Suzuka 2014 vs Original Suzuka Comparasion!

[Kurb2kurB]

I plan to enjoy this new updated track

 

[LancerEvo7]

I also don't understand why some people say PD need to update all tracks to have time and weather change, and then get mad when they start doing it.

 

[metramt8]

I'm not expecting a 24 hour cycle, but I don't think there's any tracks that can be driven at 06:00 and don't have one. We'll have to wait and see.

Only Brands Hatch, from 6AM to 8PM. Silverstone has from 8AM to 7-8PM I think.

I also don't understand why some people say PD need to update all tracks to have time and weather change, and then get mad when they start doing it.

True, I think it's very important, specially now that we are looking for GT7.

 

[Matteo05]

Now the question is: has it a full day/night cycle or only partial like Silverstone?
I think they also have to remove the version without weather changes, I never understand why they keep both...

 

[SCER]

Looking forward to re-learning the final chicane and mucking about in the Spoon curve infield. Wonder what else the update will bring.

 

[SSQES]

I hate this track, but the update looks awesome

 

[Furinkazen]

Now the question is: has it a full day/night cycle or only partial like Silverstone?
I think they also have to remove the version without weather changes, I never understand why they keep both...

Why not have weather on new one 💡

 

[dimassa19]

Why not have weather on new one 💡

Already have.

 

[Tenacious D]

I have the feelings it has something to do with the FIA deal PD made a few months ago. All reallife tracks could get officially updated to FIA-spec?

That's what I was thinking when I read the Pit Stop article, and they mentioned all the FIA racing going on at Suzuka. And then the modeling team swarms the track. It does suggest that the real world tracks are going to get an overhaul - if not fantasy tracks too, as part of that trickle down from work on GT7.

Hopefully (FIA) have also mandated that PD put something that resembles racing into the game as well.

As much as all those other improvements like sounds and a Livery Editor matter, I think the one thing that would make GT6 feel like a whole new game is a bot A.I. upgrade, so they would feel more like real life racers. It's just not right after a five lap race for the time difference between first and last place is often a minute and a half. They need to tighten up the field so there are groups and single cars separated by no more than several seconds towards the end of the race, and there are at least three cars making a last minute run for the finish line. If that requires real honest to god rubber banding, so be it. Quick edit, I recall that the Super GT 300 and 500 races in the I-A Class are much tighter like that, with a usual time spread of less than 40 seconds. PD, make it so!

By the way, just informed this is TD post 7001, woo me.

 

[Stylel_Code]

Spec 2 is coming! (throws oil in the fire)

 

[AleksandarSRB]

Why not have weather on new one 💡

He think that we already have track without and with weather changes and now we will have third version with weather and day/ night change. So why not remove first version without weather and day/ night changes . Same for Spa, and other track who have their copies without weather anday/ night changes .

 

[BrandonW77]

The blog is not clear about that question, only saying that it will be posible to set at 6AM without telling us more.

Silverstone, Brands Hatch and Ascari don't have full cycle neither. And because of this.

Your presumptions are sound, but they are not fact and should not be presented as such. I would also guess that Suzuka will only be a dawn-to-dusk time cycle but I'm not claiming my opinion to be fact and neither should anyone else.

As much as all those other improvements like sounds and a Livery Editor matter, I think the one thing that would make GT6 feel like a whole new game is a bot A.I. upgrade, so they would feel more like real life racers. It's just not right after a five lap race for the time difference between first and last place is often a minute and a half. They need to tighten up the field so there are groups and single cars separated by no more than several seconds towards the end of the race, and there are at least three cars making a last minute run for the finish line. If that requires real honest to god rubber banding, so be it.

By the way, just informed this is TD post 7001, woo me.

The thing that would make it feel like a whole new game would be to offer actual race structure, with a practice session and qualifying session and let us pick how long the race is and how extreme the tire/fuel wear/damage is. Better yet, with a grid of cars in the same class and not a mish-mash of random cars from the game that have no relation to each other. You know, basic elements of racing games that have been present elsewhere for a decade or more, yet are complete mysteries to PD. And yes, the AI could be a bit better too. Too bad none of these things will likely happen.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

As much as all those other improvements like sounds and a Livery Editor matter, I think the one thing that would make GT6 feel like a whole new game is a bot A.I. upgrade, so they would feel more like real life racers. It's just not right after a five lap race for the time difference between first and last place is often a minute and a half. They need to tighten up the field so there are groups and single cars separated by no more than several seconds towards the end of the race, and there are at least three cars making a last minute run for the finish line. If that requires real honest to god rubber banding, so be it.

