The AI are moronic punters

[tyl0r_r]

GT4 physics - Mario Karts level

GT5 physics - second class compare to Forza 2 and Shift, but more interesting than Forza 3

Well I know you're full of it because I have godlike skills in every Mario Kart (not saying I'm proud, but there you have it) and I sucked at GT4 (ditto).

I wish people could complain in a way that can actually be responded to instead of spouting hyperbolic junk.

 

[objp]

Compared to GT4, compared to Forza, compared to NFS... Compared to real life, what else can you compare realism to?

Are you suggesting otherwise?

The driving model isn't that great. There's several PC sims that beat the hell out of it. It does beat Forza 3 though IMO.

 

[imaROBOT_]

I've ran into some pretty dumb situations with the AI, but for the most part they really are not that bad.

 

[Jacob6875]

dare i say you braked a bit too early?

I dunno its possible but I was accelerating out of the corner at the time when the AI bumped me and caused my wheel to go into the grass which caused me to spin. Even if I went into that corner a little slower then normal why didnt the AI pass me on the inside or something? The AI not caring about making contact with you is one of the worst parts of there programming. If this is supposed to be the real driving simulator they should do everything possible to avoid another car.

 

[CarreraGT]

The driving model isn't that great. There's several PC sims that beat the hell out of it. It does beat Forza 3 though IMO.

I agree there are better PC sims but it definitely beats any other console.

Anyone with any driving/racing experience can feel the similarities between GT5 and real life. Sure some things may be watered down a bit but overall its a realistic feeling simulation.

The whole concept of GT Academy highlights this pretty well

 

[otago]

There's several PC sims that beat the hell out of it. It does beat Forza 3 though IMO.

Forza 2 has better physics than any budget PC sim.

Agree about Forza 3

 

[CarreraGT]

GT4 physics - Mario Karts level

GT5 physics - second class compare to Forza 2 and Shift, but more interesting than Forza 3

And yeah that is a pretty pointless comment. Second class to Shift? It seems you are confusing physics with fun. Fun is subjective, physics is not

 

[jeepster2982]

playing thru the trashcar championship, what an effin joke. first place throughout the entire laguna seca race then last lap, last turn i get bulldozed off the turn into the grass. this bulldozing effect with the AI is just unacceptable. common sense says if a car is wrapped around your bumper STOP HITTING THE FRIGGIN GAS.

 

[YellowG1]

Definitely the worst aspect of the game by far. Needs to be the subject of a patch and soon.

 

[NOS Waster]

Forza 2 has better physics than any budget PC sim.

Agree about Forza 3

iRacing and LFS beat the hell out of any console "sim"

LFS being the budget sim
iRacing being the hardcore sim

 

[marius00]

I am wandering how the AI got through in-house QA testing and passed. Its too good a game to deserve this AI.

 

[otago]

iRacing and LFS beat the hell out of any console "sim"

Nope. Forza 2 beats the crap out of this PC sims.

9000 parameters on each car, approximation of real life tires data instead this stupid Paseca formula and so on

 

[objp]

Nope. Forza 2 beats the crap out of this PC sims.

9000 parameters on each car, approximation of real life tires data instead this stupid Paseca formula and so on

LOL. That's called marketing buddy. The tire model on Forza 2 is nothing special.

 

[otago]

LOL. That's called marketing buddy.

It's called physics engine.

We have PC sims with outdated physics engines going back to the beginning of 2000-th, featuring fake imaginary cars and made by two people with 100$ budget. They are more realistic because they are on PC of course. Just because of that - this is obvious.

From other side we have some console sim, with real cars. Made by 100 people and 10-20 millions $ budget. I know the books which Turn 10 used, I know how many parameters and frames physics engine uses. I know they worked with Toyo tires engineers cause they weren't satisfied with this ancient paseca formula, which all PC sims happily use. I saw them driving real cars and testing them on stands, recording sound, etc.

But of course it's not realistic cause it consoles, fake cars from LFS which never ever existed are much more realistic! LOL

 

[objp]

I have Forza 2. I also have iRacing. There's no comparison between the two. Forza 2 feels extremely, extremely dated in comparison. But do go on and believe your marketing.

 

[otago]

I have Forza 2. I also have iRacing. There's no comparison between the two. Forza 2 feels extremely, extremely dated in comparison. But do go on and believe your marketing.

I don't believe in anything. iRacing use NASCAR 2003 engine which itself goes back to GPL. Guess which one is more outdated.

I also don't care about what anybody "feels", because I saw some people who feels that NFS Most Wanted is exactly spot on.

The truth is all modern games including GT5 do physics good enough so you can't point to something: this is obviously wrong!

There is one way to find out once and for all: record control input while driving real car hard on track and then put this input into the same car in game. Which game reproduces exactly what happens with real car on track - wins.

 

[JacoJa]

I find it very strange how there's so much talk about the 'poor' AI in this game. I'm almost at Level 21, and I've never seen an AI car causing an incident, or running into me. I think they are very good in this game.

That said, they do not lift off the throttle in NASCAR races during an incident.

 

[objp]

I don't believe in anything. iRacing use NASCAR 2003 engine which itself goes back to GPL. Guess which one is more outdated.

I also don't care about what anybody "feels", because I saw some people who feels that NFS Most Wanted is exactly spot on.

The truth is all modern games including GT5 do physics good enough so you can't point to something: this is obviously wrong!

There is one way to find out once and for all: record control input while driving real car hard on track and then put this input into the same car in game. Which game reproduces exactly what happens with real car on track - wins.

