player base, based on the behaviour of a tiny minority of players, to conclude that we shouldn't complain about the lack of new cars. Faulty reasoning = faulty conclusion
 
You generalized the entire player base, based on the behaviour of a tiny minority of players, to conclude that we shouldn't complain about the lack of new cars. Faulty reasoning = faulty conclusion
Prove me wrong by showing proof... oh no you cant. How can you possibly know what the rest of the people use offline?
 
Anyway VGT project is great, and most VGT cars are great. If you say otherwise, in my opinion you are not a true car fan. A true car fan will love both real cars and virtual concept cars.
And you call this a car.
For me this is fictional arcade toy.
Just look how these ''wings'' are attached to the car body.
At speed of 500-600 km/h those wings will fly away like a newspaper in tornado F5 :lol:

Special Stage Route X.jpg
Special Stage Route X_1.jpg
Special Stage Route X_2.jpg
 
Prove me wrong by showing proof... oh no you cant. How can you possibly know what the rest of the people use offline?
I don't know what they use offline and neither do you. That's the point.
 
Prove me wrong by showing proof... oh no you cant. How can you possibly know what the rest of the people use offline?

Meanwhile where is your proof that you are right?

Why some people complain about the lack of new cars in GT6, if they will end up using only the 15-20 fastest/most competitive cars in online races? ;)

To give a quick example no one uses the brand new BMW M4 because its not good enough and instead they use the older M3 CSL and M3 GTR because they are faster.

So there you go, complaining is just trendy nowadays.

Anyway VGT project is great, and most VGT cars are great. If you say otherwise, in my opinion you are not a true car fan. A true car fan will love both real cars and virtual concept cars.

Excellent point about only a small number of cars being used though. I take it that means all the rest can be regarded as wasted effort by PD and we should campaign for their removal? Oh and I'm not a car fan because I don't like PURE FANTASY CARS then? That's very funny.
 
And you call this a car.
For me this is fictional arcade toy.
Just look how these ''wings'' are attached to the car body.
At speed of 500-600 km/h those wings will fly away like a newspaper in tornado F5 :lol:

View attachment 439632 View attachment 439634 View attachment 439635
This one is indeed a fantasy car, Along with the Chaparral laser car, but still I think they're a nice and different driving experience. You're not forced to use them, let others enjoy.
Meanwhile where is your proof that you are right?

Excellent point about only a small number of cars being used though. I take it that means all the rest can be regarded as wasted effort by PD and we should campaign for their removal? Oh and I'm not a car fan because I don't like PURE FANTASY CARS then? That's very funny.
Enter online rooms with PP restriction, and look the cars they usually use, thats the proof.
People are to blame for not using all cars, not a wasted efford by PD. Why always blame PD for everything?
Yes, in my opinion true car fans will like futuristic concept cars too.
 
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Prove me wrong by showing proof... oh no you cant. How can you possibly know what the rest of the people use offline?

No, really, you first:

Why some people complain about the lack of new cars in GT6, if they will end up using only the 15-20 fastest/most competitive cars in online races? ;)

[citation required]

To give a quick example no one uses the brand new BMW M4 because its not good enough and instead they use the older M3 CSL and M3 GTR because they are faster.

[citation required]

Anyway VGT project is great, and most VGT cars are great. If you say otherwise, in my opinion you are not a true car fan. A true car fan will love both real cars and virtual concept cars.

Ah, the No True Scotsman approach. Gotcha.
 
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