Personally, this is my biggest problem with GT right now; not the vacumm cleaner jokes, nor the lack of an option for creating liveries.

In my mind, GT is first and foremost a Racing game. This means it should have a strong racing component, and GT6 lacks such a thing. PD resorts to the infamous "rabbit chase" system to hide the lack of a proper A.I. that fights the player on even terms without being overly agressive. GT's A.I. has always lacked a proper racing instinct; after you overtake them, unless your car has a negative performance deficit that allows the A.I. to catch up, they just give up, fall behind and create the massive gap @Tenacious D mentions. Such gap looks far too unrealistic and turns the races into boring time trials where you drive for laps and laps without a proper rival to fight against.

Sure, seasonal events are a bit different, but their biggest problem is that only one (overpowered) rival fights against you while everybody else stands far back (again, the rabbit system at work). If people have to pick one improvement to future GT games that PD can do, that should be the A.I and not the usual suspects that they complain so much about.

If GT does not work properly as a racing game, then everything else is made redundant. No good sounds or cool created liveries will help the game.

 

[MMX]

I'm not expecting a 24 hour cycle, but I don't think there's any tracks that can be driven at 06:00 and don't have one. We'll have to wait and see.

What's the earliest time for Sierra? I'm thinking it's either 06:00, or 08:00. I know it's pretty low light, whatever time it is.

 

[BrandonW77]

Personally, this is my biggest problem with GT right now; not the vacumm cleaner jokes, and not the lack of an option for creating liveries.

In my mind, GT is first and foremost a Racing game. This means it should have a strong racing component, and GT6 lacks such a thing. PD resorts to the infamous "rabbit chase" system to hide the lack of a proper A.I. that fights the player on even terms without being overly agressive. GT's A.I. has always lacked a proper racing instinct; after you overtake them, unless your car has a negative performance deficit that allows the A.I. to catch up, they just give up and create the massive gap @Tenacious D mentions. Such gap looks far too unrealistic and turns the races into boring time trials where you drive for laps and laps without a proper rival to fight against.

Sure, seasonal events are a bit different, but their biggest problem is that only (overpowered) one rival fights against you while everybody else stands far back (again, the rabbit system at work). If people have to pick one improvement to future GT games that PD can do, that should be the A.I and not the usual suspects.

One of the main reasons for the rabbit system is that the PS3 cannot handle 12+ AI cars on screen in close proximity without having substantial frame rate drop, so PD in their wisdom decided the best solution was to spread them out far enough that we never have more than a few AI cars on our screen at once. In the early days of GT5 we had proper standing starts, but the frame rate would take a hit so PD took this option away from us, rather than build an optimized game that could handle multiple AI cars on screen at once.

 

[IneedSchool]

⠀

 

[FoRiZon]

OP updated. Now acommodating PitStop details article and also pointing out about the last chicane.

 

[Tenacious D]

BrandonW77 and Niku Driver covered the two bases that could stand to be implemented. In particular, Brandon's mention in essence of an Event Maker would also make GT6 a far better game than it is now, because the lack of single player events wouldn't be an issue anymore, when you can whip up no end of events yourself. And this tool would be a godsend to the online community, because it would be almost impossible without it to create online racing clubs and leagues, racing special events all through a mini racing season with a championship race.

And as Brandon says, the real hodge podge of car types you see in these single player events is just nuts. Rally cars, Touring cars, DTM cars, Super GT cars... it's simply a mess. PD needs enough cars of single or dual class to fill up a grid. They could do this either by licensing more racing teams, or creating fantasy liveries for race cars, I'd be fine with that. But they should hire a few graphic artists with a talent for creating these original liveries, because the ones they've created so far for their Race Mod cars aren't all that great. I'd love to see a whole slew of FIA racing in GT6 from every league Kaz can get a contract for, but it won't be as good as it should be without schooling the bots, and making sure they have enough appropriate race cars for an event. As others have said, qualifying against these timid bots is kind of a waste of time, when you get pole position and then the bots all give up after half a lap.

I know this is a bit off topic, but I think it's related to the race track improvements. Gran Turismo needs a whole top to bottom maintenance as it migrates to the much more capable PS4.

One of the main reasons for the rabbit system is that the PS3 cannot handle 12+ AI cars on screen in close proximity without having substantial frame rate drop, so PD in their wisdom decided the best solution was to spread them out far enough that we never have more than a few AI cars on our screen at once. In the early days of GT5 we had proper standing starts, but the frame rate would take a hit so PD took this option away from us, rather than build an optimized game that could handle multiple AI cars on screen at once.