Well the iRacing would win because their tracks are the most accurate.

iRacing's engine is based on the NR2003 engine but its extremely modified.

 

[otago]

...

Just a small example why I don't like paseca formula

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bwiY26Zd3o

even the first phase of spin is a physics bug, cars don't spin like this.

I find it very strange how there's so much talk about the 'poor' AI in this game. I'm almost at Level 21, and I've never seen an AI car causing an incident, or running into me.

It happens some time, but so in other games (and in Shift AI crashes into you like every 5 seconds). In Forza AI is very good in kicking you from track (depends on car you drive and track), and don't forget Mr. Rossi

My biggest concern is that GT5 AI can't drive. In every turn it's twice slower than me.

 

[objp]

That video was taken over two years ago. The tire model has changed a lot since then. Forza 2 is just mega grip all over the place and isn't really a challenge at all.

 

[dragonitti]

WHAT ON EARTH does that even prove? They can drive around a track hazard? I've been spun out multiple times by my own doing, and then blasted by the dumb AI while sitting in the middle of the track. Your point is mute.

BHAHAA Make me laugh some more.

 

[dragonitti]

GT4 physics - Mario Karts level

GT5 physics - second class compare to Forza 2 and Shift, but more interesting than Forza 3

You can't be serious....BHAHAHAA. Wow, you think Shift physics are more real than GT5...let alone FM2 or 3. Are you old enough to drive a vehicle yet?


Anyhow, my hunch is that the AI (like the visual damage on cars depending on if they are Standard, Premium, or Premium Race cars) has 3 different levels. Standard cars probably are the dumbest and do the things described. Premium cars seeing as how they are more subjected to greater visual damage, take care of their cars a little better. And the Premium Race cars are probably the smartest of them all. I've noticed some standard cars hooking to my back bumper and making me tail happy. However I have not experienced this from a Premium car. They try and avoid trading paint a little better.

 

[FeedMeRice]

To the people who insist the AI is just peachy... have you done the Daytona race in the Nascar series? Can you really say the AI is good with a straight face?

 

[CarreraGT]

It's called physics engine.

We have PC sims with outdated physics engines going back to the beginning of 2000-th, featuring fake imaginary cars and made by two people with 100$ budget. They are more realistic because they are on PC of course. Just because of that - this is obvious.

From other side we have some console sim, with real cars. Made by 100 people and 10-20 millions $ budget. I know the books which Turn 10 used, I know how many parameters and frames physics engine uses. I know they worked with Toyo tires engineers cause they weren't satisfied with this ancient paseca formula, which all PC sims happily use. I saw them driving real cars and testing them on stands, recording sound, etc.

But of course it's not realistic cause it consoles, fake cars from LFS which never ever existed are much more realistic! LOL

I'm all for a well supported debate, but you can't just turn up with unsupported cr#p like this. At least bring something credible to the table

 

[FlareKR]

It's simple. When you make an arcade racer, difficulty and the IQ of the AI go up, because you not using so much space on the physics engine. When you make a sim racer, the AI's IQ goes down because most of the work is being put into - take a guess - the physics of the sim.
Now hopefully, PD could *cough(probably-won't)cough* fix the AI issue. I really do agree with IGN's review, which I'm surprised they did it fair.
A 10/10 sim
a 5/10 game

 

[garbuckle]

OK, while I can see how stupid the AI is when it comes to pitting you, at least the laws of physics are adheared to. What gets me is this: You make a mistake and brake late, slamming into the rear of a car... but instead of them losing control and spinning, you're the one who suddenly spins. Why? That just goes beyond all laws of comprehension.

 

[Crowood]

You can't be serious....BHAHAHAA. Wow, you think Shift physics are more real than GT5...let alone FM2 or 3. Are you old enough to drive a vehicle yet?

What?! You telling me, it isn´t possible to drive a 1000hp Lambo on the nordschleife which feels like glued to the track? But in shift it was possible! *just joking*


Shift physics feel like crap, compared to GT5.

Jeah the AI......

Got my Bspec dude to level 20 yesterday, but i still don´t understand his driving. Sometimes he won´t overtake, in fact he is obvious faster than his AI pal. Then sometimes he finally overtakes in the final lap of a race or makes so fu**ing awesome overtake manuvers during other races that i really kept my breath and began cheering for him.

Sometimes he´s pure awesomeness, other times yeah, you know em.

 

[Topsu]

To the people who insist the AI is just peachy... have you done the Daytona race in the Nascar series? Can you really say the AI is good with a straight face?

It thought it was intense, tight and pretty good racing, but I guess I was wrong.

 

[Pierced Lead]

I'm all for a well supported debate, but you can't just turn up with unsupported cr#p like this. At least bring something credible to the table

The guy's trolling. Let him be.

If anything, him sticking to his belief, as if it's his religion, that whatever T10 showed us of them 'mastering' their physics with ZOMG over 9000 parameters and accurate Tire model just sells out his credibility.

otago, you weren't by any chance, part of the dev team of FM2 were you? And then for some reason you got kicked out during FM3 development I presume?

 

[fr33style]

OK, while I can see how stupid the AI is when it comes to pitting you, at least the laws of physics are adheared to. What gets me is this: You make a mistake and brake late, slamming into the rear of a car... but instead of them losing control and spinning, you're the one who suddenly spins. Why? That just goes beyond all laws of comprehension.

This happens to me more in special events than in A-Spec - especially with the Karts. But yeah, it defies the laws of physics.