You're probably right. GT5 Prologue had tighter fields, at least at the start of a race, and all cars were Premiums. And GT5 itself would have standing starts with a 16 car field in Arcade Mode. However, GT6 does have a bigger load on the PS3 to deliver with a reworked physics engine, as well as a higher resolution graphics engine, with tesselation and that annoyingly fuzzy AA. So most likely something had to be sacrificed.

Which makes me sad, to think that what I want can't happen in GT6. I'm hopeful that a Spec 2.0 update will scavenge something so the PS3 can handle improved bots and tighter fields, as well as standing starts on some races again. If not, I'm going to be starving for GT7...

 

[Niku Driver HC]

One of the main reasons for the rabbit system is that the PS3 cannot handle 12+ AI cars on screen in close proximity without having substantial frame rate drop, so PD in their wisdom decided the best solution was to spread them out far enough that we never have more than a few AI cars on our screen at once. In the early days of GT5 we had proper standing starts, but the frame rate would take a hit so PD took this option away from us, rather than build an optimized game that could handle multiple AI cars on screen at once.

Interesting insght, so the whole "rabbit chase" system is due to the same techincal limitations that Kaz so often mentions when he speaks about the better potential of the PS4? Instead of putting even more strain on the PS3, PD decided to ensure that the slower frame rate issue would not become a major problem by not getting the cars too close to each other. If that's the case, am I right in saying that the A.I. issue should be partially solved by the PS4's better specs?

Of course, the other half can only be solved if PD makes heavy modifications to the A.I. bot codes, I am not ruling out that part.

And back on topic, it is good news that Suzuka is being reworked, perhaps this might have future implications on other World tracks. That "reworked West course" bit is interesting, if it is in fact a driveable track.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

One of the main reasons for the rabbit system is that the PS3 cannot handle 12+ AI cars on screen in close proximity without having substantial frame rate drop

I'm no tech genius so may be wrong, but wouldn't that be a GPU problem rather than a CPU problem which is where the AI would be processed. I would think it's the amount of polygons the GPU is trying to throw out that is causing the frame rate drop.

 

[gregorius93]

Monaco at night is even better!

Imagine the city lights

oh my god, that's gonna be awesome

 

[Zlork]

Finally confirmed ! I'm excited to drive on Suzuka with the rising sun !

 

[MatskiMonk]

Since you said this...

Your presumptions are sound, but they are not fact and should not be presented as such

I wondered if you had a source for this...

One of the main reasons for the rabbit system is that the PS3 cannot handle 12+ AI cars on screen in close proximity without having substantial frame rate drop, so PD in their wisdom decided the best solution was to spread them out far enough that we never have more than a few AI cars on our screen at once. In the early days of GT5 we had proper standing starts, but the frame rate would take a hit so PD took this option away from us, rather than build an optimized game that could handle multiple AI cars on screen at once.

.. I'm pretty sure you are right, but I wasn't aware that it was ever confirmed/admitted by PD as being the case?

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

Finally confirmed ! I'm excited to drive on Suzuka with the rising sun !

While listening to this, of course:

 

[BrandonW77]

BrandonW77 and Niku Driver covered the two bases that could stand to be implemented. In particular, Brandon's mention in essence of an Event Maker would also make GT6 a far better game than it is now, because the lack of single player events wouldn't be an issue anymore, when you can whip up no end of events yourself. And this tool would be a godsend to the online community, because it would be almost impossible without it to create online racing clubs and leagues, racing special events all through a mini racing season with a championship race.

And as Brandon says, the real hodge podge of car types you see in these single player events is just nuts. Rally cars, Touring cars, DTM cars, Super GT cars... it's simply a mess. PD needs enough cars of single or dual class to fill up a grid. They could do this either by licensing more racing teams, or creating fantasy liveries for race cars, I'd be fine with that. But they should hire a few graphic artists with a talent for creating these original liveries, because the ones they've created so far for their Race Mod cars aren't all that great. I'd love to see a whole slew of FIA racing in GT6 from every league Kaz can get a contract for, but it won't be as good as it should be without schooling the bots, and making sure they have enough appropriate race cars for an event. As others have said, qualifying against these timid bots is kind of a waste of time, when you get pole position and then the bots all give up after half a lap.

I know this is a bit off topic, but I think it's related to the race track improvements. Gran Turismo needs a whole top to bottom maintenance as it migrates to the much more capable PS4.


You're probably right. GT5 Prologue had tighter fields, at least at the start of a race, and all cars were Premiums. And GT5 itself would have standing starts with a 16 car field in Arcade Mode. However, GT6 does have a bigger load on the PS3 to deliver with a reworked physics engine, as well as a higher resolution graphics engine, with tesselation and that annoyingly fuzzy AA. So most likely something had to be sacrificed.

Which makes me sad, to think that what I want can't happen in GT6. I'm hopeful that a Spec 2.0 update will scavenge something so the PS3 can handle improved bots and tighter fields, as well as standing starts on some races again. If not, I'm going to be starving for GT7...

And these reasons are why I ordered a PC last week, so I can enjoy some proper racing.

Interesting insght, so the whole "rabbit chase" system is due to the same techincal limitations that Kaz so often mentions when he speaks about the better potential of the PS4? Instead of putting even more strain on the PS3, PD decided to ensure that the slower frame rate issue would not become a major problem by not getting the cars too close to each other. If that's the case, am I right in saying that the A.I. issue should be partially solved by the PS4's better specs?

Of course, the other half can only be solved if PD makes heavy modifications to the A.I. bot codes, I am not ruling out that part.

This was the reasoning given in the early days of GT5 as to why they removed standing starts from career mode, hardware couldn't handle all those AI cars so close together and launching with tire smoke and such.

I'm no tech genius so may be wrong, but wouldn't that be a GPU problem rather than a CPU problem which is where the AI would be processed. I would think it's the amount of polygons the GPU is trying to throw out that is causing the frame rate drop.

Does the PS3 have an actual dedicated GPU? All I know is the PS3 has less than a quarter of a gig of memory to render all this stuff, so when you figure in the polygons, the smoke/particle effects, and the AI programing it suddenly became too much for this hardware so they removed the standing start feature from all A-spec races. One would have hoped things had been optimized in GT6 so we could have standing starts again, but it appears they went the wrong direction and had to space the rabbits out even more than in GT5.

PD has a history of making software that exceeds the capability of the hardware, I would not expect GT7 to be any different. Sure, the PS4 is far more capable but that won't prevent PD from creating software that exceeds its capabilities. Rabbit chasing FTW.

Since you said this...



I wondered if you had a source for this...



.. I'm pretty sure you are right, but I wasn't aware that it was ever confirmed/admitted by PD as being the case?

I'm not going to dig through 4 years of GTP news to find it but I'm quite sure some people here will corroborate my story. Perhaps only @Jordan can help.

 

[metramt8]

What's the earliest time for Sierra? I'm thinking it's either 06:00, or 08:00. I know it's pretty low light, whatever time it is.

The sunset in each circuit depends on his location, that's a good detail from PD. At 17:50 Ascari doesn't have the same sunlight as Nürburgring. I think in Japan it gets dark around 17:00, so we might can chose from 06:00 to 17:00-18:00? However let's hope we can get full time cycle.

Earliest time on Sierra is 6:30, which is right for Spain, althought in this season of the year at 7:00 is full night here yet

 

[TokoTurismo]

Can't complain about a track getting updated. This is good. 👍

 

[Scuderia Paul]

Now the question is: has it a full day/night cycle or only partial like Silverstone?

I think it will be like Silverstone. If it had a full day-night cycle I imagine they would have shown a night screenshot.

 

[FoRiZon]

Comparsion again! :

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More pictures about the "Spoon Curve FENCE":

Hold on Honda. You soon got to be there

 

[Niku Driver HC]

This was the reasoning given in the early days of GT5 as to why they removed standing starts from career mode, hardware couldn't handle all those AI cars so close together and launching with tire smoke and such.

PD has a history of making software that exceeds the capability of the hardware, I would not expect GT7 to be any different. Sure, the PS4 is far more capable but that won't prevent PD from creating software that exceeds its capabilities. Rabbit chasing FTW.

It's understandable that that theory still holds up to this day. After all, the only thing GT6 did was putting even more strain on the PS3, so it's obvious that the hardware would be far too pushed if they maintained that option.

About that second point, I guess PD should stop exceeding the capabilities with their games in order to fix their core features first. Pushing the hardware with a lackluster racing component is not going to impress anybody. It sure as hell doesn't impress me.


Anywho, before there are complaints about being off-topic, I do have a question. Since Suzuka is going to be updated, does this mean that the events that are already held at the track will feature the new version?

BTW, great comparison shots, @FrzGT. One day that yellow Honda will be there to take some great photos of the Spoon Corner. That will also be a great meeting place for online car meets, I reckon. 💡